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Ubuntu Open Week - The Future of the Ubuntu Desktop - Ted Gould - Thu, May 1, 2008

=== jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week | Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | How to ask questions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Rules | Ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefaced with "QUESTION:" |See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/JoiningIn to filter out channel noise | "The Future of the Ubuntu Desktop" - Ted Gould

[19:59] <jcastro> Next up is Ted Gould, with "The Future of the Ubuntu Desktop"

[19:59] <jcastro> This one is going to be awesome. :D

[19:59] <ted1> Uh, oh, now that's pressure :)

[20:00] <jcastro> ted1: go ahead and begin!

[20:00] <ted1> Ah, okay.

[20:00] <ted1> Welcome everyone.

[20:00] <ted1> My name is Ted Gould and I'm on the Ubuntu Desktop team.

[20:01] <ted1> Today I'd like to talk a little about the team, and in general about the Ubuntu Desktop.

[20:01] <ted1> One of the things that I think it is interesting to see about the Ubuntu Desktop is that it is really 
an instance of the GNOME desktop.

[20:02] <ted1> But, yet has it's own identity, and that difference is something that we find very important.

[20:02] <ted1> That doesn't mean that we don't like GNOME, but it means that we don't have to be a straight up copy of 
GNOME either.

[20:02] <ted1> In general, we've been pretty quiet for this last release as we've viewed the LTS as an opus for the 
current ideas, not a place to try new ones.

[20:03] <ted1> So for Intrepid we'd like to focus on getting some new things out there, and to start planning for 
goals for the next LTS.

[20:03] <ted1> Which we plan to be another great work, culminating all of the ideas that have come together over that 
time.

[20:03] <ted1> I like to say that we're planing for 8.10 and 10.8 at the same time :)

[20:04] <ted1> One of the key places to go for information on the Desktop Team is our wiki page:

[20:04] <ted1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam

[20:04] <ted1> (just pasted that in the wrong chat, oops :) )

[20:05] <ted1> There we want to start working on planning for the next LTS, and looking at this through the lens of 

designing user exeriences.
[20:05] <ted1> So, we want to focus on how a user accomplishes a task rather than the tools that are used to do that.


[20:06] <ted1> You can find some of the experiences that have been written up so far here: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Experiences

[20:06] <ted1> While those are the beginning, we expect define and work on those at both UDS and beyond.


[20:07] <ted1> I imagine they won't be 100% complete until the next LTS is shipped :)

[20:07] <ted1> Questions on anything so far?

[20:07] <jcastro> < Solarion> ACTUAL QUESTION: How will RedHat and SuSE's ignoring of the consumer desktop work with 
Canonical's support-based  business model?

[20:08] <ted1> Solarion: Well, I think that it comes down to Ubuntu and RedHat/SuSE look at the business very 
differently.

[20:08] <ted1> We're all basically using support based business models, but it comes down to how you handle the ratio 
of how much money you make per customer, and base your expenses off of that.

[20:09] <ted1> So we're more focused on making $1 off every Ubuntu user (buy a T-shirt ;) ) while they're more focused 
on getting $1000/year corporate contracts.

[20:09] <ted1> Their model doesn't work for the consumer market.

[20:10] <ted1> So, I think they'll continue to do what they do best, and we'll continue to innovate on the consumer 
space.

[20:10] <ted1> jcastro: next

[20:10] <jcastro> multiple question

[20:10] <jcastro> QUESTION: Hi Ted! Do you think this -> http://www.silverwingsonline.com/ubuntu1.jpg will become 

reality any time soon?  It will be nice to have such a futuristic desktop ;)

[20:10] <jcastro> and

[20:10] <jcastro> QUESTION: Will AWN be default in Ubuntu desktop on the next release, 8.10?

[20:12] <ted1> I don't think that we have any specific goals right now, or a definite look.

[20:12] <ted1> I would say that looking at both of those we have a lot of the same ideas, so I wouldn't be surprised 
if what we eventually ship has many of those ideas.

[20:12] <ted1> One of the things that we want to focus on is being able to support smaller and larger displays well.

[20:13] <ted1> Which isn't currently done.

[20:13] <ted1> A good example of that is how the panel resizes.

[20:13] <ted1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PanelResize

[20:13] <ted1> As you can see in many of those screenshots, things look pretty bad as the panels get larger.

[20:13] <ted1> But, most of it isn't the panel's fault.

[20:14] <ted1> What happens is that many of the panel applets or applications with notify icons don't handle the 
resize events correctly.

[20:14] <ted1> Or, in some cases they don't ship with appropriate icons.

[20:14] <ted1> And that's something we'd definitely like to fix.

[20:15] <ted1> And I think that segways to a lot of how we see the desktop team interacting with upstream projects 
like GNOME.

[20:15] <ted1> Our goal isn't to be the "Project X" upstream, it's to help all of the upstreams that are coming to the 
Desktop.

[20:15] <jcastro> < Solarion> QUESTION: How far are you willing to drift from upstream?

[20:16] <ted1> So if we could have a patch to all of the apps we ship that implemented resizing the icon, that would 
be great.

[20:16] <ted1> I think drift is an interesting thing there.

[20:16] <ted1> There are practical limits, in that we're just not that big.  We simply can't replace all of the 
upstream development that is done.

[20:17] <ted1> But I could see us doing things like perhaps replacing the panel.

[20:17] <ted1> I don't see that happening real soon as upstream is interested in redoing that also, but I think it 
shows the size of what we could accomplish well.

[20:17] <ted1> Not a huge amount of code, but a significant visual impact.
[
20:18] <ted1> For instance one of the ideas that has been floating around on the art side is to try and make the panel 
icons dual-tone, and then use color for notification.

[20:19] <ted1> For example your battery level could be black, but then if it becomes critical it turns red.

[20:19] <ted1> But, this would require a patch, in that the panel is not specifically themeable.

[20:19] <ted1> We would prefer if upstream would take that so we wouldn't drift at all, but if they don't, we could 
maintain it in our packaging.

[20:20] <ted1> jcastro: next?

[20:20] <jcastro> < tonyyarusso> QUESTION:  Does Ubuntu have any plans to look into more radical things like BumpTop, 
and if so, will they be helping to develop [an open source version of] them?

[20:20] <jcastro> http://www.bumptop.com/

[20:21] <ted1> Well, we're trying to be radical in a non-radical way :)

[20:21] <ted1> I don't know if you're familiar with MacSlow's project (I can't think of the name)

[20:22] <ted1> But basically it is a visual way to move files and group them using OpenGL and a very graphical way of 
moving the mouse.

[20:22] <ted1> We'd love to see that integrated into a nautilus view, but still provide the other nautilus views for 
people with older machines and who prefer a more familiar experience.

[20:23] <ted1> While we love bling, we need to keep in mind that one of the selling features of Linux has always been 
it's ability to run on lower end machines.

[20:23] <ted1> We can't loose that advantage, or atleast we need to provide a good experience for those who don't have 
the latest and greatest hardware.

[20:23] <ted1> jcastro: next

[20:23] <jcastro> < Solarion> QUESTION: Are you planning to do some of the cool things that can be done with 
Empathy/Telepathy?

[20:24] <ted1> Yes!

[20:24] <ted1> I hope that we can do a lot more of that.

[20:24] <ted1> But, I dont' think that we've decided on exactly how, but we really want to get the accounts integrated 
into the desktop.

[20:25] <ted1> The reality is that people's contacts are more important that religrated to a specific application.

[20:25] <ted1> I think taht social networking sites have shown us that.

[20:25] <ted1> jcastro: next.  I think everyone is going through my outline :)

[20:26] <jcastro> heh

[20:26] <jcastro> < artir> QUESTION: Are you planning to have only 1 panel?

[20:26] <jcastro> and related: < eragon> QUESTION: Will Gimpie panel be integrated in the next release, or some other 
time?

[20:27] <jcastro> he means Gimmie

[20:27] <jcastro> Lots of panel/dock questions today!

[20:28] <ted1> One panel is an interesting idea, it comes down there are four corners of the display that are very 
important as they are easy to get to.

[20:28] <ted1> So, while we may not have a "panel" per se, we want to make sure that those are all used for something 
very useful for every user.

[20:29] <ted1> Today, we have "Applications", "Quit", "Show Desktop" and "Trash" in those corners.

[20:29] <ted1> Now those are all important, but taking up the horizontal space to make those corners useful, isn't 
necissarrily something we need.

[20:30] <ted1> So I think you'll see us move away from "2 panels" but we'll still use "4 corners"

[20:31] <ted1> Gimmie, that is definitely interesting, and I think that you'll see some of the ideas from it being 
used.

[20:31] <ted1> But I'm not sure that you'll seem Gimmie directly.

[20:31] <ted1> One of the beautiful things about Gimmie is that it puts what you're using right now directly 
available.

[20:31] <ted1> And we'd definitely like to see optimization on the "current task" throughout the desktop.

[20:32] <ted1> jcastro: More questions?  Or go through my outline some more?

[20:32] <jcastro> outline for a bit

[20:32] <ted1> Sounds good.

[20:32] <jcastro> then I will put in more questions

[20:33] <ted1> One of the things that Mark talked about in his Intrepid announcement is that we want to see more of a 
focus on networking for Intrepid.

[20:33] <ted1> One major part of that initiative is to start looking at things like Telepathy and Empathy, and trying 
to get them into the desktop more.

[20:34] <ted1> It is looking like they might become part of GNOME directly, which makes it easier for us, but I think 
that we'll start looking at them seriously for Intrepid irregardless.

[20:34] <ted1> Another thing that effects networking on the desktop is the GNOME project moving over to GIO.

[20:35] <ted1> GIO replaces the old GNOME VFS, and provides a cleaner interface for most applications to access things 
like network shares.

[20:35] <ted1> Or even odder devices like OBEX transfer to your phone.

[20:35] <ted1> But, that move is not complete.

[20:36] <ted1> So the reason I'd like to talk about it here, is that if there are people who want to contribute to the 
Ubuntu Desktop from a development perspective, this would be a great way to help us achieve our goals of seamless 
networking.

[20:36] <ted1> You can get information on the GIO Port: http://live.gnome.org/GioPort

[20:36] <ted1> And instructions on how to do it: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gio/2.15/ch15.html

[20:37] <ted1> What is important to realize here is that even though those links are very focused on the GNOME 
project, we ship many more applications than that

[20:37] <ted1> And for users, they don't understand what is GNOME and what isn't.

[20:37] <ted1> So for people who want to contribute, you don't need to do it directly with GNOME, it's helpful with 
any GTK+ project that is interested in moving over to GIO.

[20:38] <ted1> Oh, and going back a little...

[20:38] <ted1> One thing I also forgot to talk about regarding experiences.

[20:38] <ted1> One of the things that we'd like to do with experiences is both decide what we want the experience to 
be, but also record what it is.

[20:38] <ted1> What happens when someone plugs an iPod into a Hardy machine?

[20:39] <ted1> We're trying to start cataloging that information here: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Experiences/Current

[20:39] <ted1> This is another good way for people who want a small project can help with the Desktop team.

[20:39] <ted1> It takes a little longer than you'd expect, because you really need to create a new account with defaults, but what it does is help us determine where we are and where we're going.

[20:40] <ted1> So when we evaluate things like which CD burner we should be shipping with, we can see what we gain and 
what we loose in a fairly objective manner.

[20:41] <ted1> jcastro: I probably should shut up for a minute and let people ask questions :)

[20:41] <jcastro> ok

[20:41] <jcastro> < qrdhol> QUESTION: How will Ubuntu balance adding cool (possible complex) new features, yet still 
appeal to novices, i.e. the  human beings.

[20:42] <ted1> We like human beings :)

[20:42] <ted1> That's always a trick, and I think they key here is providing good defaults.

[20:42] <ted1> One of the things that we like to do is provide features like wobbly windows, but spare people from 
configuring Compiz.

[20:43] <ted1> So if you look at the desktop, there are settings that can be done, but not all of them.

[20:43] <ted1> And so I think we'll continue with that approach, providing reasonable defaults and visible config 
options.

[20:43] <jcastro> < johanbr> QUESTION: I think desktop bluetooth integration (in particular audio) is something that 
could still be improved. Are  there any plans for that?

[20:44] <ted1> But still providing ways to install more configuration options.

[20:44] <jcastro> ted1: we're running out of time and still have more questions so please type faster. :D

[20:44] <ted1> johanbr: We would really like that, I don't know of any hard core plans for that.

[20:45] <ted1> Things are getting better with bluetooth, but no, it's still not as good as an OS like OS X.

[20:45] <ted1> jcastro: next

[20:45] <jcastro> < Az32> QUESTION: Will be there a specific implementation of such thing like Ubuntu SDK? In this way 
the developers would have the  possibility to develop some kind of native-Ubuntu applications.

[20:46] <ted1> Az32: That's an interesting question, I don't think we've thought about that.

[20:47] <ted1> For the most part we're still using all upstream libraries, so there's not anything Ubuntu specific 
there.

[20:47] <ted1> Now, as far as documentation goes, I think that's a good idea, but not something we've done.

[20:48] <ted1> It'd be nice for developers to know what libraries would best integrate with Ubuntu in general.

[20:48] <ted1> jcastro: next.

[20:48] <jcastro> < seele> QUESTION: What are some ways you plan on improving these experiences and how can 
contributors help?

[20:49] <ted1> Well, the easiest answer is come to UDS :)

[20:49] <ted1> But, of course that isn't practical for a lot of people.

[20:49] <ted1> We will be continually discussing and revising them on the ubuntu-desktop mailing list.

[20:49] <ted1> And I'm sure they will be discussed in the Ubuntu Desktop team meetings.

[20:49] <ted1> Those are weekly on IRC in the #ubuntu-meeting channel.

[20:50] <ted1> Thursdays, about 6 hours earlier than this meeting started.

[20:50] <ted1> (adjust for local time :) )

[20:50] <ted1> I believe that they've been canceled between no and UDS, but they should pick up again right after.

[20:50] <ted1> s/no/now/

[20:51] <ted1> Basically, show up and make your voice heard! :)

[20:51] <ted1> jcastro: next

[20:51] <jcastro> < bryce> QUESTION:  What are the top 3 things that Ubuntu Desktop would like to see from Xorg?

[20:51] <ted1> Whew, that's a loaded question ;)

[20:51] <ted1> I think the first one is that we'd really like to see OpenGL work on multiple X instances so that fast 
user switching really works.

[20:52] <ted1> This helps in the most obvious case of multiple users, but it would also let us do things like keeping 
GDM on it's own display.

[20:52] <ted1> I'm going to side step the question a little bit and say that number two would be Linux kernel mode 
setting.

[20:52] <ted1> While not directly an X issue, it is a big user issue.

[20:53] <ted1> The fact that your screen changes as you go from BIOS, to upslash, to GDM -- it sucks.

[20:53] <ted1> Lastly, I think we'd really just like to see good drivers.

[20:53] <ted1> The reality is that most of the things that we want to do can be supported by older video hardware, the 
drivers just aren't that good for it.

[20:54] <ted1> While a lot of the "eye candy" you're seeing today is flashy, it doesn't require that much GPU power.

[20:54] <ted1> So, it really comes down to good drivers.

[20:54] <ted1> I don't know if that's an X thing or a hardware manufacturer thing though.

[20:54] <ted1> jcastro: next

[20:54] <jcastro> < eragon> QUESTION: Why don't you ship advanced desktop effects manager by default? People don't 
have to use it, since they can  also use appearance settings effects tab, but at least it will be available to people 
in a default installation,

[20:54] <jcastro> this will be the last question

[20:55] <ted1> Basically it comes down to having too much choice, you'd be surprised how confused people get.

[20:55] <ted1> There is a fun book on it called "The Paradox of Choice" -- mostly looking at consumer products, but it 
does apply to UI design also.

[20:56] <ted1> So, while we have no problem with users having those tools, if the majority of users don't use or need 
them, it doesn't make sense to put them in the default install.

[20:56] <ted1> It just makes unneeded confusing.

[20:56] <ted1> confusion.

[20:57] <ted1> And that goes directly to "support costs" of having things like lots more bug reports.

[20:57] <ted1> So basically it comes down to "don't have to use" doesn't really work.  They do use.

[20:58] <ted1> I want to thank everyone for coming.

[20:58] <ted1> And invite everyone to #ubuntu-desktop

[20:58] <jcastro> thanks ted!