Ubuntu Wiki

Dev Week -- Getting Started -- English -- Mon, Jan 19

[15:59] <creek23> 10
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[15:59] <rooivalk> 5
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[15:59] <Jarlen> spam!spam!
[16:00] <creek23> woohoo!
[16:00] <dholbach> HELLO MY FRIENDS!
[16:00] <rooivalk> gooooooo
[16:00] <holloway> Hellooouh!
[16:00] <MrKanister> ^^__^^
[16:00] <Don_S> Hullo!
[16:00] <creek23> mabuhay!
[16:00] <kusa> heloooooo
[16:00] <dholbach> Who's here for Ubuntu Developer Week and who's excited as I am?
[16:00] <kusa> hellooo*
[16:00] <nxvl> o/
[16:00] <holloway> \o/
[16:00] <istaz> hello
[16:00] <creek23> i am!!!
[16:00] <sam[cOe]> hi
[16:00]  * Don_S looks around.
[16:00] <arch> o/
[16:00] <arch> ghgh
[16:00] <afflux> *waves
[16:00] <Tm_T> dholbach: no, more than you
[16:00] <dholbach> It's hardly possible, but who's MORE excited than I am?
[16:00] <Flimm> Everybody join #ubuntu-classroom-chat !
[16:00] <pedro_> yay!
[16:00] <creek23> i am!
[16:00] <rooivalk> i am toooo
[16:01] <dholbach> Welcome to another KICK ASS Ubuntu Developer Week!
[16:01] <dholbach> Just a quick introduction before we kick off this fantastic week:
[16:01] <dholbach> The schedule is up here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek and logs will be made available after the sessions, the links are already there.
[16:02] <dholbach> Most sessions will be here, in #ubuntu-classroom
[16:02] <dholbach> and questions should be asked in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[16:02] <dholbach> please prefix them with QUESTION: so people see them easier
[16:02] <dholbach> ie:   QUESTION: When is Jaunty coming out?
[16:02] <dholbach> This first session is going to be special
[16:03] <dholbach> It's "Getting Started" and we're going to have it in multiple languages simultaneously!
[16:03] <dholbach> (big applause here!)
[16:03]  * creek23 claps!
[16:03]  * holloway claps
[16:03]  * Aderyn claps
[16:03]  * Israphel claps
[16:03]  * istaz claps
[16:03] <dholbach> james_w will be leading Getting Started in English
[16:03]  * ripps claps
[16:03] <arch> claps!
[16:03]  * EnCuKou claps!
[16:03]  * kusa claps!
[16:03] <dholbach> Mirv and Tm_T will be leading the Finnish session in #ubuntu-fi-devel
[16:03] <ikis> claps
[16:04]  * Flimm claps
[16:04] <dholbach> huats and gpocentek will be leading the French session in #ubuntu-fr-classroom
[16:04]  * Tm_T bows
[16:04] <shankhs> QUESTION: I know C/C++ how can I start developing in ubuntu?
[16:04] <dholbach> gaspa and quadrispro will be leading the Italian session in #ubuntu-classroom-it
[16:04] <gpocentek> (+Lutin on the french chan ;) )
[16:05] <james_w> and didrocks?
[16:05] <dholbach> gpocentek: excellent, merci beaucoup
[16:05] <dholbach> james_w: he's ill :-/
[16:05] <james_w> lot's of french :-)
[16:05] <huats> james_w: is ill...
[16:05] <james_w> aww, get well soon didrocks
[16:05] <dholbach> nxvl and pochu will be leading the Spanish session in #ubuntu-classroom-es
[16:05] <dholbach> and I'll be doing the German session in #ubuntu-classroom-de
[16:05] <dholbach> thanks a lot dear presenters, you ROCK
[16:05] <james_w> this is going to be so cool
[16:06] <nxvl> thank you for having the idea!
[16:06] <dholbach> I hope you're going to have a fantastic time, I'm VERY excited!
[16:06]  * dholbach hugs y'all
[16:06]  * james_w hugs dholbach 
[16:06]  * holloway hugs dholbach back
[16:06] <Aderyn> group hug!
[16:06] <dholbach> james_w: the floor is yours :)
[16:06]  * nxvl HUGS dholbach back
[16:06] <dholbach> yoohooo! :)
[16:06] <james_w> thanks dholbach
[16:06]  * Tm_T runs away from dholbach 
[16:06] <Koon> yaaaay
[16:06] <james_w> good luck to my fellow presenters :-)
[16:07] <Mirv> thanks :)
[16:07] <kusa> thanks :)
[16:07] <james_w> right, who's going to be following the English session?
[16:08] <Aderyn> i will. :)
[16:08]  * Don_S raises his hand.
[16:08]  * Jarlen raises his hand
[16:08]  * legate raises his hand
[16:08]  * toobuntu_ raises his hand
[16:08] <pdragon> i'm lurking
[16:08]  * Arc raises
[16:08]  * Israphel idem
[16:08] <shankhs> I thought there will be over 1000 participants
[16:08] <theseas> me too!
[16:08] <EnCuKou> I'm lurking as well.
[16:08] <arrowes> me too
[16:08] <james_w> cool, glad to hear it
[16:09] <ikis> me
[16:09]  * Flimm raises his hand
[16:09] <james_w> in this session I'm going to be talking about Ubuntu Development in general terms, showing you round some areas of it, and giving you pointers to get more information
[16:09] <Israphel> I gonna follow the session while I watch disney channel
[16:09] <Kmos> james_w: let's start it :)
[16:10]  * creek23 raises hands.
[16:10] <shankhs> ya
[16:10] <james_w> then in the next session the unstoppable dholbach is going to talk about how to get started doing packaging, which is one of the main activities in Ubuntu developement
[16:10] <james_w> so if you want to know the mechanics of packaging stick around for that session
[16:11] <james_w> so, we'll get started with a look at the structure of Ubuntu development
[16:11] <james_w> the wiki is the place to look for this
[16:11] <james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment
[16:11] <james_w> that's the overview page
[16:11] <james_w> that is full of links for places to get more information
[16:12] <creek23> my first time here: are all the events gonna happen here in the IRC? how about visualizations?
[16:12] <james_w> so, an Ubuntu developer is anyone that works on making Ubuntu  rock technically
[16:12] <james_w> creek23: in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
[16:13] <james_w> as I said the main activity is based around packaging, and as such we deem "Ubuntu Developers" to be those that have "upload rights" to the archive, but there are many many more people that contribute to Ubuntu in really important ways without having upload rights
[16:14] <james_w> for those that have upload rights, there are two groups "Core-dev" and "MOTU"
[16:14] <james_w> the distinction is on how many packages they get to upload, with core-dev being allowed to upload anything, and MOTU only allowed to upload packages in universe
[16:14] <james_w> (and multiverse)
[16:15] <james_w> MOTU is the team to get involved with if you want to become an ace packager
[16:15] <james_w> it's a really friendly, helpful community, and there is loads to do
[16:16] <james_w> <Aderyn> QUESTION: MOTU is short for what?
[16:16] <james_w> MOTU stands for "Masters of the Universe"
[16:16] <james_w> it's a pun on the fact that we maintain the  universe component
[16:16] <james_w> <shankhs> QUESTION: how to get upload rights
[16:16] <james_w> good question
[16:17] <james_w> to become a MOTU you spend some time contributing through the "sponsorship process"
[16:17] <james_w> <shankhs> QUESTION: how to get upload rights
[16:18] <james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[16:18] <james_w> that's what I meant :-)
[16:18] <james_w> this is where you prepare an update to a package in the archives and request that it be uploaded
[16:18] <james_w> someone with upload rights will then review your change and work with you to make it work
[16:19] <james_w> once they are happy with it they will upload it for you, but it will be under your name, they just sign it for you so that they archive software will accept it
[16:20] <james_w> after some time, when you have contributed significantly through this process you apply for upload rights
[16:20] <james_w> and the people that sponsored you will advocate your application, saying that they think you are ready to upload by yourself
[16:21] <james_w> the MOTU Council then vote on your application and if they vote in favour of you you are given upload rights
[16:21] <james_w> the aim is that it's fairly easy to get your work sponsored, so that you can contribute while not having upload rights, and then once you are trusted we can remove the review step and let you upload without that wait
[16:22] <james_w> and of course sponsor the next batch of developers
[16:22] <james_w> <shankhs> QUESTION: I read that to become MOTU you need a mentor how to get one?
[16:22] <james_w> you can have a mentor if you like, but it is not requires
[16:22] <james_w> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring for more information on mentoring
[16:23] <widox> alid login request > java.lang.NullPointerException
[16:23] <widox> 11:20:08.104 - [ WARNING ] > SysHandler -> Bad room id. Action: roundTrip >> java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "null"
[16:23] <james_w> the time from application to getting a mentor is just a couple of days at the moment I believe
[16:23] <GSMX> date -u
[16:24] <james_w> but it's preferred if you can get started reading the documentation and tackling bugs on your own, and apply for a mentor for advice and guidance
[16:24] <james_w> mentors are busy with their own development work, so they won't be able to teach you everything
[16:24] <james_w> <ikis> QUESTION:What technical skills should have an Ubuntu developer? Is there any material?
[16:25] <james_w> there aren't specific technical skills required
[16:25] <james_w> knowing a bit of programming (in any language) helps
[16:25] <james_w> if you are good at the command line, and know a bit of scripting or something that is usually good enough
[16:26] <james_w> the main thing you need is skill at problem solving. Much of what we do boils down to that.
[16:26] <james_w> there are obviously some things that you need specific skills before, but you can either skip those tasks, or learn the skills as needed
=== soulnet is now known as derosa
[16:27] <james_w> <maxb> QUESTION: How does the Ubuntu Universe Contributors status fit in to this system? What is different between a member of this team and anyone else following the SponsorshipProcess?
[16:27] <james_w> thanks, I forgot to mention this
[16:28] <jepes> hello
[16:28] <cineris> Hey!
[16:28] <james_w> the "Ubuntu Universe Contributors" status is the same as Ubuntu member status
[16:28] <jepes> hi
[16:28] <mib_zvl2d8tt> hi
[16:28] <james_w> jepes: #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
[16:28] <elipticalosma> ola
[16:29] <james_w> the MOTU council is able to grant Ubuntu membership based on contribution to Ubuntu development
[16:29] <james_w> it doesn't gain you anything special from a developer perspective
[16:29] <james_w> it's just a recognition of your contribution to development and ubuntu member status
[16:30] <james_w> (and so @ubuntu.com email, IRC cloak, planet ubuntu etc)
[16:30] <elipticalosma> hiper cool
=== Kelemen3 is now known as Kelemen
[16:31] <james_w> now, I want to talk a bit about the development cycle and related things
[16:31] <creek23> elipticalosma: #ubuntu-classroom-chat please
[16:31] <samp> ola hay alguien español
[16:32] <cineris> hoyga?
[16:32] <james_w> as Xazax stated most packages in Ubuntu come from Debian
[16:32] <Nosgosh> te comprendo
[16:33] <james_w> so we start the cycle by pulling in all the latest stuff from Debian
[16:33] <james_w> this goes on for a couple of months
[16:33] <james_w> most stuff is pulled in automatically
[16:33] <james_w> but if we have modified a package in Ubuntu then we must "merge" the changes
[16:33] <james_w> this activity is unsurprisingly known as "merging"
[16:34] <james_w> this is an important activity, as it is one of the main ways we make sure we are up-to-date, and is where a lot of interesting new things for Ubuntu come from.
[16:34] <Kmos> Nosgosh: try #ubuntu-es-classroom
[16:34] <james_w> we owe a lot to Debian, and to the "upstreams" that they take from
[16:35] <jepes> hola javier
[16:37] <cineris> thanks Kmos
[16:38] <james_w> after that process has gone of for a couple of months (at "Debian Import Freeze", or "DIF")
[16:38] <james_w> we stop the automatic import, and start to focus on the next release
[16:38] <james_w> there is still a couple of months where we work on new things
[16:39] <james_w> we either start to jump ahead of Debian a little bit by pulling directly from "upstream"
[16:39] <james_w> or we add new things ourselves
[16:39] <james_w> that goes on until "feature freeze"
[16:39] <james_w> at that point we start to focus on making the next release solid
[16:40] <james_w> this starts a couple of months before release
[16:40] <james_w> and things start to freeze more and more over time
[16:40] <james_w> meaning we make smaller and smaller changes to try not to break anything
[16:40] <james_w> then we release and have a big party
[16:41] <james_w> <ikis> QUESTION: Do you use the unstable Debian always?
[16:41] <james_w> not always
[16:41] <james_w> that's the default, but it's possible to take from elsewhere if needed
[16:41] <james_w> e.g. experimental
[16:42] <james_w> as Debian is currently frozen we have been doing that a bit more than usual this cycle
[16:42] <james_w> <Ape3000> QUESTION: Can you increase the rate of backporting so we would always have the newest software? If it's stable on upstream, why shouldn't it be stable on Ubuntu?
[16:42] <james_w> it's not that simple
[16:43] <james_w> how stable a release is from upstream varies
[16:43] <james_w> and more than that, it depends a lot on the rest of the packages
[16:43] <james_w> so backporting something that works fine may cause it to break
[16:44] <james_w> also, stability is important within a release. Having your system possibly break every day isn't very good to work on.
[16:44] <james_w> selective backports can help for somethings
[16:45] <james_w> and spending more time on backporting means we spend less on the next release, whereas we think it's important to make ubuntu+1 great, and we can do that without having to worry too much about stability for our users
[16:45] <james_w> *and* you're never more than 6 months from the latest release
[16:46] <james_w> <ongolaBoy> QUESTION:why do you release twice a year ?is it reliable ?
[16:46] <james_w> it was decided that this gave the best balance between releasing quickly to get new stuff out there
[16:46] <james_w> and releasing slowly to make sure things were well tested and stable
[16:47] <james_w> it also stems from GNOME's 6-monthly release cycle
[16:47] <james_w> following them is very useful for us
[16:47] <james_w> read Mark's writing on release scheduling if you want to know more
[16:48] <james_w> <Ape3000> QUESTION: What about online games that must be always the newest stable version in upstream? Shouldn't you prefer using the supported version instead of being 100% stable?
[16:48] <james_w> there are obviously special cases, and we try and handle them appropriately
[16:48] <james_w> <slavsun> QUESTION: when the Plymoth technology (loading different services at the same time) will be deployed in Ubuntu ?
[16:49] <james_w> I think you've got a few things mixed up there, Plymouth isn't to do with services
[16:49] <james_w> I'll talk a little bit about the new feature process though
[16:50] <james_w> this process is ongoing, but it comes together towards the end of the release schedule
[16:50] <james_w> we start to survey what changes are arriving upstream, look at brainstorm, talk to each other, etc.
[16:51] <james_w> from that each developer will decide what is both important, and achieveable for the next cycle
[16:51] <james_w> from that they will come up with a number of specifications
[16:51] <james_w> these are then discussed at UDS, or elsewhere
[16:51] <james_w> and then drafted, and approved
[16:52] <james_w> and the developer will then work on them to be included in the next Ubuntu release
[16:52] <james_w> plus, there are lots of things that are just implemented along the way without a specification etc.
[16:52] <james_w> usually smaller things
[16:52] <james_w> plus we get lots of new shiny by default every release from upstreams
[16:53] <james_w> <shankhs> QUESTION:In brainstorm u get lots of conflicting ideas how u manage that?
[16:53] <james_w> well, we don't have to implement them all, so we're ok
[16:53] <james_w> but part of the point of brainstorm is to gauge how the user base feel about conflicting ideas
[16:54] <james_w> if both are voted really high then we have to find another way
[16:54] <james_w> <Ape3000> QUESTION: Do you listen to Brainstorm? If an idea gets lots of votes, do you implement that?
[16:54] <james_w> it's not as simple as that
[16:54] <james_w> we keep an eye on it, but we don't take the top 50 ideas from brainstorm to work on
[16:55] <james_w> firstly, as I said the idea has to be acheivable, when many aren't, at least in the short term
[16:55] <james_w> secondly, user votes isn't the only thing that should drive an OS
[16:56] <paradx> hi
[16:56] <james_w> right, there have been loads of questions about REVU, so I'll talk about that
[16:56] <james_w> you can find REVU at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/
[16:56] <james_w> and read about it at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU
[16:57] <james_w> REVU is a way for people to propose packages to be included in Ubuntu
[16:57] <james_w> if you find something really useful that isn't included in Ubuntu you can package it
[16:57] <james_w> and then put it on Ubuntu to get reviewed
[16:57] <james_w> MOTU can then come and review your package, and you can fix any problems and re-upload
[16:58] <james_w> if your package gets two advocates (MOTUs that say that it looks good) then it will be uploaded to Ubuntu
[16:58] <james_w> however, reviewing new packages is a time consuming activity
[16:59] <james_w> and there aren't that many MOTUs
[16:59] <james_w> and not all of them spend time reviewing packages on REVU
[16:59] <james_w> this means that there is a lack of reviewers, and so many packages on REVU go un-reviewed for a long period of time
[17:00] <james_w> if you want your package uploaded then you can put it on REVU and ask for reviewers in #ubuntu-motu every so often
[17:00] <james_w> and some patience will see your package uploaded. Then you can watch the bug reports and package new upstream versions etc.
[17:01] <james_w> if you are looking to become an Ubuntu developer then you should probably look for other ways to contribute
[17:02] <james_w> as the above reasons mean that it would take a very long time to developer status through REVU
[17:02] <james_w> and there is more to development than new packages
[17:02] <james_w> I would instead work on updating packages in the repositories to new versions
[17:02] <james_w> and fixing bugs in them
[17:03] <james_w> directhex> you could mention the option of targeting debian rather than revu, james_w
[17:03] <james_w> indeed, thanks directhex
[17:03] <james_w> if you have a new package then getting it in to Debian means that it will end up in Ubuntu anyway soon enough
[17:04] <james_w> and you get more potential users of your package
[17:04] <jsmidt> What's the best way to find out what needs done today? Harvest?
[17:04] <james_w> for finding other tasks to work on then you can use Mr. Holbach's "Harvest" http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/
[17:06] <james_w> this aggregates lists we have of "low-hanging" fruit
[17:06] <james_w> so they are good leads to pick up
[17:06] <james_w> the absolute *best* thing to do is work on something you care about though
[17:07] <james_w> if you use and love the epiphany web browser then take a look at the list of bugs on that and find something you think you could tackle
[17:08] <james_w> if you try to install a cool new game and it fails to start as it is missing a dependency on some package then prepare a fix to the package so that you can install it
[17:09] <james_w> if you really miss the ability to click on URLs and have them open in your web browser from some terminal emulator that you use then work out how to make that happen and submit a patch
[17:09] <james_w> don't be afraid to start small either
[17:09] <james_w> picking up a bug about a spelling mistake somewhere to work on isn't a bad thing, even though it's not coding C++, every time you work on something you will learn loads
[17:10] <james_w> and before too long you will be able to tackle larger things
[17:11] <james_w> (typing break, my fingers hurt :-) )
[17:12] <Paddy_EIRE> james_w, :)
[17:12] <james_w> right, let's look at other ways to contribute
[17:13] <james_w> so, I've mainly been talking about packaging, as that is the core of what we do
[17:13] <james_w> but there are very few people that just do "packaging"
[17:13] <james_w> it naturally leads you to work on other things
[17:13] <james_w> so we do a lot of bug-fixing
[17:14] <james_w> we also develop some new features
[17:14] <james_w> but that is a large time investment, so the scales we work at leave us little time to do that
[17:15] <james_w> there are two main types of new features that you can contribute though
[17:15] <james_w> the first is of the class "make my favourite application do such-and-such"
[17:15] <james_w> these generally only touch a single package
[17:15] <james_w> and we tend to think of these as "upstream" features
[17:16] <james_w> for these you are often best off contacting the upstream project, as they will know the code much better and will be able to hep you
[17:16] <james_w> the other type are the "glue" features
=== maix_ is now known as maix
[17:17] <james_w> this is where we make something work well either across, or between packages
[17:17] <james_w> this is one area that Ubuntu shines
[17:17] <james_w> this involves either writing new code, or integrating it from upstream
[17:18] <james_w> so you can make something "just work"
[17:18] <james_w> this is where most attention is focused, as these are the things that usually can't be done upstream
[17:18] <james_w> either because they are distribution-specific in some way (for instance installer integration)
[17:19] <james_w> or because they don't live in one package, but between them
[17:20] <james_w> if you have an idea in this area and want to work on it then it's a good idea to track down the right people to talk to
[17:20] <james_w> sometimes this is one particular person, sometimes a team, or sometimes it's a little bit of several people
[17:21] <james_w> if it's to do with a particular package then you can find out who might be a good person to talk to by reading the changelog
[17:21] <james_w> otherwise posting to the mailing list about it is probably the way to go
[17:22] <james_w> <xnox> QUESTION: do translators and bug-squashers get same amount of recognition as the packagers? Eg. in terms of getting Member, MOTU and Coredev statuses?
[17:22] <james_w> the can equally get membership
[17:22] <james_w> they can't get MOTU and core-dev for those activities though
[17:23] <james_w> as they don't normally need to upload packages to do that
[17:23] <james_w> someone would be perfectly welcome to be a translator *and* a MOTU though
[17:23] <james_w> and many people are
[17:24] <james_w> <creek23> QUESTION: Does core-dev or MOTU get paid?
[17:24] <james_w> not necessarily
[17:24] <james_w> some are paid for their work, many by canonical
[17:24] <james_w> but that is neither a requirement nor a guarantee
[17:25] <james_w> there are many volunteer developers who do fantastic work
[17:25] <james_w> <Xazax> QUESTION: there are lot of updated or new packages on getdeb.net. Whats with that? When will they be implemented?
[17:25] <james_w> we don't pull from getdeb.net without manuall inspection
[17:25] <james_w> if there was an updated package there then we could review it and pull it
[17:26] <james_w> or the person that put it on getdeb could seek sponsorship to get it in to Ubuntu
[17:26] <james_w> but we have other ways of finding out about new upstream versions
[17:28] <james_w> rugby471> QUESTION: As a confident user, I reported a bug in launchpad, however it still has not be implemented after a long time, I figured the thing to do is package it myself, however I don't know how to get the source of the deb etc. How do you intend to make bug solving easier for users like myself?
[17:29] <james_w> that's the best way of doing it, then you don't have to wait for someone else:
[17:29] <james_w> :-)
[17:29] <james_w> I personally care a lot about making bug solving as easy as possible in Ubuntu
[17:30] <james_w> well, at least easy to integrate the fix if you can work out what it is
[17:30] <james_w> we can't really make it easier to actually solve problems ;-)
[17:30] <james_w> I'm working on a few projects that I hope will help with this
[17:30] <james_w> and we have had lots of discussion within the developer community about making it easy
[17:31] <james_w> I would say that if you have a fix, and you subscribe the sponsors as outlined in the sponsorship process I discussed earlier you should find it fairly easy to get your fix in
[17:31] <james_w> (assuming that it's not doing something bad)
[17:31] <james_w> <maxb> QUESTION: How does a contributor know when they are ready to apply for MOTU?
[17:32] <james_w> maxb: it's a discussion that has also been going on in recent weeks
[17:32] <james_w> the oft-given answer to this is either "when people tell you you are"
[17:32] <james_w> or "when people are surprised that you aren't already"
[17:32]  * xnox lol
[17:33] <james_w> if you have a couple of regular sponsors then ask them, they will happily tell you if they think you are ready
[17:33] <james_w> and if not they will be able to give you suggestions about where you can improve
[17:34] <james_w> if you don't have regular sponsors then you either haven't really been involved long enough, or you've just been *really* unlucky and never had something sponsored by the same person twice
[17:34] <james_w> (regular here would be 5 or so)
[17:34] <james_w> if you think you are doing well, but you really don't know who to ask then you can find someone from the MOTU council and speak to them about it
[17:35] <james_w> or indeed any MOTU would be glad to help I'm sure
[17:35] <james_w> xnox> QUESTION/SUGGESTION: what about QA? from release perspective (+1) and from the on-going perspective (current, stable and LTS)
[17:35] <james_w> we have the QA team, who try and test things, and keep an eye on the bugs to try and spot things that need to be fixed
[17:35] <james_w> and of course, being free software, the users are testers too
[17:36] <james_w> so we really on bugs being reported, and being escalated in the correct manner
[17:36] <james_w> I think there are some QA sessions this week you could attend to find out more
[17:36] <james_w> and there are weekly QA meetings if you have suggestions
[17:36] <james_w> creek23> QUESTION: Does a software needs a large amount of user before ever being added to Ubuntu upstream?
[17:37] <directhex> <james_w> so we really on bugs being reported, and being escalated in the correct manner <-- and with sufficient detail that they can be repeated & isolated by the person fixing the bug - "it doesn't work" helps nobody
[17:37] <james_w> "upstream" means the places we pull software from, not part of Ubuntu
[17:37] <james_w> directhex: indeed
[17:37] <james_w> but no, we don't require a large amount of users before being added to Ubuntu
[17:37] <james_w> though a package with close to zero *potential* users may have a hard time getting added
[17:38] <james_w> <creek23> QUESTION: after a "needs packaging" is confirmed, when does it usually implemented?
[17:38] <james_w> when somebody does it
[17:38] <james_w> that's the best you can say
[17:38] <james_w> xnox> QUESTION: can maintainers of Debian packages apply for Ubuntu Members status and get it like automagicly?
[17:38] <james_w> not sure
[17:39] <james_w> they will probably be able to get developer status quite quickly, as they presumably have good technical knowledge
[17:39] <james_w> but as for member status, I'm not sure
[17:39] <james_w> that would be up to the councils in the end
[17:41] <james_w> launchpad is the place where a lot of Ubuntu development is tracked
[17:41] <james_w> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu
[17:41] <james_w> you will need an account there for a lot of development activities
[17:42] <james_w> and you can find bug reports, translations, answers, specifications, build logs, NEW queue, and loads more on there
[17:45] <james_w> <ronj> QUESTION: I had never heard of REVU before this session. One question after a quick look at the tool: don't you think this could be simplified and integrated to Launchpad? Seems redundant with some LP features. Or am I missing the point of the tool?
[17:45] <james_w> it could perhaps be integrated in to launchpad, but it isn't, so we have REVU
[17:45] <james_w> the launchpad developers would know if there were plans for it, or even if they wanted something like that
[17:46] <james_w> <jsmidt> QUESTION: Should we update packages updated upstream but not in Debian?  If so, when is the freeze timeline for this?
[17:46] <james_w> jsmidt: yep, there's no problem with that
[17:46] <james_w> jsmidt: right at the beginning of the cycle it may be easier/better to get it in to Debian, and then sync
[17:47] <james_w> in the middle it may be better to get it in to Ubuntu directly, unless you know that it will be updated in Debian soon
[17:47] <james_w> at the end you will have to get a freeze exception, and it doesn't really matter where the package is coming from then
[17:50] <james_w> xnox> QUESTION: Debian is frozen right now. What does it mean for them and for us?
[17:50] <james_w> this means that Debian is in the process of releasing
[17:50] <james_w> the freeze lasts for a long time in this period
[17:50] <james_w> and during that time there are less uploads to Debian "unstable"
[17:50] <james_w> some upload to "experimental", but some just wait
[17:51] <james_w> that means to get things through Debian is a bit of a pain from Ubuntu's point of view, as they are concentrating on release
[17:51] <james_w> I'm happy for them to do that, but it causes us a bit of disruption compared to the normal routine
[17:55] <james_w> xenonex> How can I help in adding the latest version of the package in a repository? (for example, dhcpcd need to upgrade to version 4)
[17:55] <james_w> firstly file a bug with the necessary information
[17:55] <james_w> and tag it "upgrade"
[17:55] <james_w> then check the Debian bug tracking system for the package and see if it has been requested there
[17:56] <james_w> and if it has then link the bug in launchpad
[17:56] <k-milogars> hello
[17:56] <james_w> if not then you can file it in Debian (after checking it is not in Debian already)
[17:56] <james_w> if it is in Debian then we need to do the merge
[17:56] <james_w> once that is done you can tackle the upgrade yourself
[17:56] <james_w> check "uupgrade" from devscripts that will automate some steps
[17:58]  * james_w calls time
[17:58] <james_w> thanks for your participation everyone
[17:58]  * directhex blows a whistle
[17:58] <directhex> round of applause for james_w
[17:58] <james_w> I hope it was useful
[17:58] <xnox> james_w: thank you for the session!!!!!
[17:59]  * xnox claps
[17:59]  * Arc applauds
[17:59] <huats> james_w: congrats ;)
[17:59]  * creek23 claps!
[17:59] <james_w> I wonder how far I diverged from the sessions in other languages :-)
[17:59] <jsmidt> \me claps
[17:59] <Paddy_EIRE> james_w, Thank you very much for your time
[17:59] <rugby471> THANK YOU!!!!! (oops not meant to post in this channel :-] )
[17:59] <CrownAmbassador> Will this be published somewhere like other meetings? I couldn't log it before it started.
[17:59] <Jarlen> thanks james_w, it was very enlightening :)
[17:59] <james_w> CrownAmbassador: check the wiki
[17:59] <EnCuKou> james_w: Thanks for the talk!
[17:59] <theseas> thanx james_w
[17:59] <jsmidt> thanks james_w