Ubuntu Wiki

(04:00:51 PM) pleia2: ok, happy meeting time :)
(04:01:04 PM) greg-g: happy happy joy joy
(04:01:09 PM) Palintheus: \o/
(04:01:26 PM) peanutb: meeting time
(04:01:27 PM) peanutb: rawr
(04:01:38 PM) ***peanutb has to go put some of his clothes for washing
(04:02:05 PM) erov left the room (quit: ).
(04:02:47 PM) pleia2: Zelut: care to tell us about representing the team at UDS? :)
(04:03:11 PM) erov [n=j@c-76-22-137-36.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] entered the room.
(04:03:40 PM) Zelut: sure.  I actually had some ideas that I wanted to get the groups feeling for.
(04:03:49 PM) pleia2: cool
(04:04:16 PM) Zelut: some of the main focuses for community at UDS were 'promotion of loco participation' and 'leveraging existing loco teams for ubuntu improvement'
(04:04:55 PM) Zelut: we spoke about adding something to the installer perhaps letting people know about loco programs and teams in their area.
(04:05:07 PM) Zelut: what are your thoughts on adding something like that / implementation?
(04:05:12 PM) jedijf [n=jim_fish@unaffiliated/jedijf] entered the room.
(04:05:17 PM) erov left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(04:05:38 PM) greg-g: I would appreciate it in theory, but maybe something in the default start page for Firefox
(04:06:09 PM) pleia2: something that would be localized, or a more general?
(04:06:09 PM) greg-g: or a first start, welcome to ubuntu thing
(04:06:19 PM) erov [n=j@c-76-22-137-36.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] entered the room.
(04:06:43 PM) Zelut: we talked about the firefox welcome page and it was kind of decided that few people actually read that whole thing.
(04:06:52 PM) greg-g: Zelut: very true
(04:07:18 PM) Zelut: perhaps a final prompt at the installer that displays teams in your time zone with a link to the loco page(s)?
(04:07:29 PM) greg-g: pleia2: I would assume localized based on what city/timezone the user selected
(04:08:00 PM) pleia2: interesting idea
(04:08:04 PM) greg-g: I'm just not sure if the installer is the right place for it, personally, but I have no real alternative to give
(04:08:11 PM) Zelut: yeah, when you select New York for your time zone it'll show you a list of locos in that time zone and you can select one and get the information.
(04:08:43 PM) peanutb: i think it might be a better idea to make it a "support" option
(04:08:56 PM) peanutb: have some kind of support wizard or something
(04:09:35 PM) Zelut: well support could be dangerous too.. some teams are not really put together for formal support and people are redirected to #ubuntu.
(04:09:45 PM) greg-g: right
(04:10:02 PM) Zelut: we don't want to advertise formal support and then leave new users completely disappointed because the two people in your IRC channel can't help them setup X, Y and Z.
(04:10:14 PM) reliantfc3 left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(04:10:20 PM) Zelut: but a participation setup can simply show them how / where they can participate in their area..
(04:10:33 PM) pleia2: I wonder about the installer though, people generally aren't thinking about wanting to branch out and check out teams while they're doing an installation, it might put the idea that "oh, that thing exists" in their head, but I'm not sure much more than that
(04:10:54 PM) greg-g: pleia2: that is what I was thinking
(04:11:39 PM) Zelut: do you have another suggestion on when we can present it to them in addition to what we're already doing?
(04:11:57 PM) pleia2: I think the firefox thought was equally as effective
(04:12:02 PM) peanutb: Zelut: i see what you are saying
(04:12:12 PM) Zelut: I think the installer is the only time/place that we actually have their attention..
(04:12:27 PM) pleia2: I guess I'm just not convinced we have their attention :)
(04:12:40 PM) peanutb: unless we make a clippy clone, that annoys them
(04:12:45 PM) greg-g: I mean, who are the people we are going for?  Not the people that keep their /home dir separate during an install, so we could put another default bookmark bext the BBC feed with a title "Ubuntu In Your Area!" or similar
(04:13:27 PM) peanutb: that sounds a bit better
(04:13:37 PM) greg-g: a bit, but not perfect
(04:13:38 PM) peanutb: just so people see it and click
(04:13:42 PM) greg-g: right
(04:14:05 PM) pleia2: greg-g: +1
(04:14:16 PM) greg-g: because some people don't have net when installing (laptops come to mind) and LoCo information changes relatively more frequentyly than every 6 months
(04:14:29 PM) Zelut: another really simple solution was to leave a small white area on the printed CDs so teams could stamp the team info on them before distribution.
(04:14:45 PM) greg-g: how.... low tech, and ingenious!
(04:14:48 PM) Zelut: doesn't alter any of the installation and just leaves the printed information.
(04:15:20 PM) Zelut: I've been doing something similar for the Utah Team for quite a while.  I put my printed Ubuntu business cards inside each CD so they know who they can contact and where to find more information.
(04:15:34 PM) greg-g: nice
(04:15:36 PM) Zelut: I think I prefer the last option actually..
(04:15:57 PM) greg-g: the white space/stamp method does sound pretty neat/effective
(04:16:00 PM) pleia2: that's a good idea
(04:17:35 PM) Zelut: ok.  We'll try to get that formalized for 8.04..
(04:17:46 PM) greg-g: well done, that was easy :)
(04:18:37 PM) H264 [n=walter@71-220-226-119.eugn.qwest.net] entered the room.
(04:19:10 PM) erov left the room (quit: ).
(04:19:18 PM) Zelut: we also talked about, and this is something I want to try and pursue on a US Teams level, of taking advantage of the great people we have for improving Ubuntu from within.
(04:19:47 PM) Zelut: advocacy and marketing is always welcome, but we have such great people that could work on bugs and could really help make a super-solid release.
(04:20:02 PM) H264: hmm
(04:20:08 PM) pleia2: yeah
(04:20:22 PM) erov [n=j@c-76-22-137-36.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] entered the room.
(04:20:24 PM) Zelut: I think part of the issue currently is a somewhat lack of user education on 1) how to properly submit bugs 2) triage existing bugs 3) fix bugs.
(04:20:38 PM) ***greg-g agrees
(04:20:50 PM) Zelut: if we really focused, as a group, on bugs for 8.04 it could be *so* solid and bug free.
(04:20:57 PM) greg-g: which is why the Michigan team is working on packaging apps, it is something that helps directly in developement
(04:21:43 PM) Zelut: the last three releases, edgy, feisty and gutsy are kind of focused on pushing the envelope.  for the next LTS release we should really focus on solid packages and fewer bugs.
(04:21:58 PM) greg-g: so we should have some loco team run Bug Hug days?
(04:22:00 PM) Zelut: how many people would be interested in a mini-open week for US Teams education on bug work?
(04:22:14 PM) Zelut: (may not take an entire week, but you get the idea)
(04:22:23 PM) H264: a week would be good
(04:22:39 PM) H264: or even a month
(04:22:50 PM) pleia2: Zelut: +1
(04:22:55 PM) greg-g: I like the idea, +1
(04:23:31 PM) Zelut: I think if we focus as a group on bugs for this release it'll be more solid than anything else we've done.
(04:23:33 PM) peanutb: though i have no authority, i like it.
(04:23:41 PM) H264: Java is the only language that I could really help with right now...
(04:23:46 PM) Zelut: just think about the number of people on each team, and if we can leverage that amount of effort!
(04:24:08 PM) Zelut: H264: I can't code for crap and I do a lot of bug work.  submission is just as important as patching.
(04:24:08 PM) greg-g: H264: bug triaging is really helpful too, and that doesn't require programming knowledge
(04:24:37 PM) Zelut: I think if we make a solid release this time we can then focus our collective effort post release on marketing.. but make it *really* worth marketing!
(04:24:44 PM) H264: hmm
(04:25:09 PM) H264: is there any Java used in Ubuntu?
(04:25:24 PM) brandonperry: what do you mean?
(04:25:34 PM) peanutb: H264, OOO has a bit of it
(04:25:35 PM) brandonperry: like, gcj?
(04:26:29 PM) H264: gcj... isnt that just the VM?
(04:26:51 PM) brandonperry: it is the compiler
(04:27:05 PM) H264: or it the compiler (.class) and the VM?
(04:28:40 PM) Zelut: should we schedule some time for bug work education?  perhaps the end of the month?
(04:29:06 PM) greg-g: +1
(04:29:37 PM) brandonperry: by bug work, do you mean how to submit bug?
(04:29:40 PM) brandonperry: bugs*
(04:29:52 PM) Zelut: submission for starters, yes.
(04:30:05 PM) Zelut: bugs won't get fixed if they aren't submitted.
(04:30:14 PM) brandonperry: that is probably a pretty good idea
(04:30:16 PM) Zelut: after that triaging and organizing bugs
(04:30:40 PM) snap-l [n=craig@adsl-69-209-131-106.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] entered the room.
(04:30:46 PM) Zelut: I know a lot of people that don't know how to submit bugs, and loco members I think are a great resource to educate on that.
(04:30:49 PM) greg-g: H264: from this search, it seems like there is a bit for you to look at: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+search?text=java
(04:31:00 PM) Zelut: I have kind of an outline I need to Wiki on manual and automated bug submission
(04:31:11 PM) InHisName [n=Administ@c-71-225-221-149.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] entered the room.
(04:31:12 PM) brandonperry: using bug buddy?
(04:31:27 PM) Zelut: I've also sat down with the QA team at UDS and asked them "how do you like your bugs"
(04:32:28 PM) Zelut: they gave me some tips as far as what "proper" bugs are, and what kind of bugs won't get any attention.
(04:32:33 PM) H264: greg-g: ha, lots like lots to look at... thanks
(04:32:41 PM) Zelut: if we want to try and schedule a time I'd be happy to outline all this for us teams
(04:32:43 PM) greg-g: H264: np
(04:33:14 PM) greg-g: Zelut: I think it would be a good idea, at least to get the information out there and available for teams to use
(04:33:53 PM) Zelut: do you all think this could be a reasonable focus for us teams pending 8.04?
(04:34:02 PM) Zelut: it doesn't mean stop working on other things, but really put some focus on this
(04:34:42 PM) UncleSam left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(04:35:41 PM) brandonperry: Zelut, if we are looking at bugs pending for 8.04, I think more than one session would make sense
(04:35:42 PM) greg-g: I think it would be a good fit for Michigan
(04:36:00 PM) brandonperry: especially for an OS under devel
(04:36:07 PM) Zelut: brandonperry: that does make sense.  I think I'm just looking to schedule the first one.
(04:36:13 PM) brandonperry: k
(04:36:13 PM) H264: maybe a week a month till its release?
(04:36:43 PM) brandonperry: once a month?
(04:36:47 PM) Zelut: H264: like "US Teams Bug Week" and we just hang out in here and in respective channels and work on bugs?
(04:36:57 PM) brandonperry: that would be very nice
(04:37:20 PM) brandonperry: I think thanksgiving would be a great week to start
(04:37:28 PM) H264: sure
(04:37:30 PM) Zelut: We could yet again really put US Teams on the map with a project like this.
(04:37:34 PM) greg-g: with some resources for the teams to work from, or a "training day" each month or something
(04:38:05 PM) Zelut: sounds good
(04:38:34 PM) Zelut: there are a lot of representatives from the different states here today.  Feelings on submitting an email to your team lists to get additional feelings on participation?
(04:38:44 PM) brandonperry: sure
(04:38:51 PM) Zelut: I've done that this week with my team and got a really good response on interest.
(04:39:01 PM) greg-g: got it, I needed to send out an email tonight anways :)
(04:40:07 PM) Zelut: pak33m: ping
(04:40:33 PM) brandonperry: heh, I prefer syn/ack
(04:41:08 PM) ***tonyyarusso tunes back in
(04:41:36 PM) tonyyarusso: I'd be happy to write an e-mail, especially if someone pre-fabbed most of the content :P
(04:42:21 PM) Zelut: tonyyarusso: well you know better than any how to approach your team I think :)
(04:42:36 PM) greg-g: "hey, everyone, you wanna learn how to submit/triage/fix bugs to make Ubuntu 8.04 AWESOME?!  I think you do!"
(04:42:46 PM) tonyyarusso: Zelut: fair enough
(04:42:59 PM) Zelut: greg-g: exactly.
(04:44:02 PM) greg-g: anything else from UDS Zelut?
(04:44:23 PM) Zelut: greg-g: we also talked about better showing appreciation for work done.
(04:44:42 PM) Zelut: I think a "contributor of the month" or something could help make people feel appreciated.
(04:45:03 PM) H264: hmm
(04:45:05 PM) Zelut: I think many of us have seen how you can work really hard and then it seems like nobody cares.
(04:45:09 PM) greg-g: Ubuntu-wide level or local?
(04:45:16 PM) Zelut: just a little note or something can go a long way.
(04:45:16 PM) H264: maybe more like the team of the month? or both?
(04:45:36 PM) Zelut: I think each team could submit their contributor of the month or something
(04:46:02 PM) brandonperry: haha, yeah
(04:46:26 PM) UncleSam [n=USbot@ubuntu/bot/unclesam] entered the room.
(04:46:28 PM) greg-g: yeah, I have a couple people who took some great initiative, so yeah, that would be good
(04:47:03 PM) Zelut: this was discussed kind of in parallel to avoiding burnout.  many of us work really, really hard and its hard not to burn out eventually.
(04:47:26 PM) Zelut: I think appreciation can help to avoid that burnout, but also just keeping each other in mind helps too.
(04:47:50 PM) tonyyarusso: Zelut: could include it in the newly-instituted team reports
(04:47:51 PM) boredandblogging: anyone have a cool loco project that they would like to publicize on the UWN?
(04:47:59 PM) greg-g: Zelut, I think your contributions to Ubuntu and the US Team in specific have been tremendous, thank you
(04:48:07 PM) greg-g: :)
(04:48:31 PM) tonyyarusso: boredandblogging: not yet
(04:48:32 PM) greg-g: boredandblogging: yeah, our packaging jam
(04:48:37 PM) greg-g: it is over
(04:48:43 PM) Zelut: greg-g: :) and doing that for members of your team not only makes them feel valuable but I'm sure will give them added incentive to keep going.
(04:49:01 PM) Zelut: this project is all about community after all.  let's celebrate the people that make up that community
(04:49:04 PM) greg-g: boredandblogging: you mean an upcoming project or one that went well?
(04:49:44 PM) boredandblogging: greg-g: either one
(04:50:06 PM) boredandblogging: greg-g: tell me more
(04:50:47 PM) greg-g: boredandblogging: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/Projects/PackagingJam1
(04:51:00 PM) dantalizing [n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net] entered the room.
(04:51:15 PM) greg-g: boredandblogging: I'll try and write a better synopsis for it
(04:51:29 PM) boredandblogging: greg-g: cool, let me know when you get done
(04:51:48 PM) greg-g: boredandblogging: you want it for tonight?
(04:52:12 PM) boredandblogging: greg-g: if possible
(04:52:21 PM) greg-g: got it
(04:52:41 PM) Zelut: ok, so when should we schedule the bug education week?  thanksgiving week?
(04:53:12 PM) brandonperry: I think that would be more than appropriate
(04:53:19 PM) tonyyarusso: That might work.  Probably want to avoid 4:30 PM on Thursday or so though.  :P
(04:53:20 PM) brandonperry: you know, in thanks giving
(04:53:34 PM) tonyyarusso: Oooh, nice marketing brandonperry
(04:53:37 PM) brandonperry: ja!
(04:54:10 PM) Zelut: certain time / day?  if some of us are going to need to run education sprints it'll need to be scheduled of course.
(04:54:31 PM) brandonperry: afetrnoon
(04:54:32 PM) Zelut: also, can each team representative in here commit to inviting their team members to participate?
(04:54:35 PM) brandonperry: afternoon
(04:54:48 PM) greg-g: I will invite my membes
(04:55:16 PM) brandonperry: I will try, not sure how resposive they will be
(04:55:57 PM) greg-g: won't know till we try, I might get a couple (<5)
(04:56:22 PM) brandonperry: yeah
(04:56:23 PM) Zelut: well lets start with inviting and I'll follow up at the end of the week?
(04:56:43 PM) Zelut: let them know we'll be having training and QA sessions during the afternoons of thanksgiving week?
(04:56:48 PM) tonyyarusso: ya
(04:56:57 PM) erov left the room (quit: ).
(04:57:01 PM) greg-g: cool
(04:57:02 PM) tonyyarusso: So topics to mention are bugs, packaging, what else?
(04:57:34 PM) Zelut: at this point proper bug submission, both manual and auto and basic launchpad use.
(04:57:47 PM) Zelut: baby steps :)
(04:58:05 PM) Zelut: then we'll talk about triaging bugs, proper labeling and bug cleanup within launchpad.
(04:58:23 PM) Zelut: and then moving toward cooperation with motu on packaging and package contribution
(04:58:37 PM) Zelut: sound like a decent outline?  basic to advanced.. should be something for everyone.
(04:58:55 PM) erov [n=j@c-76-22-137-36.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] entered the room.
(04:59:10 PM) greg-g: I like it
(04:59:19 PM) brandonperry: yeah
(05:00:08 PM) Zelut: cool.  I'll write up a basic outline and see if I can get members of those parts of the community available for QA.
(05:00:23 PM) Zelut: lets plan for the afternoons during thanksgiving week and we'll dive in after that.
(05:00:42 PM) Zelut: so prior to that get the word out to your teams and let them know we want their help
(05:00:58 PM) brandonperry: yeah, I stick t in our topic
(05:01:01 PM) brandonperry: stuck*
(05:01:07 PM) Zelut: we've got so many great people in loco teams that we can leverage--8.04 is going to pwn every other distro because of us teams
(05:01:09 PM) Zelut: ~w00t
(05:01:26 PM) greg-g: \o/
(05:01:31 PM) boredandblogging: is this QA thing that is going to get finalized tonight?
(05:01:47 PM) boredandblogging: bah, meant to ask if it was getting finalized tonight
(05:01:56 PM) H264: dthacker: you there?
(05:02:09 PM) Zelut: boredandblogging: I will work on an outline and start to contact some upstream participation.
(05:02:20 PM) Zelut: boredandblogging: I think in the meantime everyone else can just get the word out to their teams?
(05:02:24 PM) erov left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(05:02:48 PM) boredandblogging: Zelut: yeah
(05:03:15 PM) boredandblogging: Zelut: let me or johnc4510 know when everything is decided so we can put in the UWN
(05:03:32 PM) erov [n=j@c-76-22-137-36.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] entered the room.
(05:03:46 PM) Zelut: boredandblogging: basic outline will be mon for basic bug education, wed for triaging and labeling and friday for packaging?
(05:04:25 PM) boredandblogging: Zelut: friday of thanksgiving week?
(05:04:39 PM) Zelut: do we want to get it done prior to thur/fri that week?
(05:04:49 PM) boredandblogging: yeah, probably
(05:05:02 PM) boredandblogging: lots of people are travelling or unavailable friday
(05:05:14 PM) Zelut: mon, tue, wed then it is.
(05:06:46 PM) Zelut: is there a UTC time that works for everyone?
(05:07:12 PM) erov left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(05:08:22 PM) boredandblogging: probably want to do it before 3pm EST
(05:08:31 PM) boredandblogging: people will be hitting the roads or skies
(05:08:52 PM) Zelut: so is it really the best week trying to work around travel? or should we do it the week after?
(05:09:07 PM) greg-g: maybe week after in all reality
(05:09:22 PM) Zelut: week after is what I was initially thinking
(05:09:31 PM) boredandblogging: yeah
(05:10:08 PM) UncleSam left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(05:11:22 PM) peanutb: is the meeting still going?
(05:11:37 PM) Zelut: I think we were just wrapping up the scheduling
(05:11:43 PM) peanutb: ah ok
(05:12:20 PM) greg-g: well, then is the question just what time of day do we want to do it the week after thanksgiving?
(05:12:48 PM) Zelut: 5:00pm MST works for me
(05:13:19 PM) Zelut: I may be able to do it earlier, but that'll put me just after work so I have no other obligations.
(05:13:32 PM) greg-g: sure, evening is probably better than during the work day
(05:13:38 PM) brandonperry: I think that 6:00 would be best for most people since everyone I know get off work at 5
(05:14:19 PM) Zelut: maybe 6:00pm MST, which makes 8:00pm on the east coast and after 5:00 for the west coast?
(05:14:25 PM) ***Zelut shrugs
(05:14:42 PM) brandonperry: that sounds good
(05:15:00 PM) brandonperry: how long were you planning on doing the sesions
(05:15:17 PM) Zelut: probably about an hour long?
(05:15:23 PM) greg-g: sounds good
(05:15:25 PM) brandonperry: yeah
(05:16:39 PM) Zelut: mon, tue, wed again or mon, wed, fri?
(05:16:52 PM) brandonperry: well
(05:17:00 PM) brandonperry: I think spreading them out would be a good idea
(05:17:04 PM) greg-g: +1
(05:17:29 PM) brandonperry: that gives the contributors a day and a half to do what they were taught mon until wed night
(05:17:41 PM) greg-g: heh
(05:17:41 PM) brandonperry: gives a bit more sinking time
(05:17:44 PM) greg-g: right
(05:17:49 PM) Zelut: ok. mon, wed & fri. 6:00pm MST.. and whatever that translates to in UTC :)
(05:17:54 PM) brandonperry: haha
(05:18:00 PM) greg-g: +1
(05:18:07 PM) greg-g: and time for dinner, good meeting everyone
(05:18:08 PM) Zelut: it'll be about one hour
(05:18:32 PM) ***Zelut picks pounds the javel and says "meeting adjourned"