Ubuntu Open Week - sabdfl Q+A - Mark Shuttleworth - Tue, Apr 28th, 2009

(11:04:42 AM) sabdfl: howdy all
(11:04:44 AM) jcastro: Welcome Mark!
(11:04:57 AM) sabdfl: fingers all warmed up, let's get cracking
(11:05:01 AM) jcastro: Thanks everyone for showing up, all 324 of you!
(11:05:13 AM) jcastro: start with questions or do you have something to say first?
(11:05:22 AM) sabdfl: well
(11:05:35 AM) sabdfl: only thanks to everyone who helped  make 9.04 our BEST RELEASE EVER :-)
(11:05:41 AM) sabdfl: on that note, fire away
(11:05:43 AM) jcastro: <effie_jayx> QUESTION: Issues with drivers tend to plague Ubuntu with with nasty bugs very close to release time, is there any reconsiderations with release schedules to give more time for beta testing?
(11:06:11 AM) sabdfl: effie_jayx: thorny problem, and not one that the release cycle itself can solve
(11:06:26 AM) sabdfl: the more time we spend on beta testing, the more new hardware is emerging that won't work with that release
(11:06:33 AM) sabdfl: there is a conversation ongoing about the LTS's
(11:06:44 AM) sabdfl: needs comments, hint hint ;-)
(11:07:05 AM) sabdfl: but there's no strong movement to re-evaluate 6 month releases
(11:07:12 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:07:14 AM) jcastro: <kwah> QUESTION: Recently a translation coordinator was appointed at Canonical, I am glad that this aspect of cooperation between Ubuntu and various upstream projects is in focus. Are there already plans and ideas on what should be improved, may be even there particular targets have been defined already?
(11:07:32 AM) sabdfl: you'd be best asking (David) ?
(11:07:40 AM) jcastro: His session is 1500UTC on friday
(11:07:44 AM) sabdfl: coolio
(11:07:51 AM) jcastro: <RoAkSoAx> QUESTION: Does canonical provides Internships or Entry Level positions for sysadmins/developers?
(11:08:07 AM) sabdfl: we spent a lot of time building a translation framework that could coordinate between ubuntu and upstream
(11:08:15 AM) sabdfl: and then realised we had nobody actually focused on that flow
(11:08:24 AM) sabdfl: so hopefully this will be a big improvement
(11:08:56 AM) sabdfl: RoAkSoAx: yes, we do, best to chat with someone on the canonical platform (ubuntu) team, or one of the sysadmins if that's your focus area
(11:08:59 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:09:03 AM) jcastro: <oldman> QUESTION: Mark, are there plans to do more work with existing partners like IBM to increase official product  (WebSphere, Eclipse, TeamConcert etc.) support for Ubuntu Server as an enterprise platform?
(11:09:35 AM) sabdfl: oldman: yes, very much so. we need to be able to demonstrate critical mass, i have no doubt we will get there
(11:10:08 AM) sabdfl: key thing is to demonstrate large organisations deploying ubuntu in production, underneath services which they expect to pay to keep healthy and innovative
(11:10:23 AM) sabdfl: so, if you have case studies, or users, that will help
(11:10:39 AM) sabdfl: as best i can tell, ubuntu is the #1 platform for evaluations, now
(11:10:48 AM) sabdfl: need to translate that into production deployments
(11:10:49 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:10:53 AM) jcastro: <ikonia> QUESITON: What factors are you juding 9.04 as the best release ever from ?
(11:11:07 AM) sabdfl: nice combination of desktop and server features, plus
(11:11:15 AM) sabdfl: no major subsystem issues, plus
(11:11:31 AM) sabdfl: some unique features we are contributing to upstream, plus
(11:11:41 AM) sabdfl: 105 release parties, plus
(11:11:58 AM) sabdfl: it's named after a mythical horned rabbit.
(11:11:59 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:12:02 AM) jcastro: <blfgomes> QUESTION: Recently, the idea of replacing Rhythmbox for Banshee in Karmic has resparked the Mono debate in the Ubuntu community. As the SABDFL, what is your view on Mono? Is it safe to build a distribution that depends on it?
(11:12:28 AM) sabdfl: yes, i believe mono is a reasonable runtime to include in a distribution like ubuntu
(11:12:45 AM) sabdfl: i don't expect microsoft to launch any IP assaults based on mono adoption, they have said they will not do that
(11:12:51 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:12:54 AM) jcastro: <No`> QUESTION: Where do you think we are concerning the bug #1? do you see it being closed in the (more or less distant) future?
(11:13:02 AM) sabdfl: interesting times
(11:13:20 AM) sabdfl: linux (and to a certain extent ubuntu) is now a major force in the PC industry
(11:13:43 AM) sabdfl: microsoft was able to do a diving catch to save market share in netbooks only by giving XP away at very, very low prices
(11:13:49 AM) sabdfl: a product they wanted to kill 18 months ago
(11:13:56 AM) sabdfl: now, things will get more interesting
(11:14:20 AM) sabdfl: we will see Windows 7 Starter Edition in major western markets, which is new (it was designed for emerging markets to address piracy)
(11:14:28 AM) sabdfl: and we'll see if that model works for users
(11:14:35 AM) sabdfl: i think we can compete
(11:14:59 AM) sabdfl: ubuntu with full office capability competes nicely with uncrippled windows and office on price, stability and functionality
(11:15:04 AM) sabdfl: so, game on
(11:15:29 AM) sabdfl: we will know a lot more in 18 months - can we actually carve out territory that is defensible?
(11:15:32 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:15:34 AM) jcastro: <artir> QUESTION: what are the plans for GNOME3 and the LTS. Will you release 10.04 with it or defer it to 10.10?
(11:15:53 AM) sabdfl: we'll support GNOME3 in the best way we can
(11:16:17 AM) sabdfl: it's too early to say what that will be - it depends on what our users want, what the development community wants, and what the code looks like
(11:16:37 AM) sabdfl: i suspect it will be best to get GNOME3 onto as many *developer* desktops as possible as soon as possible
(11:16:58 AM) sabdfl: but that it will not be a good service to our users to suggest they upgrade direct to 3.0, perhaps more 3.2
(11:17:06 AM) sabdfl: the experience with KDE was very useful
(11:17:38 AM) sabdfl: if GNOME 3 is 2.30, then I expect we would make available packages in universe or a PPA with easy tools for people to get it in one click or one command
(11:17:49 AM) sabdfl: while delivering an LTS based on more established code
(11:18:14 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:18:16 AM) jcastro: <jsgotangco> QUESTION: Now that Ubuntu is diving into the "Cloud" space, how does Canonical see this evolution of Ubuntu server - does it involve  providing a server stack or more modular building blocks for enterprise apps?
(11:18:49 AM) ssd7 is now known as Guest98068
(11:19:11 AM) sabdfl: the Ubuntu server is already fantastic for highly virtualised and large-scale deployments, thanks to it's awesome heritage in Debian combined with the predictability of the Ubuntu cycle and service backup of Canonical
(11:19:40 AM) sabdfl: the debian way is highly modular, which is great for large deployments because you only install the bits you need, meaning you only have security updates for the bits you need
(11:19:52 AM) sabdfl: it's also great for virtualisation, because you have leaner, more efficient images
(11:19:56 AM) sabdfl: so far so good
(11:20:17 AM) sabdfl: next, i think the focus will shift to finding and deploying appliances rather than packages
(11:20:29 AM) sabdfl: but, your crystal ball is likely as good as mine :-)
(11:20:59 AM) sabdfl: in 9.10, i think we'll show progress in how you design and build collections of virtual appliances for deployment on a UEC (Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud) substrate
(11:21:01 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:21:04 AM) jcastro: <ronaldh> QUESTION: Mark, How do you see the Oracle-Sun deal, do you think it is going to affect Open source projects like Java, OpenOffice, etc? Is it going to affect in some way ubuntu?
(11:21:18 AM) sabdfl: it will definitely affect them, but it's too soon to know for sure how
(11:21:36 AM) sabdfl: we'll have to see whether Oracle makes any big initial moves (selling off or shutting down any projects)
(11:21:49 AM) sabdfl: then we'll need to see if the people who were engaged there are changed
(11:21:55 AM) sabdfl: and then we'll need to see how the dust settles
(11:22:05 AM) sabdfl: that will take three months, a year, three years respectively
(11:22:16 AM) sabdfl: the code is still free software, that cannot be taken back
(11:22:31 AM) sabdfl: if you're passionate about those projects the best thing to do is to participate, imo
(11:22:42 AM) sabdfl: i'm not worried about any of those
(11:22:45 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:22:46 AM) jcastro: <artir> QUESTION: Can you give us more intel on Ubuntuone, please? ( /sad kitten face=1)
(11:23:10 AM) sabdfl: ubuntu one is a framework for building online services that plug right into the desktop
(11:23:28 AM) sabdfl: so, you can build a service which has data in the cloud and a front-end on the desktop
(11:23:40 AM) sabdfl: Canonical provides some of the core infrastructure you can hook into
(11:23:50 AM) sabdfl: but your service is your business
(11:23:57 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:23:59 AM) jcastro: <ongolaBoy> QUESTION:considering a recently map on open source activity worldwide, what do you think could help african people to use more open source products ?
(11:24:23 AM) sabdfl: ongolaBoy: it takes a lot of confidence to deploy open source
(11:24:37 AM) sabdfl: so, how can we build the IT skills confidence in the continent?
(11:24:50 AM) sabdfl: better education, better experience with open source
(11:25:18 AM) sabdfl: i think it's up to the IT leaders in countries, government and private sector, to decide which way they want to go
(11:25:40 AM) sabdfl: i'm pretty sure africa will be a major beneficiary, but i'm not sure africa will be an effective leader of the move to open source
(11:25:42 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:25:45 AM) jcastro: <Milos_SD> QUESTION: Will we finaly have a promised "New look" in next release, and is it gonna be something good, something different or something like Human-Clearlooks. :)
(11:26:19 AM) sabdfl: Milos_SD: it has taken a long, long time to pull together a design team
(11:26:31 AM) sabdfl: i had hoped to have that team in place six months ago, but it's still forming
(11:26:39 AM) sabdfl: i think we will make good progress in the next cycle
(11:26:49 AM) sabdfl: you can already see a few things that have borne fruit from that team
(11:26:57 AM) sabdfl: notifications, time zone selector in installer, etc
(11:27:02 AM) sabdfl: but it's fragmentary
(11:27:12 AM) sabdfl: i'm pretty darn confident we'll have a new look for 10.04
(11:27:20 AM) sabdfl: but i think only pieces of that will emerge for 9.10
(11:27:21 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:27:23 AM) jcastro: <aquarius> QUESTION: Canonical have a design ethic that's (IMO) ahead of the rest of the free software community, and I'd love to buy hardware with that design ethic; any chance of Canonical making that happen somehow?
(11:27:34 AM) jcastro: some other questions about canonical getting into hardware as well
(11:28:08 AM) sabdfl: aquarius: appreciate the compliment - for the moment i think we have to focus our efforts on the software piece and work with a diversity of hardware partners to help you get the device you need and want!
(11:28:15 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:28:18 AM) jcastro: <emmajane> QUESTION: brick and mortar stores rely on the sales of software along with PCs. Many local-to-me shops refuse to carry free OS computers because they lose the related software sales. Do you have suggestions on how we can support our local shops AND Ubuntu?
(11:28:35 AM) sabdfl: it's a great question
(11:28:56 AM) sabdfl: essentially - is industry addicted to software margins, and can we safely treat the addiction?
(11:29:18 AM) sabdfl: one answer is that computers will increasingly be sold in non-specialised stores
(11:29:22 AM) sabdfl: both online and offline
(11:29:27 AM) sabdfl: Tesco's, and Amazon
(11:29:35 AM) sabdfl: or
(11:29:53 AM) sabdfl: that's not a great answer for your local-to-you specialised store, though
(11:30:30 AM) sabdfl: i don't have better ideas other than that, if we continue to improve the experience, usefulness, robustness and capabilities of the free software alternative
(11:30:37 AM) sabdfl: industry will reconfigure itself around that
(11:30:39 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:30:41 AM) jcastro: <cprofitt> QUESTION: Do you see value in assisting LoCo groups who want to advocate for Ubuntu at computer shows such as the annual NYSCATE show ( where Microsoft and Apple have dominated mind share in US schools
(11:31:09 AM) sabdfl: i do, but i also know the difficulty of engaging with thousands of such initiatives
(11:31:28 AM) sabdfl: we have programs like shipit, where we have specific processes to identify and support those sorts of events
(11:31:35 AM) sabdfl: but we are a small team spread thin worldwide
(11:31:45 AM) sabdfl: do you have a specific request or suggestion?
(11:32:04 AM) sabdfl: if so, please mail jorge, and feel free to cc me
(11:32:05 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:32:10 AM) jcastro: <rabbit251> QUESTION: If suddenly the majority of computer users were on Ubuntu machines instead of Windows, do you think Ubuntu would be ready? Are there any key developments that need to be made before Ubuntu could be an excellent mainstream product? (Is it even desirable to be so mainstream?)
(11:32:25 AM) sabdfl: great question
(11:32:34 AM) sabdfl: yes, it's desireable, and yes, there would be issues
(11:32:40 AM) sabdfl: i think we will grow into the role
(11:33:02 AM) sabdfl: there's a LOT going on at the hardware level, as we engage with the PC industry to work out how to enable them best on linux generally and Ubuntu specifically
(11:33:16 AM) sabdfl: if the world suddenly wanted Ubuntu everywhere tomorrow, we'd blow a fuse
(11:33:29 AM) sabdfl: but over time it could be done
(11:33:44 AM) sabdfl: and i think we shouldn't shy away from a mainstream role
(11:34:19 AM) sabdfl: folks spending weekends making X better, or GiMP better, or Abiword better, or OO.o better, will have more satisfaction if they know that work will reach 100m people rather than 10m people
(11:34:22 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:34:24 AM) jcastro: <jarens> Question : regarding the computer distribution, I ofen been told linux is for geeks/specialists only, my ubuntu experiences shows me the inverse, how can we change the way stores sales man see linux ?
(11:35:08 AM) sabdfl: jarens: only with patience, time, and commitment to making it even better every six months
(11:35:16 AM) sabdfl: thank you for the compliments though :-)
(11:35:17 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:35:19 AM) jcastro: <doctormo> QUESTION: I hear your in support of the new Ubuntu Learning group, do you think it's important for LoCo groups to be involved in Education Events, classes and so on?
(11:35:28 AM) sabdfl: yes, very much so
(11:35:37 AM) sabdfl: in part to help jarens with those salesmen :-)
(11:35:52 AM) sabdfl: we have very precious knowledge, those of us who are early on the free software adoption curve
(11:35:59 AM) sabdfl: and finding effective ways to share it is essential
(11:36:11 AM) sabdfl: so, kudos and thanks to all who are involved in that effort
(11:36:12 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:36:14 AM) jcastro: <koolhead17> Question:am from India and i can see real participation coming from all corners of the society for ubuntu but  they need real volunteers/certifications/motivation.what is the roadmap for that?
(11:36:47 AM) sabdfl: koolhead17: participating is a social process
(11:37:02 AM) sabdfl: so one thing is to make sure that those who join are made welcome and find constructive things to do
(11:37:26 AM) sabdfl: it's also professional, so we have been working for some time on qualifications that certify one's skills
(11:37:54 AM) sabdfl: the most important thing, imo, is convincing Indian companies to deploy free software, and hire people who know how to make it work
(11:38:06 AM) sabdfl: i saw news today about India buying 250k OLPC's, which is great
(11:38:29 AM) sabdfl: I also saw news about Indian IT companies letting their employees spend time on open source software during the recession, also brilliant
(11:38:40 AM) sabdfl: because it will let them build their reputation and skills for the post-recession time
(11:38:43 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:38:46 AM) jcastro: TheOpenSourcerer: QUESTION: A *good while* ago announcements were made regarding the packaging of Alfresco and Zimbra in the repos.  Where are they?
(11:39:01 AM) sabdfl: i don't know, offhand, i'm afraid
(11:39:29 AM) sabdfl: best would be to email
(11:39:31 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:39:33 AM) jcastro: <theron> QUESTION: with Canonical settling on virtualization support around KVM, is there going to be development of a Ubuntu KVM baremetal install similar to what Redhat is working on?
(11:39:53 AM) sabdfl: you mean, a thins hypervisor layer?
(11:40:03 AM) jcastro: yes
(11:40:16 AM) sabdfl: if so, we are already much thinner in a default install than Redhat
(11:40:21 AM) sabdfl: so it's less of a priority
(11:40:24 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:40:26 AM) jcastro: <carthik> QUESTION: As a maintainer of Ubuntu systems, I find it disappointing when many (non-security) bugs are closed with a comment saying "this is fixed for the $current-version-in-dev". Can LTS-es please start getting more meaningful long term support, ie, not just security fixes?
(11:40:52 AM) sabdfl: carthik: every update carries risk
(11:41:24 AM) sabdfl: if we fixed a bug for one user, but broke thousands of systems, we would be abusing our responsibilities
(11:41:34 AM) sabdfl: so, we are conservative in that regard
(11:41:59 AM) sabdfl: the SRU process is there specifically to ensure we maintain predictability for users
(11:42:09 AM) sabdfl: sometimes the bug you know is better than the fix you don't
(11:42:27 AM) sabdfl: if you think it can be done better i would encourage you to join the team that evaluates SRU's
(11:42:35 AM) sabdfl: put more fixed packages in PPA's
(11:42:39 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:42:41 AM) jcastro: Some ayatana questions! <oldman> QUESTION: Mark, as part of project ayatana, will we see Canonical's design team raising usability bugs and feeding suggested improvements into key desktop apps bug trackers for Karmic?
(11:42:55 AM) sabdfl: yes
(11:43:09 AM) jcastro: (also: <JayBee> QUESTION: What will come next in the Ayatana project? What part of the experience will you try to enhance next?)
(11:43:17 AM) sabdfl: Ayatana is an initiative that spans desktop environments (there are folks there from KDE and GNOME at least, possibly XFCE et al)
(11:43:41 AM) sabdfl: and I expect us to engage directly with individual upstreams as well as the broader DE's
(11:44:09 AM) sabdfl: notifications will see an evolutionary improvement in 9.10 that is under discussion on the Ayatana list
(11:44:17 AM) sabdfl: as will the messaging menu
(11:44:29 AM) sabdfl: those discussions are all public so please join in
(11:44:54 AM) sabdfl: there are some other new features that we are working on for partners, they will be open source when they release and go into the next version of ubuntu
(11:45:01 AM) sabdfl: more on those in the announcements in due course :-)
(11:45:03 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:45:06 AM) jcastro: <WebMaven> QUESTION: What heuristic do you use to determine which parts of Launchpad will be open sourced, and which will remain proprietary?
(11:45:39 AM) sabdfl: is a front end, all of that code is being released
(11:45:46 AM) sabdfl: there are a variety of other services and things that talk to it
(11:45:51 AM) sabdfl: and we'll release some of those
(11:46:21 AM) sabdfl: in some cases, licensing of components may preclude release
(11:46:35 AM) sabdfl: in others, i may want to create competitive advantage for canonical
(11:47:02 AM) sabdfl: but everything that an upstream uses through the web will be released
(11:47:04 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:47:07 AM) jcastro: <yuriy_jirov> QUESTION: dear mister Mark. What kind of poems do you like? Flight to space what rhyme gives?
(11:47:47 AM) sabdfl: Poems that distract from crashy landings :-)
(11:48:11 AM) sabdfl: it's a long time since i read poetry, but thanks for the reminder i'll go dig some up!
(11:48:29 AM) sabdfl: saw Oliver recently, was a lot of fun, i was the Artful Dodger in a school performance of it years ago
(11:48:30 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:48:32 AM) jcastro: <Shock> QUESTION: Why does Canonical refuse to provide a 32bit desktop kernel that supports more than 4GB of RAM?
(11:48:55 AM) sabdfl: Shock: because it's not worth the performance, stability and complexity tradeoffs for 10m users
(11:49:03 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:49:10 AM) jcastro: <Shane_Fagan> QUESTION: Have you seen gnome-shell what do you think?
(11:49:23 AM) sabdfl: i was there when it was being designed in Boston
(11:49:43 AM) sabdfl: i think there are cool ideas, and it will evolve into something fantastic given time
(11:50:01 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:50:06 AM) jcastro: <doctormo> QUESTION: Are there any plans to develop Beta/RC specific packages which are able to test hardware configurations and report more possible failures?
(11:50:28 AM) sabdfl: the whole arena of QA is coming on in leaps and bounds
(11:50:38 AM) sabdfl: we *nearly* go kerneloops integrated in 9.04, but it slipped
(11:50:49 AM) sabdfl: apport has come along hugely
(11:50:55 AM) sabdfl: all the bug reporting tools are improved
(11:51:10 AM) sabdfl: we are now at about 50% of bugs reported being done with tools rather than the web, which is great
(11:51:17 AM) sabdfl: we get much clearer data from tools, of course
(11:51:32 AM) sabdfl: for more, i would suggest you chat to henrik omma
(11:51:34 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:51:36 AM) jcastro: <MagicFab> QUESTION: Mark, what is your all-time favorite comfort food ?
(11:51:52 AM) sabdfl: peanut butter and jam on toast
(11:51:55 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:52:13 AM) jcastro: <miles2> QUESTION: Has there been any dialog with Apple on bringing official iTunes/iPod support to Linux?  This has been another stumbling block to linux adoption...
(11:52:14 AM) sabdfl: (i also have a killer weakness for by-weight sweets at the movies)
(11:52:25 AM) sabdfl: miles2: none of which i'm aware
(11:52:34 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:52:35 AM) jcastro: <A4Tech1> QUESTION: In Ubuntu 9.04 there is a new system notifications (notify-osd) When the ability to customize them? If so, what emerges more than two messages?
(11:52:58 AM) sabdfl: A4Tech1: serialising the messages is by design behaviour for notify-osd
(11:53:10 AM) sabdfl: in other words, if three different apps send you messages, you see them one at a time
(11:53:17 AM) sabdfl: that lets us bound the area devoted to this on the screen
(11:53:27 AM) sabdfl: we also created the ability for apps to append to existing messages
(11:53:38 AM) sabdfl: which is useful for sequential messages from the same app, often
(11:53:46 AM) sabdfl: like, messages from a friend on IM
(11:53:52 AM) sabdfl: pidgin supports that, and a few others do too
(11:54:14 AM) sabdfl: we have no immediate plans for theming
(11:54:18 AM) sabdfl: nexct?
(11:54:20 AM) jcastro: <vensign> QUESTION: What do you think is the importance of FOSS gaming for the adoption of Ubuntu?
(11:54:55 AM) sabdfl: vensign: i don't have any good ideas for how to drive FOSS gaming forward
(11:55:03 AM) sabdfl: personally, i game on a PS3 now, so it's less important for me
(11:55:07 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:55:09 AM) jcastro: <JayBee> QUESTION: We have great support for printer drivers now, are there plans to make it easy like that to download and install scanner firmware aswell? For example, there is a website ( with some firmware files, Ubuntu _only_ needs to provide a mechanism to automatically fetch them and put them in the right folder?
(11:55:25 AM) sabdfl: it's a good suggestion
(11:55:32 AM) sabdfl: come to UDS and lead the discussion there :-)
(11:55:44 AM) sabdfl: i don't know of any such plans, but it sounds like a reasonable suggestion
(11:55:53 AM) sabdfl: all you need to find is the Till Kampeter of scanners
(11:55:56 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:55:57 AM) jcastro: <DKcross> jcastro,  QUESTION: Until now you have lead a great project based on the unity of the community; I'm part of the El Salvador Team and we are in desperate need of support. We understand that this is a world wide effort but... with due respect... is there any plan to improve support and response times to the community?
(11:56:41 AM) sabdfl: DKcross: we can't provide direct financial support
(11:56:49 AM) sabdfl: we do try to provide common infrastructure solutions
(11:56:55 AM) jcastro: he means RT response time
(11:56:59 AM) sabdfl: but, in a community effort, we each contribute what we can
(11:57:00 AM) jcastro: I have noted it down to look into it
(11:57:23 AM) sabdfl: doing more there would mean doing less elsewhere, unless you can inspire more people to participate and contribute
(11:57:25 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:57:29 AM) jcastro: <homer> QUESTION: What's the chances of Canonical convincing Adobe to port Creative Suite?
(11:57:55 AM) sabdfl: homer: it is possible if we can show that enough people will buy it to make it worthwhile for them
(11:57:57 AM) sabdfl: next?
(11:58:30 AM) sabdfl: phew, fingers now more than warm :-)
(11:58:41 AM) sabdfl: jcastro: is that a wrap? we have a little more time
(11:58:51 AM) jcastro: sabdfl: it's a 2 hour session
(11:59:07 AM) sabdfl: ok cool
(11:59:21 AM) jcastro: but we can take 5 for everyone's fingers to cool off?
(11:59:45 AM) sabdfl: okdokey
(11:59:59 AM) jcastro: ok everyone, take 5 and we'll be back with more questions!
(12:00:19 PM) jcastro: Please hold your questions until we start, and then if I haven't gotten to it please be patient and repeat it, thanks!
(12:02:30 PM) sabdfl: ok
(12:04:19 PM) jcastro: ok, welcome back everyone
(12:04:28 PM) sabdfl: fire awa
(12:04:29 PM) sabdfl: y
(12:04:30 PM) jcastro: <gtomy> QUESTION: Mark, what is your recipe for financial, and business success? What is the key of succes in your opinion?
(12:05:11 PM) sabdfl: doing the things you are passionate about
(12:05:21 PM) sabdfl: i was reading in new scientist about training and sports
(12:05:33 PM) sabdfl: basically, they were saying that the people who are successful are the people who love to train
(12:05:35 PM) sabdfl: makes sense
(12:05:41 PM) sabdfl: i think that's true of everything
(12:05:51 PM) sabdfl: if it feels like PLAY to you, you'll do it a lot, and then you are training
(12:06:03 PM) sabdfl: nobody can tell you what the Next Big Thing is
(12:06:20 PM) sabdfl: if you're interested in that, don't listen to the headlines, they are too late by far
(12:06:32 PM) mode (-o cody-somerville ) by ChanServ
(12:06:34 PM) sabdfl: just find the thing you are most interested in
(12:06:39 PM) sabdfl: and find a way to make a life out of that
(12:06:55 PM) sabdfl: you will do better at it, measuring better by "mastery and fulfillment"
(12:07:08 PM) sabdfl: then don't read adverts that tell you better is anything else
(12:07:13 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:07:16 PM) jcastro: <sirderigo> QUESTION: what do you think about developing a web-base configuration tool for both desktop and server?
(12:07:30 PM) sabdfl: i think there are quite a few efforts to achieve that
(12:07:33 PM) sabdfl: e-box?
(12:07:50 PM) sabdfl: it's not an area i would invest in
(12:07:57 PM) sabdfl: but if you're interested in it, go for it!
(12:07:59 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:08:01 PM) jcastro: <drw_> QUESTION: Are there any plans to incorporate GNOME-Do into the desktop?
(12:08:12 PM) sabdfl: isn't it already there?
(12:08:33 PM) sabdfl: i saw it on a fresh UNR install recently, so thought it was there by default
(12:08:54 PM) sabdfl: it's great work, the project leader is now on the design team working on Ayatana
(12:09:00 PM) sabdfl: so, expect more good stuff
(12:09:02 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:09:04 PM) jcastro: <LaserJock> QUESTION: How important is it that Ubuntu has a quality education offering? Are schools, students, and children the way to gain mainstream adoption of Ubuntu?
(12:09:19 PM) sabdfl: yes, i think education is important
(12:09:30 PM) sabdfl: i wish we saw more participation in edubuntu, and adoption of it directly
(12:09:47 PM) sabdfl: there are many enormous deployments of ubuntu for education, but they tend to use vanilla ubuntu and then customise it themselves
(12:10:09 PM) sabdfl: perhaps this is an area that will open up again in future as more governments get serious about free software
(12:10:10 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:10:21 PM) jcastro: <camahuetos> QUESTION: What are the consecuenses for Canonical and Ubuntu ofthe agreement between Microsoft and Garmin about Fat32 thinking about the one thing everybody is talking about: Mono and Microsoft patents over some core technologies behind it?
(12:10:52 PM) sabdfl: i think Linux was not the main focus of that dispute
(12:11:16 PM) sabdfl: so, we have yet to see how it would work out in court, or what's important to Microsoft
(12:11:43 PM) sabdfl: i don't see any benefit to Microsoft in launching an IP assault
(12:11:59 PM) sabdfl: they are far more vulnerable to an IP war than most companies
(12:12:10 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:12:24 PM) jcastro: <oldman> QUESTION: are there any plans to offer landscape as a service that can be deployed internally in the enterprise? (rather than requiring external access to canonical)
(12:12:47 PM) sabdfl: yes, there are three beta sites for that
(12:13:12 PM) sabdfl: contact if you want to know more
(12:13:13 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:13:23 PM) jcastro: <lukeen1> QUESTION: what about a seperated LTS version? so normal users have the latest software while LTS-users get more stability.
(12:13:54 PM) sabdfl: lukeen1: by separated, you mean, a different timing?
(12:14:00 PM) jcastro: I think so
(12:14:07 PM) sabdfl: something released outside the normal 6-month cycle?
(12:14:16 PM) sabdfl: we already do many things differently in an LTS cycle
(12:14:20 PM) sabdfl: they are subtle but important
(12:14:35 PM) sabdfl: and I am hoping that we will see broad community interest in the idea of LTS releases, especially upstream
(12:14:57 PM) sabdfl: hence
(12:15:22 PM) sabdfl: i would encourage you to discuss that with key upstreams you are interested in, to see if THEY are willing to converge around an LTS cycle
(12:15:33 PM) sabdfl: that's the only way to address this, properly
(12:15:35 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:15:36 PM) jcastro: <zoopster> QUESTION: How do you see the new Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud competing in the enterprise against the likes of 3Tera and Abiquo?
(12:16:11 PM) sabdfl: i think many management infrastructures (rightscale etc) can work with UEC
(12:16:19 PM) sabdfl: I assume 3Tera and Abiquo could do the same
(12:16:35 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:16:38 PM) jcastro: <tgm4883> QUESTION: What are your thoughts on adding a media center app (xbmc, elisa, boxee, etc) to the live CD.  Is the problem a space issue or something else?
(12:17:05 PM) sabdfl: i haven't been part of any discussions about that, so am not well briefed :-)
(12:17:19 PM) sabdfl: i don't know what the constraints are. has there been a UDS discussion about that before?
(12:17:36 PM) jcastro: I don't think so
(12:17:37 PM) jcastro: there are a bunch of media center things
(12:17:37 PM) ***jcastro notes it down
(12:17:38 PM) sabdfl: if not, I would suggest proposing it for UDS-Barcelona and leading the discussion
(12:17:42 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:17:45 PM) jcastro: <drw_> QUESTION: What do you think is the biggest weakness of 9.04?
(12:18:00 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:18:07 PM) jcastro: <zoopster> QUESTION: Are their plans on integrating Opennebula with Eucalyptus? or doing more with Opennebula?
(12:18:12 PM) sabdfl: erk
(12:18:25 PM) sabdfl: missed the previous q
(12:18:33 PM) sabdfl: biggest weakness of 9.04?
(12:18:56 PM) sabdfl: some graphics driver glitches, and the fact that we never got kerneloops in
(12:19:02 PM) sabdfl: but nothing major
(12:19:20 PM) sabdfl: 9.10 will be a little crazy, with graphical boot and big changes to X
(12:19:28 PM) sabdfl: so i'm glad 9.04 is so solid
(12:19:35 PM) sabdfl: opennebula...
(12:19:42 PM) sabdfl: i know the server team is looking at it in detail
(12:19:56 PM) sabdfl: it would be important to have great collaboration between eucalyptus and opennebula if we decided to do that
(12:20:13 PM) sabdfl: UDS will be the place for detailed discussion and decisions on that front
(12:20:14 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:20:17 PM) jcastro: QUESTION: Mark, you can send the disk with Ubuntu 9.10, or 10.04 with his autograph to me? Please
(12:20:18 PM) jcastro: :)
(12:20:40 PM) sabdfl: come to UDS and I'll happily autograph a CD there :-)
(12:20:41 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:20:43 PM) jcastro: <tgm4883> QUESTION:  Is there work being done with companies (I'm looking at you Dell) to offer Ubuntu at the same time as Windows?  I still can't get a mini 10 with ubuntu on it.
(12:20:57 PM) sabdfl: yes, that is coming
(12:21:02 PM) sabdfl: but it's a huge effort
(12:21:34 PM) sabdfl: you can, however, get a version of Ubuntu that is not a complete resource hog, or 6 years old :-)
(12:21:36 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:21:38 PM) jcastro: <boredandblogging> QUESTION: where do you see the netbook market headed? are there vendors expected to roll out UNR?
(12:22:01 PM) sabdfl: boredandblogging: a few more vendors will announce UNR devices, that i'm aware of
(12:22:04 PM) sabdfl: which is great
(12:22:24 PM) sabdfl: it's turned out to be very popular with people who have bought devices that had various custom versions of linux on it
(12:22:53 PM) sabdfl: we are actively developing it, and adding features which will be unique to the vendors when they ship, but which will then migrate into the subsequent Ubuntu releases
(12:23:01 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:23:03 PM) jcastro: <zaidka> QUESTION: As software gets bigger and bigger, when do you think Ubuntu will ditch the live CD and go for a live DVD
(12:23:20 PM) sabdfl: zaidka: the discipline of the CD has served us well
(12:23:31 PM) sabdfl: i think USB sticks are more interesting than DVD's, personally
(12:23:58 PM) sabdfl: if we could put everything on, we would not have such interesting choices to make :-)
(12:23:59 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:24:03 PM) jcastro: <rabbit251> jcastro: QUESTION: Do you see Wine (and Windows-compatibilty in general) or native Linux ports as the more important ingredient in the success of Ubuntu, or do they each play an important role?
(12:24:18 PM) sabdfl: they both play an important role
(12:24:30 PM) sabdfl: but fundamentally, the free software ecosystem needs to thrive on its own rules
(12:24:41 PM) sabdfl: it is *different* to the proprietary software universe
(12:24:54 PM) sabdfl: we need to make a success of our own platform on our own terms
(12:25:08 PM) sabdfl: if Linux is just another way to run Windows apps, we can't win
(12:25:13 PM) sabdfl: OS/2 tried that
(12:25:15 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:25:17 PM) jcastro: <nixternal> jcastro: QUESTION: Do you think Kubuntu is a blue headed step child that every seems to think it is? If not, can you put the rumours to rest, with possibly a song or a lovely poem letting everyone know just how much you really love us over in the Kubuntu community?
(12:25:31 PM) sabdfl: oh dea
(12:25:32 PM) sabdfl: r
(12:25:53 PM) sabdfl: this question makes me rather sad, because i don't know what else i could do
(12:26:09 PM) sabdfl: i worked out the other day that i personally spend more than $2m a year supporting Kubuntu and KDE
(12:26:20 PM) sabdfl: and yet those communities think it's cool to act unloved
(12:26:40 PM) sabdfl: i think the Kubuntu community's work is amazing, and they should be proud of it
(12:27:07 PM) sabdfl: there's no need to make out like it's against the forces of corporate indifference
(12:27:19 PM) sabdfl: when in fact I and many others bend a long way to make it possible
(12:27:25 PM) sabdfl: that's about enough on the subject
(12:27:27 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:27:29 PM) jcastro: <rrnwexec> QUESTION: What would you say is the biggest barrier to widespread Ubuntu adoption? (By widespread, I mean a market share >30%)
(12:27:57 PM) sabdfl: delivering an amazing end user experience
(12:28:15 PM) sabdfl: ubuntu is good enough for those of us who choose it, as it gets better, more will choose it
(12:28:41 PM) sabdfl: our weakest points are the basic user experience (it feels fragmented and disjointed sometimes)
(12:28:47 PM) sabdfl: multimedia because of patents
(12:28:55 PM) sabdfl: and hardware support
(12:29:09 PM) sabdfl: i'm working on user experience with the Ayatana team
(12:29:21 PM) sabdfl: and hardware support is improving steadily as industry learns to love linux
(12:29:25 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:29:28 PM) jcastro: <thegrieve_> jcastro: QUESTION: If for some crazy and unimaginable  reason, the use of the words ubuntu and canonical  (and all associated branding) was no longer  possible, what would you like to rename the company/distro
(12:29:45 PM) sabdfl: Wonderful and Wonderful, Inc
(12:29:47 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:29:57 PM) jcastro: <dantalizing> jcastro: QUESTION: Are there plans for Ubuntu Server certifications, or to expand the existing Ubuntu Certified Professional program?
(12:30:07 PM) sabdfl: yup
(12:30:40 PM) sabdfl: the server is the focus of a set of new training programs
(12:30:47 PM) sabdfl: virtual training courses are available
(12:31:06 PM) sabdfl:
(12:31:08 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:31:09 PM) jcastro: <snap-l> QUESTION: A lot of Ubuntu developers are on Do you have an account, and if not, would you create one and start using it?
(12:31:19 PM) sabdfl: i have one but i forgot the password
(12:31:30 PM) sabdfl: i tweet, rarely, as sabdfl
(12:31:32 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:31:34 PM) jcastro: <drw_> QUESTION: Will Ubuntu only truly begin to compete with the likes of Apple when the project can dictate hardware specs to manufacturers?  Is catering for so many different forms of hardware a realistic approach long-term?
(12:32:06 PM) sabdfl: yes, i think we need to work with the full range of hardware, not narrow the focus to a subset as Apple does
(12:32:13 PM) sabdfl: it works well for them, don't think it would work for us
(12:32:23 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:32:26 PM) jcastro: QUESTION: In the USA, the power of the Lobbyist in the government is very strong.  Do you know of any equal organizations that use Lobbyist to influence politics to a Open Source direction?
(12:32:29 PM) sabdfl: amber, is that you?
(12:32:43 PM) jcastro: I don't think it is
(12:32:52 PM) sabdfl: koinkidink
(12:33:22 PM) sabdfl: it's true that government policy is largely driven by established interest groups
(12:33:29 PM) sabdfl: that's true all over the world, as a rule
(12:34:06 PM) sabdfl: unfortunately, those who have been successful in the past are better positioned to try to defend that, than those who might be successful in the future are positioned to keep the playing field level
(12:34:25 PM) sabdfl: so, patents get extended, copyright gets extended, open source gets pushed back
(12:34:42 PM) sabdfl: but a good idea can't be kept down indefinitely
(12:34:56 PM) sabdfl: so, we just need to focus on delivering incrementally better releases
(12:34:58 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:35:21 PM) jcastro:  Does Canonical have plans for Kubuntu QA, similar to the work that Ara is doing now?
(12:35:45 PM) sabdfl: if we had a partner wanting to do a Kubuntu-based device, then we would
(12:36:09 PM) sabdfl: i believe the the process is open, and hope community members would step up for Kubuntu if it were important to them
(12:36:11 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:36:15 PM) jcastro: <T0m4rn0ld> QUESTION: What is your favorite FOSS game?
(12:36:23 PM) sabdfl: nethack! never ascended.
(12:36:24 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:36:25 PM) jcastro: we're down to a few more
(12:36:34 PM) jcastro:  <homer> QUESTION: Vim or Emacs?
(12:36:49 PM) sabdfl: vim!
(12:36:50 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:36:56 PM) jcastro: <leviathan_> QUESTION: I'm working in a lot of projects, for exemple Debian, Gentoo, OpenMoko, etc. and they have all one problem: they loose their developers to Ubuntu and his community. This community is more an more sponsered by commercial enterprises like IBM and SUN. Is it possible that the whole OpenSourceCommunity around linux could get commercialized trough Ubuntu?
(12:37:31 PM) sabdfl: i'm not sure i understand the question
(12:37:51 PM) jcastro: I will ask a rephrase
(12:38:00 PM) jcastro: <boredandblogging> QUESTION: whats going to be the next big thing after the cloud?
(12:38:15 PM) sabdfl: (05:04:55 PM) sabdfl: nobody can tell you what the Next Big Thing is
(12:38:23 PM) sabdfl: not even me :-)
(12:38:24 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:38:25 PM) jcastro: heh
(12:38:27 PM) jcastro: <BUGabundo> QUESTION: once on google, you said Canonical planed to drop support to Ubuntu from 90% to 10%. how is that going? Are there more companies and Communities behind it now then there where 3 years ago?
(12:39:13 PM) sabdfl: if you mean, that Canonical would be a smaller part of the Ubuntu ecosystem, yes, there are now more companies that participate
(12:39:19 PM) sabdfl: but Canonical remains by far the biggest
(12:40:02 PM) sabdfl: there are many more companies USING ubuntu now, but few providing dedicated developers or contributors in other areas
(12:40:07 PM) sabdfl: we'll have to see how that unfolds
(12:40:09 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:40:11 PM) jcastro: <aquarius> QUESTION: deals with big companies (Dell, Toshiba, etc) to sell machines with Ubuntu on are great; is there anything the community can do to help with that (other than "make Ubuntu fantastic!") or does it need to be all conference room discussions between partners and Canonical?
(12:40:53 PM) sabdfl: buy the machines and encourage others to do the same. nothing will accelerate it more than commercial success for the hardware companies who do take the Ubuntu plunge.
(12:40:55 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:40:59 PM) jcastro: <homer> QUESTION: Do you plan to ever go public with Canonical
(12:41:20 PM) sabdfl: that's one option, yes, but it's not in any way a focus for me now
(12:41:22 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:41:27 PM) jcastro: <popey> QUESTION: Recent surveys indicate that of those switching from XP but _not_ to Windows 7, 27% would go to OSX and 25% would go to Ubuntu, with Red Hat, Suse, and others below. What do we need to do to overtake OSX?
(12:41:37 PM) sabdfl: 2%?
(12:41:44 PM) sabdfl: ;-)
(12:41:46 PM) mode (+o popey ) by ChanServ
(12:41:51 PM) mode (-o popey ) by popey
(12:41:52 PM) sabdfl: i thought that was an AMAZING result, btw
(12:42:03 PM) sabdfl: credit to the whole community for that
(12:42:12 PM) sabdfl: mostly, i think we need to stand up and be proud
(12:42:25 PM) sabdfl: encourage all of our family and friends to make the switch to free software and promise to stand by them throughout
(12:42:33 PM) sabdfl: since WE are mostly the people who support them, anyhow :-)
(12:42:46 PM) sabdfl: we do need to deliver classy, tight, useful software
(12:42:56 PM) sabdfl: so bring the lessons of Web 2.0 to the desktop
(12:43:03 PM) sabdfl: lean, mean, fast and easy to use
(12:43:07 PM) sabdfl: and we will do well
(12:43:08 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:43:09 PM) jcastro: <greg-g> QUESTION: I think it is a good thing that Canonical Inc. doesn't inject its services into the community very much (keeping the corporate out of the community, at least visibly, is good), but that means that some IT managers, out of ignorance, don't use Ubuntu because there is no commercial support contracts.  How do we harmonize the two?
(12:44:01 PM) sabdfl: greg-g: if anyone says they would be more interested in ubuntu if there was support, point them at
(12:44:24 PM) sabdfl: we are reworking the Canonical web site, and then will get to the Ubuntu web site, and yes, we could make this supported element clearer
(12:44:45 PM) sabdfl: we have to do that without compromising the community involvement in Ubuntu - it's not just a Canonical effort
(12:44:49 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:45:06 PM) jcastro: waiting for a question ...
(12:45:16 PM) jcastro: <dinda> QUESTION:  Kindle sales jumped through the roof when selected as one of Oprah's favorite things - when will we see you promoting Ubuntu on the Oprah TV show?  can we send her a Netbook with UNR?
(12:45:17 PM) sabdfl: anything more from leviathan_?
(12:45:26 PM) sabdfl: what a great idea :-)
(12:45:28 PM) sabdfl: go for it!
(12:45:39 PM) jcastro: <leviathan_> QUESTION: in the debian community were creating packaged, which get taken by ubuntu. visversa we get packeges back, but with a low quality. don't you think its on the time to get some standarts into ubuntu?
(12:46:19 PM) sabdfl: leviathan_: spelling standards?
(12:46:36 PM) sabdfl: i think your question is based on the assumption that ubuntu == bad
(12:46:48 PM) sabdfl: if you see the world through a filter, you will only see things that agree with that filter
(12:47:17 PM) sabdfl: in your previous question, I *think* you were saying that "ubuntu is bad because lots of developers are moving to ubuntu from other projects"
(12:47:29 PM) sabdfl: so, i don't know how to engage with you
(12:47:46 PM) sabdfl: i feel ubuntu provides a fantastic service to the free software community as a whole
(12:48:16 PM) sabdfl: as Tridge said, hundreds of thousands of free software developers get to work on their software without ever having to think about the OS, because Ubuntu makes it easy
(12:48:23 PM) sabdfl: i think that's valuable, and i'm proud of it
(12:48:48 PM) sabdfl: as for quality, well, I know the team cares enormously about quality, and work insanely hard to achieve that
(12:49:34 PM) sabdfl: the QA processes in Ubuntu make me proud, the QA team are fantastic, the bugsquad are unstoppable, the Bug Days and Hug Days are what make this project a pleasure to be part of
(12:49:58 PM) sabdfl: if you've decided that it suits your view of the world to say that "Ubuntu is bad", then so be it
(12:50:11 PM) sabdfl: but, if that's not true then you are doing yourself a disservice
(12:51:00 PM) sabdfl: this would be a more interesting discussion if you could speak in this channel i just realised :-)
(12:51:11 PM) sabdfl: so, feel free to privmsg me and we can talk further
(12:51:24 PM) sabdfl: but, in summary, this community cares about free software and about quality
(12:51:41 PM) sabdfl: and i would encourage you to look for real evidence if people say otherwise
(12:51:46 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:51:49 PM) jcastro: <akgraner> QUESTION:  Would Canonical ever consider employing upstream developers for the areas that Ubuntu considers key like wireless or graphics?
(12:51:59 PM) jcastro: a few more so we have time to reset the channel for Docs Day!
(12:52:10 PM) sabdfl: yes, we have done so in the past and have job offers out for additional posts too
(12:52:14 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:52:22 PM) jcastro: <txwikinger_work> Question: How do you think more and more FLOSS developer can be able to do what they are passionate about while also provide for their families. Do you think there are more opportunities employed and as entrepreneurs for this?
(12:52:38 PM) jcastro: one more after this ...
(12:53:06 PM) sabdfl: i think y ou can get paid more if you advertise Linux skills than if you advertise Windows skills
(12:53:16 PM) sabdfl: it's certainly a premium offering
(12:53:46 PM) sabdfl: if you are passionate about FLOSS, then i would definitely urge you to work on, or with, free software in your day job
(12:53:54 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:53:57 PM) jcastro: <Froad_> QUESTION: A new announcement by Microsoft says there will be Open Office support in Office 2007, do you think that one way to gain users is to make Microsoft Adapt to us?
(12:54:19 PM) sabdfl: Froad_: i'm glad that they will do this, but i hear the support is terrible
(12:54:29 PM) sabdfl: i think we should rather push harder for open document standards
(12:54:51 PM) sabdfl: the ISO standards process was embarrassing last year
(12:55:06 PM) sabdfl: we have this amazing thing - the web - built entirely on an open format
(12:55:13 PM) sabdfl: and yet .doc lives in the dark ages
(12:55:35 PM) sabdfl: purely because governments and companies chickened out of demanding that openness
(12:55:51 PM) sabdfl: if we demand openness, then we'll get a better long term result
(12:55:54 PM) sabdfl: next?
(12:55:59 PM) jcastro: that's all we have time for
(12:56:02 PM) jcastro: any last comments?
(12:56:06 PM) sabdfl: phew
(12:56:10 PM) sabdfl: this was fun
(12:56:13 PM) sabdfl: thanks everyone!

MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/AskMark (last edited 2009-04-28 18:01:41 by pool-70-16-48-183)