UbuntuTV Meetings Nov 30 2012.
#title #ubuntu-meeting Meeting
Meeting started by bobweaver at 18:03:22 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-11-30-18.03.log.html .
LINK: https://plus.google.com/b/104659991254860976283/+UbuntuTV/posts (tgm4883, 18:13:24) LINK: https://plus.google.com/+UbuntuTV (tgm4883, 18:14:31) LINK: http://imagebin.org/237706 (bobweaver, 18:19:11)
Meeting ended at 19:05:06 UTC.
People present (lines said)
- bobweaver (157)
- tgm4883 (70)
- jhodapp (27)
- bootidsa (21)
- meetingology (6)
- cm-t (1)
18:03:22 <bobweaver> #startmeeting
18:03:22 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
18:03:44 <bootidsa> Bettr give website for reference .. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntutv , i'll shutup now...
18:03:46 <bobweaver> IdleOne, plz help me with bot ! lol
18:04:05 <bobweaver> Agenda Documentation: The wiki is kinda old and refers to unity 2d a whole lot
18:04:24 <bobweaver> so I got a email asking me "how to help with docs "
18:04:29 <jhodapp> hello all
18:04:32 <bobweaver> I noticed alot of things
18:04:42 <bobweaver> all the Unity 2d stuff needs to come down
18:04:46 <bobweaver> agree ?
18:04:53 <tgm4883> yea
18:04:58 <tgm4883> I see no point in having it up there
18:05:04 <bobweaver> like the getting involed pages
18:05:18 <bobweaver> any nahs on this ?
18:05:26 <tgm4883> the getting involved pages should point out how to contact us to help
18:05:29 <bobweaver> hello jhodapp
18:05:32 <tgm4883> and also link to the demo stuff
18:05:44 <tgm4883> but definitely remove the "building ubuntu tv 2d stuff"
18:05:54 <bobweaver> so like add a link to the old stuff in the new page tgm4883 ?
18:06:12 <tgm4883> eh, no
18:06:19 <bobweaver> explain plz
18:06:26 <bootidsa> i vote to change the wiki to 3d as described .
18:06:27 <tgm4883> write a quick summary of how to demo the stuff via the PPA you made
18:06:41 <bobweaver> ok
18:06:42 <tgm4883> remove the "this is how you build it", until you can build it on unity 3d
18:06:55 <bobweaver> tgm4883, there is good news on that btw
18:07:12 <tgm4883> you can build it and all our work is finished?
18:07:25 <bobweaver> anyone else got anything to says about doc's ?
18:07:35 <CrestedNewt> I am happy to help out here
18:07:40 <bobweaver> lol tgm4883 never
18:07:57 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, that would be great would you see me after the meeting ?
18:07:57 <tgm4883> I need to write some docs on the mythtv integration
18:08:05 <CrestedNewt> will do
18:08:08 <tgm4883> but I need to finish converting everything first
18:08:10 <bobweaver> thanks CrestedNewt
18:08:25 <bobweaver> anyone else got anything to says about doc's ?
18:08:33 <bootidsa> no
18:08:49 <bobweaver> cool
18:09:02 <bobweaver> Agenda for docs is now done ! yeah
18:09:13 <bobweaver> Agenda: New Members Updates and Keeping people busy+happy
18:09:24 <bootidsa> I noted that Acer was mentioned on Target Platforms
18:09:28 <bobweaver> docs kinda help with this
18:09:53 <bobweaver> we *NEED* more Unity people esp nux people to help me
18:09:54 <bootidsa> Ican only help with Artwork, sorry.
18:09:55 <tgm4883> IIRC, there is no target platform other than x86/x86_64/ARM
18:10:24 <bobweaver> anyone know Unity 3d devs ?
18:10:38 <bootidsa> not well enough.
18:10:44 <jhodapp> bobweaver, yes
18:10:47 <bobweaver> can talk with them to put up with my bs ? get them to become new members ?
18:11:07 <bobweaver> cool jhodapp
18:11:21 <bobweaver> anyone else got ideas to bring in new members ?
18:11:31 <bobweaver> fbook g+ ect ?
18:11:37 <bootidsa> magazine ?
18:11:39 <bobweaver> spam the forums ?
18:11:46 <jhodapp> bobweaver, I think those are good methods, but having some cool defined tasks to do would help
18:11:52 <tgm4883> well besides social networking, I think we need to have a community type meeting
18:11:55 <CrestedNewt> don't spam - gets people backs up
18:12:02 <tgm4883> but I was going to bring that up during the meeting agenda item
18:12:22 <bobweaver> cool maybe we should come back to that ?
18:12:35 <tgm4883> sure
18:12:36 <bootidsa> Yes the google plus side of things is vacant .. and this where we could shine ..be happy to contribute .. whio does the group on G+ ?
18:12:48 <tgm4883> the ubuntu tv team
18:13:10 <bootidsa> What is 'there' profile link on G+ ?
18:13:24 <tgm4883> https://plus.google.com/b/104659991254860976283/+UbuntuTV/posts
18:13:26 <bobweaver> I have admin rights to g+ most the team does if they do not then contact mhall
18:13:34 <bootidsa> I>@E> who do I send links to to celebrate Ubuntu TV ?
18:13:34 <bobweaver> or mailing list
18:13:41 <tgm4883> bootidsa, I think there is a better link, I just don't recall it right now
18:13:47 <tgm4883> mhall119 knows
18:14:03 <bobweaver> bootidsa, yeah contact mhall119
18:14:14 <bobweaver> he is are community manager
18:14:18 <bootidsa> tgm4883, OK can you send it to email@example.com when you have a moment ?
18:14:31 <tgm4883> https://plus.google.com/+UbuntuTV
18:14:45 <tgm4883> that is the better link
18:15:10 <bobweaver> cool well lets think about new member's and come back to that unless you have something that you are dieing to say
18:15:32 <bootidsa> Ok I'l just +Ubuntu TV in myb posts .. but an email would be sufficient really.
18:15:53 <bootidsa> not at mo.
18:16:03 <bobweaver> Agenda: new members done ?
- 18:16:29 <bobweaver> Agenda: Unity 3d
- Advancements and hold backs
18:16:48 <bootidsa> pass. brb.
18:16:56 <bobweaver> ok so I have made a new standalone mode that one can now use and frame is def comming togeather
18:17:21 <CrestedNewt> good job!
18:17:23 <bobweaver> people can test and also give me feed back though it is no where near done
18:17:46 <CrestedNewt> I can test as an EU if that helps
18:17:47 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, if you like after the meeting we can talk and this is something thta I would like to see in docs
18:18:01 <CrestedNewt> sure
18:18:04 <bobweaver> let me take a pic real quick
18:18:26 <jhodapp> nice bobweaver
18:19:11 <bobweaver> http://imagebin.org/237706
18:19:33 <bobweaver> as you can see there is now a binary that builds when unity 3d builds and one can launch that
18:20:21 <bobweaver> some of the hold backs that I am having is that I am just learning nux and having some of the layering is hard for me but I am learning
18:20:28 <bobweaver> stupid widgets
18:20:46 <bobweaver> but it is now in are trunk and one can use this
18:21:07 <bobweaver> I have not finshed by any means but there is least a start
18:21:34 <bobweaver> if anyone has questions about it feel free to email me or ping me on are channel
18:22:15 <bobweaver> I have not finshed channel view nor coverflow yet but got the binary there and it is now something that one can test
18:22:29 <jhodapp> bobweaver, have you ever chatted with any of the Nux developers in #ubuntu-unity before?
18:22:43 <bobweaver> but if you know Unity 3d devs esp NUX peps please send my way
18:22:48 <bobweaver> jhodapp, I try
18:23:03 <bobweaver> gotten some help but not that many people know about NUX
18:23:29 <jhodapp> bobweaver, no, but certainly the people who know the most about it (because they created Nux) are in that room
18:24:04 <bobweaver> jhodapp, I want to see if I can get jason to help me but cn never find him I should send him a email
18:24:22 <jhodapp> bobweaver, yeah, that's a good idea
18:24:38 <bobweaver> I asked the whole channel yesterday and today if they would show up for this
18:24:46 <jhodapp> bobweaver, it sounds like that's one of the best things to spend your time on for right now is getting a solid communication line open with the people who can help you with Nux
18:24:49 <bobweaver> but IDK if anyof them did
18:25:12 <bobweaver> jhodapp, you should help me with that as you are can emply
18:25:28 <bobweaver> pretty plz that is
18:25:34 <jhodapp> bobweaver, I can certainly ping people for you when you can't get their attention
18:26:02 <bobweaver> thanks jhodapp not sure if they take me for real yet + I ask dumg questions sometimes
18:26:15 <bobweaver> at any rate I will put that UP on my list
18:26:39 <bobweaver> any one else got anything to say about Unity 3d or questions ?
18:26:49 <CrestedNewt> the only way of learning is by showing ones ignorance
18:26:50 <bobweaver> integration that is
18:26:56 <jhodapp> bobweaver, no such thing as a dumb question (the only dumb one is the one not asked)
18:27:17 <CrestedNewt> jhodapp - well said
18:27:22 <bobweaver> I would also like to say that it is on raring
18:27:36 <tgm4883> no questions from me, I'll probably have some for you once I get the backend stuff to converted so we can test it
18:27:50 <CrestedNewt> nothing from me
18:27:53 <bobweaver> I am on raring so we are moving in the right direction which brings up new topic
18:28:14 <bobweaver> Agenda: Time-Line Due to the limited time that some of us have
18:28:43 <bobweaver> you all I am srry grinding the midnight oil on this project and I love it but not sure that this is going to be done in 5 months
18:29:06 <tgm4883> I think feature wise, timeline is up to the people doing the Unity 3D work (bobweaver)
18:29:22 <bobweaver> we might have to push things back a little but IDWT
18:29:34 <tgm4883> bobweaver, and feature wise, you only have until March 7th
18:29:35 <bobweaver> good point tgm4883 that is why I need some help
18:29:50 <bobweaver> I mean unity 3d has like 20 peps always working on it
18:30:01 <bobweaver> I have to keep up with that and I also have to add thing's
18:30:34 <bobweaver> like I spend more time (in the start) fixing unity and not even working on code
18:31:02 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - what if you just sat on a LTS release as the basic libs, that do not change?
18:31:25 <CrestedNewt> then you are not always chasing your tail
18:31:28 <bobweaver> took me a day of re-writing cmakelist files to get to config but I have gotten some help with that and am past that hurdle
18:31:40 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, that is a real real real real real good point
18:31:44 <bobweaver> and idea
18:32:05 <bobweaver> I for one love that idea that we will try to release a full version on next lts
18:32:08 <tgm4883> I still think something is wrong with how this this happening if Unity builds keep breaking
18:32:15 <tgm4883> but maybe it's just me being a Python dev
18:32:19 <tgm4883> jhodapp, ^
18:32:31 <bobweaver> everything up to that will be Mockup stuff
18:32:51 <bobweaver> tgm4883, it is because *other* libs are always changing
18:32:51 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - but if Unity is always changing, there is no solid foundation
18:33:14 <jhodapp> tgm4883, what's the issue exactly, I don't quite follow
18:33:20 <CrestedNewt> without a solid foundation, bobweaver can't move forwards
18:33:39 <tgm4883> jhodapp, bascially, things in Unity keep changing and causing bobweaver to have to redo work
18:33:48 <bobweaver> kinda
18:34:09 <bobweaver> it was more that Unity would not build due to changes in libs
18:34:15 <bobweaver> but this has been fixed
18:34:29 <bobweaver> you know nux3 to nux 4
18:34:38 <bobweaver> libunity changing
18:34:39 <jhodapp> yes, that's a major change
18:35:12 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, meh, not necessarily true. Sure things in Unity are changing. But lets take it from my perspective (admittedly a Python one). I import another library in python and use one of it's functions. That library might change over time, but as long as it still returns values that I would expect (not changing from a list to a dict) then my code is fine
18:35:19 <jhodapp> there's 2 options there though...you can keep tracking the latest of all of these libs (which might be a good idea), or you can say we're targeting version x or each lib like unity and nux
18:35:21 <bobweaver> I mean every one of unityshell/plugins/* needed new cmakelist file because it would not work
18:35:33 <bobweaver> not work = not installing and linking libs
18:36:10 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - I'm not a coder but was a problem and change manager for alarge international oild company looking after systems for europe
18:36:37 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - but i also understand where you are coming from
18:37:08 <bobweaver> jhodapp, both good ideas and I am tracking all bugs and changes to both tunk and stagging but then I see that staging is now going to chang to something else and who knows whta changes are going to come with that or if them libs are eeven goinng to make it into main
18:37:52 <bobweaver> that is my concerns as I could only find libs in stagging to make this work due to nux 4
18:37:57 <bobweaver> and other libs
18:38:28 <bobweaver> and if stagging is changing to something else and what if compiz from stagging is not included into main then kahput
18:38:32 <jhodapp> bobweaver, you're talking about package staging, right?
18:38:40 <bobweaver> yeah the ppa
18:39:00 <bobweaver> sorry about that Unity stagging ppa is what I am talking about
18:39:13 <jhodapp> bobweaver, ok, popey might be able to give you insights into your uncertainty there
18:39:16 <tgm4883> jhodapp, bobweaver one of our previous discussions was a point in time when Unity wouldn't even build by itself (without bobweaver's additions)
18:39:27 <tgm4883> which seems bad IMO
18:39:40 <bobweaver> and was bad
18:39:41 <jhodapp> tgm4883, unity trunk wouldn't build?
18:39:43 <bobweaver> belive me
18:39:46 <tgm4883> jhodapp, yea
18:39:56 <tgm4883> so bobweaver says, I didn't try it
18:40:20 <bobweaver> would not build because main(ubuntu ppa) unity for raring is calling stuff from stagging . and it was a mess
18:40:32 <jhodapp> tgm4883, seems weird, a change usually won't get merged into trunk unless it passes the tests and the continuous integration build by QA
18:40:37 <bobweaver> like libs in main had not yet landed from stagging
18:40:46 <bobweaver> nux 4 compiz ect
18:41:25 <bobweaver> sence then I have changed the way that I am building this but once again I am not sure as to which one of the libs that Unity team is going to pick for there main
18:41:39 <bobweaver> but what hurt more was not just the libs
18:41:54 <tgm4883> I still think something is wrong here. From my point of view, the same issues would plague any Unity developer
18:42:05 <jhodapp> tgm4883, precisely
18:42:27 <bobweaver> it was the fact that cmakelist(s) needed to be re-wrote because they where erroroing out on config (cmake ../ -DCMAKE_INSTALL_.......)
18:43:14 <bobweaver> mainly plugins and makeing room for new binary for tv
18:43:20 <jhodapp> bobweaver, did you have anyone else try the same thing when it was failing just to confirm?
18:43:52 <bobweaver> you can look at change logs of branch to see what I had to do it is documented there
18:44:04 <bobweaver> jhodapp, yeah
18:44:06 <tgm4883> to continue progress in this meeting, I move to put this item on hold and continue. Either coming back to this at the end of the meeting (time permitted) or continue this discussion in the #ubuntu-tv channel
18:44:20 <bobweaver> unity team said "that si what where are fixing right now "
18:44:33 <bobweaver> good idea tgm4883
18:44:33 <jhodapp> bobweaver, ok
18:45:03 <bobweaver> New Agenda : Meetings Pick a day and time for recurring weekly meetings
18:45:26 <tgm4883> #subtopic Meetings Pick a day and time for recurring weekly meetings
18:45:29 <bobweaver> I like this time what do you all think about that ? is it good for you would sat be better ect
18:45:41 <tgm4883> I like this time
18:45:47 <bobweaver> jhodapp, ?
18:45:56 <bobweaver> CrestedNewt, ?
18:46:00 <CrestedNewt> I am flexible - some friday nights I'm out, some saturdays I'm out
18:46:05 <tgm4883> I don't like anything that gets into people's weekends
18:46:17 <bobweaver> that is a good point
18:46:19 <CrestedNewt> keep it to friday nights then?
18:46:31 <tgm4883> so mon - thurs might work better, but i'm in the US so it's friday morning for me
18:46:44 <CrestedNewt> I'm in the UK
18:46:51 <jhodapp> bobweaver, works for me
18:46:57 <bobweaver> lets wait for jhodapp and his input. I wish that we could also get will to show up he is AWESOME
18:47:01 <CrestedNewt> so I'm on GMT anyway
18:47:11 <bobweaver> well then settled ever fri at this time
18:47:17 <CrestedNewt> kk
18:47:20 <bobweaver> if alright with you all
18:47:28 <bobweaver> #vote
18:47:28 <meetingology> Please vote on:
18:47:28 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
18:47:33 <bobweaver> +1
18:47:34 <CrestedNewt> +1
18:47:46 <bootidsa> +1
18:47:55 <tgm4883> +1
18:48:09 <tgm4883> bobweaver, I think you need votesrequired as well
18:48:23 <bobweaver> er I dont know how to use this bot lol
18:48:29 <bobweaver> #endvote
18:48:29 <meetingology> No vote in progress
18:48:32 <bobweaver> lol
18:48:39 <tgm4883> next topic
18:48:50 <bobweaver> form-factor
18:48:50 <bobweaver> josephjamesmills would like to work on using different form factors but can not figure out on his own, maybe if Unity people show up
18:48:54 <tgm4883> or I forgot the thing I was going to bring up
18:49:11 <tgm4883> I'll come back to it
18:49:31 <tgm4883> This seems similar to the other Unity 3D items
18:49:42 <bobweaver> well that is pretty much covered in getting me some friends that will put up with my bs and teach me about form-factor
18:49:54 <bobweaver> unity 3d team
18:50:25 <bobweaver> I just need like 4 hours with a unity 3d dev to do a goolge hangout
18:50:52 <bobweaver> to teach me the stuff that I do not understand though I am RE unity 3d ok for the time being
18:51:26 <bobweaver> Next adgenda : from the wiki they are all covered . so if you got anything to add now would be the time
18:51:35 <tgm4883> community meetings
18:51:56 <tgm4883> I think the last meeting of the month should be a community meeting, where people could show up and ask any questions they have
18:51:57 <bobweaver> tgm4883, what do you mean ?
18:52:06 <tgm4883> hopefully this would get more people involved
18:52:12 <bobweaver> that is a great great great IDEA !!!!
18:52:26 <tgm4883> also, we wouldn't have to advertise every meeting every week every where, just the last meeting
18:52:30 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - that sounds like a great idea - but it needs to be focused
18:52:38 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, focused on what?
18:53:09 <bobweaver> tgm4883, on are channel or should we make a channel ? #ubuntu-tc-community-meetup or whatever
18:53:12 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - sometimes at these types of meetings some ppl try and take over for their point only
18:53:27 <bobweaver> we can regulate that CrestedNewt
18:53:29 <tgm4883> bobweaver, on this channel
18:53:35 <CrestedNewt> ok
18:53:35 <bobweaver> lol tgm4883
18:53:41 <tgm4883> bobweaver, it would just take the place of our normal meeting
18:53:50 <bobweaver> on this channel ?
18:54:02 <tgm4883> bobweaver, isn't that where our normal weekly meeting will be?
18:54:15 <bootidsa> you advertis it on Google Plus too !
18:54:29 <bobweaver> I will make youtube video
18:54:39 <bobweaver> and put on g+ about this ?
18:54:48 <bootidsa> yep.
18:54:48 <tgm4883> yea the idea would be for us to advertise it on all social media, website, etc
18:54:59 <bobweaver> tgm4883, that is a great idea
18:55:02 <tgm4883> and since it's once a month, we wouldn't be spamming everyone all the time
18:55:04 <bobweaver> so plush
18:56:34 <bootidsa> netsplit !
18:57:00 <bobweaver> I would like to set up a community found that is for getting us "team members" hardware
18:57:06 <bobweaver> how can we do that ?
18:57:28 <bobweaver> jhodapp, that is more question for you
18:57:32 <bobweaver> I think
18:57:32 <tgm4883> bobweaver, do we need that?
18:57:38 <bobweaver> I do
18:57:40 <tgm4883> what kinda hardware?
18:57:45 <tgm4883> kind of*
18:57:47 <bobweaver> armel boards
18:57:53 <tgm4883> ah
18:57:55 <bootidsa> I have a spare Revo .. ?
18:58:13 <jhodapp> bobweaver, it's a good question, but I'm with tgm4883...what's wrong with using your PC?
18:58:15 <bobweaver> even if was remote at canonical office
18:58:28 <tgm4883> jhodapp I think it's for ARM stuff
18:58:37 <tgm4883> which I don't think he can test on a normal PC
18:58:43 <bobweaver> jhodapp, I was thinking that this most likly would be on arm and I can not afford anything
18:58:48 <jhodapp> tgm4883, yes, but why do you need to run on ARM today?
18:58:49 <bobweaver> I am super super super poor
18:58:52 <tgm4883> specifically with how usable it is on ARM
18:58:54 <CrestedNewt> I can try and talk to ARM as their head office is only about 45 mins away from me
18:59:09 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I don't think ARM makes any hardware?
18:59:19 <bobweaver> not today but raising money for devs can take time
18:59:21 <jhodapp> tgm4883, they make reference boards
18:59:39 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - no they don't but they have influence as the manufacturers basically build under license
18:59:53 <tgm4883> IMO, it needs to be off the shelf hardware
18:59:55 <CrestedNewt> of their tech
19:00:09 <bobweaver> listen I do not even want a board shiped to house I am just going to need stuff to test code on and run valgrind
19:00:30 <CrestedNewt> I'm with tgm4883 - lets get it out as a STB first - make other big brands sit up and take notice
19:00:30 <bobweaver> I can chroot and make virtual but that is not a real test
19:00:33 <tgm4883> bobweaver, jhodapp perhaps it's something that the canoncal testing lab can do
19:00:46 <bobweaver> I want to make sure that my code runs on arm and is not leaky
19:00:48 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, I completely disagree with that, and that isn't our target anyway
19:01:01 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - ok
19:01:17 <jhodapp> but to bobweaver's point, considering how to get hardware today isn't a bad idea
19:01:22 <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, it's much easier to work with something open, rather than hack a tivo to run it on
19:01:28 <jhodapp> maybe we can ask for some community donations
19:01:42 <bobweaver> Like at next UDS if we could have boards to test valfrind reports
19:01:45 <bootidsa> kickstarter !
19:02:06 <CrestedNewt> tgm4883 - agreed - I'm looking at mounting on the back of a screen with HW readily available
19:02:11 <bobweaver> IDK all I know is that I can not afford to by any because I have to feed my dog
19:02:12 <bobweaver> that is how poor I am
19:02:40 <jhodapp> bobweaver, nobody is asking you to buy one, use your PC for now
19:02:50 <bobweaver> bottom line is this. there is no why what so ever that I can afford anything like this and if it is going to go to skunkworks then what ?
19:03:08 <bobweaver> It was just a idea
19:03:48 <bootidsa> here's my G+ if anyone wants to hangout or follow me https://plus.google.com/103093000923989045518
19:03:55 <bobweaver> ok any dire things to cover ?
19:04:03 <tgm4883> nope
19:04:04 <cm-t> thanks bootidsa && hi *
19:04:24 <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - I'm with tgm4883 that it should only be off the shelf stuff. At the end of the day, if Ubuntu will run on it, Ubuntu-TV should also run on it
19:04:42 <bobweaver> +1
19:04:46 <tgm4883> +1
19:04:58 <bobweaver> lets take this to are channel
19:05:03 <bobweaver> #end meeting
19:05:05 <tgm4883> our*
19:05:06 <bobweaver> #endmeeting