Ubuntu Wiki

   1 [15:59] <jcastro> up next is going to be MagicFab
   2 [16:00] <jcastro> MagicFab, introduce yourself and take it away!
   3 [16:00] <MagicFab> Hi all!
   4 [16:01] <MagicFab> Sorry I am a bit late. That's my trademark :)
   5 [16:01] <jcastro> you're actually 2 minutes early!
   6 [16:01] <MagicFab> I suppose questions will be filteredthrough -chat as last time ?
   7 [16:01] <jcastro> yep
   8 [16:01] <jcastro> just paste them in here and answer
   9 [16:02] <MagicFab> k
  10 [16:02] <MagicFab> So, hi again, thanks to all for showing up - lots of people! Fabian Rodriguez here. I work at Canonical's Global Support Services center in Montreal, Canada as a senior support analyst and technical trainer for support & server stuff since November 2006 - so 3 years now!. I am mostly interested in free technologies advocacy (including formats, content, licencing) & training for new users, with an emphasis on security.
  11 [16:03] <MagicFab> You can read more about me here:
  12 [16:03] <MagicFab> http://launchpad.net/~magicfab and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FabianRodriguez
  13 [16:03] <MagicFab> of course I love sharing so I also have these for you all:
  14 [16:03] <MagicFab> http://identi.ca/magicfab
  15 [16:03] <MagicFab> http://delicious.com/magicfab
  16 [16:04] <MagicFab> I hope I get some very hard questions today :)
  17 [16:04] <MagicFab> jcastro, is anyone pasting the questions or should I ?
  18 [16:04] <jcastro> you should. :D
  19 [16:05] <MagicFab> I am very interested in the cultural notion that "the computer guy" is always sucked into supporting family & friends for free, with high expectations. I want to beat that and help you convince people that they can handle Ubuntu by themselves. Heck, my parents do!
  20 [16:05] <MagicFab> ok tx
  21 [16:05] <MagicFab> Empower your new Ubuntu converts or prospects to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.
  22 [16:05] <MagicFab> Empower your new Ubuntu converts or prospects to become autonomous and be part of the community (or not!) with some technical support power tricks and key, chosen URLs that will help quickly understand Ubuntu and free software.
  23 [16:06] <MagicFab> sorry ;)
  24 [16:06] <MagicFab> With that in mmind, I'll take quesitons and try to show some of my stuff along the way.
  25 [16:06]  * MagicFab checks questions
  26 [16:07] <MagicFab> Question : We heard that Teacher (Guru) arrives, when the Student (neighbour) is ready (or want it)
  27 [16:08] <MagicFab> scratch that, not sure what the question is.
  28 [16:08] <MagicFab> next...
  29 [16:08] <MagicFab> QUESTION: is there value in stopping being the Windows go-to guy?
  30 [16:09] <MagicFab> So yes, the value is in all the time you gain :) Go outside, meet other people..
  31 [16:09] <akgraner> <IdleOne> QUESTION: My father showed some interrest in linux just recently. I have been trying to decide if I should install a dual boot system for him or just go with Ubuntu and let him dive in head first. what do you think would be best?
  32 [16:09] <MagicFab> I remember being the Windows power user... it wears you a lot. It's much more fullfiling to help people help themselves.
  33 [16:09] <MagicFab> akgraner, tx.
  34 [16:10] <MagicFab> IdleOne, I'd say go slowly. Dual boot, and default to Windows, leaving 20 seconds to choose in GRUB. That way it's there, available, and those 20 seconds beg the question: "why am I using Windows today? Should I ? ".
  35 [16:10] <MagicFab> When advocating Ubuntu or *any* free software, you'll notice it's much easier to **listen** and answers questions than to **propose** and impose information.
  36 [16:10] <MagicFab> Let him choose!
  37 [16:10] <MagicFab> Next ?
  38 [16:11] <akgraner> <gnomeye> QUESTION: How can you convince users to use OpenOffice, and not M$ Office 2007 / or to use pidgin/empathy instead of Windows Live Messenger etc.?
  39 [16:12] <MagicFab> You don't convince them. You use it everyday. You share your experience and good things / gains in time etc in your Facebook/ Twitter/Identica...
  40 [16:12] <MagicFab> Lead by example.
  41 [16:12] <MagicFab> This is similar to:
  42 [16:12] <MagicFab> How do you recommend overcoming the "Oh, it's not Windows" mentality?
  43 [16:12] <MagicFab> You don't! Don't be "the annoying Ubuntu guy/girl".
  44 [16:13] <MagicFab> Just DO IT. And every now and then, people will notice and ask questions by themselves.
  45 [16:13] <MagicFab> Remember, when someone asks you "what did you do this weekend" you can also say "well, I spent time with family, not rebuilding my Windows setup".
  46 [16:13] <MagicFab> build on your positive experiences, and share that as much as you can.
  47 [16:14] <MagicFab> I use Facebook *A lot* for that.
  48 [16:14] <MagicFab> :)
  49 [16:14] <MagicFab> next ?
  50 [16:14] <akgraner> <rrnwexec> QUESTION: How would you counter the tendency of friends/neighbours to compare Ubuntu to Windows?
  51 [16:15] <MagicFab> That's a good question. You can't compare it. Windows is an OS, period. Ubuntu is a whole ecosystem of things: a product, but also a project AND a huge community.
  52 === dad is now known as Guest64594
  53 [16:15] <MagicFab> PLUS thousands of free apps. ALL FREE. You can build your home server or your enterprise infrastrutcure from ground up for $0000
  54 [16:15] <MagicFab> How can you compare that ? you can't. But if someone insists, I would always provide "homwork".
  55 [16:16] <MagicFab> Here's this simple rule: don't put the weight on you to explain things.
  56 [16:16] <MagicFab> Don't underestimate people's ability to understand. Show them media coverage, informative sites.
  57 [16:16] <MagicFab> One that I love is http://getgnulinux.org ! That's my #1 advocacy tool.
  58 [16:17] <MagicFab> I guess it's easier to ask people what they need, and then "become availabel" but
  59 [16:17] <MagicFab> I MUST INSIST!!! Don't become the annoying Ubuntu person.
  60 [16:17] <MagicFab> Let them come to you.
  61 [16:17] <MagicFab> next ?
  62 [16:17] <akgraner> <hRedBeard> QUESTION: When introducing a user to Ubuntu, how do you overcome the stigma associated with the word "Free".
  63 [16:18] <MagicFab> What stigma ? Everyone loves free. I actually seldom mention the Freedom component of Ubuntu. To me it's a natural thing that enables Ubuntu and other free software.
  64 [16:19] <MagicFab> In fact people will ask "how is all of this possible!!" (read above "how can you compare this") and then you can say "because many people value Freedom".
  65 [16:19] <MagicFab> I avoid the political/ philosophical discussion, because, well, the link I gave above provide plenty of that.
  66 [16:20] <MagicFab> ** FOCUS ** on becoming avaiulable to refer to other resources. For example the LoCo Team in your area...
  67 [16:20] <MagicFab> It's very tempting to become the Ubuntu Star of your city/place/school/workplace.. :)
  68 [16:20] <MagicFab> But I assure you, that only scales so much :D
  69 [16:21] <MagicFab> I read on the chat channel: if anyone so much as starts arguing "this can't be, how do you make money" and you don't know the answer... politely dismiss it, "I don't know! but it wokrs for me sinc...."
  70 [16:21] <MagicFab> that;'s a valid answer too.
  71 [16:22] <MagicFab> And honestly I focus on people that are really interested.
  72 [16:22] <MagicFab> I'll tell you this anecdote. I worked at a BIG retailer in a calling center. We had 3 minutes to close a phone sale. Then the system hung up and passed the next call.
  73 [16:23] <MagicFab> If anyones' not receptive to Free software/Ubuntu in a few minutes, don't worry. Plenty are and waiting for your input.
  74 [16:23] <MagicFab> And in fact people become more curious or inquisitive when you *listen* instead of *talking* all the time.
  75 [16:24] <MagicFab> I have to give credit to my wife for that simple for HUGE tip which appolies to many other things in life :D
  76 [16:25] <MagicFab> A few choise links will help anyone advoctaing Ubuntu. But I am surprised almost no one of the advocates I know refer to official documentation or build on it.
  77 [16:26] <MagicFab> https://help.ubuntu.com/ comes to mind! If you haven't looked at it, you should.
  78 [16:26] <akgraner> <dscassel> QUESTION: You convince a non-technical friend to install Ubuntu and suspend and wifi don't work. Where do we go from here?  Can we still be friends?
  79 [16:27] <MagicFab> dscassel, you NEVER convince anyone of anything. They BEG you to do it.
  80 [16:27] <MagicFab> That being said, you NEVER install Ubuntu without checking with a Live CD first. Ever.
  81 [16:28] <MagicFab> Hardware is unsupported ? Tough luck. Next "customer' !
  82 [16:28] <akgraner> <rrnwexec> QUESTION: Do you sense that a significant part of the Ubuntu community is still trying to "sell fish" rather that "teaching people how to fish" when it comes to support?
  83 [16:28] <MagicFab> You need to serialize your advocacy. Focus, focus, focus. Build your nieghbor's knowledge, train other "Gurus".
  84 [16:28] <MagicFab> What is a Guru ?  akgraner and others loved this phrase I often use: "Everyone's someone else's guru"
  85 [16:29] <MagicFab> Last week I gave this notion some thought
  86 [16:29] <MagicFab> And many people complained at the Release party that it was the only time we met face to fcae.. .every 6 months!!!
  87 [16:29] <MagicFab> So I started the Ubuntu Hour: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
  88 [16:30] <MagicFab> Sometimes we want to seek helping people that know nothing about Ubuntu when the reality is other that know just a bit more than nothing are our neighbors and can't go to the next step!
  89 [16:30] <MagicFab> To you I say: start some simple, local. Heck, it's even eco=friendly! Make yourself available, but set limits.
  90 [16:31] <MagicFab> Give homework, and point to official docs & resources., build on them. See the pattern ?
  91 [16:31] <akgraner>  <openweek8_> Question: when I do an install for a new user a couple of the first questions are regarding audio and video messaging and iPods. While they do sort of work in Ubuntu, when will they really compete with Windows. That is where we lose a lot of newbies.
  92 [16:31] <MagicFab> hRedBeard asks:  QUESTION: Speaking of Support, again, in my experences, new users get very uneasy about having no support line to call.  Yes, there's free support, but typically they're looking for "who can I call for free because I bought the software" sort of support.  Providing neighborly support is fine, but many people seem to want someone at 3AM when something happens.  How do you recommend describing support options?
  93 [16:31] <MagicFab> ok, in order.
  94 [16:32] <MagicFab> Audio & video messaging: We're almost there, check Piding &*Empathy if youcare for freedom. If you don't, I hear Skype just works.
  95 [16:33] <MagicFab> You care so much about Ipods you won't use Ubuntu ? Sorry, I've personally have given up on anyone that has any attachment to Apple products.
  96 [16:33] <MagicFab> If that sound harsh, well, I am not sorry. *Choose your battles*
  97 [16:33] <MagicFab> Again, there's people out there without Ipods, can you believe that ? And their life is just fine! I focus on those.
  98 [16:34] <MagicFab> hRedBeard asked:  QUESTION: Speaking of Support, again, in my experences, new users get very uneasy about having no support line to call.  Yes, there's free support, but typically they're looking for "who can I call for free because I bought the software" sort of support.  Providing neighborly support is fine, but many people seem to want someone at 3AM when something happens.  How do you recommend describing support options?
  99 [16:34] <MagicFab> Commercial support is UNLIMITED and starts very cheap!!! Have you seen shop.canonical.com lately ?
 100 [16:34] <MagicFab> Here: http://shop.canonical.com/index.php?cPath=31_32
 101 [16:34] <MagicFab> Prices ?
 102 [16:35] <MagicFab> Starting at 54.99 $ /yr, unlimited... If that's not affordable, I don't know what is.
 103 [16:36] <MagicFab> Remember, you DONT NEED TO PAY to use Ubuntu at any time or at any level.
 104 [16:36] <akgraner> Solarion> QUESTION: how do you *stop* being "The annoying linux zealot"?
 105 [16:36] <MagicFab> 3AM means "24x7" support.
 106 [16:36] <MagicFab> That price is different! And believe me, when people notice the differene most will prefer waiting.
 107 [16:37] <MagicFab> Solarion, that's very easy. You literally *shut up*  when people talk about LInux / ubuntu etc.
 108 [16:37] <MagicFab> Solarion, yes, even at BestBuy, RadioShack, etc. You DONT focus on those. Remember, you make yourself aailable.
 109 [16:38] <MagicFab> If you really, really can't shut up you can say something like "hey did you know there's an Ubuntu user group here ? if you have any questions I can help *when I am not busy* ".. etc.
 110 [16:38] <MagicFab> set yourself to help people using 2 HARD, STRICT RULES:
 111 [16:38] <MagicFab> 1) You will only help for free if they ask in public (forums, chat, etc) so others can benefit
 112 [16:38] <MagicFab> 2) You will only do so when you can
 113 [16:39] <MagicFab> *NEVER* paint yourself in that "unlimited, 24x7, I-will-do-your-laundry-if-you-use-Ubuntu".
 114 [16:39] <MagicFab> Otherwise just as the "free stigma"... they will probably just think  you need friends or something. I 've been told that :)
 115 [16:39] <akgraner>  <hRedBeard> QUESTION: How do you explain the idea behind FOSS/Ubuntu/GPL without sounding like a "free for all hippie" <----I've been called that, believe it or not :]
 116 [16:40] <MagicFab> hRedBeard, again, YOU DON'T! just refer to public websites. Wikipedia helps a lot believe it or not.
 117 [16:40] <MagicFab> You can for exmaple mention  Google and yahoo use Linux in all their infrastructure.
 118 [16:41] <MagicFab> Surely they built a valid business on it, iddn't they ? Yes, there are hippies in every revolution. I believe this is one. But if someons doesn't, I can't care less. I go back to my previously mentioned rule. NEEEEEEEEEXT ! And others will be more interested in chatting about that.
 119 [16:41] <MagicFab> pmatulis, asks: QUESTION: On virtualization.  What would you recommend to a user who still needs Windows around?  VMWare, Virtualbox, KVM, or some other?  I hear KVM is pretty hot.
 120 [16:42] <MagicFab> pmatulis, 100% Virtual Box.
 121 [16:43] <akgraner>  QUESTION:  How do you make it clear to someone that  Ubuntu isn't only an operating system,  it's a community, and for that matter explain to them about software freedoms and why it matters.  Yes someone who thinks an OS isn't special at all,  and that it's for running the hardware and software and that's it.
 122 [16:43] <MagicFab> KVM is cool but is for a different audience. If you want to klnow why, see help.ubuntu.com, search for "VortualBox" and "KVM" separately. If you don't find the answer there, come back to me at http://webchat.freenode.net/?randomnick=1&channels=ubuntu-qc&prompt=1 I am on all weekedays.
 123 [16:44] <MagicFab> See ? I just did it!! Now pmatulis will probably search, while remaining my friend. Or he will actually insist and I will answer right away. But I gave him my opinion without patronizing "ohhhhhhh I know a lot!!! Let me set a weekend and we can taaaaaaalk!!!"
 124 [16:44] <MagicFab> oh and BTW my answer was "VirtualBox - if you need USB virtualization, use the non-free edition" :)
 125 [16:45] <MagicFab> I am surprised I see many non-technical questions. So I feel this is now a social, rather than technical problem (getting someone into Ubuntu) :)
 126 === jonny_ is now known as Guest41793
 127 [16:46] <MagicFab> One important thing, many new users or future possible users are intimidated by the "community"
 128 [16:46] <MagicFab> they see it as some private club. It's easy to forget it's not when you've been here for some time!!
 129 [16:47] <MagicFab> Helpful phrases like "you know, there is a strong worldwide community of Ubuntu users. We all go by the CoC...". Know you local team website.
 130 [16:47] <MagicFab> That helps.
 131 [16:47] <MagicFab> That leads to introducing the Local Community teams. When someone calls Canonical and they speak another language, for example, most of the time they can handle very basic English. Enough to show them https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList
 132 [16:47] <MagicFab> IN any other business I'd probably get fired!!
 133 [16:49] <MagicFab> I see a lot of "how do I convince" ? ... I forgot to tell... It depends on everyone. This is very personal, know what your story is. I explain why it's better for me and my wife who is a 1stgrade t4eacher. How I used to be a Windows power user. How I totally changed my career at age 33 and now this is where I am at.
 134 [16:49] <MagicFab> If you have a similar story, share that! People love stories.
 135 [16:49] <MagicFab> But leave the "you should install it" alone :)
 136 [16:51] <akgraner> <ubunfan> QUESTION: how do you suggest we impart knowledge into those comming from a system such as windows where they know the basics of staying safe there e.g. don't click on files with two file extensions, for ubuntu not running scripts any old person's posted as root ?
 137 [16:52] <MagicFab> ubunfan, in what context ? I wouldn't know. My context is Quebec francophone, I come from Colombia, speak 3 languages and most my friends and family share my values.
 138 [16:52] <MagicFab> I can scare the h* out of them with security stuff. Bottom line, no one can protect you from yourself, so there'not much to teach.
 139 [16:53] <akgraner> <ubunfan> MagicFab: as in scripts containg commands to remove / and such how do you provent users from running them
 140 [16:53] <MagicFab> The point I am making is, if you share values with people you are talking to, that discussion shouldn't happen. If you need to have that discussion, again, either say "I don't know" and document / research and come back or point to existing docs and articles.
 141 [16:54] <MagicFab> But most of all, ask to get specific, precise questions. Otherwise it becomes FUD, or it's a troll, in my opinion.
 142 [16:55] <akgraner> <dscassel> Question: You mention LoCos a lot, but some LoCos are more useful than others.  I don't want to put down the ubuntu-ca folks, but there's not a lot of LoCo presence in Southern Ontario.  How can we build that community?
 143 [16:55] <MagicFab> ubunfan, you can't prevent people from doing that. If you have people like that around you, I am sorry but I'd let them go. They are  not stupid! They will eventually find out about other options. And grow into them. and be more aware in secuirty... maybe start using Firefox in Windows and who knows, in a few months something else
 144 [16:55] <MagicFab> Flashblock/Noscript extensions come to mind but honestly there's not much you can do for those serial-clickers.
 145 [16:56] <MagicFab> dscassel, start small. http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour comes to mind. I mean REALLY small.
 146 [16:56] <MagicFab> get together with ONE person, and advertise that./
 147 [16:56] <MagicFab> Nothing stops you from having several locos in one place.
 148 [16:57] <MagicFab> we're almost out of time but I'll take some older questions:
 149 [16:57] <MagicFab> <rrnwexec> QUESTION: Do you sense that a significant part of the Ubuntu community is still trying to "sell fish" rather that "teaching people how to fish" when it comes to support?
 150 [16:57] <MagicFab> rrittenhouse, yes, definitely. That's a known bad habit, perhaps the thoughest to break.
 151 [16:58] <akgraner> <sebsebseb> QUESTION:   How do you get someone to use  the  Ubuntu install that is available to them instead of Windows on the same computer,  when  they think OS's aren't special and for just running hardware and software,  and probably won't even read about Ubuntu even if the article is from a news source that they like such as the BBC.
 152 [16:59] <MagicFab> I dont'say much to help others ! I ask them to join us on IRC, on the website. I remain available. I explain I don't like the "anti-Microsoft" tone out there, I remain ethical. I go by the CoC  (really !) - but I ask them to read a bit and *THEN* come back to me! They feel like I trust them to understand. And to my amazement, they do!
 153 [16:59] <MagicFab> sebsebseb, again, wrong audience. I'd say next! Choose your battles. I've seen people like that I literally vut any ties with and few months later they come back to me... don't waste your time!
 154 [17:00] <MagicFab> And the Ubuntu install is like step #20 in Ubuntu advocacy! Live CD is way before that and also making sure all hardware works..
 155 [17:00] <MagicFab> specially that expensive multifunction printer!!!
 156 [17:00] <jcastro> ok time!
 157 [17:00] <akgraner> Alrighty time for next Session...:-)
 158 [17:00] <MagicFab> They will hate you if I give you the magical recipe and their system then doesn't work :)
 159 [17:01] <MagicFab> Thanks to all who put up with this.
 160 [17:01] <jcastro> tyche, ok, introduce yourself, your session, and take it away!
 161 [17:01] <MagicFab> If anyone wants to follow up... join me on #ubuntu-qc all weekdays day time EST :)