This is the 9th meeting of the UKTeam, starting at xx:xx GMT and finishing at xx:xx GMT
Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. Active Attendees: Daviey VooDoo_Work Temporo gord fi_ frederific spd106 txwikinger chey Darky* popey* LoudMouthMan*
When adding an agenda item please "sign" it by leaving your name next to it. If you won't be attending the meeting please also spell out your item in detail, otherwise we can't fruitfully discuss it.
Support mapping - http://map.ubuntu-be.org/
Any Other Business
The chairman of the meeting should endeavour to ensure that key points are discussed in an appropriate time. Key Topics from the Agenda should be tabled in the channel using a market such as [ TOPIC ] or * TOPIC * Followed by the agenda item. Where Suggestions or Ideas are put forward and considered as acceptable to the group then it should be noted by the Chairman as [ IDEA ] or * IDEA * . Where a concept is discussed and agreed the use of [ AGREED ] or * AGREED * should be defined by the chairman and should signify the topic is discussed and the meeting is to move on. Be clear on the channel when the meeting is concluded and how and when the minutes will be posted.
<Daviey> Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. <Daviey> PRESENT <VooDoo_Work> PRESENT <Temporo> PRESENT <gord> PRESENT <fi_> PRESENT <frederific> PRESENT <gord> is anyone else really tempted to !caps? <spd106> PRESENT <Daviey> Apologies Given for DaveMorris and LoudMouthman <txwikinger> PRESENT <User5> Hello. <User5> I would like to use Ubuntu on my computer. <Daviey> Hi User5, are you here for the meeting? <User5> No. <VooDoo_Work> User5: do you have the live cd? <User5> Well I will join teh meeting if you want. <Daviey> User5, were currently trying to have a meeting - it will be short - but feel free to join in or wait until the end <User5> Yes I do, i put the disc in on startup of the pc, i click the install thing when ubuntu is on my pc, but it freezes. <User5> I will join in. <Daviey> Firstly i think we should give the Ubuntu community in general a big pat on the back for the successful launch of Feisty Fawn... <chey> sorry im late, internets being a right pain tonight <gord> hip hip! <Daviey> Horray <frederific> :) <Temporo> Hoooooray! <frederific> Yeee HAH! <chey> :) <VooDoo_Work> hmmm where's xp ? * VooDoo_Work ducks <Daviey> I have noticed that we have had a considerable amount of extra activity since then, and don't expect it to fall. This says to me that we are getting more popular. Wooh! <VooDoo_Work> or they are just curious.... <Daviey> Anyway - shall we move onto the agenda? <VooDoo_Work> Agenda? <frederific> which one would that be? :P <Daviey> Yeah, quite empty <VooDoo_Work> yes go for it <Daviey> "Support mapping - [WWW] http://map.ubuntu-be.org/" <VooDoo_Work> ubuntu-men.org? <VooDoo_Work> i think we should just throw idea in for an agenda <Daviey> Currently on the agenda is "Support Mapping" <Daviey> I think that means that we should look to 'mapping <Daviey> where ubuntu-uk users are <Daviey> What are peoples views? <Darky> Uhm .. That's a very good Idea. <frederific> looks good :) <gord> hrmm, I think its a good idea as long as its actually used, I have seen far too many pointless maps of where people are. something like that looks very good <VooDoo_Work> and isn't a LUG really a main point of call for linux demos n stuff? <Daviey> I am slightly considered about privacy. That map shown actually shows people's road! <Temporo> Yeah <Temporo> I was gonna say that privacy might be a concern <Temporo> Also that we would be competing with LUG's <Darky> Maybe if we had an option where we could hide/show names. <VooDoo_Work> the local LUG should be the first point of call <Daviey> Hmm... I can't see how it is really got anything to do with LUGS... It's seems to me to be an 'interest' thing <gord> what about instead a list of the regions people who are willing to give support are in and a contact number/email? <Daviey> Is it about support? <Daviey> *should* it be about support? <Darky> Well, I think it should so who can give support in a certain area etc. <gord> I think support is better focused on the current support resources ubuntu already offers, the idea of helping with free cd's, demos, first time set ups sounds nice though <Daviey> Not wanting to step on the toes of lugs - but we are Ubuntu specific. For that reason i think we can make ourselves a first point of call <gord> I second that <VooDoo_Work> sounds like it could tunr into us an them though <Daviey> Okay, lets look at options - quick vote: <chey> as a newbie, may i just say that when i went to look at ubuntu the first time if i had not had the support of a good friend i may have given up on linux again <chey> i had not even heard of LUG or whatever to help me <Daviey> Should we have a map, showing members locations (for any reason)? <VooDoo_Work> no <Daviey> +1 <Daviey> (thats yes) ;) <gord> no <Temporo> no <Darky> Uhm .. No. <txwikinger> We can always choose less granuality <txwikinger> like point to the city center or something like that <Daviey> Okay, the 'No's carry it. Maybe we can rehear the suggestion when the proposer can argue the corner a little better. <Daviey> Currently marking as rejected tho <VooDoo_Work> i must admit, i wouldn't mind having a little logo on my own company site that is something like "ubuntu supported here" or something like that <VooDoo_Work> but not on a map <Daviey> Point 2) DaveMorris proposes that regular meetings should be on revolving days. Not all members can make Tuesdays. <gord> revolving? <frederific> not always tueday i guess <VooDoo_Work> well make it every 2 weeks then it won't be on the same day all the time. <Daviey> we have had Tuesday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday <ubotu> New on planetubuntuuk: Mark Harrison: Mini Book Review - Wikinomics (Tapscott and Williams) <http://markharrison.wordpress.com/2007/05/01/mini-book-review-wikinomics-tapscott-and-williams/> <VooDoo_Work> scratch that....doh! <Daviey> VooDoo_Work, then we won't have anything to talk about :) <Daviey> go away ubotu <gord> sounds like a sound plan to me, needs some specifics though, are weekends acceptable? <Daviey> I second DaveMorris point and suggest the next meeting happen on a Thursday <Daviey> shall we look at the irc logs, for popular times? <Temporo> I'm not bothered what day it happens but i think it is a good idea <Daviey> woo - stats page down <Darky> I am User5. <Daviey> On another note, i think we should give the members involved with getting the new server set-up a hip-horray <Daviey> hip hip <gord> hurrah! <Darky> Horray! <VooDoo_Work> woop! <spd106> hooray <Temporo> Whooo yeah! <Daviey> Now they need a boo for not having the stats page working <Daviey> boo <Temporo> Bahhh! <gord> boo-urns! <VooDoo_Work> didn't the mysql go a bit ropey yeasterday? <Temporo> What i heard it didn't work at all <gord> hehe, this meeting is like pantomime -_- <Daviey> :) <VooDoo_Work> oh no it isn't <gord> oh yes it is! <VooDoo_Work> look behind you <Daviey> Point 3) X3N appears to be working on a new ubuntu-uk page. http://dev.ubuntu-uk.org/ Comments? <VooDoo_Work> ooo like it, bit too much gap at the top though <spd106> Where's that bloke running to? <gord> I already mentioned to X3N that I strongly disagree with any colourscheme/look that defracts from the general ubuntu theme so much <Daviey> thats a good point gord <Daviey> Loudmouthman did question the sexual preference of the running man <fi_> running man? I thought that was Bob Fosse... <Daviey> gord, What would you like to see different with the page? <VooDoo_Work> i must admit i still prefer the current site. <Darky> What does boot from first hard disk mean? <gord> I think we need to just keep to the ubuntu look and just shape the site to our needs, the ubuntu-au loco team's website is a good example of this: http://ubuntu.org.au/ <Daviey> I'n my opinion the current page is little more than a bookmark of links. Doesn't describe us. Especially considering we are one of the larger Loco's <gord> if we create a site that is so radically different from the ubuntu style of things then we are fractionating ourselves away from the main ubuntu 'portal' of websites and support <Daviey> gord, do you suggest we use the official drupal theme? <Daviey> gord, poke <gord> I would merely suggest that we need to stay within the confinement of the ubuntu look and feel <Temporo> I would side with gord on this one <VooDoo_Work> me 3 <gord> I would however welcome development on the ubuntu-uk site and think that X3N is doing a good job of getting things started * Temporo nods. * Daviey agrees <Daviey> One concern i have with the offical drupal theme is "Same site, different country" feel of having it all over <Daviey> So what shall we put forward? <gord> how about we agree on using the official ubuntu colours <Daviey> Should the dev's continue development but until then we want the official theme? <VooDoo_Work> i think keep it the same style, we've a differnt logo to seperate us from all the other loco sites. <Temporo> Yuppers. <gord> +1 daviey idea <Temporo> +1 <Daviey> *cough* gord's idea (i aint taking the blame) ;) * VooDoo_Work goes with the majority <Daviey> VooDoo_Work, democracy at it's best <Daviey> +1 <fi_> Agree with Voodoo <gord> Ill take the blame :) (wuss :P) <frederific> +1 <Daviey> all votes in? <spd106> +1 <Daviey> Vote: Carried - we want the offical drupal theme (gord's idea) <gord> (wuss) <VooDoo_Work> :) <Daviey> Point 4) In the channel it was suggested we look into setting up national press advertisement for Ubuntu. Comments? <VooDoo_Work> thats what canonical are for. <gord> how expensive is that? is it actually effective? <frederific> where are we gonna get the money for that? <spd106> I think Dell have that covered <VooDoo_Work> i suggest we forget that idea <frederific> +1 VooDoo <gord> canonical are there to make the software really VooDoo_Work, mr shuttleworth had to decide between free cd's or advertising ubuntu, he went with free cd's <gord> I would suggest that it is ubuntu-marketing that should be handing this kind of thing <VooDoo_Work> isn't that a department at canonical? <Daviey> Hmm - i think it is a nice idea. Finance would come from donations from (us) and maybe we can get canonical to match our fund. <chey> i think its a good idea if agreement on funding source can be found <Daviey> gord, i spoke the #ubuntu-marketing and they gave some advice - but weren't planning any of their own advertisements <Temporo> national press? <Temporo> Would this be a newspaper <Temporo> Tv <Temporo> Radio advert? <fi_> Once Dell are issuing ubuntu pcs in the UK a demos to interested groups of new users would be more meaningful possibly? <Temporo> Or all of them? <gord> I think before any kind of decision is made there needs to be more information available on the cost and effectiveness of such and advertisement <gord> s/and/an <Daviey> We will need to investigate feasibility, but at this stage - we need to decide if it is what we want [** At this point 'popey' enters the room, rustling feathers and making a cow impression :) ] <popey> moo <popey> apologies <chey> hi popey * Daviey kicks popey in the goolies <popey> \o/ <Temporo> It would be amazing to have an advert on TV or in a newspaper <Temporo> But i don't think it should be up to just this group. <gord> I don't think I could vote either way until I know something about it, in my experience I mostly ignore adverts of all forms <Daviey> popey, can you see the point we are currently discussing - comments? <chey> agreed with temporo <popey> i dont think that we should be doing the campaign for adverts <Daviey> Before we investigate costs - we need to decide if it is worth looking into. Do we *want* to advertise? <popey> thats the marketing teams job <popey> they may already be doing this <Daviey> popey, it was your idea! ;) <Darky> Uhm. <popey> what was? <Darky> I run a leaflet printing firm. <VooDoo_Work> no is my answer to be honest :( <Daviey> i spoke with marketing, and they had no plans for advertisement (that they told me of) <popey> Darky: I need to speak to you! <Daviey> popey, remember we were discussing thr Tux500 thingy - and you said a newspaper would be better ;) <popey> i merely suggested a newspaper ad in response to the tux500 thing <popey> agreed <Daviey> that means you get ALL the credit :) <popey> hah <popey> ok, something else I have been thinking about.. <popey> leaflets :) <gord> I think investing such a large amount of effort into an advertisement would not give the rewards that warrent the effort <Darky> Well I could print them free. <Darky> If it helps the community. <popey> Darky: that would be terrific <VooDoo_Work> yes but to be honest i don't think it would <popey> http://hants.lug.org.uk/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InfoPoints/LinuxInfoFlyer <Daviey> Hmm... isn't a leafCD better? <Temporo> Wicked :D <VooDoo_Work> not that i don't appreciate the offer <popey> we made those up for hampshire lug <popey> Daviey: i was thinking a combination of leaflet and cd <popey> which is what we did on software freedom day in london <VooDoo_Work> imho you hand out the leaflets, people dont read them and throw them in the bin <popey> gave each person an ubuntu cd and a leaflet about linux/ free software <popey> VooDoo_Work: that isnt what happened :) <Daviey> okay. First shall we vote on the national press advertisement? <Darky> Well .. I am here for another 25 minutes. I can have the technology to print everything. <popey> give CD & leaflet, not just leaflet <popey> Daviey: vote on what? <VooDoo_Work> no for the press * gord votes against * Daviey now feels it's a bad idea -1 <popey> i would say no to the press <spd106> -1 <popey> yes to leaflets <frederific> -1 from me too <Temporo> +1 <chey> ok no to press yes to leaflets <frederific> leaflets +1 <spd106> +1 leaflets <Daviey> leaflets +1 (with cd) <Temporo> leaflets with cd that is <popey> i have started making some leaflets <gord> leaflets would be good if ubuntu-uk centric <popey> Darky: can I get your contact details <popey> gord: we can do more than one <Darky> Popey - Yes. <popey> the bsd guys have about 10 <popey> i have a load of them <Darky> I will just register first. <popey> i was going to base them on that <popey> Darky: my email is email@example.com - just drop me a mail :) <Darky> Ok let me just write that down. <Daviey> popey, Do you need any help in designing the leaflet? <popey> yes <popey> shall I mail the list? <Daviey> Are their any arty people in here? <Temporo> yes <Temporo> No to arty <Daviey> Temporo, your arty? <Temporo> yes to mail the list [** All Ubunuted up the loudmouth man stumbles late into the room] <Daviey> LoudMouthMan, take a seat quietly <Daviey> shh! <Darky> Uhm. <gord> I have much experience with inkscape if that is of help <LoudMouthMan> back and watchnig , hi sorry i was late. <Daviey> Okay popey can you bang off an email to the list begging for artistic help? <Darky> I have a graphic design team, but I would need something for the design team to base their ideas on. <popey> yes Daviey <popey> wow <Daviey> :) Darky you will fast become our best friend <popey> heh <Temporo> Darky that's immense. <VooDoo_Work> what about ubuntu-uk business cards? <Darky> I will help will printing need's. <popey> of course we need to figure out the delivery method to the grubby mits of the people we are targetting <popey> lug meets, computer fairs etc <Darky> May I just suggest something? <popey> go * Daviey suggests *not* handing them out at lugs <gord> I propose we get a hot air balloon and fly over the uk from john-o-groats to lands end dropping leaflets wherever we go <popey> heh <Darky> Local City Centres. <frederific> +32436543246 gord <chey> LOL out at the littering fine <chey> *ouch even <popey> ahh <Darky> Well what I could do is. <popey> shopping centres Darky ? <Darky> 250,000 - Leaflets. <Daviey> Could we contact various universities and ask them to give them to freshers (IT/Computing departments)? <Darky> 2500 - Posters <JohnRobert> I really shouldn't buy a zx spectrum <popey> Darky: that would be awesome <Darky> 125000 - Business Cards. <gord> +1 Daviey, I think its best to target people who are more likely to be able to handle ubuntu on their own <LoudMouthMan> Davemorris is already on that for the Brighton area, we can Speak to Pete re Southampton and work from there. <Darky> Something around them figures. <frederific> Daviey - Tony Arnold at Manchester might have contacts at other unis <VooDoo_Work> i certainly suggest a little donation to Darky if he did do all the printing <LoudMouthMan> Darky , do you own a printnig company then ? <frederific> i propose a sainthood <Darky> VooDoo - It's ok mate, I have been a Ubuntu fan for a while now. <VooDoo_Work> and i'd have a few hundred ubuntu-uk business cards <Darky> And I really want to help make the name stand out. <popey> i would be weary of business cards <popey> there is a specific process for ubuntu business cards <Darky> LoudMouthMan - Yes I do based in Leicestershire. <LoudMouthMan> wary even ? <popey> wary yes <VooDoo_Work> ubuntu-uk ones? <Daviey> Ubuntu Member biz cards? <popey> there are ubuntu member cards <LoudMouthMan> Darky , ahh then see me after and lets swap business details i need to support a printing company for my own business <grin> <gord> I don't see the point of business cards in this situation <popey> i think that if you made ubuntu-uk ones it would dilute the brand and prestige of the ubuntu ones <Daviey> gord, +1 <Temporo> I think leaflets are better <Darky> Going downstairs for a drink. <VooDoo_Work> if i go to someone house to fix their xp machine and leave a business card with ubuntu on it, it plants the seed <Daviey> Okay, any objections to leaflets? <frederific> gord/popey +1, there's no point Darky wasting his money on them * LoudMouthMan has three 1 for business , 1 for his blog and 1 for fun <chey> gord/popey +1 <Daviey> *noted... no objections <Daviey> Okay vote on ubuntu-uk leaflets: <Daviey> +1 <frederific> +1 <VooDoo_Work> +1 <popey> +1 <chey> +1 <spd106> +1 <gord> +1 <LoudMouthMan> this is interesting snice I was speaking to canonical about gettnig stationary and literature and cd cases printed here in the uk . <LoudMouthMan> so <LoudMouthMan> +1 <Daviey> Vote: Carried - woo we'll have leaflets <Temporo> +1 * Temporo XD <Daviey> Okay, I'm out of points. anybody else want to chuck in with "Other Business"? <frederific> Roudn of appluase to Dell? <popey> i had a point <LoudMouthMan> yeah <popey> i put on the agenda <LoudMouthMan> for two reasons <Daviey> clap clap clap <Darky> Back. <VooDoo_Work> did that at the begining :) <Daviey> popey, you missed it <popey> oh <popey> :( <popey> what was the decision? <Daviey> popey, didn't get carried :( <popey> hmmm * Daviey thought it was a good idea - but without anybody pushing for it - it fell through <LoudMouthMan> they approved my 10k business account and they told me about the Ubuntu stuff. <LoudMouthMan> what was it ? <Darky> So what am I not printing? <gord> I thought that the idea of being able to give local support was good but the idea of a map I thought was bad, I think a 'choose an area closest to you' thing is better <Daviey> biz cards <Darky> So leaflets is a go-ahead> <chey> i would agree location by county or nearest city ok <Daviey> Darky, but we are really excited about leaflets <popey> gord: thats what it does! <Darky> Well I will be sending an email to Alan shortly. <popey> LoudMouthMan: can you elaborate? <Daviey> Shall we re-open the point? <popey> so there is minimal duplication of effort? <Daviey> popey, sell it to us - <popey> nah Daviey dont worry <LoudMouthMan> popey on what ? <gord> a map raises privacy issues though popey and efficiency issues <popey> what you just said LoudMouthMan <popey> gord: no it doesnt <popey> you only register if you want to <LoudMouthMan> the business accun thing ? <LoudMouthMan> account even <popey> that and the canonical discussions <Daviey> LoudMouthMan, showing where you luve on a ubuntu-uk map <Daviey> s/luve/live <popey> Daviey: NO that is NOT what it is <LoudMouthMan> heh . well ive been doing business with dell like forever. <popey> it is about people offering support <popey> not showing where you live <Darky> Popey - Will you be able to gather up a few design ideas for the leaflets, then my design team will see what they can do for you. <popey> ok Darky <gord> I wouldnt mind giving support in that kind of a fashion but I don't want my address plastered over the net <LoudMouthMan> and suddenly they drop it on me that oh we will give you a credit account for 10k on 30days . out of the freakin blue <frederific> you see, this is why you need to be here when your item is up for debate, or leave detailed notes on the wiki :P <LoudMouthMan> which does wonders for my sales prospects. <Daviey> popey, I was pointing out the privacy issue - i know it's more than that <popey> heh <popey> nice LoudMouthMan :) <chey> Grats LoudMouthMan <LoudMouthMan> meanwhile Ive been pushing on Dell to give me ubuntu preinstalled and I get a call from my account manager saying . There you go . <Daviey> hehe <popey> :) <chey> :D <Daviey> life must be pretty damn good for a LoudMouthMan <LoudMouthMan> meanwhile Ive been installing Ubuntu on a series of dual boot machines for interested parties. <LoudMouthMan> and offering an hour of training . <Daviey> Who have you been targeting? <LoudMouthMan> Im looking at offering on the canonical support packages under redhack to my clients as a sort of "big red bus" security policy. <LoudMouthMan> Evey small and medium business in the Sussex/Surry area. <LoudMouthMan> every even <Darky> If we did get dell to start letting it's customer choose from Win XP - Ubuntu. <Daviey> And has success been good? <Daviey> Darky, have you seen http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6610901.stm <LoudMouthMan> well sharons coming to work for me as accounts/admin person so it cant be bad. <LoudMouthMan> plsu I will be streaming/podcasting about open source and web2.0 and sme awareness witha new client next week. <Daviey> LoudMouthMan, nice to see a Ubunteroo doing well. <Darky> Be Right Back - Just Restarting PC. <LoudMouthMan> I think it is because of Ubuntu that we all do well. <Daviey> Anybody have any other Ubuntu achievements they would like to share? <LoudMouthMan> I for one will be happy to receive Ubuntu laptops that dont need rebooting into safe mode to uninstall macafee <Daviey> :) <Daviey> Anything else for the meeting? <VooDoo_Work> i'm planning on doing xen vps on ubuntu servers :) had a successful test earlier today :) plan = next year when i've learnt it :) <frederific> so, whats going on with LRL? Do we have a stand? Who's going? etc <VooDoo_Work> plans for ubuntu-men? are we taking that firther? <Daviey> VooDoo_Work, xen vps servers.. Sounds nice! <Darky> Back. <Daviey> frederific, not sure - i think LoudMouthMan is speaking tho <LoudMouthMan> we have a stand , John Levin is in charge <LoudMouthMan> im not speaking ! <Daviey> who is then? I know somebody is <LoudMouthMan> heeheh we have a bof session <Temporo> Was mentioned a while back to have ubuntu-men as a CSS clan group <VooDoo_Work> Daviey: it worked what i did with them this morning, shame my wan port on my router busted <frederific> what about that jono chap who's sometime's in, community chap, is he speaking? <LoudMouthMan> CounterStrike Source ? <Temporo> Yeah <LoudMouthMan> ahh because Ubuntu-men as webdesigners does sound half as butch <Daviey> frederific, you know is is one of presenters on lugradio? <VooDoo_Work> could someone do an ubuntu skin for the players? <frederific> yeah, was kidding (sarcasm don't work on IRC :() <popey> VooDoo_Work: i have configured the site, just pondering content :) <LoudMouthMan> yes its important to know this is not #lugradio , hehe <Daviey> Ubuntu-men - i noticed the irc channel is now registerd * LoudMouthMan puts head in hands and says " Oh no ...it isnt is it ?" <andy101> did anything important happen in the meeting (I missed it as I was at Uni) <Daviey> andy101, still on - a few minor things <frederific> what've we got left to discuss? <Daviey> Unless anybody has anything else.. we need to plan next meeting <popey> in fact VooDoo_Work feel free to take the dns back, i am not going to have any time any time soon to do anything with it I am afraid * Daviey suggests 4 weeks <frederific> hehe "have a short meeting, then plan another for a few days" didnt someone say that 80mins ago? <frederific> +1 Daviey <gord> 4 weeks time, not on a tuesday or a wednesday <chey> changing the day? <VooDoo_Work> popey: ok no worries, i'll host it on my servers until someone decides what to do with it <popey> sorry VooDoo_Work <Daviey> Taking DaveMorris's point into consideration. Shall we go for a Sunday night? <gord> sunday night sounds good, perhaps 8pm though <Daviey> VOTE: Sunday 3rd June: <Daviey> +1 <VooDoo_Work> popey: not a problem at all mate <gord> +1 <LoudMouthMan> as long as it doesnt run into lost. <popey> +1 <LoudMouthMan> HAHAHAHAH <LoudMouthMan> what am I sayin g <Temporo> +1 <LoudMouthMan> yep <LoudMouthMan> +1 <spd106> +1 <txwikinger> +1 <Darky> popey - If I send you an email will you assure me you will not pass on my details? <gord> I think LoudMouthMan just exploded <Daviey> LoudMouthMan, surely you 'timeshift it'? <VooDoo_Work> popey: odne <chey> +1 <VooDoo_Work> done even <LoudMouthMan> I would if I really watched it. <LoudMouthMan> mostly I just letch after Evangeline Lily <Daviey> Okay, unless anybody has anything else. Shall we call it done? <VooDoo_Work> +1 done <frederific> +1 <popey> done <Temporo> Done. <chey> +1