This is the 8th meeting of the UKTeam, starting at 21:00 GMT and finishing at 22:30 GMT

Attendance

Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. Active Attendees:

LoudMouthMan ( NikButler , Chairing ) , popey, Deiaccord, Dsas, Daviey,Bagnaj97, jamesbrose, sheepeatingtaz, Dave-ubu. Others were within the chat room but remained idle

Agenda

When adding an agenda item please "sign" it by leaving your name next to it. If you won't be attending the meeting please also spell out your item in detail, otherwise we can't fruitfully discuss it.

• Ubuntu-UK Team Leader, is it time to vote do we want one or many people NikButler asks the question.

• Ops for the IRC channel, NikButler proposes to spread the load a little more and would like to Nominate Seeker`

Minutes

'Ubuntu-UK Team Leader' It was agreed that we would create a new Page on the wiki in which names roles and current people occupying those this page called UKTeam/Contact Contact and this will be published and discussed on the Forums and mail list as much as appropriate.

'Ops for the IRC channel' It was agreed that Gazzak, Seeker and Daviey would be upgraded to OP status on the IRC channel #ubuntu-uk

Any Other Business

no other directions or topics were raised and with that the meeting was closed.

Guide Lines

The chairman of the meeting should endeavour to ensure that key points are discussed in an appropriate time. Key Topics from the Agenda should be tabled in the channel using a market such as [ TOPIC ] or * TOPIC * Followed by the agenda item. Where Suggestions or Ideas are put forward and considered as acceptable to the group then it should be noted by the Chairman as [ IDEA ] or * IDEA * . Where a concept is discussed and agreed the use of [ AGREED ] or * AGREED * should be defined by the chairman and should signify the topic is discussed and the meeting is to move on. Be clear on the channel when the meeting is concluded and how and when the minutes will be posted.

IRC LOGS

<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:57. The chair is LoudMouthMan.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<LoudMouthMan> thats a little early but for now it gives people time to turn up .
<jamesbrose> got 1 minute :)
<AndrewWilliams> just enough time for me to grab a hotcross bun :)
<daviey> easy tiger
<LoudMouthMan> According to moot bot just about 4 hours <grin>
<AndrewWilliams> yah, its US time :/
<jamesbrose> hehe
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<AndrewWilliams> I would adjust it to UTC but it keeps putting it back :)
<daviey> Can we sit anywhere, or is it designated seating?  I'll ask the chairman
<LoudMouthMan> Okay . so . can we bring the meeting to order theres only a couple of items here.
<deiaccord> any did anyone bring biscuits?
<daviey> I have some Rich Teas
 I'll put a call out to the misses to bring some Tea's/Coffee through
<LoudMouthMan> Can I get a present from the room just so we initially know who is listening in . 
<deiaccord> PRESENT
<dsas> here
<GazzaK> present
<Dave-ubu> PRESENT
* Bagnaj97 hands LoudMouthMan a gift
<daviey> PRESENT
 sir
<jamesbrose> PRESENT
<sheepeatingtaz> Present
<GazzaK> but going onto laptop
* Dave-ubu salutes
<-- GazzaK has quit ()
<LoudMouthMan> hey Popey you around ?
<popey> yes
<LoudMouthMan> good . 
 right lets begin 
<popey> uh-oh
<LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Ubuntu-UK Team Leader, is it time to vote do we want one or many people
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu-UK Team Leader, is it time to vote do we want one or many people
<popey> ooo
 oh, meeting
 hahah
<AndrewWilliams> lol
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<LoudMouthMan> Now we have formed the UKTeam and we have members being voted in as we speak .. well done Schwuk. 
<deiaccord> How many people would be interested in being part of the leadership?
<LoudMouthMan> so ive been acting as a unofficial Leader in respect to being the loco contact alone. 
<popey> the roles need defining first
 before any vote takes place
<ubot3> New news from planetuk: Dave Murphy: Joining the club <http://schwuk.com/articles/2007/3/20/joining-the-club>
<popey> the duration and scope too
<daviey> There are quite a few people who are members of the UK LoCo, who would want to be a bigger part of it
<LoudMouthMan> I am interested in continuing this until LWE2007 as a main loco contact. However we did discuss having a vote and I am open to a discussion and democratic avenue.
<popey> i would say we need to figure out what roles there are to have..
 .. team contact ..
<LoudMouthMan> My Personal view is that there are  many roles which should be distributed and shared and this includes loco contact . 
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<popey> .. web master ..
<GazzaK> right, sorry for that, present again
<LoudMouthMan> however I would like to keep this discussion to the one role ...loco contact .
<Bagnaj97> Head of UK translations? (not that there's much to change)
<popey> .. finance officer ..
 .. general officer ..
 Bagnaj97: there is a translation team
 we generally dont get involved in translations as the UKTeam per-se
<LoudMouthMan> from there we can talk about other issues such as IRC, Mail list, Forums , Web access  ; popey any others ?
<dsas> uhm, I don't think we need to get that bogged down in beaurocracy.
<LoudMouthMan> so can we keep the topic on Loco-Contact , who is unofficially considered UK Leader. 
<popey> define beaurocracy dsas ?
<dsas> I think we should get the number of "official roles" down to a minimum.
<GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, did you want to stay as the loco contact, or did you want more people to be the contacts?
<LoudMouthMan> talking to much and 
<GazzaK> erm, I thought you were the loco contact LoudMouthMan
<dsas> most teams have just "loco contact and/or a loco leader".
<popey> dsas: my local lug has a chairman, finance officer, mailing list admin, web master and 2 general officers
 and that covers *one* county
 not the whole UK
<dsas> there are exceptions for the bigger loco teams. e.g. the italian team have a small council.
<LoudMouthMan> Gazzak thanks. I actually wanted to ask popey if we could share the lococontact address as an alias. 
<dsas> I don't think we should create positions until there is a clear need for them.
<popey> dsas: what makes you think there isnt
<jamesbrose> dsas, I agree
<LoudMouthMan> lets not worry about .. what . lets just have the initial conversation . do we want to open this conversation up?
<X3N> I agree too
<popey> there needs to be someone responsible for the website
 and a chairman
<daviey> +1
<popey> at *least*
<Dave-ubu> more to the point - is there any areas that need "help" at this time ?
<LoudMouthMan> right hold up all please.
<daviey> Every area needs help.
<LoudMouthMan> one step back . from the debate. the topic is about loco-contact.
<deiaccord> Other areas could be voted on seperatly, or nominated by loco-leader
<LoudMouthMan> indeed.
<popey> umm
<LoudMouthMan> Currently it is just me . we should be able to run the lococontact as a alias could we not ?
<dsas> LoudMouthMan: that is probably a good idea.
<popey> contact @ ubuntu-uk.org
<LoudMouthMan> bingo .... popey
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<X3N> bung it off to the mailing list ;)
<deiaccord> or you could have loco-contact and loco-leader (for use if the contact is on holiday or whatever)
 unless you consider the two to be the same position?
<LoudMouthMan> the point is . if we want to discuss this we Must include mail list and forum people as well . 
<popey> uhm
 no
<LoudMouthMan> oh and wiki people.
<popey> that is the point of a meeting
 put it on the agenda
<deiaccord> popey: agreed
<daviey> agree with popey -
<popey> if people dont turn up tough shit
<LoudMouthMan> hmmm okay let me re-explain .
<deiaccord> it is on te agenda
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<deiaccord> ahh, thats loco-leader not contact
<LoudMouthMan> i dont believe everyone on the forums/maillist pays attention to the agenda.
<daviey> If people are not here we make changes; if they are not happy then they can call for a reform next meeting
<LoudMouthMan> but I am willing to accept that that is  "tough" but i feel it needs addressing .
<dsas> I think issues like governance deserves time to think and wider thinking than what gets decided over the next couple of hours.
<popey> *exactly* what I was saying
<deiaccord> we could vote and submit the results of teh vote to the list/forums/wiki
<popey> we need to talk about the roles *first*
<daviey> launchpad has built in annon voting
<LoudMouthMan> dsas thats my concern . popey I know. but what I was saying was also the issue . 
 as popey points out there is no good voting mechanism ..
<daviey> whats wrong with lp?
<LoudMouthMan> to be honest I dont know . but i do know that no matter what you do there will be people to tell us what was done wrong.
<dsas> daviey: it only really does "first past the post," voting. Which some may see as a limitation. Also it is easily gamed.
 but that's true for every communication method we have :)
<LoudMouthMan> Id like to see more people involved in the meetings but that  a topic for another agenda. 
<popey> there are better ways dsas
 without wishing to labour the point my local lug has done all this already
<LoudMouthMan> so i dont feel that we are proportional in representing the values of the whole community .. but we might be respective of the active community.
<popey> for a few years
<LoudMouthMan> sure popey . but my local lug hasnt for all the same reasons.
<daviey> Okay, just so i understand where this point is heading; are we *just* trying to agree that we need defined roles; that will be sorted ata later date?
<LoudMouthMan> but I do feel we need some mechanism to handle things responsibly and openly
<popey> thats what I'm suggesting.. define roles first
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<LoudMouthMan> okay popey can i put that to a vote ? about roles ? 
<dsas> uhm, what are we voting on?
* LoudMouthMan casts remember how to do stuff with mootbot.
<LoudMouthMan> okay lets have a vote here and now . 
<popey> uhm
 can we decide on a vote before we vote
<LoudMouthMan> the vote starts when i put a brackets vote and ask the question about should we agree roles ?
<popey> other wise its like Who wants to be a millionair fastest finger first
<LoudMouthMan> sure . okay
 watching tv again popey .. that one went way overme head <grin>
 gotcha !
<daviey> can we establish the question first?
<LoudMouthMan> heheh 
<dsas> so the question is "should we define roles?"
<LoudMouthMan> thats the one.
 okay here goes .
<daviey> trific
<dsas> sounds like a no brainer.
<daviey> thats me out then
<LoudMouthMan> [VOTE] Should we define the roles for Ubuntu-UK . type +1 for yes, -1 for no and dont type to abstain. I will end the vote at a suitable time.
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Should we define the roles for Ubuntu-UK . type +1 for yes, -1 for no and dont type to abstain. I will end the vote at a suitable time..
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<LoudMouthMan> -1
<MootBot> -1 received from LoudMouthMan. 0 for, 1 against. Count is now -1
<popey> +1
<daviey> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from popey. 1 for, 1 against. Count is now 0
 +1 received from daviey. 2 for, 1 against. Count is now 1
<Dave-ubu> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Dave-ubu. 3 for, 1 against. Count is now 2
<jamesbrose> +1
<deiaccord> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from deiaccord. 4 for, 1 against. Count is now 3
 +1 received from jamesbrose. 5 for, 1 against. Count is now 4
<dsas> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dsas. 6 for, 1 against. Count is now 5
<Bagnaj97> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Bagnaj97. 7 for, 1 against. Count is now 6
<GazzaK> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from GazzaK. 8 for, 1 against. Count is now 7
<AndrewWilliams> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from AndrewWilliams. 9 for, 1 against. Count is now 8
<X3N> +1000
<dsas> (I'm assuming this means we're voting to decide on roles, and which roles we need)
<jamesbrose> lol =]
<AndrewWilliams> the price is wrong X3N :)
<X3N> damn ;)
 +1
<MootBot> +1 received from X3N. 10 for, 1 against. Count is now 9
<LoudMouthMan> has everyone joined in on this vote ?
<daviey> maybe 10 people will suddenly vote :P
<LoudMouthMan> 10 have voted ina room of 46 ?
* Dave-ubu waits with baited breath
<LoudMouthMan> yeah hence my view that need better representation <Grin>
* daviey waits with bad breath
 Dave-ubu turns blue
<popey> many people are idle
<X3N> CHANNEL
<dsas> six idle + bots
<philwyett> Evening all. What vote?
<LoudMouthMan> should we define roles for Ubuntu-uk ?
<X3N> nah
<sheepeatingtaz> I was abstaining
<LoudMouthMan> okay im calling a end vote. 
<philwyett> I'd say yes
<daviey> philwyett, type +1
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<LoudMouthMan> then say +1 philwyett
<AndrewWilliams> phil: do a "+1" then
<philwyett> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from philwyett. 11 for, 1 against. Count is now 10
<LoudMouthMan> [ENDVOTE]
<jamesbrose> woot
<LoudMouthMan> #endvote
<MootBot> Final result is 11 for, 1 against. Total: 10
<AndrewWilliams> i need to change that command...
<LoudMouthMan> hmm there we go .. mootbot is working well so now we are clear. we want to discuss roles. 
 before we do . can I ask the pertinent question to the topic ?
<daviey> +1
<LoudMouthMan> to late.
 sigh ... <grin>
<daviey> naa, +1 to your question :0
<LoudMouthMan> I am currently the LocoContact here I would like to move to sharing the contact space with Popey and X3N for loco contact are there any objections ?
<Dave-ubu> -1
<dsas> I assume popey and X3N are ok with that?
<daviey> Dave-ubu, is that a non-objection?
<popey> isnt that going directly against what we just voted on?
<Dave-ubu> -1 is no ?
<dsas> Dave-ubu: correct.
<LoudMouthMan> popey then I misunderstand the issie of the vote <grin>
<X3N> I'm not sure what you mean
<Dave-ubu> so -1 no objections - i'm sure popey and X3N are willing to take on the responsibility so carry on!
<daviey> from my understanding of the last vote; it was to agree we need roles.  Now we need to define roles.  Then pick the people
<LoudMouthMan> okay .. skip it for now .
 moving on to roles?
<popey> daviey: +1
<deiaccord> daviey: that ws my understanding
<LoudMouthMan> yeah , sorry this ones none to clear .. ! 
 okay so lets talk roles. 
<daviey> i suspect popey and X3N will get those roles.  But to do things democratically we needa full vote
<LoudMouthMan> sure . 
<daviey> Okay, what roles do we have currently?
<deiaccord> loco contact only
<LoudMouthMan> loco contact, only officially . then there is irc ops, mail list admin, forum admins who are unofficial.
<daviey> shall we list all the potential roles we can think of; then thrash out what we actually need?
<dsas> could I suggest we don't make any binding agreements in this meeting? just "decisions in principle", report back what we've thought to the list to have greater discussion and then confirm or revisit next meeting.
<LoudMouthMan> dsas :I agree.
 im worried that 11 people doesnot constitue the community UK. 
<deiaccord> probaly not...but where do you draw the line?
<daviey> LoudMouthMan, how many % voted in the last local election?
<LoudMouthMan> its classic proportional voting at its worst.
<deiaccord> was about 40-50%?
<dsas> Sorry to bring that up out of turn, but I thought it was important to say before we do make any decisions.
<X3N> LoudMouthMan: it's 11 people who want to have input and XX number who don't mind being lead
<LoudMouthMan> daviey thats my concern.
<deiaccord> do we need to get a proper voting strategy agreed then to take account of this?
<daviey> okay how's this; we draw what we think - then get the greater UK-community to veto it; if they feel so
<LoudMouthMan> X3N . 46 is not the total number of the UKTeam . theres 300 on the mail list and untold on the forums.
<AndrewWilliams> 171 on LP
<philwyett> Voting should be also allow via the mailing list as some will never come in here.
<X3N> the differece with this is that what ever the outcome any person has the ability to contribute to the changes or against the changes
<popey> dont even think of considering them
 the vast majority of ubuntu-uk couldnt give a damn
<LoudMouthMan> who LP, maillist or forums ? 
<popey> dont contribute
 all
 however you are measuring it
 the same names crop up as active all the time
<deiaccord> politics has always been decidd by those who bothered to do anything
<popey> its the same in LUGs
 some people do, others dont
<LoudMouthMan> deiaccord I know.. i know
<daviey> okay, what are we going to do?  Have a vote on weather we should actually do anything at this meeting?
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<popey> what I am getting at is that there is no point worrying about all those people who dont vote
 they may bitch that they didnt agree to something
<GazzaK> popey +1
<popey> but the fact is those types dont turn up or participate
<LoudMouthMan> heres the thing 10 of us want to talk about roles. Im fairly sure since some people do . those roles are filled and working . 
<daviey> popey, +1
<popey> agreed LoudMouthMan
<popey> but just because poeople are in those roles doesnt mean the best people are in those roles
<LoudMouthMan> so lets agree the basics .. I really wan tto get to functional roles not commitee roles about what is being done. 
<popey> plus
<LoudMouthMan> e.g. 
<Dave-ubu> has the meeting been announced anywhere but in IRC ?
<LoudMouthMan> the stuff I mentioned. 
<daviey> I feel we should make changes, if people who couldn't make it to the meeting disagree they can bring it up at the next meeting.  It's only 1 month!
 If we don't do anything, nothing will get done :)
<dsas> Dave-ubu: the wiki as well.
<LoudMouthMan> daviey it sounds great but id rather be considerate. 
 so . roles:
 as I see them ..
 Webmaster
 Loco-contact
<deiaccord> we could give mailing list people the chance to veto...IF they want to?
<Dave-ubu> well popeys point stands - if any objections are raised, they should be here or make a stand via proxy
<LoudMouthMan> Mail admin
 Forum admin
<X3N> some of these things are not going to work..
<popey> why X3N
<daviey> lets list them, then discuss the feasibility
<LoudMouthMan> Dave-ubu they are fair but not considerae and hence I ask to be considerate and be inclusive. If we are unsure.. ask.
 irc ops as well. 
 that about it .
<deiaccord> seems a good place to start
<popey> ok, list those roles and put down who is currently doing them
<daviey> okay - shall we list the roles; then make a poll via website for voting?
<popey> have a vote for "status quo"
<LoudMouthMan> okay . 
 so start at the top
<dsas> fyi: the definition of a loco contact - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact
<LoudMouthMan> Loco Contact: NikButler
 WebMaster: Popey/X3N
<popey> if everyone or majority is okay for status quo then we dont need to vote
<LoudMouthMan> MailAdmin: JonathoRiddel
<daviey> agreed
<LoudMouthMan> ForumsAdmin: PriceChild
<X3N> wait wait, what about the people who are already doing the roles and providing the reasources how to do them ?
<daviey> X3N, example?
<popey> X3N: thats what he is listing
<LoudMouthMan> IRCOPs: Popey/Loudmouthman/Aprokrphyos/saveas/sladen
<X3N> oh right
<popey> I would say just list them
 on the wiki
* Dave-ubu passed coffee to X3N
<popey> mail the list asking if anyone would like to help out
<X3N> hmmmm
<LoudMouthMan> so loco contact . 
<GazzaK> I'd offer to help, but I feel i'd not be taken seriously
<popey> why GazzaK ?
<LoudMouthMan> views/concerns/promotions/wishes ?
<popey> LoudMouthMan: what you doing?
<daviey> I know Seeker' and I wanted to be considered as chan OPS
<popey> why not just list them on the wiki and ask if anyone would like to change anything>
<GazzaK> I seem to be the centre of a bit of banter here :-)
<LoudMouthMan> oh ..popey I missed that . 
 give me a chance mate , if its not directed to me  <grin> I miss them 
<dsas> GazzaK: that means you're liked. not that you're not taken seriously.
<X3N> GazzaK: doesn't mean we don't respect what you say
<LoudMouthMan> okay thats fine .
<schwuk> Sorry - haven't been able to contribute to this meeting. I'm happy to help out wherever you want me.
<X3N> I can see this roles issue getting messy in the future
<LoudMouthMan> are we agreed. to list those roles on the wiki and mail/forum/post asking if people would like to see changes to put them on the wiki .
<GazzaK> in that case, not that I think this channel needs any more, but if people do think it needs more op's, I'll stand
<popey> GazzaK: +1
<daviey> Seeker' and I aswell :)
<deiaccord> LoudMouthMan: +1
<LoudMouthMan> we need more ops in the channel providing they follow freenode guidelines and done flaunt it.
 okay . million dollar question time ? 
<GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, I do that on #gaygeeks and #colchester-lug at the mo, and the CoC, even though they are non ubuntu specific
<daviey> LoudMouthMan, considering the people who are asking have a Ubuntero reputation at steak - they wouldn't risk breaking the rules
<deiaccord> I'd also like to help out....but think I need to find my place more first
<popey> yup, hence my +1 GazzaK
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<LoudMouthMan> what are the concerns or issues we feel people will raise about those roles and their feasability ?
<dsas> just to remind everyone that we have the #ubuntu-ops team at our beck and call as far as I know.
<jamesbrose> I would like to help out, but the only thing I'm really good at is graphics =]
<X3N> LoudMouthMan: I fell that there may be cases where people get their roles pulled out from under them
<X3N> *feel
<popey> jamesbrose: i could use you :)
<X3N> damn lag
<daviey> jamesbrose, we are crying out for artists!  I can code but naff art art
<jamesbrose> popey, sure :)
<deiaccord> X3N: Then that would need to be voted on
<jamesbrose> daviey, same
<popey> will poke you later
 yes deiaccord ++
<LoudMouthMan> X3N I share a concern about .. machiavlian issues over roles. we would need to agree to how that is handled. I guess.
<popey> nobody can just nominate themselves into a role
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<popey> but if everything is working and everyone is happy why bother with a vote
<LoudMouthMan> hmm okay I guess thats my question then popey
<popey> BUT
 I am certain we need to list out the roles and who does them
<X3N_> some people may wish to take over a role to pursue it in a different direction
<GazzaK> dsas, actually, the access list only shows freenode staff, popey apokryphos jono LoudMouthMan and Mez
<popey> because it can be ambiguous
<deiaccord> I think we SHOULD vote to agree to keep the status quo though
<LoudMouthMan> I am nominating myself into the loco contact role. but if its working im hapy to do it . but im worried about missing things.
<daviey> yesterday there was a guy teasing the channel by flooding..  He said that he was seeing how long it took him to get kicked.  it was around 3 mins
<Mez> GazzaK, you rang?
<GazzaK> Mez, sorry
<popey> daviey: that was unusual we just happened to be in a state where all ops were looking away from the screen
<dsas> Mez: we're discussing the possible need for more IRC ops.
<dsas> LoudMouthMan: I'm concerned that we'll change from a meritocracy to a democracy.
<Mez> dsas: are they needed?
<GazzaK> daviey, yeah, thats why I suggested myself, as I sat there and watched it, annoyed
<philwyett> I'd be happy to op, though one is rarely needed. I have been an op in #crystalspace for over 6 years.
<dsas> Mez: That's what we're discussing. I've never saw any trolls here personally :)
<LoudMouthMan> dsas : BINGO <grin> my worries as well but .. meritocracies are democracies unchallenged. 
<popey> i dont have a problem if we are op-heavy here
<daviey> GazzaK, sorry i remembered it as me and Seeker
<Mez> dsas I have once
 which was when I was given my ops
<LoudMouthMan> okay im going to wrap this topic up with an agreed ?
<daviey> "Do we need more ops"
 YES
<dsas> LoudMouthMan: could you summarise what we've agreed?
<daviey> (sorry for caps)
<LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] NikButler to post roles Loco-contact/Webmaster/MailList admin/ForumAdmin to the wik and via mail , wiki and forums invite comments.
* Mez doesnt think you do
<MootBot> AGREED received:  NikButler to post roles Loco-contact/Webmaster/MailList admin/ForumAdmin to the wik and via mail , wiki and forums invite comments.
<popey> +1
 :)
<deiaccord> +1
<daviey> +1
<Mez> +1 for what ?
<deiaccord> +1 to agreed
<LoudMouthMan> moving on .. the next topic 
<jamesbrose> +1
<Mez> Quick question - why isnt this in -meeting?
<LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Ops for the IRC channel NikButler nominates Seeker`and is intersted in other nominations.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ops for the IRC channel NikButler nominates Seeker`and is intersted in other nominations.
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<LoudMouthMan> Mez because its UK not World. 
<popey> Mez: locos generally dont
<dsas> doesn't this tie into what we just talked about?
<deiaccord> LoudMouthMan: can you list current ops again please
<LoudMouthMan> dsas it does.. 
<Mez> !ops
<ubot3> Help! apokryphos, LoudMouthMan, jono, sladen, Seveas
<daviey> !ops
<LoudMouthMan> but people drifted <grin>
<popey> uhm
 thats not right Mez
 it doesnt list me for a start
<PriceChild> popey, then ask us to change it ;)
<LoudMouthMan> now Apokyphos is waiting on me to agree ops. 
<Mez> !ops is <sed> /Sevease/Sevease popey Mez
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<Mez> !ops is <sed> /Sevease/Sevease popey Mez/
<leftcas1> .
 ooops lost me name somehow !
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<popey> PriceChild: nobody every told me how to get it changed
<LoudMouthMan> i dont mind a top heavy arrangement since people like X3N, Seeker`, Gazzak have been here for a while and would be suitable for the role.
<Mez> I've just changed the !ops call, it'll be filtered down to ubot3 soon
<daviey> Currently; Seeker' GazzaK & daviey want to be considered for ops
<PriceChild> popey, me Mez and apok have edeitors... just ask in #ubuntu-ops if you ever need help with bots or opping :)
<LoudMouthMan> Daviey I understand your interested and if others can nominate you thats cool . its just to me your new name.
 daviey can you get someone to nominate or second that at all please ?
* Mez nominates GazzaK 
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 mc44 (n=mc44@unaffiliated/mc44) has joined #ubuntu-uk
* Mez calls the IRC master into the channel :D
<LoudMouthMan> hey Saveas .. long time no chat. 
<PriceChild> mc44, who invited you? :)
<Seveas> woah.... this channel has grown since I last was here...
* AndrewB would also enjoy helping out more.. be it IRC moderation..
<Seveas> from 5 to 53.. :)
<mc44> PriceChild: I invite myself
<LoudMouthMan> yeah weve been busy .
<PriceChild> mc44, :)
<GazzaK> I'll nominate daviey, he has been about a lot during the daytime crowd
<mc44> PriceChild: who invited *you* :p
<Seveas> LoudMouthMan, excellent!
<LoudMouthMan> Seveas. you were speakign to ausimage and the scribes team today ?
<Mez> Seveas, can you pus the db out to ubot3?
<schwuk> I'm happy to help out with ops, but I'd understand if people don't think I'm online enough
<daviey> woo thanks GazzaK !
<PriceChild> mc44, I'm British? ;)
* popey seconds GazzaK and daviey 
<mc44> I nominate *Anyone* but GazzaK
<PriceChild> Mez, that's nalioth
<mc44> PriceChild: SNAP!
<LoudMouthMan> well the moot bot is helping me run this meeting which youve walked in on . 
<Seveas> Mez, hourly cronjob, wait 10 minutes
<Mez> Seveas, ah, kk
<popey> aaaaanyway
<Seveas> actually, no, poke nalioth to reload after the cronjob
<popey> before this place turns into #ubuntu-uk-ops...
<Seveas> bug in the bot hasn't been fixed iirc
<LoudMouthMan> Schwuck I dont think its about avialability. <grin>
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<LoudMouthMan> hahahah 
 popey quite. 
<schwuk> yes :)
<LoudMouthMan> I can see three good candidates in my view . 
<Mez> indeded popeye^Wpopey
<schwuk> anyone *not* want ops? :)
<LoudMouthMan> me
<Dave-ubu> not just yet - :P
<LoudMouthMan> i really dont know IRC ,grin>
<mc44> LoudMouthMan: but I thought you were all about running for elected office :)
<deiaccord> me, at least not yet also
* PriceChild should be more active in here.... /me should be doing a lot more...
<LoudMouthMan> mc44 local politics is not irc <grin>
<GazzaK> lol @ mc44's election comment
* popey pokes everyone back on topic
<mc44> LoudMouthMan: yes, IRC is much more brutal
<LoudMouthMan> and yes for those intersted I am interested in running for district as well as parish.
 anyway .. back to the point.
<mc44> LoudMouthMan: pfft next you will be taking on Gordon Brown
<LoudMouthMan> I feel we agre we need more ops.
 mc44 later . please.
--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Mez
<deiaccord> LoudMouthMan: +1
<Mez> on topic please?
<LoudMouthMan> Mez. thanks for that but could you drop out of ops for me please <grin>
 moving on ....
--- ChanServ removes channel operator status from Mez
<LoudMouthMan> cheers Mez. 
<AndrewB> I think if you are considering an op we don't just need some 'cool' guy. We need somebody who can catalyze people properly. Ban is the worst case scinario.
<LoudMouthMan> we seem to agree we need more ops. I feel three more is suitable for a room of 50 
<Dave-ubu> *if* at least one of the 3 is in here live
<LoudMouthMan> AndrewB . indeed . ive been victim of poor op attitude more than once on IRC. in fact this is the only channel i have ever stuck in for longer than  year. 
<popey> Dave-ubu: many of us are almost always here
<AndrewB> LoudMouthMan: then the people are not doing their jobs correctly.
<Seveas> LoudMouthMan, that's why we have operator guidelines, code of conduct, irc council and whatnot
<LoudMouthMan> popey irc and screen dont count <wink> .. im being nice mate  <grin>
<Seveas> if ops don't behave, we *do* something about it
<popey> no I am serious
 I am here almost all day
<jamesbrose> I don't mind helping out, but I feel there are others who deserve to be it more
<dsas> I don't think this is something that should be seen as a status symbol jamesbrose
<LoudMouthMan> Seveas. indeed which is why i feel Ubuntu is a community I can put my whole personality and culture behind and set it as a foundation of good opportunity.
<Seveas> jamesbrose, it's not 'deserve' it's 'to be cursed with'
 jamesbrose, being a good op is hard and often not rewarding at all
<Mez> Seveas, +1
<AndrewB> heh Seveas I enjoy helping people to behave properly..
<AndrewWilliams> being a op on a busy channel an't easy :)
<jamesbrose> I mean, I'm not as active as some of you
<LoudMouthMan> and popey is a op. im an op but im frankly only good with a right click and xchat. 
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<GazzaK> tell me about it, damned if you do, and damned if you don't half the time
<LoudMouthMan> id rather seeker/x3n/gazzak had more responsibilities.
<Seveas> LoudMouthMan, chanserv.py helps for xchat using ops
<LoudMouthMan> Seveas. .oooh okay . 
<deiaccord> being an op/moderator requires a lot of tact,fairness and impartiallity which many people do not have
<jamesbrose> LoudMouthMan, I agree with those people
<AndrewB> deiaccord: indeed.
<Dave-ubu> +1 deiaccord
* LoudMouthMan thinks leadership is about letting people who are better than him get on with it . 
<X3N_> i've been an op on other channels for around 4 years as well as being an IRCop, id rather not take on ops
<LoudMouthMan> okay X3N fair comment. 
<X3N_> this channel isn't too bad though, there isn't a huge amount to do
<PriceChild> LoudMouthMan, http://www.kaarsemaker.net/files/Software/chanserv.py
<X3N_> ( just incase i put anyone off ;) )
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<LoudMouthMan> so . Gazzak and Seeker` do I have any objections. and does anyone want to put forward Daviey ?
<PriceChild> GazzaK, ? pfft....
<popey> LoudMouthMan: i already did
<GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, and me
<LoudMouthMan> Popey .. sorry missed it .
* Mez doesnt know Daveiey, but GazzaK and seeker are good choices IMHO
<LoudMouthMan> Gazzak .. sorry missed it . .I was looking honest !
<daviey> thanks popey & GazzaK
* popey knows daviey 
 deiaccord will not be votin for ops either way as I have not been here long enough to vouch for anyones character
<AndrewB> GazzaK seems a good choice.
<X3N_> I agree
<Seveas> if GazzaK bcomes op I'm not joining again. I fear the revenge for all the abuse he gets in -offtopic
<LoudMouthMan> right I will ask apokryphos to add you guys in .. remember .. you asked for it !
<GazzaK> meh
<LoudMouthMan> hehehe 
<Seveas> but other than that: good choice!
<GazzaK> Seveas, :p
<Dave-ubu> well done :D
<LoudMouthMan> okay I will wrap up this topic and move to AOB .
<popey> I have an item
 actually, forget it, I'll mail the list
<LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] Gazzak, Seeker` and Daviey to be op'd by apokryphos as soon as NikButler mentions it to him.
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Gazzak, Seeker` and Daviey to be op'd by apokryphos as soon as NikButler mentions it to him.
<daviey> I have an item
<LoudMouthMan> so do we have any other business ?
<GazzaK> thanks, I think :p
<LoudMouthMan> Daviey .. go . 
<Dave-ubu> UKSkills has 11 names, and I hear that its being used... so that's a bonus
<daviey> We are now entering the 2nd quarter of the year; i would like to see what has been achieved.  What is in the pipeline
<LoudMouthMan> Dave-ubu yes and its a good page . thanks for creating it . keep pimping and reminding us of it please. 
 good question . 
<jamesbrose> Gazzak did you just get kicked from offtopic?!
<popey> Dave-ubu: how is it being used, thats interesting
<GazzaK> dunno, did I?
<LoudMouthMan> jamesbrose please weve not ended the meeting. 
<jamesbrose> sorry
<LoudMouthMan> okay . Shall I answer this ?
<GazzaK> oh yes, so I did
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<daviey> LoudMouthMan, shoot
<LoudMouthMan> oh jono arrive .. no pressure <grin>
<dsas> popey: I got Dave-ubu to volunteer to do some guadec posters.
<daviey> jono, please come in quietly and take a seat
<popey> thanks dsas
<jono> heh
<Dave-ubu> cheers dsas
<jono> meeting?
<LoudMouthMan> So since Linux world Expo in October 2006 we have created and formally formed the UKTeam
<jono> not here for long anyway, just checking mail
<daviey> dsas Dave-ubu , they are good!
<Dave-ubu> it was down to the direction and ideas from the GUADEC list
<daviey> Are we having a U'-UK presence at GUADEC?
<LoudMouthMan> thanks to schwuk for the logo and to the work of popey, x3n,gazzak,pricechild in fact many names I cant even type here we were officially approved last year and since then we have grown the numbers in the IRC channel and on the mailing list.
<PriceChild> meh me? :S
<X3N_> daviey: see the wiki page
<dsas> PriceChild: you're a Ubuntu member.
<daviey> seems kind of dead
<LoudMouthMan> Now we are moving out from under the shadow of new year and start of year efforts and the team is focused on two main public events.
* Dave-ubu makes an unashamed plug - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Skills?action=show&redirect=UKSkills
<dsas> daviey: help in making it lively would be appreciated.
<LoudMouthMan> Guadec which I believe Dsas is currenlty co-ordinatinf and Lug Radio Live 2007 ( sorry I cant dig up the name quicker ) . 
<popey> Dave-ubu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Skills doesnt need that extra on the end
<LoudMouthMan> We have campaigned and promoted for the Early Day Motion 217 and have made a positive impact on many MPs in that effort.
<Dave-ubu> cheers popey - my bad <grin>
<X3N_> i'm also helping out with GUADEC
<LoudMouthMan> the Wiki has grown and is rounding out. 
<GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, we do seem to be moving in the right direction
<dsas> heh, for some definitions of "co-ordinating"
 X3N_: is probably as good, or better to talk to about guadec.
<LoudMouthMan> meanwhile we are at a quiet phase . and this is okay . every good storm needs a queit time before and we are at that moment. 
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<Przemcio78> hi
* daviey feels we need to set some goals
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<LoudMouthMan> I believe that we are growing slowly and organically in numbers and interest and the team are building good bridges in trust and communication which is 
<X3N_> LoudMouthMan: we ought to reflect on the rather large number of things we have had in idea land that haven't materialised
<LoudMouthMan> helping us to keep moving forward according to the wishes of the community manager.
<daviey> X3N_, have the ideas been documented?
<LoudMouthMan> which is to grasp the low hanging fruit and keep getting things done.
 there im done.
<deiaccord> daviey: see projects under https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam
<LoudMouthMan> daviey does that answerthe question. 
<X3N_> in the last meeting especially
<LoudMouthMan> I am going to have to scroll back for everyon elses comments now...sorry. 
<daviey> X3N_, the points on the page are few.  Are there some i'm unaware of?
<X3N_> yeah
* X3N_ stares at LoudMouthMan :p
<LoudMouthMan> X3N . your spot on . I have been aware of that and I dont want to do it in a way that reflects negatively on things which have not happened. but yes I am aware and I do want to get the 5000 ft view.
<popey> daviey: it is entirely possible there are ideas we have not documented
 daviey: i wouldnt try too hard right now to prise them out of those here
<LoudMouthMan> since Jono is here maybe he might like to commnt.
<X3N_> I'm just as guilty though, as I did motion 2 ideas which didn't get going
<Mez> OT: this is a local channel, for local people
* jono is not really here
<popey> Twelvety!
* jono is pretending to be here to get all the girls, but is actually on the phone
 popey looks around for girls
 Mez looks at popey 
 popey sees GazzaK, squints a bit then carries on looking
<LoudMouthMan> okay boys and girls pretend jono is sooty and lets see if we can get him to come out.
<Przemcio78> has anyone of you got windows on his/her disk?
<LoudMouthMan> every one cry out ... JONO !
<jono> I came out last week, did you not see it on the fridge?
* jono chuckles
<GazzaK> did you jono, I KNEW IT
<LoudMouthMan> hmm actually jono was probably to young for sooty.
* GazzaK giggles
<LoudMouthMan> Anyway . Jono. how are you doing ?
<jono> LoudMouthMan: I used to love sooty
<jono> still do :)
<popey> sooty lives down the road from me
<daviey> shall we 'Sweep' the meeting away?
<X3N_> in the mouth
<jono> LoudMouthMan: good thanks, just got back from cebit
<popey> http://fact.popey.com/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://fact.popey.com/
<popey> hahah
<jono> right I best pay attention to this call
 later skater :)
<X3N_> we're in a meeting too.. arn't we ?
 ;)
<LoudMouthMan> we are . 
 is there any other business.
<X3N_> forums ?
<daviey> Are we going to set some fresh goals?
<LoudMouthMan> am I going to be expected to cut and paste all that into the minutes <grin>
<X3N_> are there now uk forums ?
<LoudMouthMan> daviey . id rather review the wishlist and ideas and then set some completed. and to be completed goals. 
<daviey> okay
<LoudMouthMan> PriceChild . over to you.
 hah typicial.
 okay . so . 
 I cant answer that one directly since PriceChild is not around to give me the definitive.
<schwuk> did the forums get discussed?
<popey> that subject has been going for some time
 schwuk: yes
 not today
 it has been done to death before and is in progress
<X3N_> I was just wondering what is happening so far with them
<LoudMouthMan> in terms of integration ?
<X3N_> in terms of anything
<LoudMouthMan> okay . well integration is as follows.
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<LoudMouthMan> I have created a mail list and pricechild will be organising a forum sub set . we will then test how well posts to forums and maillists work . and providing its not a huge PITA or a complete installshield to deliver then we will return to the community and say . hey this is possible, it looks like thus and we can do it ? shall we ?
 after that there will be a FAQ to end it all and be done with.
<popey> why is it taking so long?
 </blunt>
<LoudMouthMan> PriceChild why is is taking so long ? 
<Mez> doesnt ubuntu uk already hyave a ML?
<popey> Mez: yes
<leftcas1> Pssst - I added myself to the UKTeam Skills list btw
<LoudMouthMan> thats okay popey its a fair questoin . its about people time to do things.
<popey> Mez: it was decided not to link a forum to the productive list
 but test first with a non-productive one
 so as not to piss people off who are on the list (for example
<Mez> popey, ah, ok :D
<GazzaK> and afaik there were some issues in version incompatibility's
<Mez> I get ya now :D
<PriceChild> LoudMouthMan, our recent vB upgrade to 3.6.5 broke the ML integration plugin. I'm poking ubuntu-geek as much as is polite. Sorry its taking to long
<LoudMouthMan> PriceChild thats okay . its volunteer efforts all round so we have to acept time be time man.
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<LoudMouthMan> has that answered this question about Forums ?
<X3N_> yup
<popey> right
 can you please add that to the faq?
<LoudMouthMan> okay . Any other business or can I wrap this meeting up and post the minutes next century ?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/FAQ
<X3N_> ;)
<LoudMouthMan> popey I will do when we know anything useful.
<popey> er
 you do
 what you and PriceChild have just said
 people keep asking on the ML "why dont we have a forum"
<LoudMouthMan> hahah that we dont know. okay I can add that . imjst going to get a million emails telling me how it is/isnt possible <grin>
<popey> if you put what you and PriceChild just typed in there rather than buried in a meeting log it is easier for us to point people at it
<LoudMouthMan> but okay . i'll take one for the team.
 are we done for tonight .. all we are left with is next date. and I would suggest 6 weeks away.
<popey> why not 4?
<deiaccord> popey: +1
 Esp with the discussion we have had on roles
<daviey> popey, +1
<LoudMouthMan> popey because it gives everyone time to do stuff. 
<deiaccord> getting people on the ML to agree/object that is
 mini-meet?
<LoudMouthMan> 4 is good we did 6 last time is all.
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<GazzaK> a month is long enough?
<LoudMouthMan> so  is 24th April long enough ? 
<daviey> Should be, if pople to check their emails within 1 month; then things get tricky
<X3N_> i'd say 6 weeks too
<deiaccord> I'd be happy with 6 weeks but the roles/responsibilities thing need tying up sooner I'd suggest
<popey> fair enough, 6 weeks
<LoudMouthMan> deiaccord indeed. 
<popey> i cant do 24/4
<Bagnaj97> I'd say on Feisty release date :)
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<LoudMouthMan> no .  we need 4 weeks on this issue.
 popey is thay week out ?
 for you ?
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<popey> yes 24/4 i am busy
<X3N_> i am too
<LoudMouthMan> okay how about 1st May   ?
<deiaccord> Would it be possible to do a mini-meet earlier say just to confirm the decision on roles. MAin meet in 6 weeks?
<X3N_> that would be ok
<LoudMouthMan> sounds good . 
 in which case why not 17th April 
<daviey> 1st May +1
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<X3N_> i don't think there will be a need to call it a mini meet
<deiaccord> mini-moot?
<LoudMouthMan> pnig time people when shall we 3+n meet again ? 17thapril or 1stMay
<X3N_> 1st may
* deiaccord is checking shift rota
<LoudMouthMan> popey is 1st good for you ?
<popey> yup
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<LoudMouthMan> okay then I say our next meet is 1st may and we shall convene then .
 can I ask everyone to make all the effort they can to get the mail and forum users into the irc for that day as well ?
 it would be nice to have more people in ubuntu-uk than usual.
<dsas> yay, 1st of may falls perfect for me.
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<LoudMouthMan> [AGREED]  1st May for next UKTeam IRC meeting. 
<MootBot> AGREED received:   1st May for next UKTeam IRC meeting.
<LoudMouthMan> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:28.

CategoryUKTeam