Ubuntu Wiki

Dev Week -- Pushing out GNOME releases to millions of users -- seb128 -- Wed, Jan 21

UTC -4 (EST)

(11:01:16 AM) seb128: ok, good ;-)
(11:01:32 AM) seb128: good morning, afternoon, evening to everybody!
(11:02:01 AM) seb128: I'll do a presentation of what the ubuntu desktop team is doing first
(11:02:11 AM) seb128: and then we can do questions-answers
(11:02:19 AM) seb128: so
(11:02:22 AM) seb128: The Ubuntu Desktop Team is the team working on most of the Ubuntu GNOME desktop applications.
(11:02:56 AM) seb128: The team is a mix of people working full time for canonical and rocking contributors
(11:03:07 AM) seb128: we have some contributors around I see ;-)
(11:03:29 AM) seb128: hey crevette, pochu (and probably others) ;-)
(11:03:37 AM) seb128: * Where we are
(11:03:42 AM) seb128: - #ubuntu-desktop on irc.ubuntu.com
(11:03:52 AM) seb128: - ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com
(11:03:59 AM) seb128: - launchpad: desktop-bugs and ubuntu-desktop teams
(11:04:11 AM) seb128: * What we do
(11:04:22 AM) seb128: - work on the desktop packages, the rough list is on https://launchpad.net/~desktop-bugs/+packagebugs
(11:04:43 AM) seb128: - update the desktop packages when new versions are available
(11:04:51 AM) seb128: - work on the corresponding bugs lists, triage the bugs and work with upstream to get those resolved
(11:04:58 AM) seb128: * How we work:
(11:05:19 AM) seb128: - most of the packages are coming from the debian pkg-gnome team
(11:05:30 AM) seb128: - we try to keep those packages in sync as much as possible and send their our changes to them
(11:05:37 AM) seb128: - we do package unstable version earlier and carry ubuntu specific changes though
(11:06:02 AM) seb128: - the packaging is mostly done using cdbs
(11:06:14 AM) seb128: - we mostly updates packages when GNOME roll new tarballs and backport upstream fixes
(11:06:42 AM) seb128:  
(11:06:51 AM) seb128: * How we do updates:
(11:07:34 AM) seb128: - we current have somebody looking at the new upstream tarballs and noting what upgrade we need to do in ubuntu
(11:07:50 AM) seb128: - tasks are usually splitted on IRC (ie, upgrade are assigned to people there)
(11:08:07 AM) seb128: - people are free to claim tarballs they want to work on
(11:08:35 AM) seb128: - contributors use bugs on launchpad to get their work reviewed
(11:08:49 AM) seb128: usually it's easy to get review since the team is quite active
(11:08:58 AM) seb128: and you often find people to help on IRC
(11:09:45 AM) seb128:  
(11:09:58 AM) seb128: the current workflow has some limitation and we will try to improve it
(11:10:12 AM) seb128: some packages are moving to bzr for the packaging work and we will probably try to standardize that
(11:10:40 AM) seb128: didrocks started some documentation on the topic and you can find details on the ubuntu desktop wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam
(11:11:14 AM) seb128: we also want a system which allow to set a todolist and let people claim work directly there rather than using IRC
(11:11:47 AM) seb128: some people started to work on a website listing all the versions available in ubuntu, debian and upstream for the team packages
(11:12:15 AM) seb128: we will probably try to continue this way and have a website which allow people to claim work they are doing
(11:12:44 AM) seb128: on a technical side upgrades are usually standard version updates
(11:13:07 AM) seb128: some are easy enough for beginner so if you want to get started that's no issue
(11:13:28 AM) seb128: some other are tricker (soname changes, change to build system, new binaries added)
(11:13:39 AM) seb128: the things we usually check for updates
(11:13:48 AM) seb128: - the configure requirement and if they changed
(11:14:06 AM) seb128: if they changed the (build-)depends need to be updated to reflect that
(11:14:15 AM) seb128: - that the update builds and work correctly
(11:14:23 AM) seb128: - the bugs closed in the upgrade
(11:15:03 AM) seb128: library are also checked for abi changes (in which case the soname should be updated if the new abi is not compatible, or the shlibs updated if there is new functions but the abi is still compatible)
(11:15:11 AM) seb128:  
(11:15:13 AM) seb128: ok
(11:15:26 AM) seb128: that was it for the summary of what the team is doing on how
(11:15:42 AM) seb128: we also discuss desktop changes, new components to install by default or not, configuration changes, etc
(11:15:57 AM) seb128:  
(11:16:06 AM) seb128: we can do questions and answers now ;-)
(11:16:33 AM) DasEi: can't join #ubuntu-classroom-chat
(11:16:38 AM) seb128: why?
(11:16:49 AM) DasEi: good question
(11:16:50 AM) pochu: QUESTION: Off-topic: Can someone work remotely for Canonical?
(11:17:06 AM) pochu: DasEi: /msg me and I'll try to help you
(11:17:09 AM) seb128: pochu: can you write the nickname of whoever asked too maybe?
(11:17:16 AM) pochu: sure, sorry
(11:17:25 AM) pochu: creek23> QUESTION: Off-topic: Can someone work remotely for Canonical? :-/
(11:17:41 AM) seb128: creek23: most of the people working on Ubuntu for canonical are working remotely
(11:17:52 AM) seb128: so yes it's possible
(11:18:05 AM) seb128: the job offers are on the website and that's specified in the descriptions
(11:18:06 AM) seb128:  
(11:18:09 AM) seb128: next
(11:18:12 AM) pochu: fta> QUESTION: seb128: you said "somebody looking at the new upstream tarballs", d'oh! manually? how often? why somebody and not some script?
(11:19:04 AM) seb128: fta: GNOME has a mailing list which gets mails about all the tarballs uploaded so that's easy to keep track ... why not a script because nobody wrote one yet ... interested? ;-)
(11:19:23 AM) fta: probably
(11:19:26 AM) seb128: in fact somebody started working on a website listing ubuntu, debian and upstream version as said before
(11:19:32 AM) seb128: would be good to continue this work
(11:19:37 AM) DasEi: QUESTION:seb128:  I'm not ready for doing development, but could help translating to german, where to go ?
(11:19:38 AM) seb128: that would show what is to update
(11:19:58 AM) pochu: DasEi: please write questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
(11:20:00 AM) seb128: DasEi: questions on #ubuntu-classroom-chat
(11:20:06 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT
(11:20:11 AM) pochu: directhex> QUESTION: how often does the desktop team reassess which app is used to accomplish a given task (e.g. pidgin vs empathy), and what are the criteria for a change?
(11:20:19 AM) fta: seb128, ok (a pointer would be nice). Thanks
(11:21:05 AM) seb128: fta: there is a discussion about it on the ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com started some months ago if you want to check the archives
(11:21:38 AM) seb128: directhex: good question, that's not a periodic tasks, we do look at suggestions though so that's whenever somebody do one
(11:21:50 AM) seb128: you can do a suggestion on the mailing list or during the weekly meetings
(11:22:13 AM) seb128: the team has weekly IRC meeting on #ubuntu-desktop, they are at 16:30utc on tuesday
(11:22:27 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT
(11:22:30 AM) pochu: hggdh> QUESTION: we are based on Debian. But every so often a Debian package is found to be older than a new requirement. What is the procedure?
(11:23:11 AM) pochu: fta: btw, the page is this: http://norsetto.890m.com/desktop_packages.php
(11:23:11 AM) seb128: hggdh: we try to get work done there so we don't block on Debian
(11:23:29 AM) seb128: pinging the debian maintainer before starting on an update can be a good idea
(11:23:37 AM) seb128: usually we don't block on a reply as said though
(11:23:46 AM) seb128: sending the debdiff back to the debian pts is good practice too
(11:23:58 AM) seb128: or at least a bug there request for the update and pointing to the ubuntu work
(11:24:15 AM) seb128: if they do the update and we can sync we lower the ubuntu-debian delta which means less work for everybody
(11:24:18 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT
(11:24:21 AM) pochu: Arc> QUESTION: whats the future for the default XMPP client look like?
(11:25:27 AM) seb128: this cycle is focussed on stabilization since we have quite some users annoying but how much rewrittes or GNOME changes have been breaking in previous cycle so we will not likely change that, it should still be pidgin
(11:25:38 AM) seb128: we will probably look again at empathy next cycle
(11:25:44 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT
(11:25:47 AM) pochu: DasEi> QUESTION:seb128:  I'm not ready for doing development, but could help translating to german, where to go ?
(11:26:01 AM) seb128: (urg should read what I type
(11:26:19 AM) seb128: annoying but how -> annoyed by how
(11:26:39 AM) seb128: yes, I suggest contacting the german translation team for that though
(11:26:50 AM) seb128: ubuntu-l10n-de on launchpad, they probably have a mailing list too
(11:27:08 AM) seb128: translations are made on launchpad or directly upstream, check with your locale team to know the details
(11:27:11 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT
(11:27:13 AM) pochu: creek23> QUESTION: Who makes the Ubuntu theme? Wallpaper? etc?
(11:27:28 AM) seb128: the ubuntu artwork team
(11:27:52 AM) seb128: they have their own channel and I don't know how they decide on changes exactly
(11:27:54 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT
(11:29:15 AM) pochu: I think we are running out of questions
(11:29:26 AM) pochu: creek23> QUESTION: Lots of opening from China, Taiwan? Why no Philippines?
(11:29:32 AM) pochu: (relating to job offers)
(11:30:18 AM) seb128: pochu: yeah, replying to those on the other channel ;-)
(11:30:22 AM) pochu: fta> QUESTION: what about daily builds, or builds for each commit (i refer to the last UDS opening from Mark)
(11:30:57 AM) fta: (i meant "each upstream commit")
(11:31:26 AM) seb128: fta: that's out of the scope of the current #ubuntu-desktop ressources to do that I think but it's possible that some other team is wanting to put ressources on that, I don't know about it though, that's being discussed for some years but nobody got to do it yet
(11:31:44 AM) fta: fair enough :)
(11:31:52 AM) seb128: that would be a good thing, a bit tricky to get right though
(11:32:07 AM) pochu: creek23> QUESTION: Why is "Windows key" (from the keyboard) not supported as it does in KDE?
(11:32:43 AM) seb128: creek23: that's a bug, what you expect to do? open the menu? or use it in shortcut
(11:32:53 AM) seb128: there is a gnome-control-center about it not working in shortcuts
(11:33:00 AM) seb128: +bug
(11:33:03 AM) seb128: NEXT
(11:33:12 AM) pochu: pochu> QUESTION: there has been a opening position for a desktop developer in terms of packaging for some time. Did you find anyone yet?
(11:33:42 AM) seb128: pochu: it would not still be open if we did ;-)
(11:33:58 AM) creek23: (hmm, so it is a bug.)
(11:34:02 AM) seb128: we are still interviewing candidates
(11:34:09 AM) pochu: if you keep it open for a few more time, I may apply :)
(11:34:34 AM) seb128: we didn't had some many matches for the job until now and some of those who were good decided to take a job somewhere else
(11:35:01 AM) pochu: thanks
(11:35:03 AM) pochu: Arc> QUESTION: is there any specific programming tasks open that would help gnome integration with Ubuntu?
(11:35:07 AM) seb128: pochu: you have the good profile so feel free to apply when you are done with universtity ;-)
(11:35:12 AM) pochu: :)
(11:35:34 AM) seb128: hum, good question
(11:35:43 AM) seb128: what sort of integration you are looking at exactly?
(11:35:53 AM) seb128: the next canonical dx team is going to work in those area
(11:36:03 AM) seb128: otherwise they is a lot of open bugs and request on launchpad
(11:36:50 AM) seb128: there is no specific list though
(11:37:00 AM) seb128: NEXT
(11:37:02 AM) pochu: creek23> QUESTION: How many exactly are the developers in the Desktop Team?
(11:37:40 AM) seb128: hum, good question
(11:38:08 AM) seb128: the ubuntu desktop team has probably around 7-8 regular contributors
(11:38:31 AM) seb128: and around the same number of people hanging around and doing some work every now and then
(11:38:47 AM) creek23: whoah! just 8?!?... o_O
(11:39:10 AM) seb128: so let's 7-8 people doing active work (some of them being full time canonical employees) and double the number if you count people helping on bug triage, etc
(11:39:33 AM) seb128: bug triage being active work too ;-)
(11:39:40 AM) seb128: NEXT
(11:39:43 AM) pochu: pochu> QUESTION: regarding the move to bzr for packaging, one of my reservations is that there will be a branch per package instead of one repository for all the desktop packages (as with pkg-gnome). Do you think this will be an advantage or a drawback?
(11:40:26 AM) seb128: that's something we already discussed, I don't think that makes a real different
(11:40:48 AM) seb128: there is some wrappers around to bzr get everything for a team
(11:40:55 AM) seb128: which would give you a full checkout
(11:41:04 AM) seb128: and that let you the option to just get and work on one component
(11:41:04 AM) pochu: ah, makes sense
(11:41:21 AM) seb128: NEXT
(11:41:25 AM) pochu: creek23> QUESTION: Ubuntu Netbook Remix out, is there a chance for Ubuntu Mobile Remix with GNOME in it?
(11:41:45 AM) seb128: I don't know enough about remix to reply to that I think
(11:41:51 AM) seb128: they do use GNOME applications now?
(11:42:14 AM) seb128: the purpose of the remix edition is that GNOME doesn't really fit on those screen
(11:42:36 AM) seb128: you need different interfaces on different devices
(11:42:42 AM) creek23: oh, I thought GNOME was used in it.
(11:42:45 AM) pochu: I think they modified some apps (e.g. liferea) for them
(11:42:50 AM) seb128: ie, the user experience is different on a notebook or tablet than on a desktop
(11:42:56 AM) directhex: the netbook remix uses gnome, albeit with some hacks here & there to fill more of the screen. mobile ed is something else
(11:42:59 AM) seb128: not the same input device, screen space, etc
(11:43:24 AM) seb128: NEXT?
(11:43:27 AM) pochu: SUGGESTION: it would attract more programmers to help with Ubuntu desktop if there was a "wishlist" for applets or specific added features, vs mixing them with "bugs"
(11:43:33 AM) pochu: (not really a question (: )
(11:43:58 AM) seb128: that's a good remark though
(11:44:15 AM) seb128: the wiki has a todo and we try to tag some bugs
(11:44:34 AM) seb128: we could do a better job to make lists, it's not easy to classify by tasks and how easy they are though
(11:45:19 AM) seb128: NEXT
(11:45:34 AM) pochu: looks like there are no more questions
(11:45:43 AM) seb128: the todolist thing
(11:46:17 AM) seb128: you can send emails to the list if you have suggestions
(11:46:24 AM) seb128: or look at specs for the current cycle
(11:46:33 AM) seb128: those are usually tasks the team is working on
(11:46:59 AM) N0xTrUm: ji
(11:47:04 AM) N0xTrUm: hi*
(11:47:49 AM) seb128: no other question?
(11:48:00 AM) seb128: let me summarize what we need help on maybe then ;-)
(11:48:16 AM) seb128: - doing regular desktop updates and package new components
(11:48:37 AM) seb128: - triage bugs, send those upstream when they are upstream issue and get them resolved
(11:50:15 AM) dholbach: <creek23> what does he mean by "triage"?
(11:50:16 AM) seb128: - organize the workflow: documentation, create activity on the mailing list to encourage people to join, switch to bzr, tools to automate verifications done on every updates for example, work on the website to summarize work to get done, etc
(11:50:30 AM) seb128: ah
(11:50:48 AM) seb128: ok, so we push software to users, ie you
(11:51:15 AM) seb128: the users happily update to new version and notice that things stopped working the way they did
(11:51:21 AM) seb128: or they have request to had a feature
(11:51:26 AM) seb128: they open bugs on launchpad
(11:51:42 AM) seb128: our work is to review those bugs to decide on what is important to fix and what can wait
(11:51:52 AM) seb128: we don't have the resources to work on everything
(11:52:21 AM) seb128: and lot of those issues are in code ubuntu is not writing
(11:52:49 AM) seb128: ie if you get a bug in gedit it's likely in the GNOME gedit code and it should be sent to bugzilla.gnome.org so the people who are writting the code know about the issue
(11:53:04 AM) pochu: (there are a few questions now)
(11:53:09 AM) seb128: NEXT ;-)
(11:53:13 AM) pochu: ia> QUESTION: if you've heard about gnome-macmenu-panel, then could you tell, please, does gnome or ubuntu-desktop team plan include it "right-in-box", so user right after installation could  select, which type of menu he would like to use - global(one, at top panel, for all windows) or not(traditional usage, when each window has its own menu bar)
(11:53:47 AM) seb128: no, first time I read about this name
(11:54:04 AM) seb128: feel free to discuss it on #ubuntu-desktop or mail the ubuntu-desktop mailing list to suggest that we look at it
(11:54:29 AM) seb128: next
(11:54:31 AM) pochu: Ape3000> QUESTION: So how can we help in triaging in practice?
(11:54:50 AM) seb128: dholbach: do you have a pointer on how to start on bug triage? ;-)
(11:55:00 AM) dholbach: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs
(11:55:15 AM) seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Bugs
(11:55:16 AM) seb128: too
(11:55:18 AM) dholbach: ... and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToTriage too
(11:55:20 AM) pochu: perhaps https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Triaging
(11:55:21 AM) dholbach: :-)
(11:55:46 AM) pochu: next?
(11:55:56 AM) seb128: basically pick an application you use and know and look on launchpad to bugs which are not Confirmed or Triaged
(11:56:03 AM) seb128: ask for details if required, etc
(11:56:11 AM) seb128: #ubuntu-bugs is a good place to start
(11:56:15 AM) seb128: pochu: NEXT ;-)
(11:56:18 AM) pochu: DasEi> QUESTION/idea :though not hard for me to figure out, I think it'll be nice for new users to see the files (and maybe harddrives/dev's) on their desks, as they are used from other
(11:57:11 AM) seb128: we decided back in warty to have a clean desktop because that's usually where people have the files they use, their background image they like to look at, etc
(11:57:28 AM) seb128: there is enough way to access those drivers, the computer location, the places menu, etc
(11:57:51 AM) seb128: I don't think we want to change the default setting but that's just a gconf setting to switch if you want to do that
(11:57:53 AM) seb128: NEXT
(11:58:00 AM) pochu: that was the last question :)
(11:58:37 AM) seb128: ok, thanks everybody!
(11:58:43 AM) creek23: thanks seb!
(11:58:44 AM) DasEi: seb128: in ibex first even files created on desk didn't show up, is what I meant
(11:58:45 AM) pochu: thanks seb128!
(11:58:52 AM) ***creek23 claps! :D
(11:58:56 AM) rugby471: thanks!!!
(11:58:59 AM) dholbach: thanks a lot seb128
(11:59:01 AM) DasEi: nice
(11:59:07 AM) dinxter: cheers
(11:59:08 AM) porthose: applause
(11:59:34 AM) enaut: thanks
(11:59:44 AM) Arc: cheers
(11:59:57 AM) dholbach: excellent - I hope you guys are going to help out seb128 in #ubuntu-desktop soon! :)