Ubuntu Studio Packaging Team Meeting 27th March 2007

Points in the agenda

• Artwork packages.
• Responsabilities of packagers with their packages.
• Frequency of meetings.
• Let's fix bugs of our included apps when we have free time.

Log

2007-03-27T16:11:47 <luisbg> t h e m e e t i n g i s s t a r t i n g

2007-03-27T16:12:04 <luisbg> first point in the agenda...

2007-03-27T16:12:10 <luisbg> artwork packages

2007-03-27T16:12:41 <luisbg> somebody of the artwork team can say which artwork packages are still needed to be done?

2007-03-27T16:13:27 <AstralJava> Neither from the artwork team is present.

2007-03-27T16:13:35 <luisbg> well...

2007-03-27T16:13:39 <luisbg> janne

2007-03-27T16:13:54 <luisbg> as you are the one with experience packaging art

2007-03-27T16:14:02 <luisbg> what do you think of packaging the rest?

2007-03-27T16:14:09 <AstralJava> Judging from testing reports, iconset is still under construction, and some extra work is needed for gdm-theme.

2007-03-27T16:14:23 <_MMA_> I disagree.

2007-03-27T16:14:30 <_MMA_> GDM is fine.

2007-03-27T16:14:44 <_MMA_> ttoine had a issue with gnome-slpas.

2007-03-27T16:14:45 <AstralJava> Also, update for gnome-splash came just in, so it needs a new .deb.

2007-03-27T16:14:47 <_MMA_> gah

2007-03-27T16:14:51 <_MMA_>

2007-03-27T16:14:58 <luisbg> heh

2007-03-27T16:15:07 <AstralJava> gdm-theme needs work for murrine dependency.

2007-03-27T16:15:28 <crimsun> ttoine: hi?

2007-03-27T16:16:05 <luisbg> so janne

2007-03-27T16:16:09 <ttoine> crimsun: i think that my gdm is not with good color depth

2007-03-27T16:16:24 <luisbg> the question is... when the art is ready to be packaged are you willing to package it?

2007-03-27T16:16:26 <ttoine> crimsun: can i pm you ?

2007-03-27T16:16:49 <crimsun> ttoine: I'm not a graphics/gnome person, sorry (not to mention I'm traveling atm).

2007-03-27T16:16:59 <AstralJava> I'll continue working on them after meeting.

2007-03-27T16:17:01 <_MMA_> luisbg: We have been working on it for 2 days.

2007-03-27T16:17:06 <luisbg> ttoine, crimsun, we are in a meeting right now

2007-03-27T16:17:09 <AstralJava> The goal is to get it done within 2 days.

2007-03-27T16:17:18 <luisbg> ok...

2007-03-27T16:17:25 <luisbg> that said we can get to the next point

2007-03-27T16:17:38 <luisbg> inside the packaging team

2007-03-27T16:17:56 <luisbg> how can I say it

2007-03-27T16:18:06 <luisbg> everybody is going to have there "jurisdiction"

2007-03-27T16:18:24 <luisbg> as stated above... artwork packages are responsability of mr. janne =)

2007-03-27T16:18:29 <luisbg> and for the rest...

2007-03-27T16:18:35 <luisbg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/MaintainedPackages

2007-03-27T16:18:45 <luisbg> I created this wiki page in the packagers zone of the wiki

2007-03-27T16:19:17 <luisbg> [I'm going to give a minute to check it out]

2007-03-27T16:20:06 <luisbg> any future work related with the meta's should be talked with joejaxx

2007-03-27T16:20:28 <luisbg> we can say that as janne is the "master" of artwork he is of metas

2007-03-27T16:20:29 * _MMA_ looks.

2007-03-27T16:20:32 <luisbg> on the other hand...

2007-03-27T16:20:56 <luisbg> wired, murrine, enblend

2007-03-27T16:21:01 <luisbg> what are their status?

2007-03-27T16:21:13 <luisbg> damn... tsmithe isn't here

2007-03-27T16:21:23 <_MMA_> Wired has issues.

2007-03-27T16:21:36 <_MMA_> murrine and enblend is in the repos.

2007-03-27T16:21:38 <luisbg> _MMA_, explain yourself

2007-03-27T16:22:00 <luisbg> let's take this opportunity to have an update on those packages

2007-03-27T16:22:04 <_MMA_> "Wired" has their license files in PDF format.

2007-03-27T16:22:12 <_MMA_> That doesnt fly.

2007-03-27T16:22:30 <luisbg> so toby should be dealing with that right?

2007-03-27T16:22:41 <_MMA_> At least this is the info I got from Toby.

2007-03-27T16:22:44 <_MMA_> Yes.

2007-03-27T16:22:54 <luisbg> ok... and very important also

2007-03-27T16:23:03 <luisbg> once the packages get to repo it isn't the end of the line

2007-03-27T16:23:25 <luisbg> all the responsables for the packages must keep them up to date and handle any bugs that might come

2007-03-27T16:23:45 <luisbg> do you agree AstralJava ?

2007-03-27T16:24:33 <AstralJava> Well, that's preferable.

2007-03-27T16:24:44 <luisbg> =) sounds logical but it has never been said

2007-03-27T16:24:44 <AstralJava> But, as I said earlier on, we need backups.

2007-03-27T16:24:54 <luisbg> and my feeling is people are forgetting about this

2007-03-27T16:25:01 <luisbg> what do you mean with backups?

2007-03-27T16:25:27 <AstralJava> And by that I mean someone else needs to get comfortable with the packages in question, so that if the main person in responsible can't make it, the backup person can step up.

2007-03-27T16:25:41 <luisbg> totally agree

2007-03-27T16:25:53 <luisbg> that person should be decided by the responsable of the package

2007-03-27T16:26:25 <luisbg> if a work in one package has to be done and doesn't have time, he should ask some of the rest of us to handle it

2007-03-27T16:26:32 <_MMA_> I would like to get jussi01 to be Janne's backup.

2007-03-27T16:26:37 <AstralJava> I like the idea.

2007-03-27T16:26:44 <luisbg> the it's done

2007-03-27T16:27:00 <luisbg> AstralJava, tell him about it, you are his mentor kinda

2007-03-27T16:27:11 <AstralJava> But I'd still like one backup person named after the main responsible, in the wiki.

2007-03-27T16:27:16 <luisbg> below this obvious insanity... my aim and target

2007-03-27T16:27:35 <luisbg> is that the packaging team is self-orderd and self-maintained

2007-03-27T16:27:36 <AstralJava> If backup can't make it either, then the rest of the team needs to pick up the slack.

2007-03-27T16:28:09 <luisbg> AstralJava, you are asking for an other column saying "Backup:"

2007-03-27T16:28:18 <AstralJava> Yes.

2007-03-27T16:28:23 <luisbg> consider it done

2007-03-27T16:28:28 <AstralJava> Thanks!

2007-03-27T16:28:32 <luisbg> and for your stuff I will add jussi01

2007-03-27T16:28:39 <luisbg> I must insist again...

2007-03-27T16:28:41 <AstralJava> If he agrees, of course.

2007-03-27T16:28:44 <luisbg> <luisbg> below this obvious insanity... my aim and target

2007-03-27T16:28:45 <luisbg> <luisbg> is that the packaging team is self-orderd and self-maintained

2007-03-27T16:28:57 <AstralJava> That's a respectable aim.

2007-03-27T16:29:02 <luisbg> the first step was to get some communication going on

2007-03-27T16:29:06 <luisbg> that is starting to work

2007-03-27T16:29:38 <luisbg> the second step is to work fluently and orderly without me or cory having to use the whip :P

2007-03-27T16:30:22 <luisbg> jussi01 brought up this afternoon something I've been thinking about

2007-03-27T16:30:27 <luisbg> and mentioned last night to Cory...

2007-03-27T16:31:27 <luisbg> one of the "duties" of the packaging team should also be fixing bugs of packages that are important for us

2007-03-27T16:31:38 <luisbg> pretty much the biggest ones we've got in the metas

2007-03-27T16:32:08 <luisbg> right now with the man-force we have it is a task left for when we don't have much else to do

2007-03-27T16:32:28 <luisbg> but in the future when new people come along to give a hand that could be their number one task

2007-03-27T16:32:34 <luisbg> what do you guys think?

2007-03-27T16:33:12 <TheMuso> I think eventually you need to make a time in your release cycle where you simply devote time to bug fixing.

2007-03-27T16:33:30 <TheMuso> And that may work very well in conjunction with the various freezes that universe has.

2007-03-27T16:33:40 <luisbg> TheMuso, true

2007-03-27T16:33:59 <luisbg> anybody else wants to speak about this?

2007-03-27T16:34:11 <AstralJava> Well fixing other bugs than on our own packages will only serve the purpose of getting better at our jobs.

2007-03-27T16:34:38 <luisbg> it's a learning experience

2007-03-27T16:34:39 <AstralJava> Besides, most of us wanna be MOTUs. I wanna be useful for something else besides US, as much as I love the project...

2007-03-27T16:34:51 <luisbg> exactly

2007-03-27T16:35:02 <AstralJava> Something else as well, that's supposed to mean.

2007-03-27T16:35:07 <luisbg> we all agree then

2007-03-27T16:35:08 <AstralJava> I'm not bailing out now. :-p

2007-03-27T16:35:13 <luisbg> LOL

2007-03-27T16:35:24 <luisbg> an other thing that we need to do is...

2007-03-27T16:35:48 <luisbg> when a package is done and in the repos... it should be taken out of the "ToPackage" page and placed into the "Maintained Packages"

2007-03-27T16:36:36 <AstralJava> Yes.

2007-03-27T16:37:03 <luisbg> I'm not going to do that... I will ask the responsibles of the packages to do it

2007-03-27T16:37:21 <luisbg> as they are the ones that know 100% the status of the packages

2007-03-27T16:37:47 <luisbg> _MMA_, you there?

2007-03-27T16:38:09 <_MMA_> yes

2007-03-27T16:38:33 <ttoine> good night

2007-03-27T16:38:36 *** ttoine has left #ubuntustudio-devel

2007-03-27T16:38:37 <_MMA_> night

2007-03-27T16:38:41 <luisbg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/MetapackagesBreakdown <--- at the end of this wiki page

2007-03-27T16:38:50 <luisbg> there is a wishlist of apps that could be packaged right?

2007-03-27T16:39:15 <_MMA_> Alot is packages actually.

2007-03-27T16:39:26 <_MMA_> That list was for what people want in the distro.

2007-03-27T16:39:34 <luisbg> ahhh

2007-03-27T16:39:57 <_MMA_> I think for v2 we shouldnt take on many new packages and just tighten up what we have. Fix bugs.

2007-03-27T16:40:24 <luisbg> make it as flawless and bugfree as possible

2007-03-27T16:40:31 <TheMuso> That doesn't mean as many new packages as possible shouldn't get into universe however.

2007-03-27T16:41:01 <_MMA_> TheMuso: Sure, but we cant overload ourselves.

2007-03-27T16:41:14 <_MMA_> If something good comes along Im all for it.

2007-03-27T16:41:16 <TheMuso> True.

2007-03-27T16:41:20 <AstralJava> Agreed, but we should also keep in mind that some apps might make this more attractive, so carefully selected extra apps should be taken.

2007-03-27T16:41:21 <luisbg> =)

2007-03-27T16:41:37 <_MMA_> But not every little package any user requests.

2007-03-27T16:41:48 <AstralJava> No, certainly not.

2007-03-27T16:41:59 <luisbg> this will be something to deal with more in the future

2007-03-27T16:42:05 <AstralJava> We need to maintain certain quality as well.

2007-03-27T16:42:06 <luisbg> but maybe when we have a nice user base

2007-03-27T16:42:06 <_MMA_> Yes.

2007-03-27T16:42:19 <luisbg> we can make a poll in the forum to decide which new packages to make

2007-03-27T16:42:33 <AstralJava> ...and make the final calls in the team meetings.

2007-03-27T16:42:38 <luisbg> anyway I'm all for quality over quantity

2007-03-27T16:42:50 <_MMA_> luisbg: Yes. We will be more interactive with our users.

2007-03-27T16:43:01 <luisbg> _MMA_, =)_

2007-03-27T16:43:11 <_MMA_> If it becomes possible I would like to finish the work on Soma Suite.

2007-03-27T16:43:24 <luisbg> yeah

2007-03-27T16:43:41 <_MMA_> As I understand we were waiting for some upstream things to happen.

2007-03-27T16:43:59 <_MMA_> Dependency changes and code rewrites.

2007-03-27T16:44:17 <luisbg> yes

2007-03-27T16:44:41 <luisbg> we should check if those things we were waiting for have happened

2007-03-27T16:45:09 <luisbg> I only have one more topic to bring

2007-03-27T16:45:18 <_MMA_> wait

2007-03-27T16:45:22 <luisbg> ok

2007-03-27T16:45:25 <AstralJava> I suppose earlier responsibilities concerning SS still hold, correct?

2007-03-27T16:45:48 <_MMA_> Soma was rexbron and tsmithes area. "Baku" is its dev.

2007-03-27T16:45:49 <luisbg> AstralJava, yes

2007-03-27T16:46:00 <_MMA_> He was really helpful and a Ubuntu user.

2007-03-27T16:46:13 <AstralJava> _MMA_: Partly true. Some of us had some modules to take care of.

2007-03-27T16:46:17 <luisbg> I was planning on talking with rexbron about it

2007-03-27T16:46:20 <_MMA_> Relationships like this we should hold on to.

2007-03-27T16:46:35 <AstralJava> _MMA_: Partly true, again. He dropped all contact at some point.

2007-03-27T16:46:56 <luisbg> AstralJava, what!? I didn't knew that

2007-03-27T16:47:06 <_MMA_> I certainly know we have been a consideration of Ardour while they work on v2.

2007-03-27T16:47:33 <_MMA_> AstralJava: I know Baku has had some things to deal with. School and such.

2007-03-27T16:47:52 <_MMA_> Was nothing personal.

2007-03-27T16:48:01 <AstralJava> Yeah I didn't say that.

2007-03-27T16:48:02 <_MMA_> Just circumstance.

2007-03-27T16:48:07 <_MMA_> I know.

2007-03-27T16:48:16 <AstralJava> Just that problem solving stopped completely in Feb.

2007-03-27T16:48:58 <_MMA_> Im done.

2007-03-27T16:49:01 <luisbg> let's see if we can resume it

2007-03-27T16:49:17 <luisbg> next and maybe last topic?

2007-03-27T16:49:26 <AstralJava> Fire at will.

2007-03-27T16:49:48 <luisbg> heh

2007-03-27T16:50:10 <luisbg> It is a two part thing... first is frequency of this meetings?

2007-03-27T16:50:16 <luisbg> twice a month? once a month?

2007-03-27T16:50:21 <luisbg> every 2 hours?

2007-03-27T16:50:31 <AstralJava> Twice a month is better.

2007-03-27T16:50:42 <TheMuso> So every two weeks?

2007-03-27T16:50:43 <AstralJava> Once a month too rare, once a week too often.

2007-03-27T16:50:46 <_MMA_> +1 twice a month.

2007-03-27T16:51:13 <AstralJava> Can we get those to Ubuntu calendar?

2007-03-27T16:51:14 <luisbg> +1 twice a month

2007-03-27T16:51:23 <AstralJava> I'd like to subscribe to that feed.

2007-03-27T16:51:35 <AstralJava> Would be handy if ours would get into the calendar too.

2007-03-27T16:51:39 <AstralJava> ...by that way.

2007-03-27T16:51:47 <luisbg> _MMA_, what do you reckon, I think it isn't hard to get in it right?

2007-03-27T16:53:41 <_MMA_> hmm...

2007-03-27T16:54:10 <_MMA_> What isnt too hard? Im not understanding.

2007-03-27T16:54:23 <luisbg> getting into the ubuntu calendar

2007-03-27T16:54:28 <_MMA_> Oh....

2007-03-27T16:54:36 <_MMA_> That should be doable.

2007-03-27T16:54:40 <luisbg> =)

2007-03-27T16:54:45 <luisbg> we'll try then

2007-03-27T16:54:46 <_MMA_> Ill poke around about it.

2007-03-27T16:54:56 <luisbg> second part of the meetings planning...

2007-03-27T16:54:57 <_MMA_> Thing is we use very common times.

2007-03-27T16:55:12 <_MMA_> So a time we want might not be availiable.

2007-03-27T16:55:17 <luisbg> true

2007-03-27T16:55:39 <luisbg> and uncommon times can be unconvenient

2007-03-27T16:55:45 <_MMA_> So it will have to be something we look at more.

2007-03-27T16:55:50 <AstralJava> Wasn't it considered moving to #ubuntu-meeting anyway?

2007-03-27T16:56:04 <luisbg> it was an idea

2007-03-27T16:56:20 <_MMA_> I say the packaging meetings be here and overall "Ubuntu Studio" meetings can be in #ubuntu-meeting.

2007-03-27T16:56:32 <luisbg> that was my next point

2007-03-27T16:56:37 <luisbg> "ubuntu studio" meetings

2007-03-27T16:57:03 <AstralJava> Oh okay, sorry for the interruption.

2007-03-27T16:57:08 <luisbg> I think we should start doing them

2007-03-27T16:57:16 <AstralJava> +1

2007-03-27T16:57:31 <_MMA_> +1

2007-03-27T16:57:33 <luisbg> how to do them is the open question

2007-03-27T16:57:41 <luisbg> IMHO there are two ways of doing them

2007-03-27T16:58:03 <luisbg> having the art meeting, the packagers meeting, etc... all together one after the other

2007-03-27T16:58:04 <luisbg> or...

2007-03-27T16:58:32 <luisbg> having every "subteam" having independant meetings and then using the "ubuntu studio" meetings to report what's going on to the rest of teams

2007-03-27T16:58:51 <_MMA_> I think everyone should just be there. I think I should chair them with topic brought up during the course of the month. Along with status of things.

2007-03-27T16:59:02 <luisbg> _MMA_, +1

2007-03-27T16:59:16 <_MMA_> I say 1 hour.

2007-03-27T16:59:25 <AstralJava> Having too many meetings will diminish people's abilities for participation. One big meeting should be good for now.

2007-03-27T16:59:27 <_MMA_> Same with the packages meeting.

2007-03-27T16:59:34 <luisbg> yes

2007-03-27T16:59:52 <_MMA_> So like this:

2007-03-27T17:00:01 <_MMA_> Today the packager meeting.

2007-03-27T17:00:12 <_MMA_> 2 weeks Ubuntu Studio meeting.

2007-03-27T17:00:21 <_MMA_> Then 2 weeks packager meeting.

2007-03-27T17:00:30 <_MMA_> And so on...

2007-03-27T17:00:38 <TheMuso> SOunds good.

2007-03-27T17:00:39 <luisbg> sure

2007-03-27T17:00:41 <luisbg> =)

2007-03-27T17:00:52 <luisbg> let's do this...

2007-03-27T17:01:09 <AstralJava> What about artwork, separate or within Ubuntu Studio meetings?

2007-03-27T17:01:10 <luisbg> let's open a wiki page for future logs of future ubuntu studio meetings

2007-03-27T17:01:30 <luisbg> and in the page of the next meeting people could add points in the agenda they want to bring up

2007-03-27T17:01:35 <_MMA_> AstralJava: "within"

2007-03-27T17:01:49 <AstralJava> Okay, so there are two types of meetings then, got it.

2007-03-27T17:01:58 * _MMA_ also notes that this channel is logged again.

2007-03-27T17:02:39 <luisbg> I should cut out the log of this meeting and post it in the wiki anyway right?

2007-03-27T17:02:40 <AstralJava> Great.

2007-03-27T17:02:45 <AstralJava> Yes.

2007-03-27T17:02:57 <_MMA_> Its in the topic and sorted by day: https://64.62.231.84/~joejaxx/logs/freenode

2007-03-27T17:03:01 <AstralJava> What was decided on the minutes of the meeting?

2007-03-27T17:03:07 <_MMA_> luisbg: +1

2007-03-27T17:03:20 <luisbg> what about my idea of having a place in the wiki where people can bring up points in the agenda for the next meeting?

2007-03-27T17:03:27 <_MMA_> Sure.

2007-03-27T17:03:40 <_MMA_> Ubuntu does this.

2007-03-27T17:03:49 <AstralJava> luisbg: Absolutely.

2007-03-27T17:03:57 <_MMA_> Ubuntu Forums does as well.

2007-03-27T17:04:23 <luisbg> cool

2007-03-27T17:04:28 <luisbg> then it's decided

2007-03-27T17:04:39 <luisbg> I don't have anything else to bring up

2007-03-27T17:04:46 <luisbg> anybody has anything to comment?

2007-03-27T17:05:59 <AstralJava> Nope.

2007-03-27T17:06:34 <_MMA_> hmm...

2007-03-27T17:06:37 <_MMA_> I do.

2007-03-27T17:06:42 <luisbg> go ahead

2007-03-27T17:07:19 <_MMA_> I want to keep it important to this project that we have relationships with upstreams as much as we can.

2007-03-27T17:07:34 <_MMA_> This might even just be another maintainer.

2007-03-27T17:07:46 <_MMA_> Ie: Things we sync from Debian.

2007-03-27T17:07:58 <_MMA_> ie: GIMP

2007-03-27T17:08:15 <_MMA_> Also...

2007-03-27T17:08:16 <luisbg> oh yeah... forgot about that

2007-03-27T17:08:31 <TheMuso> Gimp is in main. Do you really want to worry about that?

2007-03-27T17:08:55 <AstralJava> I vote against it.

2007-03-27T17:09:09 <_MMA_> TheMuso: Not actively maintain, but push for updates/work on bugs when need be.

2007-03-27T17:09:18 <TheMuso> _MMA_: Ok.

2007-03-27T17:09:48 <_MMA_> Also...

2007-03-27T17:09:58 <_MMA_> We need to have a continued presence in motu.

2007-03-27T17:10:21 <_MMA_> ALL of our packagers should become MOTU.

2007-03-27T17:10:34 <luisbg> that's something I would love to happen

2007-03-27T17:10:35 <TheMuso> I am regularly there, so is tsmithe, joejaxx etc.

2007-03-27T17:10:49 <luisbg> TheMuso, me too but I don't say much

2007-03-27T17:11:13 <TheMuso> I would encourage all of you to become mor active in the MOTU community. The more help we can get, the better.

2007-03-27T17:11:14 <_MMA_> We need to do that by working on more than just our packages. Luis mentioned bugs. That helps everyone.

2007-03-27T17:11:33 <TheMuso> wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO <- Plenty to do from that page.

2007-03-27T17:11:55 <luisbg> our relationship with MOTU should be bilateral

2007-03-27T17:11:58 <_MMA_> Let me also mention that all of yo ushouls be on the -motu mailing lists.

2007-03-27T17:11:59 <luisbg> we help them, they help us

2007-03-27T17:12:11 <_MMA_> *you should

2007-03-27T17:12:21 * luisbg raises his hand (I'm in it)

2007-03-27T17:12:46 <_MMA_> This friday is "Hug-Day" (bug-day)

2007-03-27T17:13:11 <_MMA_> So if your looking for something to do then grab some bugs.

2007-03-27T17:13:30 <_MMA_> Luis touched on this a little.

2007-03-27T17:13:33 <_MMA_> Im done.

2007-03-27T17:13:41 <AstralJava> *phew*

2007-03-27T17:13:42 <AstralJava>

2007-03-27T17:14:05 * _MMA_ revokes Janne's webspace request.

2007-03-27T17:14:17 <luisbg> =)

2007-03-27T17:14:23 <_MMA_> err... approval.

2007-03-27T17:14:30 * AstralJava drowns in a pool of his tears

2007-03-27T17:14:39 <joejaxx> lol

2007-03-27T17:15:55 <luisbg> is the meeting closed then?

2007-03-27T17:16:04 <AstralJava> Looks that way.

2007-03-27T17:16:16 <_MMA_> Yep.

2007-03-27T17:16:28 <luisbg> t h e m e e t i n g i s c l o s e d