Ubuntu Open Week - Gobuntu - Evan Dandrea - Wed, Oct 24, 2007
21:08 <@LjL> Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current Session: Gobuntu - Evan Dandrea 21:08 -!- LjL changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current Session: Gobuntu - Evan Dandrea 21:08 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+v evand] by LjL 21:08 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-v dholbach] by LjL 21:08 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o LjL] by LjL 21:08 <+evand> Hi, I'm Evan Dandrea, I work on Ubuntu as a member of the installer team, but this past release I was tasks with implementing Ubuntu without Restricted, which you all know as Gobuntu 21:09 <+evand> If you are unfamiliar with Gobuntu, please see the Ubuntu website, specifically this page: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/gobuntu 21:10 <+evand> Now, I am pretty terrbile at following fast moving conversations, so if I miss a "QUESTION" in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, someone please call attention to it. I'm not going to try and dodge anything ;) 21:11 <+evand> That said, does anyone have a question to start us off with? 21:11 <+evand> (please ask it in #ubuntu-classroom-chat using QUESTION to preface it) 21:12 <+evand> 17:04:29 < mbt> QUESTION: Does RMS have anything to do with Gobuntu? 21:12 <+evand> 17:04:37 < mbt> (Or are there plans to have him work with it?) 21:13 <+evand> My understanding is that RMS does not have any intention of participating in Gobuntu or giving it his blessing. However, I do believe that gNewSense, one of the main motivators for creating Gobuntu, has his blessing. 21:13 <+evand> To expand on that, one of our main goals is making it as easy as possible for gNewSense to continue to happen. 21:14 <+evand> By creating Gobuntu, we're trying to make it so that they don't have to derive from an older LTS release and manually rip bits out. 21:14 <+evand> 17:05:23 < lokpest> QUESTION: Will gobuntu only come with gnome _as default_ or will there a KDE version in the future? 21:15 <+evand> As it stands there are only plans for a GNOME-based Gobuntu release, but if someone steps forward and does the legwork for creating a KDE Gobuntu, I as well as others, I imagine, would be willing to help with some of the infrastructure details. 21:16 <+evand> If that's something you'd like to see, I'd suggest you attend the Gobuntu spec meeting at UDS Boston in person or via VoIP 21:16 <+evand> speaking of which 21:16 <+evand> so there's a mailing list, http://lists.ubuntu.com/gobuntu-devel 21:16 <+evand> and on that list I've put up some details about the meeting for the Gobuntu specification for Ubuntu 8.04 21:17 <+evand> bascially, as far of our 6 month release cycle we meet for a week to plan out the features for the next release 21:17 <+evand> this coming week we're going to do that for 8.04 and Gobuntu is a session on there 21:18 <+evand> you don't have to be in Boston (the venue for this event) to attend. You can dial into the appropriate VoIP line for the room (which I'll post to the mailing list when that's determined) 21:18 <+evand> I encourage everyone who is interested in rolling up their sleeves and working on Gobuntu to attend that 21:19 <+evand> 17:06:08 < samgee> QUESTION: What is gobuntu's relation to gnewsense? 21:19 <+evand> We invited the gNewSense developers to the previous development summit, and created the initial specification for Gobuntu based on input from them. 21:20 <+evand> Ideally we'd like to be a great platform for derivation for them. 21:20 <+evand> We are *not* trying to replace gNewSense. We were created to make gNewSense's work easier. 21:20 <+evand> created in part, that is 21:21 <+evand> 17:10:48 < edenbeast> QUESTION: Mono .NET some still regard it as controversial with regards to its legal freedom and it's gaining prominent places in standard gnome, what's gobuntu's take on it? 21:22 <+evand> that's a touchy subject for many. As far as the patent issue goes, Gobuntu is not prepared to strip out any piece of software because of patent claims. You cannot reasonably write a piece of software and say that it is 100% free of software patents, given the rubber stamp the USPTO seems to yield nowadays. 21:23 <+evand> 17:12:50 < samgee> QUESTION: Is it just licenses that get taken into consideration or do you exclude patented stuff as well? 21:23 <+evand> ^ covered above 21:23 <+evand> as is this \/ 21:23 <+evand> 17:13:27 < lokpest> QUESTION: can you talk expalin why gobuntu reject patent-encumbered programs, even though FSF says that this doesnt make it non-free? 21:24 <+evand> we do not reject software covered by patents. Most of the linux kernel can be construed as being covered by patents despite being free. 21:24 <+evand> 7:14:24 < savvas> so gobuntu is actually the ubuntu-minimal package? 21:24 <+evand> No 21:24 <+evand> Gobuntu is roughly ubuntu-standard, ubuntu-minimal, and gobuntu-desktop 21:25 <+evand> gobuntu-desktop is generated using seeds, for those curious: 21:25 <+evand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SeedManagement 21:26 <+evand> 17:18:07 < LjL> QUESTION: About patents - i believe Ubuntu itself (not Gobuntu) already strips out some packages because of patents. Since I don't suppose you are going to put those packages "back in", I assume that you will simply consider whatever standard Ubuntu feels it cannot included "patented enough" to avoid inclusion? 21:26 <+evand> correct, and I apologize for not being clearer. We defer the decision to the Ubuntu archive team. 21:27 <+evand> If the archive team feels that there is a serious threat of Ubuntu being sued into the ground by including a piece of software, then they choose to not include it and Gobuntu, by using the Ubuntu archive, doesn't include it either 21:27 <+evand> What I just said should not be taken as a literal interpetation of how they choose what and what does not go into the archive 21:27 <+evand> You'd have to approach them on the exact formula. 21:28 <+evand> 17:18:55 < savvas> QUESTION: (followup) so you provide desktop gui utils for the customizations (as much as there exist, that is)? 21:29 <+evand> I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. Gobuntu is released as a installer CD, just like Ubuntu. It is not treated as just an add-on package. Does that answer your question or can you clarify? 21:29 <+evand> 17:19:06 < samgee> QUESTION: What do you consider to be not modifiable? For example, you exclude pdf docs (without source) although some programs can alter them 21:31 <+evand> Anything that does not include the original source material. In the case of programs, that's binary blobs. In the case of media, that's the source document. In the case of PDFs, I think the distinction would be whether or not it's an image based PDF. 21:32 <+evand> I should note that there is no dictator here. Gobuntu operates under the same governmental system as Ubuntu. So if you disagree with a decision, you can always appeal to the tech board. 21:32 <+evand> that that usually only happens if a consensus on something cannot be met 21:32 <+evand> as we work as a team in Ubuntu 21:33 <+evand> no one person "owns" any package 21:33 <+evand> 17:24:07 < samgee> QUESTION: Do you have a policy on supporting closed formats (like Flash) even if there is free software that can handle it? 21:34 <+evand> While it's unfortunate that such formats exist, we do include software (such as Gnash, a completely free Flash player) in Gobuntu 21:34 <+evand> Now what we will not do is include flash files in Gobuntu 21:34 <+evand> as those violate what I said above 21:35 <+evand> 17:28:05 < pwnguin> QUESTION: has there been any serious efforts to package and promote free alternatives to non-free programs in Gobuntu thus far? 21:36 <+evand> The one major distinction that's gotten a lot of discussion so far is that in 8.04 we're going to probably use Epiphany as the default browser rather than Firefox or Debian's version 21:37 < pwnguin> what about nvidia? 21:37 <+evand> Personally, I think this is great and we should definitely advocate the fact that we're the distribution that uses Epiphany 21:37 <+evand> pwnguin: do you mean nv or nou\avo (sp?) 21:37 < pwnguin> sure 21:37 < pwnguin> nouveau, yes 21:38 <+evand> ok, so it was mentioned in -chat that the default GNOME desktop includes Epiphany. Right, but do any major distributions make it their default browser? 21:38 <+evand> oh 21:38 <+evand> I think I misunderstood that comment 21:38 <+evand> nevermind :) 21:39 <+evand> pwnguin: The decision to use nouveau over nv would be one that would probably happen at the Ubuntu tech board level. I think we want to make sure that Gobuntu is stable, and not just a testing ground for Ubuntu. 21:40 <+evand> So when that driver proves to be ready, it most certainly be included 21:40 <+evand> IMHO, I hope that's soon as I cannot stand the nvidia binary driver 21:40 <+evand> 17:28:16 < lokpest> QUESTION: can u give us a quick explaination of the "Draconian trademark restrictions" of Firefox (does It really make it firefox non-free etc)? 21:41 <+evand> To be honest I have not followed the discussions in Debian well enough to give you what I would consider a decent overview, and the question of whether or not it really makes Firefox "non-free" is highly subjective. 21:42 < pwnguin> theres no such than as a quick explaination of firefox's trademarks 21:42 <+evand> heh 21:42 <+evand> I will say that I think it's an unfortunate fork, but I hope it really turns out to be a blessing for Epiphany here as that browser is long overdue for some attention. 21:42 < LinuxJuggalo> @now 21:42 <+evand> 17:33:03 < samgee> QUESTION: Do you install the source material of content together with the content or will it be available in the src repository? 21:42 <+evand> We install the source material with the content 21:43 <+evand> This is done for Ubuntu as well 21:43 <+evand> See the Examples/ directory 21:43 <+evand> 17:35:23 < pwnguin> QUESTION: how does Ubuntu's current trademark policy sit with gobuntu? 21:44 <+evand> They are one-in-the-same. We will not bow to threats from Microsoft or anyone else. 21:44 < pwnguin> i mean, the ubuntu logo and trademark 21:45 <+evand> I am actually not sure on that as it pertains to the Gobuntu logo and trademark. I will ask Mark and reply to that question on the gobuntu-devel mailing list. 21:46 <+evand> next question? Have I missed any more? 21:46 <+evand> Anyone want me to clairfy something? 21:46 <+evand> 17:39:16 < samgee_> QUESTION: Is it possible to upgrade from feisty ubuntu to gutsy gobuntu? 21:47 <+evand> Good question, and I'm glad you asked it. 21:47 <+evand> No, at the moment it is not possible to upgrade from one to the other. 21:48 <+evand> Given my understanding of how the package system works, or how I assume it to work, it would be quite difficult to do that. I am curious to find out if it's possible and I'll check into that and reply to the gobuntu-devel list. 21:49 <+evand> 17:40:02 < popey> QUESTION: Will you be at UDS Boston, and if so, what Specs are you pushing for gobuntu? 21:49 <+evand> Yes, I'll be at UDS Boston and FOSSCamp. 21:49 <+evand> There is a single specification for Gobuntu for UDS Boston: 21:49 * popey subscribes 21:49 <+evand> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gobuntu-hardy 21:49 <@popey> thanks 21:49 <@popey> (see you there) 21:50 <+evand> I encourage everyone to attend. But if you're going to participate, please make it more of a "I'd like to see this and I have the time and energy to accomplish it" rather than "wouldn't it be great if..." comments 21:50 <+evand> popey: always (I saw you in Spain, but I don't believe we were ever formally introduced) 21:50 <+evand> I could be wrong, I have a *terrible* memory 21:50 <@popey> bummer 21:50 <@popey> i was there, yes 21:51 <+evand> 17:40:25 < tehk> QUESTION: How functional are the free java packages, and Gnash. Sorry if this was discussed earlier 21:51 <+evand> Free java, I'm not sure as I have not tested icedtea yet. Gnash works quite well for me, but ymmv. 21:52 <+evand> 17:41:44 < Zaratrust> QUESTION: is there any kind of relationship between gobuntu devs and the gnewsense devs? 21:52 <+evand> Yes, we invited them to UDS Spain to make sure that this project helped them further theirs. I hope we have a continuing relationship with them where they derive from Gobuntu in the future and feed us back suggestions and patches. 21:53 <+evand> 17:42:44 < samgee_> QUESTION: Is gobuntu completely free now or is it still a work in progress? 21:53 <+evand> THANK YOU for asking this. 21:53 <+evand> Gobuntu is a work in progress. 21:53 <+evand> 7.10 includes Firefox, which is a big problem. 21:54 <+evand> It also has some evil kernel modules. 21:54 <+evand> Making a completely free distribution is a monumental task (as the gNewSense developers) 21:54 <+evand> But it's something we intend to accomplish 21:55 <+evand> It will go much quicker as the project as a community picks up steam and there's more of you contributing patches 21:55 <+evand> Remember, you don't need to be an Ubuntu developer to get work done 21:55 <+evand> I'm a lowely MOTU and despite my changes to things like the seeds needing to get approval, I did a fair amount of legwork for Gobuntu so far 21:56 <+evand> but you don't even need to have any kind of Ubuntu association 21:56 <+evand> Just subscribe to the mailing list. Find something you'd like to change, discuss it, and create a patch. 21:56 <+evand> If you don't understand how some part of the Ubuntu/Gobuntu infrastructure works, *ask*! 21:57 <+evand> 17:44:50 < pwnguin> QUESTION: How can gobuntu bring in more developers interested in a completely Free system while still relying on a non-free support system? 21:57 <+evand> Ouch. Well, I would argue that Canonical has every intention of open sourcing Launchpad. 21:57 <+evand> We will probably remove links to LP in the menus, however. 21:58 <+evand> But I think setting up a separate bugzilla is a bit too much work over the long term 21:58 <+evand> Of course, we can discuss that at length on the mailing list or at UDS 21:58 <+evand> 17:45:20 < desertc> QUESTION: Other than producing an operating system for enthusiasts of Free Software, how do you see Gobuntu playing in the wider world? Are there bigger niches that you see this alternative OS being effective? Are there organizations that cannot use Ubuntu because of patent concerns that you are trying to help? Or do you see this 21:58 <+evand> as a work i progress to build an operating csystem comparable in function to Ubuntu as the features of st 21:59 <+evand> 17:45:20 < desertc> rictly Free Software improve? 21:59 <+evand> I know of no existing relationships with such organizations, but if they exist, I'd love to see them use Gobuntu. 22:00 <+evand> Our primary goal is being a top notch *free software* distribution for derivation. 22:00 <+evand> But there's no reason why we cannot expand beyond that 22:00 <+evand> But it's somewhat early to start hunting nitches. Especially when we have quite a ways to go before we accomplish that first part. :) 22:01 <+evand> 17:47:31 < Zaratrust> QUESTION: still regarding gNewSense, what are the main differences between gobuntu and gNewSense? 22:01 <+evand> We hope to be the platform that they derive from. Our goal is to make it extremely easy for them to base their distribution off of every release, not just the LTS ones. 22:01 <+evand> As far as differences, that's up to them 22:02 <+evand> They choose (I believe) to keep .NET out 22:02 <+evand> on that, they make take a more liberal stance on software patents than we do 22:03 <+evand> But we want to work together and define a clear path for collaboration between Gobuntu and gNewSense. 22:03 <+evand> 17:47:32 < pwnguin> QUESTION: what's the deal with 3945 wifi? i heard about an iwl driver as an alternative to the version the restricted driver tool notifies me about? 22:04 <+evand> I'm not familiar with that issue, you'd have to take it up with the kernel team (#ubuntu-kernel). Or if you get no response there (though I cannot see why you wouldn't), I can talk to Ben Collins directly next week. 22:04 <+evand> 17:50:13 < sistpoty> QUESTION: evand: where can interested people come together after the meeting and ask questions to gobuntu devs? (hint: should be answered as last question of the meeting;) 22:04 <+evand> Thanks for the hint :) 22:04 <+evand> Please come and join the Gobuntu mailing list 22:04 <+evand> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/gobuntu-devel 22:05 <+evand> To quote Mark: 22:05 <+evand> "Please don't use this list as a forum for demands about your ideal platform - use it to discuss the work you are willing to put into bringing Gobuntu more into line with that ideal." 22:05 <+evand> and a follow up to that from him: 22:05 <+evand> "Gobuntu exists as a forum for action - it will only be as good as the effort that goes into it. Colin, Evan, Daniel Holbach and others will help anyone who wants to put time and effort into Gobuntu achieve that goal." 22:06 <+evand> Also, please plan on attending the Gobuntu spec session at UDS Boston 22:06 <+evand> I'll post the exact date and time of that as soon as it's available, on the mailing list 22:06 <+evand> the associated spec as mentioned before can be found here: 22:06 <+evand> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gobuntu-hardy 22:07 <+evand> we will come out of that with a specific list of things to get done for Hardy, so it's pretty important that we have as many willing contributors there so we can reach consensus 22:07 <+evand> but fear not if you cannot make it and your thoughts don't make it to that document 22:07 <+evand> there's nothing stopping you from posting patches of your own to the mailing list 22:08 <+evand> and you can do that right up to the Freeze (see the release schedule for Ubuntu) 22:08 <+evand> THANKS EVERYONE! 22:08 <@popey> thanks evand 22:08 <+evand> I hope I hear from you all on the mailing list soon 22:08 < samgee_> thanks evand 22:08 <+evand> and lets make Gobuntu 8.04 rock!