Desktop

Dev Week -- Desktop Packaging Session -- S├ębastien Bacher -- Wed, Feb 20

(02:02:20 PM) seb128: hello everybody
(02:02:49 PM) Picklesworth: Hm... Hello :)
(02:02:50 PM) seb128: I'm Sebastien Bacher and I'm working in the Ubuntu Desktop Team
(02:03:32 PM) seb128: I'll start by presenting the team, what we do and how you can contribute
(02:03:41 PM) seb128: and then we can do questions and answers
(02:03:46 PM) seb128:  
(02:04:03 PM) seb128: First, where you can find desktop teams members or read about what the team is doing:
(02:04:07 PM) seb128: - #ubuntu-desktop on freenode
(02:04:24 PM) seb128: that's the chan where we hang and discuss work we are doing etc
(02:04:32 PM) seb128: - ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
(02:04:56 PM) seb128: IRC is good for quick question, and discussion but the mailing list is also a good place to discuss changes, bugs, et
(02:04:59 PM) seb128: etc
(02:05:09 PM) seb128: especially than everybody doesn't use IRC
(02:05:31 PM) seb128: - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
(02:05:40 PM) seb128: that's the wiki section concerning the team
(02:06:02 PM) seb128: we have details about the team goals and the work we are doing there
(02:06:40 PM) seb128: we use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO for keeping track of what is being currectly working and what we would like to get done for hardy, etc
(02:06:55 PM) seb128: - the desktop-bugs team on launchpad for bug fixing and triaging
(02:07:08 PM) seb128: the team has a mailing list which receives all the desktop bugs
(02:08:11 PM) seb128: if you want to look at the bugs which would be nice to fix for hardy those are assigned to the team and milestone ubuntu-8.04
(02:08:33 PM) dustinlange left the room.
(02:08:39 PM) seb128: if you have issue you think should be adressed for the coming lts feel free to discuss with us to get those milestoned
(02:08:48 PM) seb128: - ubuntu-desktop team on launchpad
(02:08:55 PM) seb128: that team is not really used yet
(02:09:22 PM) seb128: but we plan to move packaging to bzr (we did experiment but there it still some work to get that as smooth as apt-get update, change, upload)
(02:09:41 PM) seb128: and the team members will have access to the packaging
(02:09:52 PM) seb128: so the membership is limited to known contributors
(02:09:52 PM) seb128:  
(02:10:01 PM) seb128: So what is our mission?
(02:10:15 PM) seb128: basically we try to provide the best desktop experience
(02:10:19 PM) seb128: for that we:
(02:10:31 PM) seb128: - keep the desktop components uptodate
(02:10:45 PM) seb128: the ubuntu team is pretty small and most of the code comes from upstream
(02:11:09 PM) seb128: we try to make sure their code is available in the current versions and as easy to use that it can be
(02:11:22 PM) seb128: - work on the usability of our existing desktop and on developing innovating new interface concepts
(02:12:15 PM) seb128: we have team members working on that
(02:12:37 PM) seb128: their goal is basically to determine what changes could improve the user desktop experience
(02:12:54 PM) seb128: and to discuss, design and implement those changes
(02:13:26 PM) seb128: the team was quite small until recently and we didn't do a lot of those
(02:13:36 PM) seb128: but that's changing ;-)
(02:14:05 PM) seb128: - triage and fix desktops bug
(02:14:08 PM) seb128: we get a lot of bugs
(02:14:19 PM) seb128: some are user question and redirected to the answer tracker
(02:14:42 PM) seb128: some are upstream issues and we try to get all the useful details and send them to the upstream bug tracker
(02:14:50 PM) seb128: some are ubuntu bugs and we try to fix those
(02:15:02 PM) seb128: we also try to help upstream fixing issues when possible
(02:15:12 PM) seb128:  
(02:15:25 PM) seb128: how we are organized?
(02:16:03 PM) seb128: we use IRC usually for discussion
(02:16:31 PM) seb128: that's because most of the people and that's a quick way
(02:17:15 PM) seb128: but we also use the mail list and encourage people to use it too when possible, because there is lot of people not using IRC and giving some activity to the list is good to get new people to participate
(02:17:48 PM) seb128: anybody can help on bug triage, just go on launchpad and look at the desktop bugs if you want
(02:18:37 PM) seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/ has the list of bugs
(02:18:46 PM) seb128: there is a lot of those listed there
(02:19:00 PM) seb128: usually those which need triaging are those in the New state
(02:19:10 PM) seb128: you might prefer the https://bugs.launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs view
(02:19:26 PM) seb128: that one list stats by packages
(02:19:44 PM) seb128: if you have any question feel free to ask on #ubuntu-bugs or #ubuntu-desktop
(02:20:05 PM) seb128: contributors are also welcome to help updating packages 
(02:20:15 PM) seb128: we use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/TODO for that
(02:20:26 PM) seb128: we claim packages update we are working on there
(02:20:48 PM) seb128: the page is being redesigned right now so there is a list without a lot of things listed
(02:21:22 PM) seb128: but the goal is to let people know which packages are being actively maintained and which ones are not
(02:21:48 PM) seb128: if you have special interest in a package and want to be the contact for it let we know ;-)
(02:21:52 PM) seb128:  
(02:22:05 PM) seb128: we are also trying to move the packaging to bzr
(02:22:15 PM) seb128: there is still some usability issue there
(02:22:31 PM) seb128: but eventually we will manage to do that soon and that will make contributors and reviewer job easier
(02:22:35 PM) seb128:  
(02:22:44 PM) seb128: you are also welcome to help fixing issues
(02:23:25 PM) seb128: if you submit a patch on a bug you can subscribe the ubuntu-main-sponsors team (or universe if the package is there)
(02:23:39 PM) seb128: we will try to do our best to review the contribution quickly ;-)
(02:24:15 PM) seb128: and again feel free to ask on IRC, the list or launchpad if you have any question on a bug or if you are trying to work on something and are not sure and what to do
(02:24:50 PM) seb128:  
(02:25:04 PM) seb128: if you have idea on what changes we could do to improve the desktop experience
(02:25:13 PM) seb128: either small things we can change for hardy
(02:25:21 PM) seb128: or new inovation for the next cycles
(02:25:33 PM) seb128: you can also join IRC or the list and discuss those
(02:25:41 PM) seb128: we always welcome ideas and discussions ;-)
(02:25:43 PM) seb128:  
(02:26:03 PM) seb128: that's about it for what the team is doing
(02:26:16 PM) seb128: so if you have questions now feel free to ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
(02:26:32 PM) seb128: I'll pick questions there and reply on this chan
(02:27:28 PM) seb128: hum
(02:27:35 PM) seb128: no question then?
(02:28:04 PM) seb128: <InsClusoe> QUESTION: Will we have a tablet edition like Windows XP does?
(02:28:20 PM) seb128: I don't think there is anything table specific planned no
(02:28:28 PM) seb128: the mobile team is working on a mobile edition
(02:28:47 PM) seb128: I don't know if that's far from what is required on a tablet device though
(02:29:05 PM) seb128: might be a good project for a team of people interested in tablets though ;-)
(02:29:05 PM) InsClusoe: Hmm... ok.
(02:29:12 PM) InsClusoe: :-)
(02:29:53 PM) seb128: I know we have applications like xournal which let you take notes on a tablet
(02:30:01 PM) seb128: and I've seen people using Ubuntu on a tablet
(02:30:11 PM) seb128: not sure if there is a real need for a specific edition though ;-)
(02:30:12 PM) seb128:  
(02:30:18 PM) seb128: next? ;-)
(02:30:31 PM) seb128: <awalton__> QUESTION: is there a policy for correct units of measure for Ubuntu applications? specifically KiB vs KB and the like?
(02:30:38 PM) seb128: hum hum
(02:30:41 PM) seb128: hum hum hum
(02:30:47 PM) seb128: not really ;-)
(02:30:58 PM) seb128: we basically use whatever GNOME is using right now
(02:31:16 PM) awalton__: I guess more specifically, should there be?
(02:31:33 PM) seb128: that's a controversial topic I think
(02:31:34 PM) awalton__: or is that better a discussion for the list/later?
(02:31:52 PM) seb128: there is quite some people who are reluctant to use the new units
(02:32:13 PM) seb128: I think there was a discussion on #ubuntu-devel some time ago
(02:32:18 PM) seb128: you can look in the archives
(02:32:26 PM) seb128: and it has been discussed upstream on the gnome-vfs bugzilla
(02:32:26 PM) awalton__: will do. thank you.
(02:32:40 PM) seb128: but none reached a consensus I think
(02:32:42 PM) seb128:  
(02:32:50 PM) seb128: <mruiz> QUESTION: How is the relationship with Debian desktop team? How is the procedure to update packages: wait for Debian (and request a sync) or just do it?
(02:33:02 PM) seb128: that's a good question ;-)
(02:33:06 PM) mruiz: :-)
(02:33:18 PM) seb128: we try to be in sync with Debian when possible
(02:33:31 PM) seb128: we didn't do an optimal job there until now I think
(02:33:47 PM) seb128: but we have quite some people in the ubuntu team which are also in debian pkg-gnome
(02:34:03 PM) seb128: and some active new people who are trying to get packages in sync whenever it's possible
(02:34:28 PM) seb128: lool, pochu and slomo are good example and have been doing great work there ;-)
(02:34:46 PM) seb128: we try now to keep the platform packages in sync
(02:35:20 PM) seb128: desktop applications are not that easy because we often have changes (like launchpad integration) and debian doesn't has the ressources to deal with unstable series packaging
(02:35:57 PM) seb128: mruiz: does that reply to the question?
(02:36:12 PM) seb128: we welcome people who try to work with debian to lower the delta ;-)
(02:36:30 PM) seb128:  
(02:36:33 PM) seb128: <steffen_> QUESTION: Will there be a no services-on-on-default install-option ;-) for Ubuntu-lite in the future. kind like openbsd does? Will there be "hardened" kernels?
(02:36:45 PM) mruiz: seb128, thanks ;-)
(02:36:54 PM) seb128: no idea about that, that's not really an ubuntu-desktop thing
(02:37:15 PM) seb128: that looks rather an installer option or a derivative thing
(02:37:39 PM) seb128: I don't know about any work being done in this direction
(02:37:48 PM) seb128: but we have this "no open port" policy by default
(02:37:58 PM) seb128: which is slightly modified for avahi nowadays
(02:38:26 PM) seb128: there is an ubuntu-hardened team though, you might want to bring the subject there
(02:38:27 PM) seb128:  
(02:38:30 PM) seb128: next?
(02:38:48 PM) seb128: <mruiz> QUESTION: Does Desktop team have a mentoring plan to encourage new members (packagers)?
(02:39:00 PM) seb128: nothing desktop specific no
(02:39:15 PM) seb128: people usually starts in the MOTU land
(02:39:38 PM) seb128: we welcome people starting by contributing on desktop packages and are happy to reply to their questions too
(02:39:57 PM) seb128: we have sponsor teams and there is a mentoring project too
(02:40:37 PM) seb128: but for most of the packaging there is nothing desktop specific and no need to have a special effort there I think
(02:40:46 PM) seb128:  
(02:40:48 PM) seb128: next?
(02:42:58 PM) seb128: no other question?
(02:45:30 PM) seb128: ok, so it seems there is no other questions
(02:45:35 PM) seb128: thank you everybody
(02:45:40 PM) mruiz: thanks seb128
(02:45:46 PM) daishujin: Thank you!
(02:45:49 PM) awalton__: thank you seb128.
(02:46:08 PM) seb128: anybody interested in joining the team maybe? ;-)
(02:46:16 PM) ***ember hugs seb128
(02:46:32 PM) awalton__: +1 from me seb.
(02:46:52 PM) seb128: ah, another question
(02:46:54 PM) seb128: <InsClusoe> QUESTION: How is usability measured? Like for example, take the shutdown dialog. When you decide that the user is getting swamped with too many confusing choices... maybe all he needs is 3 or 4 simple buttons most of the time?
(02:47:29 PM) seb128: InsClusoe: usually we discuss changes at UDS, write specs, get those approved and implement the changes
(02:47:49 PM) seb128: the process is open and you are welcome to participate in discussions or comment on the spec, etc
(02:48:14 PM) seb128: speaking about this dialog, that is being redesigned
(02:49:32 PM) seb128: the spec is listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs
(02:49:48 PM) InsClusoe: seb128: Great.. Thanks. Can't wait to see the new dialog. Apologies. I didn't notice that you had closed the session and popped my question.
(02:49:50 PM) seb128: that's likely something that will be worked next cycle
(02:50:16 PM) seb128: InsClusoe: I didn't really close, we still have some minutes, we just ran out of questions ;-)
(02:50:38 PM) seb128:  
(02:50:39 PM) seb128: <snewland> QUESTION to you actively solicit user input for these types of questions?
(02:51:10 PM) seb128: having users opinion is always something useful ;-)
(02:51:15 PM) seb128: the distribution is for users
(02:51:30 PM) seb128: but better to have constructive comments
(02:51:47 PM) seb128: one way users comment about those specification is usually by adding comments on the wiki pages
(02:52:03 PM) snewland: but do you ACTIVELY seek it or just hope it happens?
(02:52:05 PM) seb128: you can also write to the list if you have a specific concern
(02:52:46 PM) seb128: the process is open, we mail about specifications, and let know that comments are welcome
(02:52:55 PM) seb128: we do go pinging people to have their opinion though
(02:53:11 PM) seb128: *don't*
(02:53:30 PM) seb128: do you think we could do things better in this perspective?
(02:53:38 PM) seb128: *comments are welcome* ;-)
(02:53:49 PM) seb128:  
(02:53:52 PM) seb128: <daishujin> QUESTION: Along the same lines, do you guys do any usability studies?
(02:53:55 PM) seb128:  
(02:54:14 PM) seb128: as said the team was pretty small until now and we didn't really have ressources for that
(02:54:29 PM) seb128: now we have people working on usability in the team
(02:54:47 PM) daishujin: so there are plans for this the?
(02:55:00 PM) daishujin: s/the/then/
(02:55:10 PM) seb128: yes
(02:55:19 PM) seb128: in the limit of what we can do with the ressources we have
(02:56:45 PM) seb128: ok
(02:56:47 PM) hltpyldr: thank you.
(02:56:53 PM) seb128: the session slot is over
(02:57:08 PM) seb128: thanks everybody

MeetingLogs/devweek0802/Desktop (last edited 2008-08-06 16:40:41 by localhost)