• Standing agenda items:
  • Packaging of Aptivate's pmGraph

  • Low-connectivity areas -- updates in research?

    • Ubuntu NGO Interviews -- Update


  • kutukepik: how to write the wiki for ngo area
  • dholbach: to find out who to mail re server issues raised in NGO interviews, follow upon Nicolas Mail to be sent
  • dholbach: I'll take the action point of trying to look into something TODO like and how we can try to keep it updated
  • jimcooncat: update wiki with preseed installation setups
  • verng: to sent out a poll to find out what the groups interest is in
  • skellat: help clean up the No Connectivity page
  • czajkowski: continue NGO interviews


18:04 < dholbach> alright... let's kick off then - who wants to drive the meeting? who wants to keep the log and send it out/wikify it later on? :)
18:05  * dholbach is happy to drive
18:05 < dholbach> who wants to take care of logging/wikifying it?
18:05 < dholbach> ok, maybe let's worry about that afterwards :)
18:06 < czajkowski> I don't have time this wee, sorry! :(
18:06 < dholbach> let's start with a quick round of introductions - who you are what you're interested in and how you got here :-)
18:07 < czajkowski> Aloha, laura here from Ireland working on ubuntu interviews, got interested in this last May over at UDS and liking what I'm seeing
18:07 < james_w> hi, I'm James Westby, Ubuntu developer and interested in NGO stuff
18:07 < skellat> Hello, my name is Stephen Michael Kellat.  I'm based in Sheffield Township, Ohio.  I'm here as I've worked outside the US and as a degreed
                 librarian have a bit of a proprietary interest in fixing the digital divide.
18:07 < bac> hi i'm brad.  i work on launchpad and not currently involved with NGOs but am interested.
18:08 < kutukepik> hi, i am frans thamura, opensource activiist mostly java educator, Jakarta, Indonesia, use ubuntu as default development operating system
18:08 < Grantbow_> hi, Grant Bowman here from San Francisco.  I'm an Ubuntu Member, California LoCo contributor and contributor to an OLPC laptop.org
                   deployment to Madagascar going on right now.
18:08 < dholbach> andylockran, verng, Cracknel, jeroenimo, highvoltage, ccm, jimcooncat, matti, mathew, popey, ziroday, RobLoach, SWAT: what about you?
18:08 < popey> o/
18:08 < verng> Hi VernG a volunteer for group called HumaniNet.   Like groups interest on low bandwidth.    That is real world just last week talk someone
18:08 < matti> Hello, my name is Krzysztof Wilczynski (or KW in short; preferably matti). I am interested in NGO, as I am already participating in IT 4
               Charities in the UK.
18:09 < matti> Hi popey
18:09 < dholbach> I'm Daniel Holbach, Ubuntu Developer, interested in all NGO stuff and interested in making Ubuntu better for NGOs :)
18:09 < popey> Hello, I'm Alan Pope, I have no experience of working with NGOs, but have experience of Ubuntu, and want to help make Ubuntu better for NGOs
18:09  * dholbach high-fives all of you!
18:10 < dholbach> thanks all for coming - this is amazing
18:10 < matti> ;]
18:10 < dholbach> maybe we should start with a quick update on all the things we've been working on - that'd probably help with two agenda items on the list
18:10 < dholbach> ... and help newcomers to see who's working on what
18:10 < dholbach> so who wants to go first?
18:11 < kutukepik> i am mostly working in education and teach people to use opensource and make them familiar with, esp in development area
18:11 < kutukepik> what is segment for this?
18:11 < czajkowski> I've been working on interviewing NGO's and have interviewed 3 so far 2 last week, 1 was blogged about so far
                    http://www.lczajkowski.com/2009/09/15/an-interview-from-a-ngo-association-managers-perspective/  hoping to get the other 2 up this week
                    before holidays.  I've been asking them what they do, and their issues they've come up against
18:12 < dholbach> kutukepik: one area we'd like to improve is documentation for NGOs - some of them just don't know about "preferred solutions for handling
                  web/email/office-related stuff", some don't know how to set up some team information structure (like mailing lists)
18:12 < czajkowski> with that I tweeted/dented some issues, and one issues may be looked at by the server team, as a lot of ngos find the server not very
                    user friendly
18:12 < dholbach> kutukepik: so some of your experience in our wiki documentation would be a fantastic start already
18:12 < dholbach> and if it's just small wiki pages - it's a start :)
18:13 < dholbach> czajkowski: that sounds great - thanks for working on those interviews - do you need access to that wordpress blog?
18:13 < dholbach> if so, just tell me the email address you've been using with wordpress.com
18:13 < Grantbow_> jono: nice twitter
18:13 < jono> Grantbow_, :
18:13 < jono> :)
18:13 < dholbach> czajkowski: did the server team reply?
18:14 < matti> Hi jono
18:14 < czajkowski> dholbach: will do, but not sure I'll haev a chance, I've them drafted on my blog, and I think Jan may update the wiki
18:14 < jono> hey matti
18:14 < mathew> Hi, Mathew Chacko from India, a web app developer, an Ubuntu user and selected as a member of ICT committee of one of the biggest church in
18:14 < czajkowski> dholbach: Nicolas asked what were the issues the NGOS had specifcally wit the servers, so I copied him some of the points and he said
                    he'd pass it on
18:14 < qwebirc80596> wats ubuntu ngo?
18:14 < dholbach> czajkowski: if you need any help with that, please let me know, Paolo wanted to help too, Jan too, so we should find somebody :)
18:14 < kutukepik> how to write the wiki for ngo area, can give me the glue?
18:15 < czajkowski> dholbach: the main issues being it's not as easy as debian, documentaion is poor, and it's not as easy to follow. desktop has better
18:15 < highvoltage> qwebirc80596: check the URL's in the topic :)
18:15 < czajkowski> dholbach: excellet, what I might do is even get them up on my blog and they can use that and the logs to update the wiki /???
18:15 < dholbach> czajkowski: not as easy as Debian?
18:15 < qwebirc80596> ah Non-governmental organisation
18:15 < czajkowski> dholbach: yes.. ironic really
18:16 < ebel> czajkowski: which is silly cause server-wise ubuntu is practically identical as debian. L(
18:16 < dholbach> czajkowski: if you could let me know what the issue was there or the bug number or just a link that'd be good
18:16 < ebel> Any "Howto install X on Debian" guide is almost certainly going to work on Ubuntu Server.
18:16 < czajkowski> dholbach: want me to paste in here so everyone is on the same page
18:16 < dholbach> kutukepik: we started with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGO/Software but it's still pretty sparse
18:16 < czajkowski> hmm or paste.ubuntu.com
18:16 < czajkowski> 2 seconds
18:16 < dholbach> if you could note down some ideas there, that'd be great - or raise it on the mailing list, so people can discuss it with you
18:17 < dholbach> czajkowski: as you like it
18:17 < kutukepik> just questio, i think NGO for development country will push goverment to be more care to their citizen
18:17 < czajkowski> so here are some points from ngo re server issues http://paste.ubuntu.com/280548/
18:17 < dholbach> ok, thanks
18:17 < dholbach> was that on a mailing list or bug report somewhere?
18:17 < czajkowski> dholbach: they are nothing major b ut if we can help..
18:18 < czajkowski> dholbach: I didnt know who to mail....
18:18 < dholbach> ok, I'll find out
18:18 < dholbach> thanks czajkowski
18:18 < czajkowski> so I mailed nicolas as he commneted on fb he could show someone
18:18 < dholbach> cool :)
18:18 < dholbach> I'll have a look tomorrow
18:19 < dholbach> so here's my small update since the last meeting - I haven't had too much time unfortunately, so I just packaged a few more modules to get
                  us to include civicrm in Ubuntu at some stage
18:19 < dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGO/ApplicationPackaging has more detailed information of where we're standing
18:19 < dholbach> it's difficult work because one piece software includes another piece of software which bundles another piece of software, etc.
18:19 < jimcooncat> dholbach: you called?
18:20 < dholbach> and afterwards you still need to make sure that things work, etc.
18:20 < dholbach> but we're getting there... eventually
18:20 < highvoltage> (sorry I lost track of time and missed the first part of the meeting (and partiallly didn't realise that it was the meeting yet))
18:20 < dholbach> another problem is that licensing sometimes is not tip-top and I had a bunch of conversations with upstreams and they were willing to fix
18:20 < dholbach> also I've been trying to get a few of the modules into Debian so we all benefit from it
18:21 < czajkowski> jimcooncat: I mentioned your interview :)
18:21 < dholbach> jimcooncat: we just kicked off another Ubuntu NGO meeting and I thought you'd be interested in introducing yourself - thats what we
                  started with :)
18:21 < dholbach> anybody else who has been active in the last few weeks in Ubuntu NGO land?
18:21 < czajkowski> ebel: ^^
18:21 < dholbach> we have quite a bunch of people listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGO/Activities :)
18:21 < ebel> dholbach: yeah ish.
18:22 < ebel> I gave a talk at OSSBarCamp in Dublin about Offline Content.
18:22 < dholbach> ebel: how did it go?
18:22 < ebel> It was videoed but the video isn't online yet.
18:22 < jimcooncat> sorry I'm late. I help manage several non-profits in Maine, USA
18:22 < highvoltage> If I may budge in with a quick intro, I haven't done anything for Ubuntu-NGO but I am interested, having worked with and for NGO's in
                     the past
18:22 < dholbach> nice
18:22 < highvoltage> jimcooncat: what kind of non-profits?
18:22 < dholbach> ebel: how was it received?
18:23 < RobLoach> Introduction: Rob Loach, Developer. Ubuntu lover that uses Drupal to build pimp websites.
18:23 < ebel> I was just talking about my experience in using ubuntu with camara while in africa. I also covered things like how to use WIkipedia,
              openStreetmaps, ubuntu/debian documentation and apt offline
18:23 < jimcooncat> highvoltage: two trade associations, one intergovernmental association, two charities (plus some for-profits)
18:23 < dholbach> ebel: any folks that might want to join our ship and help us out? :)
18:23 < ebel> dholbach: I'm not sure.
18:24 < ebel> It was well recieved. I mentioned the ubuntu ngo group breifly.
18:24 < czajkowski> ebel: would any of the camara folks join in, surely any developments made they could use and help to get things done ?
18:25 < ebel> I'm not sure. I've mentioned ubuntu-ngo a few times to camara people.
18:25 < ebel> At the moment they are getting machines in front of people.
18:25 < dholbach> I get the feeling we need to get a lot better at saying what we need help with, break it down into small chunks and track status
18:26 < czajkowski> aye
18:26 < dholbach> that way people from "the outside" can quickly see what needs happening
18:26 < skellat> Amen
18:26 < dholbach> especially in the offline updating world or the documentation world I could imagine there's a few simple things that people could help out
18:26 < ebel> Yes.
18:26 < ebel> The best is sorta to go out and do it sometimes,.
18:26 < dholbach> who would like to set up some kind of TODO list for a specific area of stuff we're interested in? on the wiki
18:27 < ebel> Or make it reaaaal easy. "Run this command. Wait. Burn CD"
18:27 < dholbach> no, I think it's enough to have something like
18:27 < dholbach> || What || Who || Status ||
18:28 < dholbach> || document our preferred mail solutions || dholbach || started, just put a few links in there  ||
18:28 < dholbach> etc
18:28 < dholbach> nothing major, but just something to get started with :)
18:28 < dholbach> so who'd like to start that off for say documentation, OfflineMedia, ngo stories, etc?
18:29 < jimcooncat> I guess I don't understand the focus of this group -- would like to help out with the little free time I have, but I guess I don't get
                    where you're headed.
18:30 < skellat> jimcooncat: Whether you're a missionary or working for an aid group, you have the possibility of taking computing equipment into less than
                 hospitable lands.  Part of what is discussed is how to bridge gaps and allow for equivalent experiences for do-gooders in the field.
18:30 < ebel> dholbach: well I'm going to put up the video for the talk I did.
18:30 < dholbach> jimcooncat: the team is just a few weeks old now, the vision is to make Ubuntu better suited for NGOs - based on the interest we got in
                  meetings, mailing list discussions and so on, we picked a few things we thought we might easily help out with:
18:30 < ebel> That'll be a start.
18:30 < dholbach>  - documentation of best-practices and 'preferred solutions'
18:30 < bittin_> awesome =)
18:31 < dholbach>  - write up stories about NGOs that are using Ubuntu
18:31 < ebel> I think all improvements to Ubuntu will make NGOs (and everyone else) more likely to use FLOSS.
18:31 < dholbach>  - make it easier to work in areas with bad/little internet
18:31 < dholbach>  - bring in applications that might be useful for NGOs
18:31 < dholbach>  - etc. :)
18:31 < ebel> However I think one area that doesn't get a lot of love is offline stuff. Being able to stuff when offline.
18:31 < dholbach> jimcooncat: does that make more sense now?
18:31 < dholbach> ebel: great
18:32 < verng> preferred solutions also mean power products that would make low power computing possible in remote field locations
18:32 < ebel> In my talk I mentioned that only because wikipedia is CC licenced does it mean you can put it offline. Only cause ubuntu is floss can you make
              a CD of all the software.
18:32 < dholbach> ebel: if you have a few ideas already, it'd be great if you could note them down in a TODO section :-)
18:33 < dholbach> verng: we can sure do that, but I was initially mostly thinking of covering "just" the software part
18:33 < ebel> verng: I remember someone asking us if they could run a lab of computers off a marine battery.
18:33 < jimcooncat> dholbach: yes, it's wide ranging. I could probably work on preseed installation setups?
18:33 < skellat> As to power projects and the like, I suggest consulting "The ARRL Handbook" in its latest edition.  Ham radio ops have created unique field
                 power solutions for around 50 years now.
18:34 < ebel> jimcooncat: oh I've done a bit of stuff on that. :)
18:34 < dholbach> jimcooncat: if you have experience with that and can maybe just add a little bit of information about that on the wiki you'd be one of the
                  Ubuntu NGO Heroes!
18:34 < dholbach> and if we in the beginning merely collect links to good howtos, that'd be a good start too
18:35 < dholbach> as we'll help NGOs to find stuff they should be looking for
18:35 < verng> When comes to power, other accessories since I have not found a lot of good portals maybe we can just provide the links.   Making sure that
               we are focusing on powering up communication devices.
18:35 < dholbach> (instead of trying to set up 50 different mailing list solutions or something... :-))
18:36 < dholbach> it seems there was little interest in setting up TODO list like wiki pages... how do you think we can make it easier to note that stuff
                  down that needs doing and convey it to the outside world?
18:36 < skellat> verng: This is one of those cases where the material needed is more in print than online.
18:36 < dholbach> I'd really love to see this team a bit more organised (not that we're unorganised), so that it's move inviting and obvious what we're
                  there for
18:37 < jimcooncat> dholbach: As I've mentioned before, the term "NGO" isn't in the USA vocabulary
18:37 < dholbach> right
18:38 < dholbach> I was trying to get more to the point of organisation within the team, but maybe we can have a separate discussion at some stage about the
                  team name if we deem it necessary
18:38 < czajkowski> nods
18:39 < dholbach> ok, I'll take the action point of trying to look into something TODO like and how we can try to keep it updated
18:39 < dholbach> any more updates from last few weeks?
18:39 < dholbach> if not, I'd pass on the mic to james_w who wants to talk about pmGraph
18:40 < czajkowski> is james_w here?
18:41 < james_w> hi
18:42 < dholbach> james_w: you wanted to talk about pmgraph?
18:42 < james_w> I did
18:42 < james_w> just wanted to make sure there were no more updates :-)
18:43 < dholbach> ah ok - looks like there are none :)
18:43 < james_w> so, my friends at aptivate have developed this thing called pmGraph
18:43 < james_w> they are keen to get it in to Ubuntu proper, they currently distribute it in a PPA
18:44 < dholbach> is this the right link: http://www.aptivate.org/Projects.BMOTools.pmGraph.html ?
18:44 < james_w> so would somebody like to help them through that process?
18:44 < james_w> yeah
18:44 < james_w> https://launchpad.net/~pmgraph is their launchpad team and PPA
18:45 < dholbach> james_w: I'm a bit short on time, but I guess I could take it on together with jcastro
18:45 < dholbach> james_w: where do you think will NGOs benefit from it?
18:45 < james_w> yeah, I failed to help them in time for the Karmic freeze
18:46 < james_w> well, they would have a better distribution mechanism and more exposure for their tool :-)
18:46 < czajkowski> james_w: but how would this help the NGO, what benefit to them
18:46 < verng> james will it help people with devices like satellite phones attached to laptops decide which apps are most efficient over low bandwidth
18:47 < dholbach> james_w: it sure looks interesting though - I was mostly interested in your opinion on where it could best help
18:47 < james_w> I guess the best thing to do would be to contact them to ask about where they see the tool being valuable
18:48 < dholbach> ok
18:48 < dholbach> I can do that
18:48 < james_w> at least they are using a PPA :-)
18:48 < dholbach> cool, thanks james_w
18:48 < james_w> it may be the best distribution mechanism in this case, but they approached me and asked for help
18:48 < james_w> thanks for your time
18:48 < dholbach> did we cover everything on the meeting agenda?
18:49 < dholbach> if so, I'd be interested to hear what you are willing to put some time into in the next weeks
18:49 < czajkowski> #
18:49 < czajkowski> Low-connectivity areas -- updates in research?
18:49 < czajkowski> was that covered or did I miss it
18:50 < skellat> czajkowski: I put that down
18:51 < dholbach> skellat: oh... I thought we covered all the updates in the ngo team already - alright... the floor is yours
18:51 < verng> regarding low connectivity anyone seen or used the AA powered Norhtec netbook   Just curious
18:52 < dholbach> nope
18:52 < skellat> Yikes, okay.  Just a few quick points.  As I noted previously on the listserv, D-STAR is not a viable technology except at microwave
                 frequencies.  Further investigation of WinLink 2000 would be advisable (see: http://www.winlink.org/ ).  There are some papers I'm starting
                 to dig into so unless anybody else has something I just ask that we avoid "not invented here" syndrome.
18:54 < dholbach> skellat: can you please, briefly, let us know what you're looking into there? I'm not sure what Ubuntu does with microwave frequencies and
                  how we could best improve that?
18:54 < skellat> Okay, when D-Star was listed as a technology to investigate for off-line situations...there are some problems with that.
18:54 -!- qwebirc42210 is now known as d1337r
18:55 < skellat> It only works in line of sight situations and doesn't really improve connectivity for any NGO group using it.
18:55 < dholbach> I personally have no idea what d-star is, is it software that we have in Ubuntu or should have there?
18:55 < skellat> It's on the wiki referenced under your task area
18:56 < dholbach> well... that's not my task area :)
18:56 < skellat> Ah
18:56 < dholbach> or at least no exclusively :)
18:56 < skellat> Let's park this agenda item then and leave it to listserv discussion as IRC isn't conducive to it.  It is too complicated and in-depth.
18:57 < skellat> The wiki page referenced, of course, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NGO/NoConnectivity
18:57 < czajkowski> dholbach: myself and jan are waiting on a few more ngos to contact us back regarding scheduling of interviews, time differences and
                    getting folks together proves a tad difficult, also nothing will get done for the next 12 days as I'm gone.
18:58 < dholbach> skellat: did you find anybody who'd be interested in helping out with that? I personally don't know 1) what it does and 2) what we could
                  improve in Ubuntu for it
18:58 < dholbach> czajkowski: ok... do you need some help with anything or is everthing ticking on nicely?
18:59 < czajkowski> dholbach: myself and jan are waiting on a few more ngos to contact us back regarding scheduling of interviews, time differences and
                    getting folks together proves a tad difficult, also nothing will get done for the next 12 days as I'm gone.
18:59 < dholbach> everybody else: what NGO team related are you going to put some time into in the next weeks? :)
18:59 < dholbach> czajkowski: ok... so you don't need any help?
18:59 < czajkowski> if anyone has any other groups you'd like myself or Jan to contact let us know
19:00 < skellat> dholbach: The relevant page notes: "We need to investigate D-STAR. This is a technology that can give you ~128Kbs via long range radio
                 signals. Linux drivers exist."  Wearing my other hat as a ham radio operator, I can say that it won't help Ubuntu in the way it appears
                 contemplated although I'm willing to discuss it further.
19:00 < czajkowski> dholbach: I may need help getting the wiki updated with the logs but that's about it
19:01 < dholbach> skellat: I'm sorry - I don't know who put it on that page and can say much about the technology there
19:01 < czajkowski> I'll post to the list, jan may help out of he has time?
19:01 < czajkowski> dholbach: thanks :)
19:01 < dholbach> czajkowski: that sounds great - hope you find a few new contributors to that effort :)
19:01 < czajkowski> if folks want another meeting at the end of oct let me know and I'll do up another doodle for times and dates?
19:01 < skellat> dholbach: That's fine, further discussion of such by me will be left to the listserv for now.
19:01 < dholbach> anybody else? what are things you'd be interested in working on in the next weeks?
19:02 < dholbach> czajkowski: that'd be sweet :)
19:02 < dholbach> I guess we need more regular meetings
19:02 < dholbach> skellat: thanks for looking into this
19:03 < dholbach> personally, I'll try to get some more of the packaging done and hope we can soon start testing the packaged civicrm
19:03 < skellat> dholbach: I'll try to help clean up the No Connectivity page.  I recorded a feature in this area yesterday:
19:03 < czajkowski> dholbach: we should aim for once a month, anything more sooner, really at this stage is pointless?
19:03 < dholbach> also I'll try to get some more people involved at the Ubuntu Global Jam in Berlin and see if they can help with some simple packaging tasks
19:03 < czajkowski> your loco rocks
19:03 < dholbach> skellat: cool! thanks :)
19:04 < czajkowski> re meeting time, earlier or later?
19:04 < dholbach> czajkowski: the first time I had the same feeling when I had 40 people at the first ubuntu release party in my appartment
19:04 < dholbach> czajkowski: doodle?
19:04 < czajkowski> dholbach: the meeting thing, but just so I try and put more times in to suits folks,
19:04 < dholbach> czajkowski: yeah that sounds good
19:04 < czajkowski> dholbach: you must have a massive apt :p
19:05 < dholbach> czajkowski: not really! :)
19:05 < dholbach> czajkowski: I just didn't expect that many :)
19:05 < dholbach> alright
19:05 < skellat> dholbach: When shall we meet next?
19:06 < dholbach> skellat: I think czajkowski is going to set up a doodle poll and let us know via mailing list
19:06 < czajkowski> skellat: I'll send out a mail to the list, with a date/time poll for folks to fill in
19:06 < dholbach> so folks can fill out which time suits them best
19:06 < dholbach> shall we aim for something in 4 weeks?
19:06 < skellat> As long as we avoid Halloween, we should be good.
19:07 < dholbach> seems like we covered updates from last meeting, agenda items and what we're going to work on next - if anybody isn't sure what they
                  should be working on or something, please let the mailing list know! :-)
19:07 < czajkowski> shall post out dates from 8- 29 th october
19:07 < verng> using doodle what about finding out people's area of primary interest in Ubuntu-NGO
19:07 < czajkowski> verng: you can do up a poll and send to list if you like?
19:09 < dholbach> alright... any other business?

NGO/Meeting/20090928 (last edited 2009-10-02 15:58:16 by cpe-68-173-227-236)