Meetings are held every 3rd Monday of each month, 19h30 UTC+2 in #ubuntu-za on irc.freenode.net and are pretty informal. Anyone is free to join in and give comments and suggestions, its even encouraged. Please introduce yourself to the bot at the start of the meeting so he can take note of all members present as follows:
Maaz: I am NAME SURNAME
Review minutes of previous meeting (meeting chair)
- What plans do we have for 2011, especially since we have a banner and a table cloth
UCT LEG stand got >100 sign-ups, mostly beginners. How about Stellies? Can we do anything for these beginners that's more technical than a release party?
UbuntuDeveloperWeek next week.
Global Jam 1-4 April (http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/global/567/detail/)
- Natty release party. Cape Town this time? More public venue?
- Ben's hacking contest. Ubuntu ZA involvement at all?
- Loco-Contact replacement (drubin)
Agenda item 2 (TopicLeader)
- More details (optional)
Minutes ======= [17:36:01] STARTED (drubin) [17:50:36] TOPIC: Loco-Contact replacement (drubin) [18:13:37] AGREED: drubin will post to the ML about self nominations (drubin) [18:15:40] AGREED: Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out (drubin) [18:18:00] ENDED (drubin) Present ======= * |3o|3 * Maia Grotepass (maiatoday) * David Rubin (drubin) * Kerbero * Dewald Noeth (Queery) * Michael Gorven (cocooncrash) * Wesley Werner (kbmonkey) * Arthur Rilke (arthurrilke) * Hendrik van Wyk (Tonberry) * Raoul Snyman (superfly) * Gareth Cawood (Banlam) * Stefano Rivera (tumbleweed) * pascal` * Neil Oosthuizen (nlsthzn)
[17:36:01] <drubin> Maaz: Start meeting [17:36:01] * Maaz gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles [17:36:18] <tumbleweed> Maaz: I am Stefano Rivera [17:36:18] <Maaz> tumbleweed: Done [17:36:20] <superfly> Maaz: I am Raoul Snyman [17:36:20] <Maaz> superfly: Sure [17:36:23] <maiatoday> Maaz: I am Maia Grotepass [17:36:23] <Maaz> maiatoday: Done [17:36:23] <drubin> Hi guys agenda for this meeting https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20110221 [17:36:27] <drubin> Maaz: I am David Rubin [17:36:27] <Maaz> drubin: Sure [17:36:34] <nlsthzn> Maaz: I am Neil Oosthuizen [17:36:34] <Maaz> nlsthzn: Sure [17:36:36] <kbmonkey> Maaz: I am Wesley Werner [17:36:36] <Maaz> kbmonkey: Okay [17:36:38] <Queery> maaz: i am Dewald Noeth [17:36:38] <Maaz> Queery: Yessir [17:36:44] <arthurrilke> maaz: i am Arthur Rilke [17:36:44] <Maaz> arthurrilke: Done [17:36:45] <drubin> So any one that feels like telling us who they are is free to tell the bot just like we did [17:37:00] <Tonberry> Maaz: i am Hendrik van Wyk [17:37:00] <Maaz> Tonberry: Righto [17:37:01] <Banlam> maazL I am Gareth Cawood [17:37:05] <Banlam> fail [17:37:09] <Banlam> maaz: I am Gareth Cawood [17:37:09] <Maaz> Banlam: Done [17:37:30] <drubin> So basically welcome to any one that hasn't attended an online IRC meeting before [17:37:39] <cocooncrash> Maaz: I am Michael Gorven [17:37:39] <Maaz> cocooncrash: Okay [17:37:49] <kbmonkey> (For those using XChat, you can use the TAB key to auto-complete names :)) [17:38:03] <drubin> we seem to have lots of new people and some rather old people lurking around so welcome! To the first meeting of the year [17:38:24] <Queery> thanx drubin [17:38:29] <drubin> Sorry we have been kinda slack about events/meetup/meetings but December is kinda dead time for most people [17:38:45] <drubin> marcog: are you around for your agenda points? [17:39:24] <Queery> he seems to be away [17:39:31] <drubin> either way moving onto point 1: Review previous minutes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/Meetings/20101213 [17:40:14] * nlsthzn sees his name on the minutes and is happy :) [17:40:24] <drubin> maiatoday: Do you remember if you mailed the list about open office? [17:40:43] <maiatoday> no I didn't [17:40:47] <maiatoday> I remember, I didn't [17:41:28] <drubin> Ok it would be nice to do something like that soon since schools are actually struggling with the whole MS not renewing their licenses thing [17:41:48] <drubin> Maybe it would be cool if we could find some one on the OO/Libre office team to help us write something up? [17:41:52] <maiatoday> ok let me take that action point again [17:41:53] * nlsthzn wonders, openoffice or libre office? [17:42:17] <tumbleweed> so, I went to a meeting with the western cape school IT support people last month [17:42:29] <tumbleweed> they're all pretty afraid of OSS [17:42:30] <drubin> tumbleweed: tell us more [17:42:57] * tumbleweed was there with my supervisor, and we were doing a talk on OSS [17:43:02] <Tonberry> does their curriculum not require the use of ms office? [17:43:18] <drubin> Tonberry: yes but that can be changed.... (theoretically) [17:43:25] <tumbleweed> his message was "be careful, OSS doesn't guarantee lower TCO" but also that he supports it and uses it [17:43:48] <tumbleweed> there were all sorts of concerns and questions, but basically, I don't see much changing [17:43:53] <drubin> since MS is no longer free and the goverment requires that they explore FLOSS they can't make it MS specific any more [17:44:03] <Tonberry> oh [17:44:03] <tumbleweed> there aren't enough staff, and they loose the good people... [17:44:05] <Tonberry> cool [17:44:28] <Queery> i like that [17:44:33] <drubin> Tonberry: the problem isn't the technical exams.. it is training the teachers to be able to teach FOSS stuff [17:44:43] <drubin> training + supporting it [17:44:45] <tumbleweed> drubin: yes, but there's obviously significant motivation to stay with the status quo here [17:44:50] <Tonberry> ok [17:45:09] <nlsthzn> ppl fear change :/ [17:45:13] <drubin> tumbleweed: true, doesn't mean we shouldn't try [17:45:17] <Tonberry> but it would mean that all the schools have to change and not just some of them? [17:45:37] <drubin> Tonberry: Most of the stuff can be done in OO provided they alter the wording/marking sheet SLIGHTLY [17:45:39] <tumbleweed> quite simply, switching major packages would require re-training, which iwon't be cheap [17:45:41] <kbmonkey> I propose we investigate current LO issues first, I heard there were a couple major stability issues [17:46:15] <tumbleweed> but yes, nothing will happen unless someone pushes them [17:46:22] <drubin> kbmonkey: stability isn't their major concern as tumbly pointed out it is the proccess/traning/money [17:46:35] <Tonberry> code can be fixed [17:46:38] <tumbleweed> and the concern that "this isn't whaht th industry uses" [17:46:44] [17:47:02] <kbmonkey> so getting them to adopt OSS is the hurdle [17:47:03] <nlsthzn> any plan for change will have to be long term [17:47:14] <Banlam> are schools really concerned about what the industry uses? [17:47:16] <drubin> tumbleweed: I guess that is why they are pushing delphi in schools right? [17:47:19] <Queery> I think most of the staff knows the old ms office and OOO is very much like it, that might help get them to move over to it [17:47:26] <tumbleweed> Banlam: yes, schools in general are very concious of industry [17:47:26] <Tonberry> haha @ delphi [17:47:41] <drubin> Banlam: Yes they are "training students to become competent in the work place" [17:47:54] <Banlam> ok, they never really relayed that to us when i was in school :P [17:47:55] <Tonberry> i thought they were on java these days [17:47:56] <drubin> tumbleweed: I think education department more then schools [17:48:19] <drubin> Banlam: "trying" doesn't mean they are good at it :( [17:48:22] <Banlam> tonberry, lots of private/ieb schools are on delphi [17:48:34] <tumbleweed> drubin: I took industry more seriously when I was in school than I do now [17:48:36] <Tonberry> poor things [17:48:45] <drubin> I don't think us debating this in this channel right now is going to solve stuff though... [17:48:55] <tumbleweed> I think some good case studies would be a start [17:49:08] <tumbleweed> people pushing their own children's schools to experiment... [17:49:10] <drubin> tumbleweed: True but where/who/how do we go about that [17:49:12] <Queery> i agree [17:49:51] <drubin> Any one have any thing more on this or can we move on? [17:49:59] <tumbleweed> no, lets move on [17:50:19] <drubin> I am going to move stuff around slightly because my point effects the events for 2011 [17:50:36] <drubin> Maaz: Topic Loco-Contact replacement [17:50:36] <Maaz> Current Topic: Loco-Contact replacement [17:50:57] <drubin> So basically over the last few months I have not been doing enough. [17:51:26] <drubin> maiatoday has honestly been helping me far far beyond what is required and been the driving force behind ubuntu-za (un officially) [17:52:03] <drubin> the problem is over the last 2 or so months maiatoday has had other more important things to be doing so has helped see so, and it started to show how little I am doing for ubuntu-za [17:52:37] <maiatoday> drubin is there a reference somewhere where one can see what a loco contact typically does? [17:52:39] <drubin> not that I was ever trying to hide it from any one, It just worked out that I did offical paper work stuffs and maia did an amazing job at events [17:52:51] <Queery> what is the official structure of the loco team [17:53:06] <nlsthzn> understandable, this is all above and beyond stuff... [17:53:07] <drubin> Queery: We don't have one (and I don't think we should) [17:53:33] <tumbleweed> the loco contacts are the point of contact between the loco council and us (as I understand it), and that's about it [17:53:35] <maiatoday> if we have a list of things we want to do then maybe we can delegate some tasks which would help [17:53:54] <drubin> but the reason I am brining it is, is I have no problem continuing to do what I have been doing for the last almost 3 years BUT I do feel that some one with fresh blood and more motivation can do more for ubuntu-za then I can at the momment [17:53:57] <maiatoday> well then drubin is doing a great job because he is our contact [17:54:19] <drubin> tumbleweed: yes, but we ubuntu-za take loco-contact as being the "TeamLeader" and "Driving force" [17:54:22] <kbmonkey> pointing out there is a generalized LoCo Howto at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto [17:54:30] * nlsthzn thinks delegation is the name of the team game [17:54:43] <maiatoday> but it is always a good idea to step away before you fall down dead :) [17:54:43] <drubin> because every one ha always asked me "can I do this" which is kinda not the way things should work IMHO [17:54:54] * tumbleweed would happily serve as a contact, for the paperwork side, but I don't have the time/energy left to be a decent leader / driving force [17:54:58] [17:54:58] <drubin> maiatoday: Hence brining it up [17:55:15] <drubin> tumbleweed: that can work if we can find some one to handle the other side of things [17:55:22] <drubin> this kinda the way maiatoday and I did things [17:55:43] <maiatoday> tumbleweed: I am planning to continue to do whatever I dream up to do, but I will have sparser time slots this year [17:55:54] <maiatoday> so whoever becomes the contact will have my support [17:55:58] <kbmonkey> so delegating tasks out to more people, making lighter work for everyone [17:56:00] <Queery> i am more than willing to halp with organising events [17:56:04] <drubin> tumbleweed: And mine. [17:56:08] <tumbleweed> Queery: awesome! [17:56:17] <drubin> but I just think the offical title needs to be moved on to some one else [17:56:21] <tumbleweed> kbmonkey: th problem is one can't delegate to volunteers, somebody has to stand up [17:56:37] <tumbleweed> err to unnamed volunteers [17:56:37] <drubin> kbmonkey: Deligation does NOT work in this type of setup [17:56:41] <drubin> it never has.. [17:56:50] <drubin> people need to just do stuff [17:56:52] <drubin> :( [17:56:55] <kbmonkey> as of this month I have fixed net access, want to help again :) [17:56:57] <tumbleweed> we call it a do-ocracy [17:57:28] <drubin> that is why I became contact because I kinda wanted to do stuff so did it, then maia came about and did amazingly awesome stuff with stellenbosch and she did stuff [17:57:30] * nlsthzn finds doing stuff when not knowing what stuff needs done can be... troublesome [17:57:47] <drubin> any how I have never really cared for the title thing, I just owe it to ubuntu-za to mention this. [17:57:54] <tumbleweed> nlsthzn: there's nothing that needs to be done really [17:58:04] <tumbleweed> we just want to do as much as we can :) [17:58:08] <drubin> I had planned on writing up the wiki page of stuff I do, but my net access was kinda flaky [17:58:11] * maiatoday doesn't know what needs to be done either :) [17:58:22] <Queery> i think that we need atleast oe rep per region [17:58:32] <nlsthzn> cool, at least I am on the same page as you guys then :p [17:58:43] <drubin> maiatoday: I think we need more of what you did last year (but by every one around the country) more in person meetings/events [17:58:56] <maiatoday> I agree [17:59:00] <drubin> honestly the paper work/team reports/ML is nothing and takes 2mins [17:59:01] <Queery> agee [17:59:02] <maiatoday> and it's fun and easy too [17:59:07] <kbmonkey> I like that idea [17:59:11] <drubin> maiatoday: but requires motivation [17:59:25] * nlsthzn thinks drubin is fine as the guy with the title [17:59:27] <drubin> kbmonkey: You do *not* need to be loco contact to do any of those things [17:59:45] <Queery> can we set up a list of things we need/want to do [18:00:02] <drubin> the problem I have with finding a new person is that almost all people that want to do it are people that haven't done it before [18:00:06] <tumbleweed> Queery: that's a good chuck of what these meetings are about [18:00:13] <kbmonkey> Okay drubin [18:00:14] <superfly> drubin: so are we proposing that maiatoday or tumbleweed become team contact(s)? [18:00:19] <drubin> not that experience is the issue the issue is driving motivation [18:00:10] <tumbleweed> chunk [18:00:26] <tumbleweed> superfly: I'd like to see somebody newer stand up [18:00:37] <maiatoday> which is why Queery is a good candidate [18:00:41] <drubin> ie the "get up and do atitude" [18:00:45] <Queery> ubuntu hour and release parties are the main events at the moment [18:01:04] <kbmonkey> drubin, I'd like to nominate myself, but also propose we nominate at least two [18:01:16] <drubin> kbmonkey, nlsthzn not that I think you wouldn't make a good candidate that isn't what I am saying. [18:01:21] <Queery> and i am more than willing [18:01:21] <kbmonkey> the Ubuntu wiki mentions "at least one" [18:01:26] <drubin> I am saying that having a title changes nothing [18:01:27] <maiatoday> I think it is good if there is more than one person [18:01:45] <tumbleweed> however, if having a title gives someone motivation, then awesome :) [18:01:48] <drubin> you need to continue to do what you have already been doing [18:02:05] * nlsthzn is to far away... but will always help if possible, when and where [18:02:06] <Banlam> will people not feel more obliged to do things with a title? although i agree this isn't the best way to look at i [18:02:11] <Queery> maiatoday: per region? [18:02:17] * drubin is uses the term "we" to be whole ubuntu-za [18:02:27] <drubin> s/we/you [18:02:44] <kbmonkey> I think team contacts communicating between another often is good motivation [18:03:07] <superfly> so we have two nominations? [18:03:17] <superfly> (or nominees) [18:03:52] * superfly has a few other things to do this evening and is hoping the meeting will roll quickly [18:04:01] <Queery> i nominate maia and myself for stellenbosch/ct [18:04:17] * Kerbero nominate queery too :P [18:04:26] <Tonberry> s [18:04:26] <kbmonkey> And myself for Durban [18:04:27] <Queery> or at least ct [18:04:43] <drubin> Banlam: I have been contact since 2009 it is time to get rid of the old people [18:05:03] <drubin> we do need single contact for the loco-council though [18:05:06] <Banlam> that was aimed at me because? [18:05:19] <drubin> Banlam: can't remember ;/ oops [18:05:22] <Banlam> :P [18:05:26] <drubin> Banlam: I think I started typing something else [18:05:31] <Kerbero> lets nominate banlam [18:05:41] <superfly> maiatoday: for loco-council contact? [18:05:43] <Banlam> i respectfully decline [18:05:54] <maiatoday> hang on, are we looking for contact or more people to do stuff [18:06:04] * nlsthzn thinks the wider loco should be included via mailing list maybe? [18:06:19] <maiatoday> I don't have time for the admin role, but I am not intending to stop organising whatever I want to organise :) [18:06:34] <Queery> same here [18:06:54] <kbmonkey> is local council contact diff than team contact? [18:06:58] <Queery> does the loco contact need to be ubuntu member? [18:07:12] <nlsthzn> nope [18:07:27] <nlsthzn> but must have signed the code of conduct etc [18:07:27] <drubin> Sorry should have been more clear this meeting is NOT to decide who to replace me [18:07:35] <drubin> but rather how we should go about it [18:07:52] <drubin> nlsthzn is completely right we aren't going to pick any one now. [18:08:02] <superfly> drubin: oh, nominations and then elections at the next meeting? [18:08:05] <drubin> nlsthzn: and should preferably be an ubuntumember OR working towards it [18:08:12] <Queery> that should happen on the mailing list [18:08:16] <drubin> superfly: IMHO elections are pointless [18:08:43] <drubin> we give every one in ubuntu-za (ie the mailing list) a chance to vote and most of them either don't care or they don't have a clue who does stuff around here [18:09:04] <tumbleweed> however, I'd like to see some new blood helping to organise things [18:09:06] <kbmonkey> instead of elections, lets nominate ourselves, try set up some system, and see how it works [18:09:18] <Queery> but you give them the choice [18:10:25] <maiatoday> We do want to give someone who is keen but hesitant a chance to jump in and help too [18:10:38] <drubin> maiatoday: with out a doubt [18:10:53] <drubin> but that is the problem with voting..... would those people get voted in? [18:11:23] <maiatoday> so I propose that people elect themselves and then the smaller group of self elected people figure out what to do next [18:11:30] <drubin> Either way I will continue to do my useless thing and deal with the ML's / website / ubuntu hours / Ubuntu release parties [18:11:31] <Queery> the discussion and nominations can happen on the mailing list and voting on the irc [18:11:42] <drubin> but I do think that by after this release party we should kick me out :) [18:11:47] <maiatoday> not useless drubin, you are too modest [18:12:09] <Queery> agree [18:12:14] <nlsthzn> ubuntu-za rocks and so too all that make it happen [18:12:19] <drubin> it really isn't that must work [18:12:24] <drubin> much* [18:12:32] <kbmonkey> Yes if you feel to bring in new people drubin I agree, it would help others learn the proces too! [18:12:50] <drubin> any how think we should can this this "quick" meeting has gone on for 1:15mins :) [18:13:15] <drubin> kbmonkey: I have NO intention of just disapearing just don't want to be offical any more [18:13:16] <maiatoday> ok so do we send a call for self-election out on the ML as an action, and move on? [18:13:33] <Tonberry> and we haven't even gotten to the bashing SU studnets part.... [18:13:37] <drubin> Maaz: Agreed drubin will post to the ML about self nominations [18:13:37] <Maaz> Agreed: drubin will post to the ML about self nominations [18:13:40] <Queery> second maiatoday [18:13:56] <kbmonkey> I thought so :) [18:13:58] <drubin> Tonberry: ? [18:13:59] [18:14:01] <drubin> what did I miss [18:14:11] <Tonberry> UCT LEG stand got >100 sign-ups, mostly beginners. How about Stellies? Can we do anything for these beginners that's more technical than a release party? [18:14:16] <Tonberry> that part [18:14:28] <drubin> Tonberry: margo wasn't here and no one really knew what else to say [18:14:33] <Tonberry> ah [18:14:36] <Tonberry> k [18:14:39] <drubin> Tonberry: you can speak for stellies if you want? :) [18:14:47] <Banlam> what happened when Kerbero handed out the ubuntu discs to all the first year BSC people? [18:14:49] <drubin> wow stellies has a big turn out in here [18:14:58] <Banlam> was there any follow up? [18:14:58] <Kerbero> already did [18:15:00] <Tonberry> i wont have anything good to say.... [18:15:00] <Banlam> or feedback? [18:15:05] <Kerbero> about 100 of them [18:15:12] <Kerbero> herad nothing yet [18:15:18] <Kerbero> will go and ask osmetime [18:15:22] <Banlam> ok [18:15:30] * maiatoday hopes they aren't using them as beer coasters [18:15:32] <drubin> Maaz: agreeed Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out [18:15:32] <Maaz> drubin: Excuse me? [18:15:37] <Queery> stellies is in a rut, ill try to get them out [18:15:40] <drubin> Maaz: agreed Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out [18:15:40] <Maaz> Agreed: Kerbero to find out about this mass ubuntu CD hand out [18:15:47] <Tonberry> the server edition cds make great beer coasters.... [18:15:52] <Kerbero> hehe ja [18:15:56] <drubin> Queery: No actually stellies is doing the most events/stuff out of the whole country [18:15:59] <Kerbero> dis crap om met so baie van hulle te sit [18:16:02] <Queery> agree [18:16:22] <Tonberry> but few of the ones participating are students [18:16:23] * nlsthzn wants some to be shipped to the UAE ;) [18:16:24] <drubin> nlsthzn kbmonkey: The location thing *really* is kinda helps btw [18:16:35] <drubin> we do need more people around SA [18:16:38] <Queery> stellies it self is just attending ubuntu-za events [18:16:47] <drubin> Any one else have any thing to say? [18:16:54] <Kerbero> my dvorak fail [18:17:12] <Kerbero> <Banlam> wie gaan die volgende sulug beer evening reel? [18:17:20] <Kerbero> baie valid vraag [18:17:21] <Banlam> lol [18:17:32] <Tonberry> sulug!=ubuntu-za [18:17:35] <Banlam> i think that's specific top stellenbosch [18:17:36] <Kerbero> so? [18:17:37] <Banlam> yeah [18:17:40] <Kerbero> ons run basies sulug [18:17:41] <Banlam> and not really for discussion here [18:17:51] * Kerbero gaan slaap maar weer [18:17:55] <drubin> every single person that comes bar gareth is an ubuntu user [18:18:00] <Queery> agree [18:18:00] <drubin> Maaz: End meeting