MeetingLogs/UbuntuDev_2006-07-20

UbuntuDev_2006-07-20

05:03 fabbione 05:03 dholbach 05:03 dholbach 05:03 Kamion 05:03 ogra === magikfingerz 05:03 ogra 05:03 fabbione === 05:03 Mithrandir 05:03 dholbach 05:03 ogra === 05:04 Keybuk 05:04 Mithrandir === 05:04 Kamion 05:04 fschoep 05:04 Kamion 05:05 pitti === 05:06 Kamion 05:06 Kamion === 05:06 fschoep 05:06 Kamion 05:07 Kamion 05:07 BenC 05:07 kwwii 05:07 Kamion 05:07 kwwii 05:07 Kamion 05:08 Kamion 05:08 iwj 05:08 fabbione 05:08 Kamion 05:08 zul 05:08 iwj 05:09 Kamion 05:09 iwj 05:09 Kamion 05:09 fabbione 05:09 Kamion 05:09 Mithrandir 05:09 Mithrandir === 05:10 ogra 05:10 Mithrandir 05:10 Kamion 05:10 ogra === 05:10 Kamion 05:10 Mithrandir 05:10 ogra 05:10 Kamion 05:11 Kamion 05:11 Mithrandir 05:11 Mithrandir 05:11 Kamion 05:11 Kamion 05:11 Kamion 05:12 ogra 05:12 Kamion 05:12 Kamion 05:12 Kamion 05:12 Mithrandir 05:12 Mithrandir 05:12 dholbach 05:12 Mithrandir 05:12 Mithrandir 05:12 rodarvus 05:12 Kamion === 05:13 Kamion 05:13 Mithrandir 05:13 Kamion 05:13 Kamion === 05:13 Kamion 05:14 Mithrandir 05:14 Kamion 05:14 Kamion 05:14 seb128 05:14 Hobbsee 05:15 Kamion 05:15 seb128 05:15 seb128 05:15 fabbione 05:15 Kamion 05:15 05:15 ogra 05:15 seb128 05:16 pitti 05:16 Kamion 05:16 dholbach 05:16 seb128 05:16 Kamion 05:16 seb128 05:17 Kamion 05:17 Kamion 05:17 seb128 05:17 Keybuk 05:17 Kamion 05:17 pitti 05:18 seb128 05:18 iwj 05:18 Keybuk 05:18 Kamion 05:18 Keybuk 05:18 Keybuk 05:18 seb128 05:18 pitti 05:18 Kamion 05:18 iwj 05:18 iwj 05:18 Keybuk 05:19 Keybuk 05:19 Kamion 05:19 seb128 05:19 ogra 05:19 Keybuk 05:19 pitti 05:19 seb128 05:19 iwj 05:19 Kamion 05:19 iwj 05:20 ogra 05:20 Keybuk 05:20 Keybuk 05:20 seb128 05:20 Keybuk 05:20 Kamion 05:20 ogra 05:20 iwj 05:20 Riddell 05:20 pitti 05:20 iwj 05:20 iwj 05:21 ogra 05:21 seb128 05:21 ogra 05:21 Kamion 05:21 seb128 05:21 ogra 05:21 Kamion === 05:21 rodarvus 05:22 seb128 05:22 iwj 05:22 pitti 05:22 Keybuk 05:22 Kamion 05:22 Kamion 05:22 Keybuk 05:22 rodarvus 05:22 Riddell 05:22 rodarvus 05:22 Keybuk 05:22 Kamion 05:22 Keybuk 05:23 rodarvus 05:23 Kamion 05:23 Keybuk 05:23 rodarvus === 05:23 Mithrandir 05:23 rodarvus 05:23 Kamion 05:23 rodarvus 05:24 rodarvus 05:24 Kamion 05:24 Mithrandir 05:24 rodarvus 05:24 rodarvus 05:25 doko 05:25 rodarvus 05:25 Keybuk 05:25 Kamion 05:25 doko 05:25 Keybuk 05:25 Kamion 05:26 Kamion 05:26 Kamion 05:27 LaserJock 05:27 LaserJock 05:27 LaserJock 05:27 LaserJock 05:27 LaserJock 05:27 Riddell 05:27 ogra 05:27 Riddell 05:27 Kamion 05:28 Kamion 05:28 Kamion 05:28 doko 05:28 LaserJock 05:28 LaserJock 05:29 LaserJock 05:29 LaserJock 05:29 Kamion 05:30 LaserJock 05:30 ogra 05:30 mhz 05:30 mhz 05:30 Kamion 05:30 LaserJock 05:30 Kamion 05:31 LaserJock 05:31 Kamion 05:32 Kamion 05:32 LaserJock 05:32 LaserJock 05:33 Kamion === 05:33 Kamion 05:33 Kamion 05:33 ogra 05:33 ogra === 05:34 Kamion 05:34 ogra 05:34 pitti 05:34 Kamion 05:35 ogra 05:35 BenC 05:35 ogra === 05:35 Kamion 05:35 ogra 05:36 Kamion 05:36 ogra 05:36 Kamion 05:37 ogra 05:37 ogra 05:37 iwj 05:37 ogra 05:37 iwj 05:38 ogra 05:38 ogra 05:38 iwj 05:39 ogra 05:39 Kamion 05:39 iwj 05:39 ogra 05:39 Kamion 05:39 Kamion 05:40 ogra 05:40 ogra 05:40 ogra 05:40 iwj 05:40 Kamion 05:40 Kamion 05:40 ogra 05:40 Kamion 05:40 Kamion 05:41 doko 05:41 Kamion 05:41 doko 05:42 Mithrandir 05:42 doko 05:42 Kamion 05:42 Kamion 05:42 doko 05:42 Kamion === 05:43 Riddell 05:43 doko 05:44 Kamion 05:45 doko 05:45 Kamion 05:45 fabbione 05:45 Kamion === 05:45 Kamion 05:46 fabbione 05:46 Kamion 05:46 fabbione 05:46 Kamion 05:46 ogra 05:46 Kamion 05:47 Kamion === 05:47 ogra 05:47 iwj 05:47 Kamion 05:47 Kamion 05:47 Kamion 05:47 fabbione 05:47 pitti 05:47 Kamion 05:47 iwj 05:48 pitti 05:48 Kamion 05:48 pitti === 05:48 iwj 05:49 iwj 05:49 iwj 05:49 iwj 05:50 iwj 05:50 pitti 05:50 iwj 05:50 pitti 05:50 pitti 05:50 iwj 05:50 Kamion 05:51 Kamion 05:51 Riddell 05:51 Riddell 05:51 Kamion 05:51 Riddell 05:51 Riddell 05:52 Hobbsee 05:52 Kamion 05:52 Riddell 05:52 Kamion 05:52 Riddell 05:52 Riddell 05:52 dholbach 05:53 ogra 05:53 Kamion 05:53 Kamion 05:54 Kamion 05:54 Kamion 05:54 iwj === 05:54 iwj 05:54 iwj 05:55 Riddell 05:55 fabbione 05:55 BenC 05:55 Kamion 05:55 dholbach 05:55 Riddell 05:55 Kamion 05:55 zul 05:55 Kamion 05:56 iwj 05:56 zul 05:56 iwj 05:56 iwj 05:56 Kamion 05:56 iwj 05:56 iwj 05:56 Kamion 05:56 Kamion 05:57 Kamion 05:57 fschoep 05:57 fschoep 05:57 fschoep === 05:57 fschoep 05:58 fschoep 05:59 dholbach 05:59 Kamion 05:59 fschoep 05:59 Kamion 06:00 fschoep 06:00 Kamion 06:00 Kamion 06:00 fschoep 06:00 ogra 06:01 Kamion 06:01 fschoep === 06:01 ogra 06:01 fschoep 06:01 dholbach 06:02 Kamion 06:02 fschoep 06:02 Kamion 06:02 ogra 06:02 fabbione 06:02 fabbione 06:03 seb128 06:03 Kamion 06:03 ogra 06:03 fabbione 06:03 Kamion 06:03 Kamion 06:03 fabbione 06:04 fabbione 06:04 Kamion 06:04 fabbione 06:04 fabbione 06:05 fabbione 06:05 fabbione === 06:05 BenC === 06:05 Kamion 06:05 Kamion 06:05 Kamion 06:05 dholbach 06:05 dholbach 06:05 fabbione 06:06 dholbach 06:06 ogra 06:06 Kamion 06:06 dholbach 06:06 dholbach 06:06 ogra 06:06 dholbach 06:07 dholbach 06:07 seb128 06:07 Kamion 06:07 ogra 06:08 Kamion 06:08 Kamion 06:08 Kamion 06:08 Kamion 06:09 Kamion 06:09 ogra 06:09 Kamion 06:10 Mithrandir 06:10 ogra 06:10 Kamion 06:10 Kamion 06:10 dholbach 06:11 Kamion 06:11 Kamion 06:11 zul 06:11 Kamion 06:11 Kamion 06:11 zul 06:12 zul 06:12 Kamion 06:13 zul 06:13 Kamion 06:13 Kamion 06:13 zul 06:14 Kamion 06:14 Kamion 06:14 BenC 06:14 BenC 06:14 Kamion 06:15 BenC 06:15 Keybuk 06:15 Kamion === 06:15 Keybuk 06:16 Hobbsee 06:16 Kamion 06:16 Kamion 06:16 ogra 06:16 BenC 06:16 Kamion 06:16 Keybuk 06:16 Riddell 06:16 Kamion 06:16 Keybuk 06:16 kwwii === 06:17 Kamion 06:17 kwwii 06:17 Kamion 06:17 Kamion 06:17 kwwii 06:17 ogra 06:18 ogra === 06:18 Kamion 06:18 Keybuk 06:18 Riddell 06:19 Riddell 06:19 Kamion 06:19 Riddell 06:19 Kamion 06:19 Riddell 06:19 fabbione 06:20 Kamion 06:20 fschoep 06:20 Mithrandir 06:20 iwj 06:20 fabbione 06:20 Keybuk 06:20 Mithrandir 06:20 Riddell 06:20 Keybuk 06:20 Keybuk 06:20 Riddell 06:20 Kamion === 06:20 iwj 06:21 Kamion 06:21 Hobbsee 06:21 pitti 06:21 fschoep 06:21 Riddell 06:21 iwj 06:21 fabbione 06:21 fschoep 06:21 ogra 06:21 Kamion 06:21 fabbione 06:21 seb128 06:21 ogra 06:21 fabbione 06:22 fabbione 06:22 pitti 06:22 iwj 06:22 Kamion 06:22 fabbione 06:22 fschoep 06:22 Kamion 06:22 Kamion 06:22 Keybuk 06:22 iwj 06:22 Mithrandir 06:23 Kamion 06:23 Keybuk 06:23 ogra 06:23 Keybuk 06:23 pitti 06:23 fabbione 06:23 Keybuk 06:23 Kamion 06:23 iwj 06:23 Keybuk 06:23 Kamion 06:23 iwj 06:24 kwwii 06:24 Kamion 06:24 iwj 06:24 iwj === 06:24 Kamion 06:24 iwj 06:24 Riddell 06:25 Riddell 06:25 fschoep 06:25 zul 06:25 pitti 06:25 fabbione 06:25 iwj 06:25 pitti 06:25 dholbach === 06:25 fabbione 06:25 Kamion === 06:25 Kamion

Meeting class="anchor" id="line-3-1">

   05:02 Kamion      I'll chair - just finding the list of people to ping elsewhere Kamion: in the wiki? mvo has his last holiday today dunno about benc fabbione: yes, but need to compare with /names here dholbach, his last *ever* ? [n=magikfin@201.138.173.73] has joined #ubuntu-meeting dholbach, so we'll never have a broken apt again ? Kamion: it has both actually pitti is terribly lagged, apologies in advance if I slack with answering to someone ogra: yeah, no more slacking for mvo. ogra: we'll see :) soviet [i=www-data@208.195.214.137] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Mithrandir: says the guy who delayed a milestone release due to "too much wine" Keybuk: it was delayed already. :-P Laser_away [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-meeting is heno expected to be away at the moment? Yes, he is on holiday. ah, thanks darn, I try connecting to another freenode server, brb pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting ok, we should get started has everyone read the wiki page? not everyone has filled in their information on it BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Kamion: I added myself even though I wasn't on there, is that OK? fschoep: yes, that's fine - we should probably add you to the template in fact BenC: could you quickly dump your info into the wiki page, for the record? yeah my name is not on that list kwwii: same as fschoep, if you want to dump your done/todo in there for the record, that would be good will do ok, in the meantime, we'll go from the bottom up I suggest we try not doing the paste thing this week, in the hope that people have read the wiki page I think next week we should have an announcement in advance, giving a deadline for completing the report, and encouraging the addition of extra people, etc.  I'll write one up. pitti is having network problems iwj: in fact there was an announcement on warthogs@, but that's too private; should be with the meeting announcement on -devel-announce Kamion: ditto Kamion: Oh, warthogs again.  It seems I never read warthogs on Wednesdays :-). anyway, we should still go through everyone to make sure people have a chance to be quizzed and to say anything they have to say Right. Mithrandir: you're first; anything of particular note this week? sfllaw: any specific reason for keep moving these announcements in non public places? or anything you want to grab people for next week? I'd like to apologise for the week-long freeze.  I thought we were more ready than we were. hopefully, it won't happen again. pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting it was necessary apart from that, I don't have anything in particular. I think we'll be better off next time. Most of it was because the installer just wasn't there yet. we now have a stable base :) tritium [n=tritium@ubuntu/member/tritium] has joined #ubuntu-meeting ogra: not for much longer; feature development awaits ... yeah, and that was a bad call on my part.  I should have waited a bit.  But, done is done. Kamion, sure, but you have something to compare to ... to find regressions/errors next milestone ... Mithrandir: looks like you have a fair bit of coordination with Adam next week, but that's nothing new I guess Mithrandir: also, congratulations on Knot-1 Kamion: same goes to you, for fixing ubiquity and d-i. also, thanks. I expect we'll need a bit more testing of derivatives next time round the first milestone is generally quite rough and ready Mithrandir: we should decide on Knot-2 timescales edubuntu is fine though I suggest leaving a clear two weeks from now just because otherwise the release team get nothing else done does that sound reasonable? I'll be gone on vacation + wedding + honeymoon from next friday, JFYI. and won't be back until the sprint in London wow uh, not London Wiesbaden :) ah, noted; infinity/mdz/I will deal with releases, then pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting Mithrandir: please dump current sane-installer-keyboard status on me when you leave Kamion: willdo ok, thank you sfllaw: anything from you this week? pitti waves, sorry (if you're here ...) he's not, I think. doesn't look like it seb128: anything from you? nop looks to be not here.   [01:14]  [Whois]  sfllaw has been idle for 10 hours, 41 minutes and 20 seconds. seb128: how is GNOME 2.15 looking upstream? pretty good, already GNOME 2.15.90 next week (2.16 beta 1) so they start freeze, etc Kamion: sorry pitti can't get here on freenode properly. I can forward any request to/from him feels very early, but of course our cycle is very late this time highvoltage Mithrandir: congrats fabbione, he's here right, we only packaged one devel version this cycle fabbione, Kamion: I'm here now, though lagged so at 2.15.90, GNOME will be in API/ABI freeze, is that right? so from now it gets better and better ;) Kamion: API, ABI, UI frozen handy for our feature development; I see a few shiny new features in GTK and components list too all right Keybuk: yeah, GTK 2.10 is great, especially the new printing framework (but only epiphany uses it atm I think) Kamion: not much to report, Debian (for the most part) seem happy with the new PTS mails it was little things like linkbutton that I noticed seb128: will the other apps be converted to use the new printing api, too? yeah, lot of new cool things too (linkbutton, recently used, etc) Keybuk: Do we have an official contact from Debian yet ? I'll be doing the UUID stuff and teardown now Knot Freeze is over Keybuk: we need to get together early next week or tomorrow or thereabouts to make sure the partman changes for libata are right iwj: in which sense? Kamion: yup, agree pitti: not much this cycle, they have the same issue as we have ... cycles are short and manpower is limited seb128: how urgently do you need the new hal-cvs-head-on-crack-plus-policy-kit-on-top-of-it? I forgot to note that in my to-do I remember mdz complaining that there wasn't anyone to have an official `Debian' opinion about this kind of thing. I mean, about cooperation with Ubuntu, PTS mails, etc. iwj: there are vague movements with the DCT and Utnubu buxy has been my contact for the PTS stuff does anyone in Debian really want to place themselves in front of the firing squad on that, though? :-) pitti: no idea, apparently gnome-power-manager requires it to sleep and suspend and nothing else really requires it this cycle ... pitti, as soon as we can ... else we'll miss many g-p-m bugs and I've found madduck to be useful to "find the right person" and me a general middle-man iwj: hard to get such an opinion, short of doing an official vote... pitti: we might want look are rolling back gnome-power-manager code if that's an issue Kamion: Well, I've got a thick skin and would volunteer except for err slight conflict of interest :-). iwj: yes, I think most of us here are similarly problematic pitti: DPL should delegate.  But a `no' from Keybuk seems to be the answer. seb128, pitti, that whould be possible, but a lot of work, since exactly the code parts we need are vanished (or split up) aye, was just going to say, we could contact the DPL or DPL-of-Vice and ask for a delegate but then they'd probably ask for one from us in return ogra: we can stay to 2.14 for edgy ... and I'd be scared it'd be me Keybuk: well volunteered seb128, yup, thats what i thought Keybuk: I'd volunteer too if you don't want to. pitti, seb128: having a decision on HAL would be handy for me working on kubuntu-power-management ogra: TBH I'd rather let the dust settle down upstream and let them do a release first, but I will at least dive into it and look at the new stuff But I suspect you might do a better job. We could discuss it informally with Steve Mac if we make it to the Debian UK BBQ ? pitti, then lets keep 2.14, i'll look into regressions ogra, pitti: in any case we should open discussion with upstream on the topic and the concerns we have seb128, yeah, to avoid such stuff in the future at least ok, lots of conversations going on at once here, perhaps the out-of-sequence ones could move to #ubuntu-devel ogra: will you contact upstream to let him know that PolicyKit is an issue? seb128, yup rodarvus: anything from you? ogra keeps quiet now until its his turn not much, besides what can be read "between the lines" on my status report ogra: that's going to be an issue for GNOME anyway, 2.16 can't depends on policykit if that's CVS code lots of conversations> It's good to get people talking to each other but yes, perhaps elsewhere while the meeting goes on ? Riddell: right, but I absolutely do not want to say yes to it until I understand fully what they are doing rodarvus: I'd like ssh access to the OLPC hardware at some point to do a general health check (really ugly) Hack to automagically check updates to packages in Debian and Ubuntu, to easy the task of comparing changes in the future (do we have some "official" tool to achieve this?) rodarvus: isn't that very closely related to what MOM does? ie. a look around the hardware for anything that might be a problem for us, or any tricks we can do Keybuk: sure, I'll try to handle that this week or next pitti: I don't care either way, just so I know what I have to develop against Kamion: I suppose so, yes rodarvus: echo subscribe debian PACKAGE | mom@ubuntu.com if it doesn't quite do the right job, I'd suggest talking to Keybuk for what you need rodarvus: ^ once elmo turns it on I just made a quick hack to be able to check this "on my own", after the usual mom runs end rodarvus: do you expect any changes required outside the X subsystem for X 7.1? though that might not be what you want, talk to me! I will, thanks for the heads up! :) os390 [i=os390@cm-83-97-140-106.telecable.es] has joined #ubuntu-meeting rodarvus: are you trying to check if Debian and we are in sync or whether we're in sync with upstream? Kamion: no, not really rodarvus: there's also some noise about escalated support on certain X bugs; I'll chat with you about that afterwards if mdz hasn't done so already Mithrandir: both things, actually Kamion: he hasn't, not yet the xresprobe blank-on-install bug and an i810 bug rodarvus: for the upstream bit, there's watch files. Mithrandir: indeed (but it was just four lines on the script to check upstream too :) ) rodarvus: we had a spec to follow upstream versions, have to ask lifeless when it gets deployed. tracking debian versions will be done when debian is imported into launchpad (according to cprov) though it would be nice to have watch files for all X packages (which currently don't have one) doko: we have our own implementation of debian tracking in MoM doko: that's not likely in the edgy cycle watch file checking however was delayed probably easier to tweak that than rely on mythical launchpad features (Debian imported into Launchpad) ok, time's marching on LaserJock would like to deliver a docteam update and has to go soon From the Documentation Team: Edgy to this point - Mostly wiki work. Category Documentation wiki pages were moved from wiki.u.c to help.u.c/community (BetterWikiDocs spec) so that all help related documentation is at one URL. Lots of structural and cleanup work is left to do. This Week - Tomorrow we are having an organizational meeting to chart Edgy docs. Looks like NEW docs might be "Switching from Windows" and "Security Guide". Continue shaping up Packaging  Guide and Server Guide. Merging information from the Official Ubuntu Book into the Desktop Guides. Done LaserJock: what should we start packaging snapshots of the docs? i'd like to note that i find the wiki forwarding pretty painful s/what/when/ LaserJock: IIRC doko's been working on some kind of "differences from Debian packaging to Ubuntu packaging" document; have you been coordinating on that? ogra: yes, it's been jarring on me as well DebuggingProcedures being on help.u.c/community/ was particularly weird LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingChangesSpec Riddell: I haven't really seen much new stuff yet, I'd give use a few weeks, but you might want to ask mdke doko: ok cool, I'll have to talk to you about that and see what we can put in the Packaging Guide Kamion: yes, it was an automatic move (anything with Category Documentation) so some stuff needs to be moved back ogra: just need to update your links ;-) LaserJock: does it continue to be automatic? that is will new Category Documentation pages be moved? Kamion: I don't think so, we are creating new wiki pages on help.u.c/community LaserJock, well, sure ... but that wont make the forwarding faster for people who bookmarked the pages ... ogra: indesd +1 ;) eed LaserJock: I'd suggest an announcement on -devel-announce about it if there wasn't already; I only noticed when it happened we will be checking wiki.u.c. periodicly for moving although it's possible I missed the announcement Kamion: it was announced but the actual move was delayed (I think because of preperationf for Paris, etc.) ah perhaps a reminder would be appropriate then anyway, if you are having problem with the wiki move or want specifc pages moved please let the doc team know we will try our best to make things as smooth as possible ok, thanks LaserJock BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting ogra: your turn ogra: what's up with student-control-panel-completion? well, nothing beyond what i wrote on the wiki i notified mdz that i'D need time to fix it up ... ziza [n=aziz@chello084112072063.6.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #ubuntu-meeting hmm, I see it went a bit back and forth ... and then knot 1 came ... i hope to find time this weekend to finish the last bit hi BenC it seems to be in review state at the moment; you know to chase up reviewers for that I assume? I doubt most of them are watching for new review specs now sadly the feature is to important to just strke it pitti: hey Kamion, yes i know ... ogra wonders why its in review ... should be drafting up to you to maintain that yup ok, I'd really like to see that approved by next week i'll care for it ogra: "common buildsystem" => common between Edubuntu and LTSP upstream? common in the meaning of: we dont use debian/*.install files but automake and the like so other distros can adopt it ogra: Just for the avoidance of any doubt, you don't think yet that you've addressed my comments about "Execution of programs in the users session(s)" ? iwj, nope, thats why i was surprised that its in review, i cat remember changing the status I notice that my brief comment isn't in the wiki page.  Perhaps I should paste that email exchange between you and me and mdz into the wiki ? *cant iwj, mdz made his comments to the spec via mail and i'll adress them ... OK.  It's just that it's easy to lose things when the reviewer/approver doesn't have the mail in front of them. iwj, i was planning to ask mdz to review/approve it ... yes, I'd recommend putting that in the wiki just so it doesn't get lost OK. he should know what its all about :) even if one has been previously involved, it's possible to forget, and it's useful for informing others right, time I think well, that would make the spec pretty big ... i'll point it our if i ask him for review *out ogra: put it in a sub-page with a link to it ? ogra: no harm in that, if the issues have been unaddressed once the issues are addressed, it should be factored into the document ok ok, i'll add it ... mvo is on holiday; I seem to have been uploading apt for him ;-) doko: anything from you? Kamion, nothing else as in the report your report reminds me, promotions/demotions gnat-4.1 in NEW and promotion of python2.5 to main would be nice doko: OOo to dapper-proposed-updates or dapper-updates, btw? Kamion: yes, removals of binary packages would be nice as well. anastacia output is enough of a nightmare right now that we are not really processing promotions/demotions automatically, so if something's at all urgent, bug somebody in ubuntu-archive doko: likewise, been gradually working my way through, but if there's anything that's urgent, notify us Mithrandir: dapper-proposed-updates first, dapper-updates is too risky. Need to prepare three or four packages some removals have been done mdz [n=mdz@56.Red-81-33-244.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting hi mdz Kamion: it would be nice to get a status of state of python-packaging, not that urgent doko: promoting python2.5 to main implies some degree of commitment to it for edgy; I assume that the outcome of "Decide if it is a viable option to support python2.5" from the python2.5 spec is therefore "yes"? Kamion: yes, but we can drop it again, followed by "binary-NMU's". with regard to dapper updates, I think we're still reasonably on-target for an early-August dapper point release, although I need to poke the Soyuz team about status of some of the things we were planning to rely on there Kamion: early August? doko: right, hence "some degree of" rather than "absolute" fabbione sighs fabbione: ? Kamion: if that's the target we need to find somebody to complete the sparc changes for dapper point release. fabbione: if that has to be for the next point release, that's life Kamion: meh ok given long-term support, I expect there'll be plenty of room for more than ne Kamion, fabbione will likely be in hospital getting his baby ... one ogra: understood, but we can't leave it much later because then we'll be into edgy release BenC volunteers yup We're getting seriously behind here ... and it is necessary to get something done before shipit for dapper stops iwj's right pitti: anything from you? Kamion: let's take this after the meeting apart from what's written in the wiki, I just want to mention that I'm looking for a nice name for the crash report daemon; Mithrandir proposed 'apport', and I really like it; ping me if you have a terrific idea :) fabbione: yep pitti: Debian did a 1.0.x ff upload but there doesn't seem to be a coordinated 1.0.8 orig.tar.gz anywhere. my only blocker so far is the kernel crashdump helper, I'm going to discuss this with BenC, but not in the meeting pitti: any idea of edgy langpacks? iwj: oh, wow imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-meeting They've just done a 1.0.4.orig.tar.gz-based security update. I was following the list but it was hard to piece the bits together and there was no message of the form "here is the thing which is finally done" except for this URL: http://people.debian.org/~eric/mozilla-firefox/ (Note bad practice of a signed .dsc not uploaded ...) I haven't done anything else about this. Kamion: I asked carlos several times, he said they are close now But I thought I should pass the `info' on. iwj: I thought they actually used 1.0.7 the last time and just called it 1.0.4 to not break reverse dependencies? iwj: thank you Something like that, yes. ok, thank you pitti Riddell: anything from you? avahi-daemon now in kubuntu-desktop bunch of stuff will shortly need moved to main for gpgsm what's gpgsm for? Kamion: s/mime support in kmail also need UVF exception for kopete (yay, more bugfixes for kopete) is the kubuntu zeroconf stuff following the enormous thread on ubuntu-devel? Kamion: no, it's been planned for a while and specced at the summit, I've not seen the thread on ubuntu-devel we should avoid divergent security policies between Ubuntu and Kubuntu if we can I'll take a look at it Kamion: it's disabled by default, else pitti would kill me hihihi Riddell, prepare to spend the afternoon with it if you didnt see the thread yet :P Riddell: some concerns raised in the thread about the ineffectiveness of offering users a choice between keep-my-machine-secure and do-what-I-want-to-do anyway, that's for the mailing list thankks Riddell iwj: ? Nothing else from me. Whatsisname [n=whatsisn@rrcs-67-52-37-209.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting But note that I changed the wiki entry quite recently: Chuck will be reporting about Xen. (Chuck = zul) is he bountied for it? Riddell: no he is masochist last i checked :P there's a bounty on him, not for him :) iwj: with regard to dpkg Breaks deployment, are you aware that Debian's base freeze for etch is RSN? you're so mean :) ok, so we should still be polite so it'll need to squeeze in before thhat fabbione: yep thats me zul: we'll grab you at the end, if you're around for that long Kamion: Err, no, I wasn't. im not going anywyere What's the date for that ? It would be really nice if we could get it into Debian's dpkg this time round. iwj: IIRC 8 August but see debian-devel-announce I'll go check.  Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have to spend a bit of weekend thinking about deployment plan for Debian too. sympathy (in every sense) on the heat heno is on holiday fschoep: anything from you? Besides the Wiki, I've got two things: I'd want some input on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/WideThemeSwitcher For your information, here's a summary of what we've been doing lately: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/EdgyProposals/Summary_18JULY2006 isheep [i=isheep@cc1027458-a.groni1.gr.home.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting The spec is on Launchpad but I don't own it and Etienne is off for holiday so that takes some more time to get in line I'm afraid. That's all for now. shiny shiny fschoep: if you need stuff tweaked on Launchpad I believe that anyone in ubuntu-drivers can probably force it OK, that's probably the best thing to do now. Once I've got that in line, who should I contact about the contents? It's GNOME related. fschoep: dapper-backport> see my comment above about dapper point release timing, if you weren't aware Kamion: you sent me a Wiki link to the schedule last time. right, I forget sometimes :) #ubuntu-desktop is probably a reasonable fallback ... Kamion: is there a list of artwork things you want to get in there or should we make one? fschoep, hmm, you are not on -devel ... whats the difference between Lsplash and the gnome splash screen in that spec ? fschoep: I expect to be largely release-monkey plus installer fixes; I doubt I will have time to look into artwork in detail, so if you could prepare something fairly conservative then I'm happy to look over it There is none, it's just that I've been calling it login-splash and suddenly everyone calls it lsplash. dholbach wanted to call the package session-splash :-p ah, ok ... was a bit confusing :) Kamion: will create a list. more confusion :) ok, thanks fschoep, we need to move on; please somebody desktopish coordinate with fschoep for uploads and stuff Sorry, I only recently became accustomed with the "Lsplash" term. fabbione: anything from you? lets just keep gnome splash :P  users know the term Kamion: what's on the wiki, we just got rid of all non-upstream cluster suite patches. Kamion: otherwise it's ok... ogra: no no, or people will assume than dholbach and I are responsive for bugs about it :p given your imminent awayness, that is definitely good news ;) seb128, i didnt say "GTK boog screen" :P Kamion: i am worried about GFS at the moment. there is a regression and seems to be "our" issue fabbione: is there likely to be any cluster work that needs to be done after you disappear? perhaps you could braindump on somebody Kamion: yes, the spec and fix what's there Kamion: anyone in particular you would like me to use as ratlab? ... I'm not sure anyone else has the experience/knowledge to take it from zero (needs to have at least 3 machines) (same arch is better to start with) any volunteer? or is this going to be like me asking for X help in London? fabbione watches everybody running away screaming I can help, but I don't have the "same arch" ogra doesnt volunteers -> #ubuntu-devel thanks fabbione dholbach: ? two things: it'd have been nice if there had been more people at the HUG DAY yesterday - i know it was short notice, but it was a 2-3 man show. I think this needs more attention, as everybody complains about too many bugs, but not everybody's willing to help people get involved in bug triage. the other thing is: the motu team is looking for people willing to give a short session on packaging related topics (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Sc hool/Requests) - it'd be nice if you could think about it. thanks Kamion (apart from what I have on the wiki.) dholbach, re: hug day ... many people were very busy with CD tests ... I have to admit I didn't see the announcement until after the event - must get caught up on mail ogra: i know there's always a lot to do :) dholbach, i just mean the date was a bit unfortunate and note: i'm not complaining in capital letters :) that's all :) ogra: I'm sure not everybody was busy with CD testing for the whole day MOTU tutor volunteers -> #ubuntu-motu seb128, surely not (i was though, and in the spare time i was in -bugs, but still) thanks dholbach my turn further to the wiki, I've started making seed/cdimage changes in preparation for revive-tasksel so if you see weird seed commits from me, that's why derivative seed merging should get easier rather than harder (especially now that server -> server-ship), but feel free to ask me about stuff well, as long as Mithrandir doesnt plan a knot2 this week .... :) I think two weeks' time will be pretty sane ogra: no worries. :) that will pretty much coincide with when we need to be doing dapper point release testing, mind you I will try to get ubiquity into dapper-updates in the next week or so, so that we can start doing image testing early nice nothing else from me zul: ? this week - kernel security updates, xen kernel image, xen userspace fixes, zul: how long do you expect the xen-edgy work to take? noting that it's a blocker for some other things, so for planning next  - apply kernel-package xen infrastructure,xen-kernel testing, xen testing  release kernel-security updates Kamion: i expect another of couple of days, the xen kernel image is done but it doesnt boot, userspace is done and works, good answer. :-) right now the xen kernel doesnt use kernel-package so that might be a bit of breakage there, right now its failing at the initramfs level ok, well sounds better than I expected, so hopefully automated-testing-deployment won't be stalled too much longer thanks zul and i was going to upload to universe if it worked zul: yep, that's reasonable to start with BenC: anything from you? not really just chugging along BenC: since you're on vacation next week, you+me+Keybuk to sort out the UUID stuff tomorrow would probably be best sounds like a plan yup, I'm good with that with any luck timezones will be favourable so we can present you with a list of bugs when you wake up ;-) ompaul [n=ompaul@ubuntu/member/ompaul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting it's not so much timezones as heat at the moment that's the problem icecubes... Keybuk: early mornings are good for avoiding that (never thought I'd hear myself say that) late nights are ! hehe infinity's not here, I forget whether he's on holiday or not Kamion: *nods* I've found that an early morning and late evening is the best time Scotland's all cold today kwwii: anything you want to add? Kamion: I think he's still in bed with soyuzitis pretty much what I put in the wiki...kinda wanted to know the process for putting stuff on the DIYMarketing page mdz_ [n=mdz@219.Red-81-35-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting I must say it's the first I've heard of that page :p kwwii: contact previous editors, and/or silbs? probably silbs for preference yeah, I'll send an email and figure it out Kamion, its made by silbs and jdub iirc in hoary/breezy time somewhere raphink [n=raphink@ubuntu/member/raphink] has joined #ubuntu-meeting right, and I think that's it is anybody else planning to attend LugRadio Live this weekend? Keybuk: me and heno I think not me this year, I'm afraid and sabdfl too did the no-paste-just-the-wiki thing work this time? I'm not sure, it seemed a bit forced I didn't like it i don't like how the meeting was I thought it was worth a try Riddell: heno is indeed going I didn't like it either. I think it slowed things down, in some weird counterintuitive way. worth a try yes it worked better with the pastes sure, worth a try, but it didn't work out well. so scrap wiki page and bring back pastes? but if we're going to do the paste, I don't see the point in trying to get the wiki ready days in advance ... I think it should be enough that at the meeting start, it's up to date the wiki page is nice as a replacement for JaneW's SpreadSheetOfDoom true Keybuk: yes, I agree, it's good to have for the record but ... pitti thinks we shuold just paste here and forget about the wiki It does mean you can read ahead on the wiki page. pitti: the wiki is useful as a permanent record, rather than IRC logs pitti: better for people reading the logs of the meeting later, too... doing things twice and trying to keep the wiki up to date didn't work so well for me TBH Kamion: indeed I fear lots of conflicts if we all add our bits in the 2 minutes before the meeting conflicts> That's very true. i think we can just paste here Aren't there edit locks on the Wiki? Riddell, well iwj and me usually have them there :) there is no need to keep it up to date really; you can always add stuff next week and update the wiki within 1 hour of the meeting I liked the previous meeting way better too ++ so we keep both irc meeting as before and records on the wiki Kamion: but we already have activity mails (or, rather, we should have) I find the wiki very useful but we should relax and say to edit it an hour or two in advance. *cough* but it needs to be mandatory to fill up the wiki within the hour One problem this time was we strayed a bit off the main path a bit too long I think. pitti: actually they're not really the same pitti: my activity reports are (when I send them) a lot more verbose, and stuff is often duplicated across days really?  I just write my paste by reading my activity reports for the past week Keybuk: Yes, but it's quite condensed. I liked the "fill out the wiki 24 hours a day in advance", I must admit. what iwj said Mithrandir: I really don't ... it makes the wiki text almost meaningless Mithrandir, that akes then one day outdated "here's where I was up to over 24 hours ago" Keybuk: you too? :) Keybuk: ++ generally my TODO is only 24-hours in advance anyway iwj: I think the reason it slowed things down was that there wasn't so clear a boundary between people's turns Kamion: Yes. so by the time we get to the meeting, I've actually done everything in my todo list anyway and we basically need to go through everyone anyway Perhaps paste a  =========== FSmith =========== ? ok...time for me to cook dinner for the family...guess we are done here? would work but doesn't seem a huge win over paste-report I'm tempted to write a turn-taking robot which hassles people when we go slow, too :-). Kamion: Right. j_ack [n=rudi@p508DB6FE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting right, I think we're done, unless there are any other announcements But it would shut up the people who think the wiki is a duplication :-). any volunteers to fix ruby on powerpc? fabbione: you were previous uploader kwwii, dholbach: meet in ubuntu-devel in thirty minutes / one hour? heh.. hm, somehow the pasting feels more like an RL meeting Riddell: i was forced to do the merge. kthxbye pitti: I think that might be part of it, yes. thanks everyone fschoep: fine - i'll do a break now myself ogra runs hearing the word ruby Riddell: there is also davis.ubuntu.com that you can use Riddell: I'll have a look and see what I can manage vincent_ [n=vincent@abo-71-198-68.ang.modulonet.fr] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] thanks all, adjourned

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UbuntuDev_2006-07-20