DesktopTeamQA

Dev Week -- Ubuntu Desktop Q&A -- seb128 -- Mon, Jul 11th, 2011

   1 [18:01] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/11/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
   2 [18:01] <seb128> hey
   3 [18:01] <seb128> thanks dholbach
   4 [18:01] <seb128> welcome to the desktop team Q&A
   5 [18:02] <seb128> ok, ready
   6 [18:02] <seb128> how is everybody today?
   7 [18:02] <seb128> I hope you had fun with Daniel
   8 [18:02] <seb128> let's see what sort of questions you have for the desktop team ;-)
   9 [18:03] <seb128> ok, let's get started, I see a few desktop contributors and members in the room, I will answer questions but might dispatch a few ones for others in the desktop team if appropriate
  10 [18:04] <ClassBot> ben72 asked: will gnome3 be easier to install in the coming ubuntu releases?
  11 [18:04] <seb128> yes!
  12 [18:04] <seb128> GNOME released after the natty freeze and we were busy with unity
  13 [18:05] <seb128> so rather than doing a suboptimal job at the best to get GNOME in natty we rather stayed on 2.32 and delayed to this cycle
  14 [18:05] <seb128> we have GNOME3 proper in oneiric already and are working on GNOME 3.1
  15 [18:06] <seb128> the fact that we moved to unity by default also means we reduced our number of GNOME patches
  16 [18:06] <seb128> so if you start a GNOME classic session (gnome-panel) or a gnome-shell session in oneiric you should have a pretty much upstream complete experience
  17 [18:06] <seb128> GNOME classic and GNOME shell will not be on the CD but an apt-get install away and well maintained and supported
  18 [18:07] <seb128> I hope we will keep GNOME users happy since we still love GNOME ;-)
  19 [18:07] <seb128>  
  20 [18:07] <ClassBot> dell asked: Why is default theme on ubuntu always bad as compared to windows or mac
  21 [18:07] <seb128> is it?
  22 [18:07] <seb128> I've no strong opinion on that, I like the light variant of the default theme
  23 [18:08] <seb128> but you should comment on the ayatana list if you have specific issues or suggestions
  24 [18:08] <seb128> or open bugs on launchpad against the theme if you find bugs in it
  25 [18:08] <seb128>  
  26 [18:08] <ClassBot> NMinker asked: With Oneiric, how was the transition to Linux 3.0?  Was it any different from past kernel upgrades (2.6.37, 2.6.38, etc.)?
  27 [18:09] <seb128> no a very desktopish question so I'm not sure but from I know it's pretty similar to any kernel update
  28 [18:09] <seb128>  
  29 [18:09] <ClassBot> auToeXeC asked: Will Ubuntu be officially supported with GNOME?
  30 [18:09] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand the question
  31 [18:09] <seb128> GNOME doesn't support officially or not distributions that I know about
  32 [18:10] <seb128> you should maybe reformulate the question?
  33 [18:10] <seb128>  
  34 [18:10] <ClassBot> rww asked: Does GNOME Shell in Oneiric use notify-osd, indicator applets, etc., or does it use the upstream alternatives to those?
  35 [18:10] <seb128> GNOME shell is oneiric should be a stock upstream experience (i.e no notify-osd, no indicators)
  36 [18:10] <seb128> if you find cases where it's not please open bugs
  37 [18:10] <seb128>  
  38 [18:11] <ClassBot> dell asked: Ubuntu 11.04 did not install with default setting in my old 32-bit computer, but previous versions did. So is it a mith that ubuntu supports old hardware
  39 [18:11] <seb128> how did not install? it's hard to say without details on your configuration, but 11.04 should not be limited over previous versions
  40 [18:11] <seb128> it could be a bug
  41 [18:11] <seb128>  
  42 [18:12] <ClassBot> grungekid_ asked: There is a post in the ubuntu forum currently about Ubuntu frying Macbook cpu's due to OSX managing the voltage on the processor itself and Linux not doing a good enough job. Is there any truth behind this?
  43 [18:12] <seb128> good question, not really desktopish though and to be honest I've no clue, I down own any mac computer and didn't read anything about those issues
  44 [18:12] <seb128>  
  45 [18:12] <ClassBot> ashams asked: Where to report *non-bitsize* User Experience bugs? Is there any team or person who collect&fix them?
  46 [18:13] <seb128> on the component they affect
  47 [18:13] <seb128> or use the ayatana mailing list if you want to discuss the issues with dx or design
  48 [18:13] <seb128>  
  49 [18:13] <ClassBot> coalitians asked: How are the feedbacks you are getting for implementing  Unity?
  50 [18:13] <seb128> good question
  51 [18:14] <seb128> we have quite a range of reactions to unity
  52 [18:14] <seb128> some users don't like change and so don't like it
  53 [18:14] <seb128> some users are used to tweak their configuration in precise ways and they don't like it much either
  54 [18:15] <seb128> some users first didn't like it because it was different but gave it a chance and after a while found themself very happy with it
  55 [18:15] <seb128> new users seems to be the ones most positive about it
  56 [18:15] <seb128> they like the modern look and they like how easy it is to use
  57 [18:16] <seb128> we got from the feedback though that we still need to improve, the current version still has stability issues and rough edges
  58 [18:16] <seb128> the product is still new and dx and other teams are working hard to improve it, let's see how it goes this cycle and for the lts
  59 [18:17] <seb128> but we are quite confident that if manage to make it solid and polished a bit users feedback will keep being good
  60 [18:17] <seb128>  
  61 [18:17] <ClassBot> dell asked: There is a post that windows 7 is less power consuming that ubuntu. Is it true ubuntu is more power hungry due to desktop
  62 [18:18] <seb128> it's hard to say, power usage is depending of what is running, of your hardware, of the drivers for your hardware, etc
  63 [18:18] <seb128> not really a desktopish question either btw
  64 [18:18] <seb128> I've no doubt some drivers could do better and our desktop could do better as well on some components
  65 [18:19] <seb128> but what I read around on the internet didn't show ubuntu being that power hungry either
  66 [18:19] <seb128> would be a better question for the kernel team though ;-)
  67 [18:19] <seb128>  
  68 [18:19] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: Are there any plans to expand on the social integration in Oneiric?
  69 [18:20] <seb128> expand how?
  70 [18:20] <seb128> gwibber is being rewritten and the new version should land in oneiric soon
  71 [18:21] <seb128> it will be lighter and better but I don't know of plan to add support for things which were not available before
  72 [18:21] <seb128> better to check with kenvandine though
  73 [18:21] <seb128>  
  74 [18:21] <ClassBot> saimanoj60 asked: why is the laptop edition and desktop editon merged?
  75 [18:22] <seb128> because maintaining 2 editions has a cost
  76 [18:22] <seb128> it requires extra images to maintain, build, test, host, mirror, etc
  77 [18:22] <seb128> the differences between the two edition were small as well
  78 [18:23] <seb128> unity works fine on laptop and desktop configs so we decided we better spend the resources on making one solid product rather than dividing efforts
  79 [18:23] <seb128>  
  80 [18:23] <ClassBot> auToeXeC asked: Earlier Ubuntu versions were packed with ubuntu. Now, the 11.04 isn't available with GNOME. I'm asking if further versions will have GNOME like Kubuntu is with KDE?
  81 [18:23] <seb128> were packed with GNOME you mean?
  82 [18:24] <seb128> there is no plan right now from the current team to do a GNOMEbuntu flavor of Ubuntu
  83 [18:24] <seb128> but that's mainly because it's easy to install gnome-shell over Ubuntu and because the current team is busy
  84 [18:24] <seb128> that would be a nice project if there is a motivated community wanting to maintain it
  85 [18:25] <seb128> if you want to work on that feel free to join on #ubuntu-desktop we can help you to start on it and maintain it
  86 [18:25] <seb128>  
  87 [18:25] <ClassBot> Godji asked: Do you plan to make Unity highly customizable (at least as much as GNOME 2.x is, and ideally as much as the KDE 4.x desktop)? If yes, is it a high priority task?
  88 [18:25] <seb128> no
  89 [18:26] <seb128> customization is nice but it makes the code harder to maintain, increase the number of bug, etc
  90 [18:26] <seb128> we decided to focus on doing things one way and doing them well
  91 [18:27] <seb128> but GNOME classic, xfce, KDE, etc are still available and maintained for those who like other experiences
  92 [18:27] <seb128> or like tweaking
  93 [18:27] <seb128> or have a difference vision
  94 [18:27] <seb128>  
  95 [18:27] <ClassBot> dell asked: Can't ubuntu provide vlc by default. And the stuffs like mp3 can be later updated when user first starts it. Default media player on ubuntu is not good.
  96 [18:27] <seb128> what is no good with totem?
  97 [18:28] <seb128> we didn't look at vlc recently, it's a great product but I think the way they distribute codecs make it non pratical to ship it by default
  98 [18:28] <seb128> there are lot of codecs that are patented and which can't be legally distributed
  99 [18:29] <seb128> gstreamer does ship codecs in different sources to address those issues and have legal solutions for i.e mp3 playing which you can buy
 100 [18:29] <seb128> it's not likely we could switch to vlc
 101 [18:29] <seb128> without speaking about CD space or ui consideration...
 102 [18:29] <seb128>  
 103 [18:29] <ClassBot> kamil_p asked: are you working at making indicators work in gnome-shell?
 104 [18:30] <seb128> we as the ubuntu desktop team are not but there is a bug on bugzilla.gnome.org with a patch for that I think
 105 [18:30] <seb128> so it should be possible to get code to load them in gnome-shell in some way
 106 [18:30] <seb128>  
 107 [18:30] <ClassBot> coalitians asked: How are  the Application integration with Global Menu Bar happening?
 108 [18:30] <seb128> you mean?
 109 [18:30] <seb128> it should happen automatically for gtk and qt applications
 110 [18:31] <seb128> the appmenu-gtk and appmenu-qt code strip menubars from applications and export those for you without having to do anything
 111 [18:31] <seb128> there is still some buggy case, if you find one open a bug against libdbusmenu
 112 [18:32] <seb128> (that's for gtk and qt, other toolkit are not supported though firefox and lo got code exporting their menu, but that's not automatic for those)
 113 [18:32] <seb128>  
 114 [18:32] <ClassBot> dell asked: One issue I found was ubuntu started fan under 8 minutes and that on windows 7 was i think more than 15 minutes. This way the computer gets more heated and more power consumption
 115 [18:32] <seb128> open a bug with the detail of what is running, your hardware configuration, etc I guess
 116 [18:33] <seb128> it could be lot of reason, something using the cpu in the session, suboptimal drivers, ...
 117 [18:33] <seb128> not really a desktop question though
 118 [18:33] <seb128>  
 119 [18:33] <ClassBot> Shock asked: Why was compiz 0.9.x released with so many regressions compared to 0.8.x? Why not stick with 0.8.x until 0.9.x became mature enough?
 120 [18:33] <seb128> the situation was a bit unfortunate but there was no obvious or easy choice
 121 [18:34] <seb128> compiz 0.8 was written in C
 122 [18:34] <seb128> compiz 0.9 is in cpp
 123 [18:34] <seb128> so the choice was to start writing unity in C and on a non maintained codebase
 124 [18:35] <seb128> which would have probably mean the new codebase would have got testing and that unity would have been to be rewriten or refactored a lot later on
 125 [18:35] <seb128> or to move forward, skip on the new codebase, write code ready for what is maintained and is the way to go and fix the issues on the way
 126 [18:36] <seb128> in practice that's lot of work and the team has limited resources so they didn't manage to get it all sorted in one cycle
 127 [18:36] <seb128> we do believe that's what put us in the best position to have a stable codebase we can maintain soon
 128 [18:36] <seb128> especially before the next LTS
 129 [18:36] <seb128> the tradeoff is a bit less stability during one cycle or two out of the LTS...
 130 [18:36] <seb128>  
 131 [18:37] <ClassBot> NMinker asked: Not a "desktopish" question, why was a Netbook edition available for Natty, even though it was discontinued?
 132 [18:37] <seb128> was there? or was it only an armel version?
 133 [18:37] <seb128> the armel team kept using the netbook edition because armel has poor 3d support and unity2d was not there yet
 134 [18:37] <seb128>  
 135 [18:38] <ClassBot> saimanoj60 asked: Relating to my previous question - merging desktop and laptop editions-- Then how are the differences like touchpad and webcam features are provided? If they are included, are not they burden for desktop users?
 136 [18:38] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand what differences you talk about
 137 [18:38] <seb128> most laptops nowadays have a touchapd and a webcam built in
 138 [18:39] <seb128> most desktop users have a webcam
 139 [18:39] <seb128> the options for devices which are not available are just not showed
 140 [18:39] <seb128> the same way as printer drivers for example are available, it doesn't mean you have to use a printer, but if you want to that makes it easier
 141 [18:39] <seb128>  
 142 [18:39] <ClassBot> amorphous1 asked: How can we change the font size to a custom one in Oneiric?
 143 [18:39] <seb128> use dconf-editor
 144 [18:40] <seb128> the ui options are in org.gnome.desktop.interface
 145 [18:40] <seb128> that's not really user friendly though
 146 [18:40] <seb128> you can also install gnome-tweak-tools
 147 [18:40] <seb128> or ubuntu-tweak-tools I guess (need to look what they provide with it)
 148 [18:41] <seb128> we still plan to look at the options GNOME3 dropped from its ui and figure what to do for them in oneiric
 149 [18:41] <seb128> so maybe themes and some other will come back in some way in the UI
 150 [18:41] <seb128>  
 151 [18:41] <ClassBot> saimanoj60 asked: If the codecs are patented, I dont understand how the commercial operating system(windows) is able to distribute those codecs.
 152 [18:41] <seb128> they pay a patent fee by system
 153 [18:42] <seb128> it's easy for them to pay let's say $1 by windows copy to provide the codecs since they charge you for the OS
 154 [18:42] <seb128> Ubuntu is free, it's hard to pay to include things to something you give for free
 155 [18:42] <seb128>  
 156 [18:43] <ClassBot> dell asked: Totem does not handle video well like vlc, It always displays the visualization window and stuffs like that. VLC is by the way best on all platform. So since, it is free and open source, why not go for the best
 157 [18:43] <seb128> if you have specific bugs with totem please open those
 158 [18:43] <seb128> I've no doubt vlc and mplayer are great player and probably do better than gstreamer and totem in several cases
 159 [18:43] <seb128> but as said before they would not be easy to distribute
 160 [18:44] <seb128> but feel free to start a discussion on the ubuntu-desktop mailing list about it
 161 [18:44] <seb128> that's probably the best way to have a discussion and to summarize reasons
 162 [18:44] <seb128> we might figure after discussion that we could change in one of the next cycles who knows ;-)
 163 [18:44] <seb128>  
 164 [18:44] <ClassBot> LibertyZero asked: If you plan to stick with totem, are there any plans to redesign the interface? It's currently not only ugly but also do the large controls and the statusbar waste quite a lot of screen space unnecessarily.
 165 [18:45] <seb128> not that I know about
 166 [18:45] <seb128> we are busy enough working on the desktop, we don't really have resources to redesign applications
 167 [18:45] <seb128> that's probably something you should raise on upstream lists on bring up to the totem writers
 168 [18:46] <seb128> we might be able to do some tweaks to address some obvious issues, so if you have some of those please open bugs or mail the ayatana list for discussion
 169 [18:46] <seb128> but we will not like redesign it
 170 [18:46] <seb128>  
 171 [18:46] <ClassBot> MedaRock asked: how is the feedback for unity 2d, and what i need to know to help?
 172 [18:46] <seb128> hum, good question
 173 [18:47] <seb128> so didrocks who is mostly maintain it is not there this week but he would be the best placed to answer
 174 [18:47] <seb128> the feedback I read was good so far
 175 [18:47] <seb128> they have a small team and could use some help for sure
 176 [18:47] <seb128> so maybe ask on #ayatana during european office hours
 177 [18:47] <seb128> or checking launchpad for bitesized bugs
 178 [18:48] <seb128> or open bugs that you feel like you could help on, I'm sure they would appreciate contributions
 179 [18:48] <seb128>  
 180 [18:48] <ClassBot> saimanoj60 asked: If the codecs are to be payed for use, then how are we able to download for free? Is it not legal?
 181 [18:48] <seb128> downloading things for personal use and providing things in a "product" are different things
 182 [18:49] <seb128> or said differently nobody is going to sue you for installing a mp3 player without rights
 183 [18:49] <seb128> but Canonical could be a better target to sue to get money
 184 [18:49] <seb128>  
 185 [18:50] <ClassBot> Cuzzie asked: Is there any difference between mplayer and totem?
 186 [18:50] <seb128> is there anything common between mplayer and totem? ;-)
 187 [18:50] <seb128> mplayer uses ffmpeg, totem gstreamer
 188 [18:50] <seb128> mplayer has different interfaces including command lines ones, totem is a GNOME application
 189 [18:51] <seb128>  
 190 [18:51] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: At UDS, Mark said that there was going to be a big focus to make webapps first-class citizens on the desktop, how is that going to be accomplished?
 191 [18:52] <seb128> that's a good question and I've not really seen anything coming out of that yet and I'm probably not the best person to ask, maybe watch the ayatana list if they discuss the topic there
 192 [18:52] <seb128> but I guess desktop integration will come with things like making webapps showing as applications on the unity launcher
 193 [18:52] <seb128> (there is a bug and work being done for that with chromium I think)
 194 [18:52] <seb128> i.e a webapp running in a chromium tab would be listed as any application in the launcher
 195 [18:53] <seb128> I guess they will figure other smart things to do over time as well ;-)
 196 [18:53] <seb128>  
 197 [18:53] <ClassBot> datastream_ asked: sometimes when i have a long folder name on my desktop, and its close to another folder they overlap. anything i can do to fix this besides moving the folders?
 198 [18:53] <seb128> not that I know about, seems like an old known bug
 199 [18:53] <seb128>  
 200 [18:53] <ClassBot> oscar-colombia asked: is onerci coming in gnome3 - gnome-shell desktop enviroments?
 201 [18:54] <seb128> oneiric Ubuntu will have unity-3d and unity-2d on the CD
 202 [18:54] <seb128> but gnome-shell and gnome-classic will still being available, supported, and one apt-get install away
 203 [18:54] <seb128> there seems to be some community interest also around doing a GNOMEubuntu flavor, i.e a CD with GNOME by default, let's see if that happen
 204 [18:55] <seb128> but if not GNOME will still be maintained as a first class citizen and very easy to install and run
 205 [18:55] <seb128>  
 206 [18:55] <ClassBot> dell asked: When will ubuntu go for gnome 3
 207 [18:55] <seb128> Oneiric is already using GNOME3
 208 [18:55] <seb128>  
 209 [18:55] <ClassBot> acklee asked: in terms of the Ubuntu desktop interface, whether other distros such as Mint also contribute?
 210 [18:56] <seb128> not that I know, they work on the interface of their distribution but i've not seen them engage a lot with us about improving the stock Ubuntu interfaces
 211 [18:56] <seb128>  
 212 [18:56] <ClassBot> NMinker asked: Will GNOME still be there if you upgrade from Natty to Oneiric?
 213 [18:57] <seb128> yes, there is no reason it should go away ;-)
 214 [18:57] <seb128>  
 215 [18:57] <seb128> ok, 3 minutes left and the queue is empty
 216 [18:57] <seb128> if you have a few remaining question now is the time to ask ;-)
 217 [18:58] <seb128> <NMinker> I'm referring to GNOME classic, obviously
 218 [18:58] <seb128> reply to that from -chat
 219 [18:58] <seb128> GNOME will have a GNOME Shell session and a GNOME classic
 220 [18:59] <seb128> GNOME classic will be similar to GNOME2, i.e gnome-panel etc
 221 [18:59] <seb128> with some redesign coming from GNOME
 222 [18:59] <seb128>  
 223 [18:59] <ClassBot> robinparriath asked: there were rumours of android apps on ubuntu.  True or false
 224 [18:59] <seb128> no idea
 225 [18:59] <seb128> I've no read or seen anything about that ;-)
 226 [18:59] <seb128>  
 227 [18:59] <ClassBot> john_g asked: Is libdbusmenu going through much change to use the new interfaces?
 228 [19:00] <seb128> what new interfaces?
 229 [19:00] <seb128> there is some improvements planned for this cycle as every cycle I think but better to check with dx team for the specific
 230 [19:00] <seb128> they got us 2 abi breaks already :p
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MeetingLogs/devweek1107/DesktopTeamQA (last edited 2011-07-12 07:53:23 by dholbach)