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Ubuntu Open Week - Troubleshooting with Launchpad Answers - Alan Pope - Tue, Oct 23, 2007

20:15 -!- popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current session:  Troubleshooting with Launchpad Answers - Alan Pope
20:15 <@popey> Hello everyone!
20:16 < Daviey> o/
20:16 <@popey> My name is Alan Pope, and apparently I look like Elvis.
20:16 < zzzzzZZZZzzz> That's nice.
20:16 <@popey> I'm going to talk a bit about launchpad answers, and afterwards take some questions
20:16 <@popey> Launchpad was covered yesterday by Matt Revell. See the following log of that session if you'd like to know more about launchpad in general.
20:17 <@popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekgutsy/LP_Introduction1 - Log of the Launchpad session from yesterday.
20:17 <@popey> For the start of this session I'm going to "borrow" some of Matt Revells comments from that session.
20:17 <@popey> "Launchpad is a suite of tools that help you to take part in free software projects."
20:17 <@popey> "If you need help with Ubuntu, you can ask a question using Launchpad. Or, if you want to contribute back to the Ubuntu community by helping other people, you can answer their questions"
20:17 <@popey> http://answers.launchpad.net/ - the main page for Launchpad Answers
20:18 <@popey> http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ -  the Launchpad Answers page specifically for the Ubuntu product
20:18 <@popey> (note this generally covers _all_ Ubuntu products [Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu] due in part to them sharing many of the same packages and resources)
20:18 <@popey> So if you want to file a question about an Ubuntu application (such as Gedit) or a Kubuntu package (such as Kate) you can do at the same URL above.
20:18 <@popey> Mailing lists and web forums are traditionally where free software projects answer user support questions. However, it can be difficult to capture that knowledge and make it easily available to the community.
20:18 <@popey> Some people are also intimidated by mailing lists or the initiation rituals of some forums :)
20:19 <@popey> Launchpad's Answer Tracker is a simple way for people to ask questions about a project.
20:19 <@popey> Anyone can offer an answer and the original questioner can highlight the answer they found most useful.
20:19 <@popey> Members of a project's community can sign up to be support contacts, meaning they receive an email each time a new question is asked about that project. Support contacts can also identify which questions are FAQ.
20:19 <@popey> FAQ - along with a good answer - are then easily searchable and available to anyone.
20:20 <@popey>  < mbt> QUESTION:  Will there ever be a ML or NG <--> LP gateway for Answers?  Some people (well, like myself ;-)  have strong dislikes for web forum based systems 
20:20 <@popey>                                         for various reasons.
20:20 <@popey> Good question. I don't like forums either :)
20:20 <@popey> The good news is you can interact with launchpad answers entirely via email
20:20 <@popey> you don't have to visit the site at all
20:20 <@popey> so you can treat it just like you would a mailing list
20:20 <@popey> People can ask questions in their own language(s). Support contacts can choose to receive notification of questions asked in their preferred languages.
20:21 <@popey> Importantly, all of the questions and answers are easily searchable, meaning that they build into a knowledge-base for the project.
20:21 <@popey> Before you can post questions (and indeed answers), on the answers system, you need to register on Launchpad.
20:21 <@popey> You can search and read answers without a Launchpad logon though.
20:21 <@popey> https://launchpad.net/+login - Register with Launchpad here
20:22 <@popey> Clearly you only need to do this once.
20:22 <@popey> There are other benefits to registering on Launchpad, including being able to report, update, track and triage bugs, translate applications and so on. I'm not going to cover those areas.
20:22 <@popey> So how about some use cases for Launchpad Answers:
20:22 <@popey> SCENARIO 1: John is a new user to Ubuntu and he has a problem with his computer. His 1280x1024 screen doesn't seem to be running at the right resolution. 
20:23 <@popey> SCENARIO 2: Ralph is an experienced user of Ubuntu, and he would like to give back to the community. Ralph isn't a developer though, but feels he has enough experience at a user level to be able to help other new users.
20:23 <@popey> SCENARIO 3: Dave is a developer of a product (Mythbuntu) that is supplied in the Ubuntu repository, and is managed through Launchpad, he wants to answer technical questions from his users, and keep those answers in one searchable location so that he can refer other users to that resource.
20:23 <@popey> (yes, that's you Daviey )
20:23 <@popey> So Scenario 1 is a user, Scenario 2 is an expert user, Scenario 3 is a developer
20:23 <@popey> < rohan> QUESTION: in relation to mbt's question, is Launchpad Answers meant in part to replace ubuntuforums.org ? if not, why ?
20:23 <@popey> No. Answers isn't a replacement for ubuntu forums
20:24 <@popey> ubuntu forums does consist of Q&A, but it also has a massive community of discussion around it
20:24 <@popey> it also has libraries of how-tos, and other technical documents
20:24 <@popey> that's not what answers is about
20:24 <@popey> < dorto> QUESTION: Wouldn't Launchpad Answers result in massive amount of duplication of Qs asked and Answers given? The same DVD questions are already asked on Forums, Mailing Lists and  Launchpad Bugs site.
20:25 <@popey> Possibly, but that is going to happen anywhere
20:25 <@popey> newbies just flat out don't search for answers - a lot of the time anyway
20:25 <@popey> that's a fact we have to live with
20:25 <@popey> however, having the database available and searchable is a significant benefit
20:25 <@popey> in addition questions are tagged with the application to which they pertain
20:26 <@popey> so someone can (for example) see all questions relating to "gedit" or "firefox"
20:26 <@popey> which you can't do on the forums (easily)
20:26 <@popey>  < rohan> i mean, why not keep a single place - LA - for question answers and support ? why have ubuntuforums.org too, for the same purpose
20:26 <@popey> ubuntuforums was a separate entity, it grew throught the community
20:26 <@popey> answers has always been a strategic launchpad product
20:26 <@popey> the two run in parallel
20:27 <@popey> there is room for both in my opinion
20:27 <@popey> there are a significant number of people who _only_ use the forums, and not answers, and there are also groups of people who use answers but not forums
20:27 <@popey>  < mbt> QUESTION:  Is LP Answers intended only for "sanctioned" solutions and/or workarounds, or are answers free to address problems in any way that works?
20:27 <@popey> Good question!
20:28 <@popey> no, not at all, it's acommunity based application
20:28 <@popey> so people sometimes give duff advice, in exactly the same way they do everywhere else
20:28 < mbt> May I clarify?
20:28 <@popey> yes
20:29 < mbt> There are often several ways to solve a problem, with varying degress of "Ubuntuness" to them.  Is there an unwritten something or general concensus as to what sort of answers are supplied?  That's really more what I was asking I think.
20:29 <@popey> ok
20:29 <@popey> well, I'll give you an example
20:30 <@popey> Q: I'd like to play DVDs, what should I do?
20:30 <@popey> Answer1: Install automatix
20:30 <@popey> Answer2: Read _this_ page on the wiki
20:30 <@popey> Answer3: Install the following list of packages... foo, bar, baz
20:30 <@popey> Each answer is potentially valid
20:30 <@popey> none are intrinsically _wrong_
20:30 <@popey> what you find though is that it is somewhat "self policing"
20:31 <@popey> in that other members of the community will correct other people - but should do so within the bounds of the CoC
20:31 <@popey> i.e. not saying "Don't listen to that advice it's rubbish!"
20:31 <@popey> but saying something like "Some people advice against using method A, and suggest you should use method B"
20:31 <@popey> that make sense mbt?
20:31 < mbt> Okay, thanks!  That has been a big question for me.
20:31 <@popey> cool
20:32 <@popey> I'm going to move on, then come back to questions
20:32 <@popey> Let's take Johns problem first. You can do this along with me now if you have web access - you will _not_ need a Launchpad account for this bit.
20:32 <@popey> SCENARIO 1: John is a new user to Ubuntu and he has a problem with his computer. His 1280x1024 screen doesn't seem to be running at the right resolution. 
20:32 <@popey> John simply visits http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ (or goes to http://launchpad.net/ then clicks "Answers", then clicks "Ubuntu")
20:33 <@popey> (of course he can follow links from the ubuntu.com home page too via "Support")
20:33 <@popey> John can then search for his problem. Type "resolution" in the search box at http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ then press "Search".
20:33 <@popey> You should see quite a few questions appear. 
20:33 <@popey> On the right there is a button which can be pressed to open a new question. This can be done if a few searches reveal no results.
20:33 <@popey> So if John wanted to ask a question, all he'd do is click the blue "Ask a question" button.
20:33 <@popey> However we have lots of results when searching so lets take a look at one already reported.
20:34 <@popey> Take a look at one specific example:- click on number 11110
20:34 <@popey> This should take you to:- https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/11110
20:34 <@popey> Here you can see a number of items of information:-
20:34 <@popey> . A subject in bold, a nice _meaningful_ subject. This helps a lot when looking for answers.
20:34 <@popey> . A short description of the problem. Note that the poster gave the specific hardware details, and also the version of Ubuntu being used. In addition they gave a list of things they've tried which didn't work. This information often helps get a speedy answer, and could be considered the minimum required when asking a question.
20:34 <@popey> . A reply from Cesare Tirabassi dated the same day. In it, Cesare doesn't try to talk through how to fix the problem, but instead refers to a document that already exists on the wiki. This is great because in the future someone else (like John) may come and find this question. 
20:35 <@popey>   If the reply had lots of technical detail, then it's possible the response may be no longer valid (possibly if screens, menus or programs change name)
20:35 <@popey> . A further reply from the original poster saying that the answer resolved the issue. This is great. It gives helpers some feedback that they are giving the right advice.
20:35 <@popey> Pretty much perfect example of an answers question :)
20:35 <@popey> Notice down the left there are some neat features.
20:35 <@popey> Under "Actions" (blue box) we can 
20:35 <@popey> . Edit the question (perhaps to fix the subject line if it wasn't clear).
20:36 <@popey> . View the entire history of the question
20:36 <@popey> . Subscribe to this single question so that we get email alerts when it is changed or updated
20:36 <@popey> . Link this question to a bug report - this can be useful where users report a problem as a question, but it's already a known bug. Bugs can be searched for in launchpad also. 
20:36 <@popey>  So you may actually find the bug yourself then link the question to the bug. Once you do that the user will get notifications of changes to the bug as well as the question.
20:36 <@popey> . Create bug report and link this question to it (assuming you have already searched and not found an appropriate one to link to)
20:37 <@popey> Under "Ubuntu question #11110"
20:37 <@popey> . You can see a summary of when the question was created, and who answered and solved it.
20:37 <@popey> Under Subscribers to question #11110"
20:37 <@popey> . The original poster (who asked the question) is subscribed
20:37 <@popey> . Lots of other people who are also subscribed (including me at the top :) )
20:37 <@popey> Subscription means that you get emails whenever this question is updated.
20:37 <@popey> You can of course unsubscribe to stop the mails
20:38 <@popey> Some of us are subscribed to all questions so we get a mail every time a new question is created, changed, answered, solved, reopened and so on.
20:38 <@popey> (we are "answer contacts")
20:38 <@popey> It's probably wise that most people _don't_ do that, you get a LOT of mail as a result.
20:38 <@popey> Note that the question is marked as "solved".
20:38 <@popey> This can be done by the person who asked the question.
20:38 <@popey> They can choose to wait for more answers, or tick that the question is solved, and that way other people won't bother wasting time answering it.
20:39 <@popey> And other people reading this question will easily find the "right" answer
20:39 <@popey> Typically a question goes from "Open" (just asked) to "Needs Information" (when an answer contact asks for more detail), then to "Open" again (when the detail is provided) then hopefully "Answered" followed by "Solved".
20:39 <@popey> However it can bounce back and forth many times before a question becomes "Solved".
20:39 <@popey> Questions can also be tagged as invalid if they are for example duplicates or spam.
20:40 <@popey> Ok, time for some more questions
20:40 <@popey>  < dorto> QUESTION: Is there a *compelling* reason you think can justify adding yet another source of community support? FAQ can be collected and stickied on forums too; product 
20:40 <@popey>                   developers can be requested to participate on forums instead of answers, forums are also browseable/searchable without logging in and tagging can be added.
20:40 <@popey> answers is linked to packages and products in launchpad
20:41 <@popey> so in _one_ place you can see the code, translation, bug reports and answers
20:41 <@popey> it's also only "another" source of community support for those people who don't _already_ use it
20:41 <@popey> for me the forums are _another_ source of community support
20:41 <@popey> it's all about perspective
20:41 <@popey> < dgjones> QUESTION: How difficult is it to avoid duplication of similar bug reports by different people when the wording or terminology is slightly different or maybe written by people  with varied native languages?
20:42 <@popey> You can mark a question as invalid and link to another question that has already been answered
20:42 <@popey> or link to a bug
20:42 <@popey> another benefit of launchpad is that answers are assigned to their packages
20:42 <@popey> (I'll show that in just a moment)
20:43 <@popey>  < DShepherd> QUESTION: Who is responsible for administering the statuses for each Q&A entries and how do they determine which status is appropriate?
20:43 <@popey> When a question is initially opened it is in status "open"
20:43 <@popey> When someone types a reply they have two buttons "Add answer" and "add information request"
20:43 <@popey> if you click "add answer" the status changes to "answered"
20:44 <@popey> if you hit "add information request" (maybe to find out what version of ubuntu they are on) the status changes to "Needs information"
20:44 <@popey> then the original poster gets to choose which answer was "right" or "more right" and tags that as solved
20:44 <@popey> the one that was "right" gets highlighted
20:44 <@popey> so others can see which was the right answer
20:44 <@popey> (something the forums don't do)
20:45 <@popey> for example if I visit the forums I might find a question with answers spanning 20 pages, and I have no clue which is the most right answer
20:45 <@popey> with the answer tracker it is up to the person askingt the question to just tick which was the most right answer
20:45 <@popey> in addition there is a janitor that cleans out questions that are dormant
20:45 <@popey> that is ones that have had little or no activity, and are not solved yet
20:46 <@popey> the questioner can re-open them to "bump" them up and maybe get someone to look at hem
20:46 <@popey> *them
20:46 <@popey>  < FayZee> QUESTION: I just visited https://answers.launchpad.net/, selected the "One project" option and clicked the "Choose" link ... nothing. Because the link is designed to launch a 
20:46 <@popey>                    JavaScript popup window and I prefer to surf with JS turned OFF. Any plans to include non-JS surfers such as myself?
20:46 <@popey> Speak to Kiko :)
20:46 <@popey> I don't develop Launchpad, I just use it
20:46 <@popey> sorry
20:47 <@popey>  < dorto> popey: Ok, that looks really cool :) QUESTION: Does it work like a wiki regarding how bug IDs are attached, removed(if it was wrongly attached) and maybe re-attached by any 
20:47 <@popey>                   user? Or only some people can attach bugs/code/etc?
20:47 <@popey> there's quite a bit of flexibility there yes
20:47 < enser762> hi :D
20:47 <@popey> you can attach multiple bug reports to an answer
20:47 <@popey> you can modify the question
20:47 <@popey> it does pretty much what you expect :)
20:47 < enser762> whats the rules?
20:47 < mbt> enser762: Please keep chat in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
20:48 <@popey> ok, my last few lines of prepared content, then if you have any more questions I'll deal with those at the end..
20:48 <@popey> SCENARIO 2: Ralph is an experienced user of Ubuntu, and he would like to give back to the community. Ralph isn't a developer though, but feels he has enough experience at a user level to be able to help other new users.
20:48 <@popey> To answer questions Ralph does need a logon to Launchpad. 
20:48 <@popey> So he should visit this page first:- https://launchpad.net/+login
20:48 <@popey> Once registered Ralph can just dive in and start answering questions.
20:49 < enser762> ok
20:49 <@popey> Ralph may have a lot of skill with one particular application, or one derivative of Ubuntu, in which case he may want to filter the questions to his speciality area.
20:49 <@popey> Alternatively Ralph can just visit http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ and scroll down until he finds questions he thinks he can answer.
20:49 <@popey> Don't worry if you can't answer many of the questions, someone else may be able to.
20:49 <@popey> In addition, there are some amazingly easy ones out there!
20:49 <@popey> You have to be quick to catch them though :)
20:50 <@popey> A nice benefit of launchpad is that when you do "stuff" like answer questions, you get given "karma", points if you like
20:50 <@popey> These don't really mean much other than give you a little reward, and *might* be considered when/if you apply for ubuntu membership :)
20:50 <@popey> It's also useful to filter the display to only show questions which are "Open".
20:51 <@popey> That way you wont see any "Solved" (no need for more detail), "Answered" (potentially solved), or "Needs Information" (waiting for a reply from the original questioner).
20:51 <@popey> To do that simply go to http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ then remove the tickboxes from everything except "Open" then press "Search" (with the search field blank).
20:51 <@popey> Start answering!
20:51 <@popey> Top tip: A considerable number of questions can be answered quite easiy with 30 seconds of google or wiki searching
20:51 <@popey> Honestly!
20:52 <@popey> SCENARIO 3: Dave is a developer of a product (Mythbuntu) that is supplied in the Ubuntu repository, and is managed through Launchpad. He wants to answer technical questions from his users, and keep those answers in a nice searchable location so that he can refer other users to that resource.
20:52 <@popey> There is a link in the top right of Daves product (Mythbuntu) page https://launchpad.net/mythbuntu/ to answers.
20:53 <@popey> This takes him to https://answers.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/
20:53 <@popey> It's a "helpdesk" system for his product, with zero effort on his part, it's a bonus of hosting his code on launchpad!
20:53 <@popey> awesome!
20:53 <@popey> Dave can then start answering questions, converting questions to bugs, and generally interact with his community of users through questions and answers in the same way that Ralph does for Ubuntu.
20:54 <@popey> There are many more features I don't have time to explain, so why not drop by and have a play for yourself :)
20:54 <@popey> Any questions?
20:54 <@popey>  < mbt> QUESTION:  So, you can use Launchpad for many non-Ubuntu things, too, is that right?
20:54 <@popey> you can use it for anything hosted in launchpad
20:54 <@popey> so yes, non-ubuntu products can also use it
20:55 <@popey> whilst launchpad is heavily used by the ubuntu project, the ultimate idea is that anyone can register any project (subject to T&C) on launchpad
20:55 <@popey> and use these great tools
20:55 <@popey>  < ttread> QUESTION: Is there any way to associate a question or answer with a specific release or platform?
20:55 <@popey> Good question!
20:55 <@popey> There are deliberately few tags, or fields for people to fill in
20:56 <@popey> that is a pain in some ways because often the first thing you ask people is "what release, which video card, what application"..
20:56 <@popey> ..but people actually are pretty bright and know there is some minimum level of detail they need to give
20:56 <@popey> and they mostly do
20:56 <@popey> Yeah, okay you sometimes get questions like "My ubontoo don't work. HELP!!!"
20:57 <@popey> but they are luckily few and far between
20:57 <@popey> and you have to take into account that these people may never have used a formal support system before
20:57 <@popey> so we cut them some slack :)
20:57 <@popey>  < musashi1> QUESTION: adding code tags doesn't seem an option. any plans to make that a bit easier?
20:57 <@popey> so you can paste logs and such? yes, that would be neat
20:58 < musashi1> or terminal output
20:58 <@popey> indeed
20:58 <@popey> it can sometimes be difficult to read
20:58 <@popey> however I usually read launchpad answers in my email client so it's less of an issue
20:59 <@popey> the point that came up earlier, that some people don't like to answer questions in a web forums, but prefer to use mailing lists and such..
20:59 < musashi1> i'm the opposite
20:59 <@popey> sure, that's the great thing! we have choice
20:59 <@popey> one person chooses forums, another chooses mailing lists
20:59 <@popey> we all get the job done in the end
20:59 <@popey> \o/ yay free software
21:00 <@popey>  < mbt> QUESTION:  If a project chooses to host their things with LP, how easy is it to set up an Answers "portal" (Is that the right word?) for the project?
21:00 <@popey> you don't have to do anything I don't think. It just works
21:00 <@popey> kiko?
21:00 <@popey> (I think thats the case, kiko can confirm)
21:02 <@popey> well there's only 5 mins left
21:02 <@popey> thanks for listening and being so polite and asking great questions everyone!
21:02 <@popey> http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
21:02 <@popey> http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
21:02 <@popey> http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
21:02 <@popey> :)
21:03 <@popey> If you have any more questions, feel free to ping me on irc
21:05 < peppych> thanks to you popey nice session. I definitively have to hang more out on LP. you guys convinced me ;)
21:05 <@popey> \o/
21:06 < nixternal> popey: you didn't offer them money again did you?
21:06 < Daviey> popey: good session!
21:06 < peppych> lol
21:07 < BonesolTeraDyne> Thanks popey