Open Week -- Ask Mark -- Mark Shuttleworth -- Wed, May 5

EDT -5

[16:06] <sabdfl> hello everybody!
[16:06] <jcastro> alright!
[16:06] <jcastro> please introduce yourself and I'll start with the first question!
[16:07] <sabdfl> i'm mark shuttleworth, and delighted to be here
[16:07] <sabdfl> fire away
[16:07] <jcastro> QUESTION: Will Gnome Shell be in default Maverick? If so, what will happen with Gnome Shell and Compiz? Will Compiz still work by default? If not, will there be an easy way to use Compiz?
[16:07] <sabdfl> the current release schedule puts Gnome Shell out of bounds for Maverick, but it will be packaged and available from universe
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[16:08] <sabdfl> we'd encourage people to try it, and it would be great if someone put together a daily build PPA so folks who are very interested could track development and help fix bugs
[16:08] <sabdfl> it's very interesting work, and there are important new technologies, and lots of things to consider
[16:08] <sabdfl> the more folks use it and think about it, the better our decisions will be for 11.04
[16:08] <sabdfl> next?
[16:08] <jcastro> there is actually a daily ppa, someone please paste the url in -chat to share with others and we'll get it in the notes!
[16:08] <akgraner> <Xazax> QUESTION: Have you see this on brainstorm: (Solution 3, mockup) ? This would be a great feature, to select the software collection of ubuntu. And it would be extremely user friendly to have the chance to install an operating system wich support codecs, playing back dvd-s out of the box. I know it would break the current meta package system, so it would be a lot of work, but is there any
[16:08] <akgraner> chance to make it
[16:08] <sabdfl> looking...
[16:09] <sabdfl> hmm.... no
[16:09] <sabdfl> one of the really strong values we have is that two users of ubuntu should, by default, either be having the same experience, or be expert enough to understand why they are not
[16:10] <sabdfl> which is why we stick to *one* default browser
[16:10] <sabdfl> and *one* default mail client
[16:10] <sabdfl> that way, when two people who have out-of-the-box-vanilla ubuntu are talking to one another
[16:10] <sabdfl> they can say "i can't find my bookmark" and "oh, you find it there"
[16:10] <sabdfl> they can help each other, just talking about "the browser"
[16:10] <sabdfl> that has been very useful to help the community grow past experts, into a more consumer audience
[16:11] <sabdfl> if you are an expert, of course there is software centre, aptitude / synaptic, and PPA's
[16:11] <sabdfl> there's a whole world out there :-)
[16:11] <sabdfl> but for the beginning, out of the box experience, we benefit a lot from keeping it tight
[16:11] <sabdfl> it looks like a lot of work went into the design
[16:11] <sabdfl> and that's appreciated
[16:12] <sabdfl> and i wouldn't mind if someone built that and put it in universe
[16:12] <sabdfl> as a convenient way for people to make those choices
[16:12] <sabdfl> but we wouldn't take it in the installer, or default install
[16:12] <sabdfl> next!
[16:12] <jcastro> QUESTION: Are there any plans for Ubuntu to support Blu-ray movies so users can play them out-of-the-box?
[16:12] <sabdfl> aieee... i don't think that would be possible without proprietary software at the moment
[16:12] <sabdfl> i'll find out if anyone is building something like that
[16:12] <sabdfl> next!
[16:12] <akgraner> <jbicha> QUESTION: Do you have any comments about the reports that a lot of the Ubuntu rebranding work was done using proprietary design software on OS X?
[16:13] <sabdfl> it's true!
[16:13] <sabdfl> some of the artists who worked on it, work on both Mac and Ubuntu, and some of the work was done on Mac (and Windows)
[16:13] <sabdfl> c'est la vie, i don't think that detracts from the work at all
[16:13] <sabdfl> of course, the same people are helping to improve the tools on Ubuntu
[16:13] <sabdfl> and that feedback is useful
[16:14] <sabdfl> and they get teased about it a lot
[16:14] <sabdfl> but it doesn't undermine their efforts in my mind - i'm just glad to have such great people working on making it all better
[16:14] <sabdfl> next!
[16:14] <jcastro> QUESTION: Why are the window controls on the left?
[16:14] <sabdfl> to align with the future shape of the desktop
[16:14] <sabdfl> next!
[16:14] <akgraner> <YaManicKill> QUESTION: You talk about integrating the menubar into the panel in UNR. will this support apps such as firefox that don't use gtk widgets?
[16:14] <sabdfl> as soon as we can make that work, yes it will
[16:15] <sabdfl> both FF and OO.o have mechanisms to support that behaviour on Mac OS
[16:15] <sabdfl> we hope they will hook into the mechanisms we're building to do it on Ubuntu too
[16:15] <sabdfl> and we'll help that happen
[16:15] <sabdfl> if you're interested, talk with cody russell, who is bratsche
[16:15] <sabdfl> on irc
[16:15] <sabdfl> next!
[16:16] <jcastro> QUESTION: Canonical is pushing some significant changes in the desktop are with the Ayatana project, such changes will have impact on upstream developers, do you plan to actively support upstream developers performing  the required changes ?
[16:16] <sabdfl> yes of course!
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[16:16] <sabdfl> jcastro himself has lead one effort like that, with AppIndicators in 10.04 LTS
[16:16] <sabdfl> for which i am very grateful, as are the designers and other engineers who built it
[16:16] <sabdfl> thanks jorge :-)
[16:16] <sabdfl> in putting together that program, we did a couple of things:
[16:17] <jcastro> :)
[16:17] <sabdfl>  - we assessed the list of apps that used the systray
[16:17] <sabdfl>  - we developed APIs that would make it easy for them to use AppIndicators (mapping GtkMenu and the Qt equivalent, essentially)
[16:17] <sabdfl>  - we put together documentation
[16:17] <sabdfl>  - we emailed and irc'd with the upstreams to chat with them and get feedback on the design
[16:18] <sabdfl>  - and we had some folks just work up patches to submit upstream too
[16:18] <sabdfl> in all, it was a big effort
[16:18] <sabdfl> ted gould, jorge, mpt, cody, lots of people helped
[16:18] <sabdfl> folks from the community helped too
[16:18] <jcastro> like qense!
[16:18] <sabdfl> that's the pattern we will follow
[16:18] <sabdfl> if you have ideas about how we could do it better, chat with me or jcastro or jonobacon
[16:19] <sabdfl> but i'm bery bery happy with the work in 10.04 LTS and looking forward to 10.10
[16:19] <sabdfl> the big one for 10.10 in that vein, imo will be the global menu
[16:19] <sabdfl> but perhaps also windicators
[16:19] <sabdfl> next!
[16:19] <akgraner> <rrnwexec> randall in Vancouver asks: What are your thoughts on the "Linux" brand and the effect it has on the Ubuntu brand. Is it useful to try to bind the two?
[16:19] <sabdfl> linux is an awesome brand - it says powerful, freedom, evolving, energised, capable, cross-platform
[16:20] <sabdfl> for anybody who needs to hear those messages, it's the best
[16:20] <sabdfl> ubuntu says freedom, precision, reliability, collaboration
[16:20] <sabdfl> we don't say "ubuntu linux" because that would scope the message to the subset of both groups
[16:20] <sabdfl> but linux is at the heart of what we do, i don't think anybody is under any illusions about that
[16:21] <sabdfl> it grates a little when people say "ubuntu is linux", because of course the linux ecosystem is much bigger than just ubuntu
[16:21] <sabdfl> and everybody should try more of 'em: fedora, gentoo, arch, go wild
[16:21] <sabdfl> there's something for everyone
[16:21] <sabdfl> next!
[16:21] <jcastro> QUESTION,  From what I have been reading on the web, and even been told by people on IRC,  it seems quite a lot of experienced users aren't that happy with Ubuntu, and then  many of which are then using another distro instead or mainly instead, because of how things are going more commercial and Mac  OS X like for example.  Does it disappoint you that Ubuntu is starting to lose more of these kind of users?
[16:22] <sabdfl> thanks david stansby :-)
[16:22] <sabdfl> errr... not in connection with the question, though ;-)
[16:22] <sabdfl> so
[16:23] <sabdfl> i would like the most responsible, smartest, most fun, most inspired users to pick ubuntu, and that's what i and everyone else here works on
[16:23] <sabdfl> we build it for ourselves and we build it for others, equally
[16:23] <sabdfl> it has to meet our high standards, but it has to be useful for as many people as possible
[16:23] <sabdfl> sometimes, that means we leave out very cool stuff
[16:23] <sabdfl> i'm a fan of what you can to with gentoo, for example
[16:23] <sabdfl> there is no better way to learn, fast, how all the pieces fit together, and what's possible
[16:24] <sabdfl> and there are things that they can do that we can't
[16:24] <sabdfl> but i don't think that means that anyone who switches from ubuntu to gentoo is a sign that ubuntu isn't important, or worse, that ubuntu isn't interesting
[16:24] <sabdfl> it's just that there is something interesting there that they are interested in :-)
[16:25] <sabdfl> in summary: there will always be a flow of talent and energy into, and out of ubuntu
[16:25] <sabdfl> i'm happy for example when someone who is a member of ubuntu dev also becomes a DD
[16:25] <sabdfl> that's great for debian and great for us too
[16:25] <sabdfl> some people like to spin it otherwise, but it really isn't
[16:25] <sabdfl> it's a win for both projects
[16:26] <sabdfl> as for commercialism - ubuntu is MOST interesting precisely because we want to walk in that narrow space
[16:26] <sabdfl> with ethics, and openness, and transparency, and free software
[16:26] <sabdfl> AND with a commercial framework
[16:26] <sabdfl> if we can pull it off, the world is a fundamentally different place that day
[16:27] <sabdfl> i think most of the people who actually *participate* in ubuntu are motivated by that, understand that, aren't turned off by that
[16:27] <sabdfl> they want us to do it tastefully
[16:27] <sabdfl> but they want us to be successful
[16:27] <sabdfl> next!
[16:27] <akgraner> <txwikinger> QUESTION: Will Kubuntu/KDE have windicators, or will that be a Gnome only feature?
[16:27] <sabdfl> i hope they do
[16:27] <sabdfl> it will be straightforward to add to KWin if the maintainers see fit
[16:27] <sabdfl> and we'd likely add it in Kubuntu
[16:27] <sabdfl> so a Gnome app running on Kubuntu feels at home
[16:28] <sabdfl> of course, then the menu would be rendered *properly*,with Qt :-)
[16:28] <sabdfl> in my blog, i said that the work was enabled by CSD, which is incorrect
[16:28] <sabdfl> it was inspired by CSD - it was thinking about CSD that inspired the idea to give that space back to the applications
[16:28] <sabdfl> the actual implementation can be done via CSD or via the window manager
[16:29] <sabdfl> and in fact, we *need* to express the windicators on the d-bus, to support the global menu case
[16:29] <sabdfl> which is what the window managers could tap into
[16:29] <sabdfl> next!
[16:29] <jcastro> QUESTION: About the notification area removal plan, how do you plan to address those who need 3rd party closed applications which may not have moved, will the notification still be available but optional ?
[16:29] <sabdfl> to be clear: the indicators aren't going away
[16:30] <sabdfl> only the old implementation, the Gnome Systray
[16:30] <sabdfl> and it will happen in 10.10 for Ubuntu Netbook, and 11.04 for Ubuntu Desktop
[16:30] <sabdfl> there will not be a way to add it back in the netbook in 10.10
[16:30] <sabdfl> there *might* be a way to add it back in the desktop
[16:30] <sabdfl> in 11.04
[16:30] <sabdfl> but i suspect not
[16:30] <sabdfl> next!
[16:30] <akgraner> <bilalakhtar> QUESTION: There were plans to enable RGBA transparency support by default in Ubuntu Lucid, but that was delayed to Maverick. Will RGBA transparency be enabled by default in Maverick?
[16:31] <sabdfl> i expect so, there will of course be discussions on that at UDS next week, come along or listen in / irc in
[16:31] <sabdfl> we should be able to enable it early this time because everything is lined up, and just fix bugs
[16:31] <sabdfl> talk to bratsche
[16:31] <sabdfl> next!
[16:31] <jcastro> QUESTION: randall in Vancouver asks: What do you think can be done to improve clarity and volume on the message that "Ubuntu isn't only software"? In my experience, you can get software from almost anywhere, but only Ubuntu has that missing component: community. (For example, try finding a healthy Fedora user group in your city. I'm picking on them, but could probably pick on any other distro.)
[16:32] <sabdfl> don't pick on Fedora, it's doesn't help our relationship, and they are important in the broader community!
[16:32] <sabdfl> i agree with you, it's the added dimension of people that makes ubuntu great
[16:33] <sabdfl> more generally, it's the dimension of people that makes free software great
[16:33] <sabdfl> it's not just that you can find a library of code to solve your problem
[16:33] <sabdfl> it's that it comes with a mailing list of people interested in the same problem
[16:33] <sabdfl> *that*'s what makes FLOSS great
[16:33] <sabdfl> i think we could make it easier to connect with people who are using it / building it / building on it
[16:34] <sabdfl> that would be cool
[16:34] <sabdfl> why not put some ideas together for UDS, or for Jono et al?
[16:34] <sabdfl> next!
[16:34] <akgraner> <dscassel> QUESTION: Are there plans to release the data and results from usability studies so that they can be peer reviewed?  That feedback might be useful for other projects.
[16:34] <sabdfl> i *believe* that much of that data is already public
[16:35] <sabdfl> especially when we are doing user testing on specific projects, like empathy or pidgin
[16:35] <sabdfl> but the right person to chat with is charline in the canonical design team, or ivanka
[16:35] <sabdfl> next!
[16:35] <jcastro> QUESTION: Google clearly favors #ubuntu as development system for android are there plans to work together to bring the best experience with android devices to ubuntu (both developers and users)
[16:35] <sabdfl> that's interesting
[16:36] <sabdfl> i admire what google is doing with android, even though "it's linux, jim, but not as we know it" ;-)
[16:36] <sabdfl> i'd be supportive of getting android exposed on ubuntu in a way that was natural to both android devs and ubuntu
[16:36] <sabdfl> but i don't have any brilliant ideas or master plans to do that
[16:37] <sabdfl> just an open invitation to one / some / all of you to go ahead
[16:37] <sabdfl> next!
[16:37] <akgraner> <bilalakhtar> QUESTION: What are your opinions on Bug 527458 ( ) and the decision to deprecate tooltips from the panel indicators? Will tooltips come back in Maverick?
[16:37] <sabdfl> i've commented on the bug, for anyone who wants to read the thread there
[16:37] <sabdfl> in short, i think tooltips are most often a disaster
[16:38] <sabdfl> because there is a slot there, people put stuff in it
[16:38] <sabdfl> even if they don't have to
[16:38] <sabdfl> so we end up with a whole lot of really crap and useless tooltips that just clutter up the interface
[16:38] <sabdfl> and because they have tooltips, they don't do the extra work to think through the most important info to convey in the underlying asset
[16:38] <sabdfl> because hey, you can just stuff all the detail in a tooltip!
[16:39] <sabdfl> i've done it myself, in the past
[16:39] <sabdfl> i'm ashamed
[16:39] <sabdfl> but i'm cured
[16:39] <sabdfl> and so no, i don't think the tooltips will come back
[16:39] <sabdfl> but it's a 90% certainty for me, perhaps someone will convince me otherwise
[16:39] <sabdfl> but they'd have to convince a few other people, who might convince me :-)
[16:39] <sabdfl> next!
[16:39] <jcastro> QUESTION: The Edubuntu team has put a tremendous amount of work into Lucid, and has great plans for Maverick.  What do you want to see Canonical, as a company, do to promote the use of Edubuntu in schools?
[16:40] <sabdfl> we struggled with this inside Canonical
[16:40] <sabdfl> we're just not geared up to help at the individual school level
[16:40] <sabdfl> we did try a few projects
[16:40] <sabdfl> we also looked into working at the regional or national level
[16:40] <sabdfl> where there are *amazing* things happening with free software, often ubuntu
[16:41] <sabdfl> but those engagements looked more like "ubuntu in education" rather than "edubuntu" specifically
[16:41] <sabdfl> so for a while edubuntu slumped
[16:41] <sabdfl> now, it's re-energised, and that's entirely the credit of the community that's forming there
[16:41] <sabdfl> well done them
[16:41] <sabdfl> we can support that with time at conferences and integrating some of their requirements into the base
[16:41] <sabdfl> with pleasure
[16:42] <sabdfl> next!
[16:42] <akgraner> <ralemi> QUESTION: Are there more plans to port ubuntu to more handheld, mobile devices (phones, ebook readers, etc)
[16:42] <sabdfl> yes
[16:42] <sabdfl> very much so
[16:42] <sabdfl> there is a blooming, a blossoming, of linux in consumer electronics
[16:42] <sabdfl> and lots of the people building those devices want to use ubuntu
[16:43] <sabdfl> so, we're working on the things they say will make ubuntu even better for them
[16:43] <sabdfl> tools for building packages, collaborating, building images, etc for those sorts of environments
[16:43] <sabdfl> traditionally, people used very custom environments for those
[16:43] <sabdfl> but they'd prefer to use ubuntu
[16:44] <sabdfl> i'm confident people will love building devices with ubuntu
[16:44] <sabdfl> next!
[16:44] <jcastro> <QUESTION> Hello Mark, I wanted to ask what ideas you have for ubuntu manual, even if it has any kind of integration in Ubuntu.
[16:44] <sabdfl> what a great project
[16:44] <sabdfl> the key thing for me will be to see how they keep up with our pace of iterations
[16:44] <sabdfl> but i think they will, just fine
[16:45] <sabdfl> they have a lot of energy
[16:45] <sabdfl> and i'm very impressed with their work
[16:45] <sabdfl> if they have integration ideas, UDS would be the right place to pitch them
[16:45] <sabdfl> next!
[16:45] <akgraner> <rrnwexec> QUESTION: randall in Vancouver asks: What excites you most about the project these days? Which part of it gives you the most enjoyment and fun?
[16:45] <sabdfl> wow
[16:46] <sabdfl> well, i got a whole new job description this year :-)
[16:46] <sabdfl> so that's very energising
[16:46] <sabdfl> mainly i'm focused on the desktop
[16:46] <sabdfl> and how we reshape that
[16:46] <sabdfl> hence all the blogging
[16:46] <sabdfl> and watch out on Monday :-)
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[16:47] <sabdfl> we have a lot of work to do, if we want ubuntu to be popular from devices to the desktop
[16:47] <sabdfl> and i find that work fascinating - design, engineering, economics, all in one
[16:47] <sabdfl> i'm also spending quite a bit of time on the cloud computing front
[16:47] <sabdfl> ubuntu is hugely popular on the EC2 and Rackspace public clouds
[16:48] <sabdfl> so helping to make it even better for that is fun too
[16:48] <sabdfl> people are really innovating, there
[16:48] <sabdfl> and ubuntu's minimalist "jeos" is a great base
[16:49] <sabdfl> i think we can really unleash system administrators, if we get things lined up just right
[16:49] <sabdfl> next!
[16:49] <jcastro> QUESTION: A while back it was mentioned that Ubuntu had plans for Moblin. Now that Moblin and Maemo merged to form MeeGo, what are Ubuntu's plans with the MeeGo platform? If so, will there be any overlap between MeeGo and Ubuntu netbook Edition?
[16:49] <sabdfl> quite possibly, but it's unclear at this stage
[16:49] <sabdfl> we're not boing to do an Ubuntu Moblin Edition, after all
[16:50] <sabdfl> i think Intel is doing great work, as are the old Maemo team, and their combined effort is important
[16:50] <sabdfl> but there's still a lot of dust in the air, as to how the pieces all fit together
[16:50] <sabdfl> we collaborate at many different levels
[16:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <sabdfl> and i'd like to see more of what they are building, before i could form a firm impression of how we could collaborate more closely
[16:51] <sabdfl> next!
[16:51] <akgraner> <Xazax> QUESTION: Is there any chance for nautilus elementary becoming default? It looks great, and would highly improve user experinece.
[16:51] <sabdfl> i haven't seen it, but it seems to be generating a lot of excitement
[16:51] <sabdfl> is it packaged?
[16:52] <jcastro> there is a session for improving nautilus for UDS
[16:52] <jcastro> I am sure elementary will be brought up
[16:52] <sabdfl> can't see a package
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[16:52] <sabdfl> i'll take a look during UDS
[16:52] <sabdfl> thanks for the suggestion!
[16:53] <sabdfl> rick spencer, martin pitt, sebastien bacher all do a brilliant job leading the decision process for which components get into the next version
[16:53] <sabdfl> it's always a great discussion
[16:53] <sabdfl> please join in next week
[16:53] <sabdfl> next!
[16:53] <jcastro> QUESTION: You are currently adding social networking and IM support to ubuntu (i.e. the panel), are there any efforts to expand it for other programs, like gajim, psi and xchat?
[16:53] <sabdfl> i would love them to support both the Me Menu and the Messaging Menu
[16:54] <sabdfl> but we also need to get on and fix the battery menu, and the network menu, and the bluetooth menu....
[16:54] <sabdfl> so it's a question of how we divide up our time
[16:54] <sabdfl> if they need something from us in order to integrate, we'd be happy to add it or at least discuss it
[16:54] <sabdfl> so, please encourage them to add support for those Ayatana indicators
[16:54] <sabdfl> it really cleans up the desktop nicely
[16:54] <sabdfl> next!
[16:54] <akgraner> mhall119> QUESTION: Launchpad is going to be getting better support for derivative distros, will Canonical provide any other support, like access to build servers, to unofficial child distros?
[16:55] <sabdfl> possibly
[16:55] <sabdfl> it's a reasonable request
[16:55] <sabdfl> we support PPA's already
[16:55] <sabdfl> building for a derivative distro would be straightforward
[16:55] <sabdfl> we would probably have to quota it, as we do PPA's
[16:55] <sabdfl> chat with flacoste
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:55] <sabdfl> and bigjools
[16:55] <sabdfl> next!
[16:55] <akgraner> <fluke_> QUESTION: What is in the future for Ubuntu's cloud computing efforts?
[16:56] <sabdfl> brilliant :-)
[16:56] <sabdfl> next!
[16:56] <jcastro> QUESTION: You say you want "the fastest browser" in 10.10. What will it be? Will it still be a (optimized) Firefox? Chromium? Some other lightweight simple browser?
[16:56] <sabdfl> we'll have a discussion at UDS
[16:56] <sabdfl> there are lots of advocates for Chromium, and Firefox is of course well established too
[16:56] <sabdfl> i don't have a view yet
[16:57] <sabdfl> and given the complexity of it, it's not something i'll BDFL :-)
[16:57] <sabdfl> next!
[16:57] <jcastro> QUESTION: what do you think about having a button in Software Center to donate to developers of software that users like? Some think this would hurt the volunteer open source community
[16:57] <sabdfl> such an interesting question
[16:57] <sabdfl> it's true that mixing money and volunteerism is likely to wilt the volunteerism
[16:57] <sabdfl> there's some great sociology research on that
[16:58] <sabdfl> so we'd have to be careful
[16:58] <sabdfl> but i'm open to the idea
[16:58] <sabdfl> i think we need to find ways to support floss projects better
[16:58] <sabdfl> and that might be one way
[16:58] <sabdfl> next!
[16:59] <akgraner> <joaopinto> QUESTION: As the range of systems using Ubuntu and the changes required to push newer technology increases each release brings issues to more and more users which were not involved on the development phase. Do you have any idea on how to address this ?
[16:59] <jcastro> (this will be the last question)
[16:59] <sabdfl> it's true - when you build it just for the people building it, everyone feels they were part of the decision
[17:00] <sabdfl> when there are millions of users who just hit "upgrade", it feels a bit like russian roulette for them
[17:00] <sabdfl> i can only say, we care about the whole user base
[17:00] <sabdfl> and work our asses off to make it great, on balance, for the most we can
[17:00] <sabdfl> and thank you all for helping!
[17:00] <sabdfl> phew
[17:00] <jcastro> sabdfl, ok the bot is about to move us along
[17:00] <jcastro> thanks for stopping by!
[17:00] <akgraner> Thanks sabdfl !
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Welcome to the Ubuntu Classroom - || Support in #ubuntu || Upcoming Schedule: || Event: Ubuntu Open Week - Current Session: Ubuntu Translations - Instructor: dpm - Slides: || Questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[17:00] <sabdfl> thanks jcastro, and bot, and akgraner :-)
[17:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Ubuntu Translations:
[17:01] <sabdfl> bye all!

MeetingLogs/openweekLucid/AskMark (last edited 2010-05-05 17:41:05 by 188)