Open Week -- Feedback and Conclusion -- Jorge Castro -- Fri, May 7
(03:00:35 PM) jcastro: what did you guys think about lernid? (03:01:28 PM) akgraner: jcastro, I love lernid and being able to use slides (03:01:51 PM) akgraner: but I was told many people just used a pdf reader and not lernid (03:01:58 PM) jcastro: whoops (03:02:48 PM) vox754: Lernid... seems like a good idea, but why bother if I already have xchat+evince (03:03:30 PM) qense: Connecting to the OpenWeek is easier with Lernid, you don't have to know what IRC channels are and such. (03:04:19 PM) sebsebseb: I haven't used Lemid, but if it is also for UDS, sorts out the channels automatically and what not, that would be good. (03:04:28 PM) vox754: By the way, organizers, I sense there is some lack of promotion of the Open Week, and the following UDS (03:04:33 PM) sebsebseb: I mean I know at the moment it's only for Open Week. (03:04:46 PM) sebsebseb: vox754: indeed at lack of promotion (03:04:53 PM) sebsebseb: for Open Week (03:05:02 PM) jcastro: yeah (03:05:08 PM) vox754: I attended one Open Week in 2007 perhaps, it was great. I found it by accident. (03:05:10 PM) kyubutsu: identi.ca has quite a few folk announcing OW (03:05:11 PM) jcastro: attendance is down about 100 people so that makes sense (03:05:28 PM) jcastro: that we need to improve visibility again and market it better (03:05:37 PM) akgraner: +1 (03:06:27 PM) akgraner: jcastro, that was the discussion we had early this morning that qense was referencing (03:06:35 PM) vox754: I didn't know back then they were after an Ubuntu release. Everybody knows the Ubuntu release is every 6 months, but mostly are clueless about what comes after. Same with UDS, for me at least. (03:06:42 PM) kyubutsu: i feel comfortable using irssi.. thats why i havent tried lernid (03:06:48 PM) kyubutsu: -_- (03:07:01 PM) jcastro: kyubutsu: yeah I am old school as well (03:07:20 PM) sebsebseb: also akgraner did a really good job at copying in peoples names :) unfortunatly this was not so for jcastro, but nevermind. Would have been nice to have my name with the question for Mark, about if he is disapointed or not, that more expereinced users are leaving Ubuntu. Also with names for the questions, people that check out the logs, will know who asked what. (03:07:21 PM) qense: You're still using Lynx as well? (03:07:35 PM) akgraner: basically it's release week--> open week--> uds back to back (03:07:57 PM) jcastro: sebsebseb: yeah I was using xchat-gnome and it wasn't highlighting the names (03:08:10 PM) vox754: Also, OW is disconcerting. Not many people used OW for Open Week. I was clueless when the games' guy earlier today was talking about OW. (03:08:12 PM) qense: You can copy the names from XChat GNOME. (03:08:16 PM) jcastro: unfortunately it's hard for two people to use the bot at once to automate the questions (03:08:17 PM) kyubutsu: somehow i dont agree more 'experience' users will leave ubuntu because of its current direction (03:08:20 PM) jcastro: qense: I couldn't figure that out (03:08:25 PM) sebsebseb: also I didn't know for a little while that, my question for Mark had been answered, since I didn't get high lighted as a result, of the name not being copyed in (03:08:26 PM) jcastro: without it highlighting the entire column (03:08:31 PM) qense: jcastro: Just keep selecting up to the naem. (03:08:34 PM) qense: ah (03:08:42 PM) qense: that's possible as well (03:08:44 PM) qense: <jcastro> without it highlighting the entire (03:08:55 PM) jcastro: ok (03:09:01 PM) jcastro: so chalk that one up to me not being able to use xchat (03:09:10 PM) qense: You're a GUI noob! (03:09:41 PM) jcastro: clearly I need a more advanced linux (03:10:09 PM) akgraner: thats why the NTEU is here :-) (03:10:13 PM) sebsebseb: Wine session was good as I knew it would be. Design team session I really enjoyed as well. End of adopt an upstream :) akgraner's Ubuntu women session was really good. (03:10:23 PM) vox754: <sebsebseb> also I didn't know for a little while that, my question for Mark had been answered, since I didn't get high lighted as a result <---- that also shows a little lack of concentration from your part. Lots of people gey distracted by the random chat going in -chat. (03:10:47 PM) sebsebseb: vox754: heh in a way (03:10:58 PM) kyubutsu: actually, i didnt know what playonlinux was until today (03:11:14 PM) sebsebseb: vox754: true I could have kept my eye on classroom more (03:11:21 PM) kyubutsu: i've only used wine alone (03:11:25 PM) jcastro: I hadn't even heard of playonlinux until today either (03:11:47 PM) kyubutsu: i like the concept.. i'll try it out (03:12:19 PM) vox754: playonlinux seems good. By the way, wine is a dependency, so it's not like it will "conflict", as someone asked earlier today. It's basically a GUI, and a few scripts. (03:12:37 PM) sebsebseb: yes (03:12:42 PM) sebsebseb: the guy was going to pm me back about that (03:12:43 PM) sebsebseb: ,but he didn't (03:12:47 PM) kyubutsu: its good i dont have wine installed at the moment, that way i try his install method too (03:12:56 PM) sebsebseb: anyway I got the answer I was after else where (03:13:28 PM) sebsebseb: it's like synaptic, a front end. a GUI, but yes it can use different versions of Wine (03:13:50 PM) akgraner: so - what about the number of sessions (03:13:59 PM) akgraner: session content (03:14:02 PM) akgraner: time zone (03:14:07 PM) JFo: I wasn't burned out by the number (03:14:12 PM) JFo: the content was great (03:14:14 PM) sebsebseb: at first when I saw the scheduled I guess I was a bit disapointed (03:14:17 PM) sebsebseb: since not as much this time (03:14:32 PM) jcastro: we had too many last time, it was brutal (03:14:37 PM) akgraner: any suggestions on how to gather ideas for session from community? (03:14:43 PM) jcastro: unless we get more people signing up to teach more classes (03:14:54 PM) JFo: jcastro, double +1 on the too many (03:15:01 PM) akgraner: jcastro, +1 I was fried after the karmic open week (03:15:05 PM) sebsebseb: however it's still been good, and also like the other two that I took part in, a few sessions that I wasn't really interested in, or weren't really for me, but that's expected. That will happen with the 10.10 open week as well probably. (03:15:08 PM) vox754: The session number was okay, not tiring at all, but not much excitement was created as the last time I joined one of this. Actually, the first one in 2007, I outright skipped a few classes that week. (03:15:10 PM) JFo: i slept all that weekend (03:15:11 PM) kyubutsu: number of sessions --> +1 (03:15:17 PM) sebsebseb: Can do other things when there's a session not really interested in of course (03:15:46 PM) yofel_: content was great, and yes, this open week felt better than the last, as for the time zone: I live in germany (currently utc+2) so it was optimal (03:15:51 PM) yofel_ is now known as yofel (03:16:08 PM) sebsebseb: a bit disapointed when I first saw the scheduled, more like I was disapointed, but saw it would still be a good open week (03:16:22 PM) jcastro: what was missing you think? (03:16:51 PM) akgraner: jcastro, question stealer (03:16:52 PM) akgraner: :-P (03:17:00 PM) charlie-tca: It was very centered on Ubuntu, missing Kubuntu and Xubuntu this time (03:17:10 PM) yofel: right (03:17:34 PM) jcastro: yeah we need to do better at chasing down derivatives (03:17:35 PM) akgraner: the oversight on the kubuntu sessions were my fault (03:17:37 PM) vox754: Q+A are great for the community. But the speakers need to have something prepared in case there are few questions like this time. (03:17:44 PM) yofel: actually, Lubuntu will be official for 10.10 right? or will that be decided next week? (03:17:51 PM) sebsebseb: open week starts, an hour later for me in, May, and then an hour earlier in November. I like how for the Spring one it's an hour earlier, and no I am not saying to change the time. (03:17:58 PM) akgraner: 2 sessions were suggested and I missed adding them somehow (03:18:01 PM) yofel: would be nice to have a session for that (03:18:02 PM) sebsebseb: yes since summer time I mean (03:18:10 PM) charlie-tca: Maybe a day just for derivatives to have an hour each would be an idea? (03:18:25 PM) jcastro: charlie-tca: that is an excellent idea (03:18:33 PM) jcastro: oh, this reminds me (03:18:43 PM) jcastro: that this channel is available year round! (03:18:54 PM) kyubutsu: it would have been nice to have had that development class using byobu (03:18:57 PM) jcastro: so if teams want to have their own weeks or days, they're more than welcome (03:19:00 PM) akgraner: yofel, agreed it's on my check for maverick open week to to email the those list specifically (03:19:12 PM) sebsebseb: akgraner: oh no Kubuntu sessions ah yes, could have been good, since loads of people seem to think Canonical don't really care much about Kubuntu (03:19:21 PM) yofel: akgraner: :) (03:19:24 PM) vox754: charlie-tca, yofel, jcastro I don't see a big difference between the main Ubuntu, and the derivatives, really. Unless the speakers can stress the differences in a good way, I don't see a point. (03:20:24 PM) charlie-tca: I use both Ubuntu and Xubuntu. there is quite a bit of difference now (03:20:31 PM) yofel: vox754: it's mostly the gui, but that's why we don't need many seperate sessions, most of it is identical (03:20:33 PM) jcastro: vox754: well, for them it's an opportunity to get people interested in their project (03:20:36 PM) sebsebseb: charlie-tca: Lubuntu :) (03:20:44 PM) jcastro: so you can say "hey I don't know jack about xubuntu but I want to help" (03:20:51 PM) sebsebseb: charlie-tca: not offical yet, it's in the repo (03:21:06 PM) charlie-tca: yeah, I haven't tried lubuntu (03:21:16 PM) sebsebseb: by 10.10 it will be offical from what I was reading before, like Kubuntu and Xubuntu (03:21:16 PM) jcastro: vox754: openweek is in some ways a recruiting tool for teams in ubuntu to find new volunteers (03:21:20 PM) vox754: When I joined talks on Kubuntu they are all like "KDE is gonna take over the world, you'll see, wow!" But not much afterwards. (03:21:26 PM) yofel: lxde is quite nice for a lightweight DE, haven't used it much yet though (03:21:54 PM) ***kyubutsu huggles gnome.. feeds it some kde's (03:22:08 PM) akgraner: would anyone actually take the time to fill out a survey if there was one linked to the wiki page? (03:22:29 PM) akgraner: a survey for feedback on open week (03:23:06 PM) yofel: KDE is usually more like: make an app as feature rich as possible, where gnome focuses (too much IMHO) on simplicity - one app per task (03:23:26 PM) kyubutsu: YESH!! (03:23:29 PM) kyubutsu: -_- (03:24:19 PM) yofel: nice to see for K3B <-> brasero and sound-juicer (03:24:50 PM) charlie-tca: Does anyone besides myself read the wiki page more than once? (03:24:54 PM) yofel: akgraner: why not? if it doesn't take too long it would be an easy way (03:25:02 PM) kyubutsu: i like gwenview tho.. there are a few qt apps i really like.. just not enough for me to go KDE (03:25:16 PM) vox754: akgraner, I think having this feedback session in the schedule is a great idea, and it's sufficient for my needs. I don't know if others prefer to use the wiki more. (03:25:18 PM) akgraner: yofel, noted (03:25:52 PM) akgraner: vox754, agreed - everyone has different levels of comfort for offering feedback (03:25:59 PM) akgraner: so I understand (03:26:23 PM) yofel: charlie-tca: erm... the derivatives page doesn't tell you much... (03:26:45 PM) charlie-tca: I know (03:26:54 PM) kyubutsu: it should be there in the wiki regardless.. unless you like coming up with percentages of possible visitors vs adding that couple of lines of code in the page (03:27:49 PM) kyubutsu: i prefer the after class review idea .. but why not use both (03:28:27 PM) kyubutsu: am talking about coverage .. (03:29:29 PM) akgraner: kyubutsu, just gathering feedbach (03:29:29 PM) sebsebseb: charlie-tca: Lubuntu is rather nice indeed (03:29:44 PM) akgraner: taking all the comments in at the moment (03:30:30 PM) akgraner: was the open week pdf booklet of value to any one ? (03:30:45 PM) akgraner: it's a ton of work and if no one is using it (03:30:58 PM) vox754: Hahaha... let me see that, I saw the link but never clicked on it. (03:31:07 PM) charlie-tca: yofel: the problem with that page is it is canonical and way out of date. The image is from jaunty? maybe. (03:32:13 PM) kyubutsu: ): well.. i.. didnt look at it either.. i was glued to the channel so i didnt have a 'need', therefore demand equaled zero.. (03:32:18 PM) ***yofel didn't look at it either (03:32:39 PM) Odd-rationale: The PDF booklet looked good! (03:32:40 PM) charlie-tca: huh? pdf booklet? (03:32:54 PM) yofel: http://frylock.redvoodoo.org/~akgraner/UOW-Lucid-Booklet.pdf (03:33:00 PM) kyubutsu: that doesnt mean it was/wasnt a bad product or idea.. just no traffic .. which kind of sucks (03:33:23 PM) akgraner: yofel, oh crap I forgot to add the ubuntu one link to it (03:33:24 PM) akgraner: hehe (03:33:40 PM) akgraner: I may have moved it from my server now (03:33:53 PM) yofel: it's still there (03:34:06 PM) akgraner: whew (03:34:06 PM) Odd-rationale: it's on the ubuntu wiki (03:34:23 PM) yofel: looking at it now it's quite nice, but renders incredibly slow in okular on my eeePC (~5s to open a page)... (03:34:37 PM) akgraner: no I meant the link is where I had it originally (03:34:58 PM) akgraner: and then I stuck it in my files on ubuntu one (03:35:08 PM) vox754: The booklet is fine. "i was glued to the channel so i didnt have a 'need'," <--- yea pretty much the same idea. (03:35:35 PM) akgraner: and you can share files publicly and I forget to switch out the links - I wanted to showcase Ubuntu One feature :-) (03:36:16 PM) akgraner: yeah - but you all sorta confirmed it's not used :-0 (03:36:18 PM) akgraner: :-) (03:36:47 PM) sebsebseb: akgraner: oh when I tried to download just before Open Week, it downloaded the old one, as for the new one i'll still download it and check it out (03:37:13 PM) sebsebseb: akgraner: I mean the one with the scheduled and some info about the people doing Open Week (03:37:20 PM) akgraner: sebsebseb, I can't make the booklet until we lock in all the speakers (03:37:38 PM) akgraner: so this time I created a speaker wiki page (03:37:51 PM) akgraner: I think that was easier for most people (03:38:06 PM) akgraner: and I could add content about the speakers and their sessions easier (03:38:28 PM) akgraner: did anyone look at that page to see or find out more about the sessions or speakers (03:38:33 PM) nealmcb: lernid wasn't a fit for me. not much control over the browsing, too crowded, couldn't click on urls in the session, some confusing controls (right arrow for enter?), a memory hog (including adding firefox to my chrome desktop), etc irssi+chrome works better for me. but nice to have notifications about the schedule - I should figure out how to get some other client to do that. and irssi could probably auto-load urls (03:39:58 PM) kyubutsu: that's my formula.. irssi/chromium (03:40:35 PM) akgraner: nealmcb, I believe classbot also gives notifications for sessions as well - nhandler pleia2 cjohnston it is classbot or lernid that does that (03:40:49 PM) kyubutsu: classbot +1 (03:41:11 PM) vox754: I kinda felt disappointed that the talks were not "clickable", that is, that they didn't point directly to their log, But just a minor complain really. The link to the logs is right there. (03:41:23 PM) akgraner: vox (03:41:34 PM) pleia2: classroom has identica and twitter feeds, as well as an ical all linked on wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom (03:41:47 PM) akgraner: vox754, we needed to see if it would interfer with lernid - and we found out it wouldn't (03:42:03 PM) akgraner: so they will go back to being linked in the table on the wiki page (03:42:08 PM) pleia2: classbot itself just does the two "session 5/10 minutes left" notices, and changes the topic for new sessions, no real advance warning (03:42:35 PM) vox754: ClassBot, you are great sir. (03:42:36 PM) akgraner: so lernid is what makes the notifier on the desktop tell you then? (03:42:53 PM) pleia2: akgraner: yep (03:43:42 PM) akgraner: we did more team Q&A's this time (03:43:46 PM) akgraner: how were those (03:43:52 PM) akgraner: (for those who attended) (03:44:14 PM) vox754: The byobu talk was great. I only have one computer, so I've never needed to setup screen, ssh, or anything like that. It's nice to see what's on other peoples computers. (03:45:04 PM) sebsebseb: akgraner: I am not that keen on the colour theme, but other then that, nice booklet by the looks of it. (03:45:46 PM) kyubutsu: byobu was cool [for me] 'cause it was very 'hands on'.. cant get any better (03:46:02 PM) sebsebseb: kyubutsu: byobu I don't really understand those sessions (03:46:12 PM) sebsebseb: security session I didn't understand much of either (03:46:32 PM) akgraner: kirkland 's sessions are really well put together, but typically pretty technical at times (03:46:35 PM) yofel: yep, byobu was great, I found the developer session today nice too, but dholbach would need more time it seems :P (03:46:38 PM) kyubutsu: i liked those two sessions /shrugs (03:46:47 PM) vox754: I'll repeat myself, Q+A are great. But the speakers need to have something prepared in case there are few questions like this time. I think even a having a monologue with oneself is useful. Heh. (03:47:06 PM) akgraner: should we identify those "technical"sessions better (03:47:11 PM) ***kyubutsu agrees with vox754 (03:47:18 PM) yofel: sebsebseb: understand as in: you didn't get what was said or why we had them? (03:47:24 PM) akgraner: we can make suggestions :-) (03:47:39 PM) sebsebseb: yofel: I don't really know what byobu is (03:47:43 PM) sebsebseb: I mean I know it's some sort of app for screen (03:47:48 PM) sebsebseb: ,but I use neither at the moment (03:48:13 PM) vox754: The security session was kinda complicated for those that didn't know what a compiler, or debugger was. A little intro would be okay. (03:48:19 PM) kyubutsu: i dont quite like q&A all that much.. i prefer the presentation approach and THEN have a q&a (03:48:31 PM) sebsebseb: well I know what a compilar and debugger are (03:48:35 PM) yofel: ah, well, it might have been nice to have a few more use examples (03:48:40 PM) sebsebseb: I think. compiler makes the program out of the source code (03:48:50 PM) ***yofel uses screen locally too so an apt process doesn't depend on X (03:48:51 PM) sebsebseb: debugger goes through it checking for bugs? and pointing them out? (03:48:55 PM) kyubutsu: even if it's 10 minute presentation and 50 of q+a (03:48:59 PM) sebsebseb: points them out (03:49:06 PM) vox754: sebsebseb, if you "think" you know, then you don't know... heh (03:49:36 PM) sebsebseb: vox754: easy enough to find out, plus I thought I sort of knew (03:50:02 PM) akgraner: ok feedback on the overall - open week (03:50:09 PM) vox754: kyubutsu, 10 min presentation and 50 q+a is basically the same as Q+A only (03:50:10 PM) akgraner: any thing else (03:50:48 PM) akgraner: I have 1) better promotion (03:51:01 PM) akgraner: 2) more *buntu session (03:51:08 PM) akgraner: 3) surveys (03:51:18 PM) sebsebseb: oh surveys (03:51:23 PM) sebsebseb: what we thought of Open Week? (03:51:27 PM) sebsebseb: answer some questions (03:51:30 PM) sebsebseb: ? (03:51:35 PM) kyubutsu: vox754: to an extent, yes, practically .. but, my point is, i rather lay out the canvas in a categoric manner as fuel for the rest of the possible questions (03:51:38 PM) akgraner: 4)suggest Q&A sessions have some content perpared as well (03:52:07 PM) vox754: Overall okay. I just would like to see more people getting excited, not sebsebseb-like excited because that would shut down freenode. But still. (03:52:16 PM) akgraner: 5) lernid worked great for some not some much for others (03:52:24 PM) akgraner: 6) classbot was a hit (03:52:32 PM) vox754: I love Classbot (03:52:32 PM) sebsebseb: vox754: you mean yourself excited, since that would get everyone banned from the channel (03:52:43 PM) sebsebseb: well nearly everyone (03:53:02 PM) akgraner: 7) booklet was not really used (03:53:09 PM) vox754: sebsebseb, buddy that's private man! (03:53:13 PM) akgraner: 8) link logs to table sessions again (03:53:26 PM) akgraner: vox754, sebsebseb pls :-) (03:53:27 PM) akgraner: :-( (03:53:30 PM) akgraner: I meant (03:53:54 PM) sebsebseb: akgraner: nevermind I guess, since we are joking with each other, or so it seems (03:54:23 PM) akgraner: it's cool for you all to - but not while I'm gather feedback - its distracting (03:54:39 PM) sebsebseb: good point plus not much time left now (03:54:49 PM) mhall119: akgraner: you want feedback in here, or is there going to be an online survey? (03:54:50 PM) akgraner: *nods* (03:54:52 PM) sebsebseb: feel free to continue (03:55:02 PM) vox754: akgraner, on the promotion thing. I'm subscribed to the Ubuntu News that show the security updates. Those also show the new release. I would expect them to show also Open Week and UDS, but they don't. I guess those feeds aren't exactly under the community control, but still. (03:55:25 PM) akgraner: vox754, we did have it in there (03:55:32 PM) akgraner: for several issues (03:55:55 PM) akgraner: and in there I mean - UWN (03:56:22 PM) akgraner: so did I miss anything? (03:56:36 PM) JFo: no idea, too much churn (03:56:44 PM) ***JFo scrolls back (03:56:52 PM) vox754: I mean this one: http://www.ubuntu.com/rss.xml I originally subscribed to this one. The security bugs are also reported on ubuntuforums.org, that's how I found it. (03:56:52 PM) mhall119: I missed the whole day :( (03:57:07 PM) akgraner: mhall119, logs are a beautiful thing :-) (03:57:15 PM) mhall119: yeah, I've got a lot of catching up to do (03:57:20 PM) akgraner: but sorry you missed the sessions today (03:57:27 PM) JFo: akgraner, I can't see anything you missed (03:57:41 PM) akgraner: 9) 25 sessions are good (03:57:55 PM) JFo: but as for Q&A sessions, if the teams are to prepare some content then they won't be Q&A sessions (03:58:05 PM) jcastro: well (03:58:11 PM) jcastro: this time we were the week after release (03:58:20 PM) jcastro: so I kind of asked for general Q+A sessions from teams (03:58:26 PM) jcastro: in order to answer people's questions, etc. (03:58:27 PM) vox754: Like I would like them to appear here http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=13 (03:58:30 PM) akgraner: JFo, I know the kernel team and desktop teams had some prepared questions and comments (03:58:33 PM) sebsebseb: jcastro: uh isn't Open Week always the week, after the new release? (03:58:36 PM) JFo: true (03:58:38 PM) jcastro: and so many people were busy that it was easier for them (03:58:44 PM) jcastro: sebsebseb: not always, just recently (03:58:46 PM) vox754: and here http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/USN-937-1 (03:58:47 PM) jcastro: it used to be in the middle (03:58:50 PM) mhall119: there were a lot of people asking specific support questions I noticed (03:58:54 PM) JFo: akgraner, but I thought the point meant to present something (03:58:55 PM) sebsebseb: jcastro: middle of the month after release? (03:59:02 PM) JFo: if that isn't the case, disregard me :) (03:59:12 PM) jcastro: in the middleish of the cycle (03:59:19 PM) akgraner: JFo, hehe just to have content incase of lull (03:59:23 PM) jcastro: it wasn't until the last 2 I think where we decided it would always be the week afyer (03:59:27 PM) mhall119: perhaps a "triage" session would be good, where someone(s) field bug complaints, and direct people on where and how to file them specifically (03:59:35 PM) JFo: akgraner, cool, then nevermind what I said :) (03:59:39 PM) sebsebseb: oh ok (03:59:47 PM) nealmcb: I agree - a bit more presentation, less pure-q&a - helps explain things (03:59:57 PM) akgraner: ok - thanks everyone!!! (03:59:58 PM) JFo: mhall119, I think that is in danger of being a week long session :) (04:00:00 PM) jcastro: ok (04:00:15 PM) akgraner: Great Open Week-Lucid (04:00:23 PM) nealmcb: byobu is a great tool, but hard to use in a live presentation -hard to notice things happening, can't go backwards (04:00:23 PM) jcastro: \o/ (04:00:31 PM) mhall119: JFo: true, but hopefully an hour of watching where other people get directed will help some others do it themselves (04:00:33 PM) nealmcb: great week - thanks folks! (04:00:36 PM) sebsebseb: Thanks jcastro akgraner and the other people who did Open Week! (04:00:40 PM) ***nealmcb unlags by the end :) (04:00:44 PM) JFo: mhall119, I agree (04:00:47 PM) vox754: I guess Open Week and UDS are properly promoted, I just fail to frequent social sites, like one of the talks suggested. (04:00:48 PM) akgraner: Thanks for all the feedback - now let's make marverick kick butt!!