2011-07-25 Meeting Minutes

The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

Old Business

Team updates

Packaging & Development

Bug Triage & Testing

Website & Marketing

Artwork

Documentation

Announcements

Any Other Business

Action items

Xubuntu Governance



2011-07-25 Meeting Log

The full logs can found in original form at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/25/%23xubuntu-devel.txt

People present (lines said)

Full Log

[19:00] <charlie-tca> #startmeeting

[19:00] <charlie-tca> great! lost the meeting bot already

[19:00] <charlie-tca> Welcome to the Xubuntu Community Meeting

[19:01] <charlie-tca> We keep the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

[19:01] <knome> woot Smile :)

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Old business

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Team updates

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Packaging & Development

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Bug Triage & Testing

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Website & Marketing

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Artwork

[19:01] <charlie-tca> * Documentation

[19:02] <charlie-tca> * Announcements

[19:02] <charlie-tca> * Governance structure

[19:02] <charlie-tca> * Any Other Business

[19:02] <charlie-tca> Reminder: please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing. If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.

[19:02] <charlie-tca> We do allow anyone to speak up, that wants to.

[19:02] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old Business

[19:02] <charlie-tca> micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras

[19:02] <charlie-tca> micahg: any status?

[19:02] <micahg> charlie-tca: sent an e-mail, waiting on response

[19:02] <charlie-tca> Thank you

[19:03] <charlie-tca> start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc

[19:03] <charlie-tca> ochosi: did we get any thing on the review?

[19:04] <charlie-tca> === Team updates ===

[19:04] <ochosi> sry, was busy with other stuff, afaik the discussion/review hasn't really started

[19:04] <charlie-tca> feature freeze is approaching fast

[19:05] <charlie-tca> we need to do something if we are going to, right?

[19:05] <knome> when is FF?

[19:05] <micahg> Aug 11

[19:05] <knome> plenty of time to do the discussion

[19:05] <ochosi> micahg: maybe we can update gmusicbrowser?

[19:05] <micahg> ochosi: is there a new version?

[19:05] <ochosi> (or at least set a deadline for it)

[19:06] <ochosi> there are quite a few bugfixes, no new release in the strict sense

[19:06] <charlie-tca> I would say if 4 weeks hasn't been enough time to get it started, three weeks is cutting things short

[19:06] <micahg> ochosi: is he planning a release any time soon?

[19:06] <knome> ochosi, want to start the discussion on the ML today? i can give my comments right away

[19:06] <ochosi> micahg: not sure, he's not planning releases, strictly speaking

[19:07] <charlie-tca> knome: Why not send the email to get it started?

[19:07] <ochosi> micahg: i think he's still trying to improve it to finally release 1.2

[19:07] <ochosi> charlie-tca: good idea

[19:07] <knome> charlie-tca, i'm planning to do other things today, eg. more banners

[19:07] <ochosi> awwh Smile :)

[19:07] <ochosi> micahg: but i guess i can talk to him to do a 1.1.8 release

[19:08] <micahg> ochosi: personally, I prefer releases to snapshots, but if there are sufficient fixes, I can find out how to make a tarball from th repo

[19:09] <ochosi> micahg: actually github has a tarball-feature, so you can simply take it from there

[19:10] <charlie-tca> Can we continue?

[19:10] <charlie-tca> silence is not golden...

[19:10] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Team updates ===

[19:11] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Packaging & Development ====

[19:11] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit or micahg ?

[19:11] <mr_pouit> as you prefer :p

[19:11] <charlie-tca> Go ahead, sir

[19:11] <mr_pouit> ok

[19:12] <mr_pouit> nothing much new again, uploaded a new xubuntu-default-settings to make some cleaning of gdm/natty specific hacks, and merged the new xfce4-indicator-plugin with transparency support

[19:12] <mr_pouit> micahg wanted to investigate why evince is still on the daily builds, but I don't remember the result Wink ;)

[19:13] <micahg> it's due to gnumeric

[19:13] <micahg> so, gnumeric can use epdfview, but the preview files aren't cleaned when you close epdfview, not sure if that's a deal breaker or not

[19:14] <charlie-tca> What does that mean? Do you have to manually close the previews then?

[19:14] <astraljava> They're stored in /tmp, right?

[19:14] <micahg> yep, they're in /tmp

[19:14] <charlie-tca> Doesn't /tmp get cleaned on a restart?

[19:15] <astraljava> Shouldn't be a problem, most people reboot often, right?

[19:15] <micahg> it's a potential privacy issue on a running machine

[19:15] <astraljava> True.

[19:15] <charlie-tca> even if they don't, does /tmp keep it forever?

[19:15] <micahg> charlie-tca: w/out a reboot, yes

[19:15] <charlie-tca> Other things also get stored there, right?

[19:16] <micahg> yeah

[19:16] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: opinion?

[19:16] <micahg> I'm not comfortable asking for an alternate depends on epdfview w/out this being fixed

[19:17] <mr_pouit> yeah

[19:17] <astraljava> But wait, isn't most privileges in /tmp 600?

[19:17] <charlie-tca> Then we keep evince?

[19:17] <astraljava> s/isn't/aren't

[19:17] <micahg> astraljava: hmm, right, true, it is 600 on those files, so maybe not an issue

[19:18] <astraljava> ..

[19:18] <charlie-tca> If you are printing a private file, do you expect to not have traces left on the drive?

[19:19] <micahg> that's true, flash drive files would be impacted

[19:19] <charlie-tca> I don't think I understand what is wrong with a copy left in /tmp vs a copy you stored on the drive before print preview was invoked?

[19:19] <micahg> so, I guess we either get this fixed so that epdfview acts like evince in this scenario or go back to evince

[19:19] <micahg> charlie-tca: the file might not be on the system at all

[19:20] <charlie-tca> okay, let's revert to evince again, then.

[19:20] <ochosi> sorry to bother, but why were we going for epdf again?

[19:20] <micahg> ochosi: 2-3MB CD space

[19:20] <micahg> we're 30MB oversized ATM

[19:20] <charlie-tca> did we remove pinyin yet?

[19:21] <beardygnome> can't we just drop somrthing to get the space back?

[19:21] <charlie-tca> Not that simple

[19:21] <knome> like gimp?

[19:21] <astraljava> beardygnome: I think that's what the discussion is all about. Smile :)

[19:21] * knome hides

[19:22] <beardygnome> knome: that's where i was headed Smile :-)

[19:22] <knome> people, PLEASE start the app comparison wiki page.

[19:22] <charlie-tca> If ubuntu adds things, we get oversized, If they remove them, they don't always get removed from the Xubuntu image

[19:22] <astraljava> Wait, Xubuntu actually ships gimp by default?

[19:22] <charlie-tca> yes, astraljava

[19:22] <knome> don't waste time on loads of irrelevant emails

[19:22] <charlie-tca> We never had the space issue Ubuntu did

[19:22] <micahg> mr_pouit: should we revert to ibus-pinyin from ibus-sunpinyin like UBuntu did?

[19:23] <knome> iirc, we've had the space issue for a few releases already

[19:23] <mr_pouit> micahg: I've absolutely no idea. I usually try to follow what ubuntu doesn on these matters Wink ;-)

[19:23] <mr_pouit> *does

[19:23] <micahg> well, they have a custom CD with ibus-sunpinyin for China I think

[19:24] <mr_pouit> (there are several transitions in progress apparently, since we have two versions of libwebkit aboard)

[19:25] <micahg> we're stuck with them I think, the GTK3 version is used in yelp

[19:25] <micahg> Ubuntu has the same issue

[19:26] <astraljava> Fortunately this isn't an LTS release. Smile :)

[19:26] <charlie-tca> How come alternate 64 is 30MB lighter then the other images?

[19:26] <micahg> I think the two transitions we're impacted by ATM are the SSL 1.0.0 and libnotify ones, libnotify will be done once transmission gets its build-deps MIRd and builds, libssl I haven't started on yet

[19:27] <astraljava> charlie-tca: Only 13, and the same with both archs, isn't it?

[19:27] <charlie-tca> no

[19:28] <charlie-tca> alternate 64 is only 702MB,

[19:28] <astraljava> Sorry, my bad.

[19:28] <charlie-tca> alternate i386 is 715MB, and the desktop images are both over 730MB

[19:28] <micahg> not sure, we have some amd64 archive failures in main, could be those updates changed build-deps, idk offhand

[19:28] <micahg> s/archive/build/

[19:29] <charlie-tca> All debian installer images are causing kernel panics today, but they had been working

[19:30] <charlie-tca> anything else on development and packaging?

[19:31] <charlie-tca> summary: keep evince, find out why cd's are oversize

[19:31] <micahg> I think so at this point

[19:32] <charlie-tca> and merged the new xfce4-indicator-plugin with transparency support

[19:32] <charlie-tca> which is a big one, right?

[19:32] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Bug Triage & Testing ====

[19:33] <charlie-tca> We still don't have live sessions, even though the new x11-common is out

[19:33] <charlie-tca> what else do we need to push to get things moving for us?

[19:34] <charlie-tca> Testing is being done as often as we can, with the results at http://2tu.us/3dmh

[19:34] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any bugs I can push people with to get the live session working now/

[19:34] <charlie-tca> ?

[19:35] <mr_pouit> nope, it's still waiting on some support from gdm/lightdm

[19:35] <charlie-tca> bugs in Oneiric are being tracked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot , Please update it when you report a new bug

[19:35] <mr_pouit> (and they are aware of the issues)

[19:35] <charlie-tca> Do I need to push people, or will it happen before alpha3 next week?

[19:36] <mr_pouit> sorry, I don't know when this'll happen Sad :(

[19:36] <charlie-tca> Any questions on bugs and testing?

[19:37] <micahg> might be something to bring up in the Desktop meeting AU edition

[19:37] <charlie-tca> I keep bringing it up in the release meeting, I don't know the dekstop meeting?

[19:37] <charlie-tca> Do you attend it?

[19:38] <micahg> I'm around for it sometimes (won't be tomorrow)

[19:38] <charlie-tca> They do show the d-i bug 815962 fixed now

[19:38] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 815962 in udev (Ubuntu) "oneiric d-i based images kernel panic on boot" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/815962

[19:38] <charlie-tca> Maybe we will have working images tomorrow

[19:39] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Website & Marketing ====

[19:40] <charlie-tca> Many thanks to beardygnome for his great website review!

[19:40] <beardygnome> np

[19:40] <beardygnome> glad to be of service Smile :-)

[19:40] <charlie-tca> As many times as I read it, I never realized how many times we referred to Ubuntu instead of Xubuntu

[19:41] <knome> i thought that was deliberate thing on some of the spots

[19:41] <knome> but i might remember wrong

[19:41] <charlie-tca> knome: any update on the website?

[19:41] <knome> on w&m: http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_banners/microbutton_80x15.png was created today, and more is to come

[19:41] <knome> i'm hoping to get back on working on the actual website this month

[19:41] <beardygnome> knome: it is in some places, i only mentioned the ones that i thought weren't deliberate

[19:41] <knome> beardygnome, okay, right Smile :)

[19:42] <charlie-tca> I owe knome an apology for this morning. I looked at the banner just referenced, and it was blurred. He has since pointed out my eyes are very blurred again

[19:42] <charlie-tca> seems my vision is not good at this time

[19:43] <charlie-tca> ..

[19:44] <knome> charlie-tca, no problem

[19:44] * charlie-tca hates not seeing good

[19:45] <charlie-tca> anything else, knome ?

[19:45] <knome> mmh... not at the moment, i think

[19:45] <charlie-tca> Thank you for the update. It would be good to get the website moving again.

[19:45] <knome> yes, definitely

[19:45] <charlie-tca> Any questions for website?

[19:46] <knome> to get the blog set up!

[19:46] <charlie-tca> please

[19:46] <knome> Smile :)

[19:46] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] ==== Artwork ====

[19:46] <charlie-tca> ochosi: You get a turn, too

[19:46] * knome rolls ochosi like a dice

[19:46] <knome> is it a six? is it?

[19:47] <ochosi> i'll keep that a secret, knome Wink ;)

[19:47] <knome> hehe

[19:47] <charlie-tca> Smile :)

[19:47] <ochosi> ok, not many news, i added a metacity theme to bluebird

[19:47] <ochosi> so basically the two themes we added since i started to contribute actively now work with compiz/metacity

[19:48] <ochosi> apart from that i tested gtk3 again in my oneiric install

[19:48] <ochosi> but everything is still moving too much in gtk3 and unico to really get down to coding the gtk3 theme

[19:49] <ochosi> if someone feels like doing a theme for lightdm, please step forward Smile :)

[19:49] <knome> (albatross is underway of having a facelift!)

[19:50] <ochosi> that's about it from my side Smile :)

[19:50] <charlie-tca> I don't know about a theme, but it is fairly easy to add the wallpaper from greybird to lightdm

[19:50] <ochosi> it's css, so maybe we can use parts of the gtk3 theme when it's ready

[19:50] <charlie-tca> Thank you, ochosi

[19:50] <ochosi> not sure though

[19:50] <ochosi> np

[19:50] <charlie-tca> That would be great!

[19:50] <charlie-tca> any questions for artwork?

[19:51] <charlie-tca> Anyone that wants to work on the theme for lightdm for Xubuntu?

[19:51] <mr_pouit> (a plymouth theme is also needed Smile :)

[19:51] <charlie-tca> yeah, that's a lot harder

[19:51] <ochosi> mr_pouit: seriously?

[19:51] <ochosi> oh, you mean if we don't want to keep the current one Smile :)

[19:51] <charlie-tca> We been needing one for a while now

[19:52] <ochosi> does anyone here have experience with that?

[19:52] <mr_pouit> \o

[19:52] <mr_pouit> /o\

[19:52] * astraljava is not an artist by a long stretch

[19:52] <charlie-tca> I would love to see the current wallpaper as a plymouth background too Smile :)

[19:52] <knome> charlie-tca, you don't want a new wallpaper for oneiric? :P

[19:53] <ochosi> hehe

[19:53] <mr_pouit> ochosi: my experience: take the ubuntu-logo plymouth script, change some random colors and the logo, and poof, here's xubuntu-logo plymouth theme

[19:53] <mr_pouit> but that's not very great

[19:53] <charlie-tca> If we have a good one come into view, we might grab it

[19:53] <knome> mr_pouit, that's greater than alexander the great!

[19:53] <ochosi> mr_pouit: how does that work? could we add animations? if yes, how?

[19:53] <charlie-tca> but wouldn't it be great to see the current wallpaper a plymouth theme?

[19:54] <knome> charlie-tca, we'll create something with ochosi, that's for sure. if not for oneiric, for the new greybird release then

[19:54] <mr_pouit> ochosi: you can do that if you know the scripting language used

[19:54] <charlie-tca> We could splash XUBUNTU across it even, it white or yellow

[19:54] <knome> charlie-tca, the current, or maybe the forthcoming

[19:54] <ochosi> mr_pouit: pfff. not sure i want to learn something so useful outside of plymouth

[19:54] <knome> well definitely not yellow, that would remind me of sweden too much

[19:54] <mr_pouit> but anyway, I'll have to update our plymouth script for oneiric, because the natty one doesn't display fsck progress

[19:54] <knome> mr_pouit, what's the script language there?

[19:54] <charlie-tca> that's right.

[19:55] <mr_pouit> knome: plymouth specific apparently =]

[19:55] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will go looking at plymouth, if I can figure out how to

[19:55] <knome> mr_pouit, awwh, resembles... ?

[19:56] <madnick> It looks like C

[19:56] <knome> somebody good with C?

[19:56] <knome> madnick maybe? Smile :)

[19:56] <charlie-tca> I don't know any of those, so I should be good to go, huh?

[19:56] <madnick> Not good with animations however Smile :)

[19:56] <knome> well, we can get artists helping you

[19:57] <knome> (ochosi)

[19:57] * knome hides

[19:57] <madnick> I could look into stuff

[19:57] <knome> great!

[19:57] <charlie-tca> |o/

[19:57] <knome> madnick, seriously, ping me or ochosi when/if you need help with the artistic part

[19:57] <madnick> okay

[19:57] <charlie-tca> [ACTION] madnick to look into plymouth theme, with help from knome and ochosi for animations

[19:57] <charlie-tca> Thank you, madnick

[19:58] <madnick> Smile :)

[19:58] <knome> i don't think we need any fancy animations really, right?

[19:58] <charlie-tca> right

[19:58] <knome> just something to indicate progress

[19:58] <ochosi> oh yes, i want a spinning wheel and a diamond and a unicorn that rides into the sunset!

[19:58] <knome> ochosi, still?

[19:58] <charlie-tca> See, and the wallpaper has the sunset!

[19:59] <ochosi> haha

[19:59] <knome> please remember mouse is our mascot, so the unicorn must be riding a mouse, or the other way around!!

[19:59] <ochosi> Smile :)

[19:59] <charlie-tca> and not on the horn, either Wink ;)

[19:59] <knome> haha

[20:00] * ochosi jots everything down for the next xubuntu wallpaper draft

[20:00] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Announcements ===

[20:00] <knome> ochosi, gosh! Wink ;)

[20:00] <charlie-tca> let's get through this

[20:00] <charlie-tca> * The next meeting will be on Sunday, 2011-07-31 at 22:00 UTC

[20:00] <charlie-tca> * Important dates coming up:

[20:01] <charlie-tca> * 11.10 Alpha 3: August 4, 2011

[20:01] <charlie-tca> * 11.10 FeatureFreeze : August 11, 2011

[20:01] <charlie-tca> * 11.10 Release Date: October 13, 2011

[20:01] <charlie-tca> * UDS-P will be in Orlando, Florida the week of October 31 - Nov 4. Please apply for sponsorship by August 24.

[20:01] <charlie-tca> * UDS-P information at http://ubuntu-news.org/2011/07/15/ubuntu-developer-summit-sponsorship-now-open-2/

[20:01] <charlie-tca> anything else?

[20:01] <knome> yeah

[20:01] <knome> please start the image editor app comparison wiki page

[20:02] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] === Any Other Business ===

[20:02] <knome> even if we didn't change anything for oneiric, it will be useful at later time

[20:02] <charlie-tca> image editor comparison should be started on the wiki

[20:02] <knome> yes

[20:02] <knome> i sent mail to the ML

[20:02] <knome> stating the correct pagename and template name

[20:02] <knome> to somebody to pick up

[20:03] <knome> (it's a relatively low-hanging fruit, since others will help!)

[20:03] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications

[20:03] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Oneiric/DefaultImageEditor

[20:03] <charlie-tca> I don't think we are going to drop gimp, but you never know, huh?

[20:03] <knome> (not yet created)

[20:03] <knome> i'm all for dropping it, if we find an easy to use, stable enough image editor

[20:04] <knome> it is true that most of the normal users don't need the majority of gimp features

[20:04] <knome> and i suppose gimp takes quite a lot of space

[20:04] <charlie-tca> like I am not normal?

[20:05] <charlie-tca> I would prefer to see software center dropped, personally

[20:05] <knome> i don't know, but many people use gimp for resizing, flipping and cropping images, and gimp is a bit slow for that

[20:05] <charlie-tca> but, yes, gimp is a huge space taker

[20:05] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: in favour of what?

[20:05] <knome> it is easy enough to install gimp anyway (sudo apt-get install gimp!)

[20:05] <charlie-tca> You can use Synaptic Package Manager

[20:05] <knome> i prefer synaptic as well, if one needs a GUI

[20:05] <charlie-tca> or even apt-get install ...

[20:06] <beardygnome> true, (i do myself) but i think software center is wasier for new users

[20:06] <knome> but i think the SC is easier for new users

[20:06] <beardygnome> the general public is becoming quite used to "app stores"

[20:06] <knome> charlie-tca, doesn't apt-get install need sudo?

[20:06] <charlie-tca> I still believe new users belong in Ubuntu instead.

[20:06] <pleia2> yeah, new people really love the software center, in my experience

[20:06] * beardygnome hopes apple don't sue him

[20:06] <charlie-tca> everything needs sudo, doesn't it?

[20:07] <knome> the SC is not too large/bloaty/irrelevant anyway?

[20:07] <charlie-tca> Does the "app store" part work for Xubuntu?

[20:07] <knome> charlie-tca, nvm, thought you commented on sth else Smile :)

[20:08] <micahg> charlie-tca: shouldn't it?

[20:08] <charlie-tca> I open it every 6 months to test it, for the final candidate image tests

[20:08] <charlie-tca> um, ubuntuone doesn't work for Xubuntu, the buy music parts don't work for Xubuntu, I haven't tested the buy apps now parts to see if they work outside of Ubuntu

[20:09] <micahg> charlie-tca: if they don't that should be a bug

[20:09] <charlie-tca> Software Center is finely tuned to Ubuntu

[20:09] <knome> micahg, agreed!

[20:09] <micahg> the packages should have appropriate dependencies

[20:09] <knome> shouldn't be too hard to hide those

[20:10] <charlie-tca> like the bug for ubuntuone? filed a long time back, with the comment: "as soon as Xubuntu writes the interface" ?

[20:10] <charlie-tca> but I regress

[20:10] <knome> charlie-tca, link?

[20:10] <charlie-tca> Any other business?

[20:10] <micahg> charlie-tca: why can't we use the UBuntu UbuntuOne client?

[20:10] <charlie-tca> no, I don't have it. I quit following the bugs for ubuntuone

[20:10] <charlie-tca> micahg: because it doesn't work?

[20:10] <knome> okay

[20:11] * micahg isn't sure what that means

[20:11] <GridCube> good evening

[20:11] <knome> hey GridCube

[20:11] <charlie-tca> which became very obvious when I cancelled my payments for ubuntuone and switched to Dropbox

[20:11] <beardygnome> micahg: i think it requires nautilus

[20:11] <charlie-tca> micahg: it doesn't work with thunar.

[20:12] <micahg> ah, that part doesn't work

[20:12] <charlie-tca> and when you add nautilus to xubuntu, it really gets messy

[20:12] <knome> yeah.. way too messy

[20:12] <knome> and bloaty

[20:12] <knome> Smile :)

[20:12] <beardygnome> micahg: it doesn't work with kubuntu either, iirc

[20:12] <charlie-tca> That is the whole part of ubuntuone worth having. If all you get is a web interface, there is no advantage to saying you have it

[20:12] <charlie-tca> Kubuntu now has an interface, though

[20:13] * charlie-tca thinks "so does windows"

[20:13] <beardygnome> oh well, i'm happy with dropbox for now

[20:13] <beardygnome> at least that works with thunar

[20:13] <charlie-tca> yup

[20:13] <knome> sshfs works with thunar Wink ;)

[20:13] * beardygnome thinks ubuntuone has a windows interface too

[20:14] <charlie-tca> but experience doesn't really give me a reason to think most of Software Center works with Xubuntu, either

[20:14] * knome thinks the BROWN color was appropriate for ubuntu

[20:14] <beardygnome> knome: and now smb does too Smile :-)

[20:14] <knome> beardygnome, afaik smbfs always worked Wink ;)

[20:14] <charlie-tca> Okay, anything we really need to bring up?

[20:14] <charlie-tca> I want to end this meeting

[20:14] <knome> and (curl)ftpfs!

[20:15] <knome> charlie-tca, go ahead

[20:15] <charlie-tca> Thank you all for participating. It is great to see people interested in keeping Xubuntu strong!

[20:15] <charlie-tca> #endmeeting

Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-07-25 (last edited 2011-07-31 14:21:09 by 71-209-55-154)