Meeting information

• #xubuntu-devel: Xubuntu community meeting, 13 Jun at 14:59 — 16:18 UTC

• Full logs at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-06-13-14.59.log.html

Meeting summary

Items carried on

The discussion about "Items carried on" started at 15:00.

Team updates

The discussion about "Team updates" started at 15:00.

• Contacted unixstickers.com and they're happy to do case badges plus send us some for free (instead of straight cash profit sharing)

• Merge proposed for the seed to put apt-offline in. Bug placed to update the metapackage. Waiting for action on the merge which will then allow the metapackage update to happen later.
• Improved multi-monitor support for our Plymouth theme
• Started a new icon-theme addon for our default icon theme that will make some of the toolbar-icons monochrome
• Greybird and Bluebird (from git) now support Gtk3.8
• Started doing some sponsored packaging on debian
• Manual testcases being created for Xubuntu apps
• LightDM GTK+ Greeter 1.6 released, probably not in repos yet
• Autopilot testing being looked at by lderan
• Got sponsored sync from Debian Experimental completed of apt-offline 1.3 to Ubuntu archive. 1.3 has been in experimental since January. Tested it for a while in my testing PPA and it did not explode so requested and received sync.
• Trying to fix suspend and hibernate in light-locker, so we can use lightdm as lockscreen in Xubuntu and (finally) drop xscreensaver

• Pondering what to do about the shift to chromium in the base Ubuntu seed. Will need to coordinate with Micah Gersten and Lionel LeFolgoc about possible doing an exclusion in the Xubuntu seed to ensure we keep Firefox in our install if we so choose instead of inheriting from the base.

Announcements

The discussion about "Announcements" started at 15:10.

• Xubuntu release team (15:10)

  • LINK: https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-release

  • ACTION: knome adds elfy to ~xubuntu-release, sends email about adding other members later

New and emerging items

The discussion about "New and emerging items" started at 15:21.

• Discuss about LTS/normal releases after changes to the release support length (15:21)

  • IDEA: There may be a need alongside continuing releasing every six months to increase user education as to the appropriateness and value of updating & upgrading (skellat, 15:27)

  • ACTION: skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so

  • Vote: Keep doing regular releases every 6 months and try to keep their stability as we're doing now (+1) or something else (-1) ? (Carried)

Organizing testing for Saucy

The discussion about "Organizing testing for Saucy" started at 15:30.

• New greeter - when is it likely to land? Do we want to do a specific call for testing it? (15:30)

  • LINK: release announcement: http://www.smdavis.us/2013/06/03/lightdm-gtk-greeter-1-6-0-released/

  • LINK: https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily

  • ACTION: bluesabre to create lightdm-gtk-greeter stable PPA

  • ACTION: bluesabre and ochosi to investigate setting user profile image

  • ACTION: bluesabre to set up sponsored upload for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6

• Is there anything anyone knows of presently that we need to plan for testing? (15:41)

  • ACTION: elfy create greeter testcase

• Alpha 1 release is June 20th (one week away). Are we opting in or opting out? (15:47)

What is the story from upstream Xfce on 4.12's release situation?

The discussion about "What is the story from upstream Xfce on 4.12's release situation?" started at 15:48.

• IDEA: Release team to formally opt out of Alpha 1 and request that, when ready, daily builds get halted so that we have a particular exemplar to test before Alpha 2 or Alpha 3. (skellat, 15:52)

• IDEA: Contact Xfce upstream again to find out what is going on with 4.12 (skellat, 15:52)

• ACTION: elfy talk to balloons re daily builds/cadence testing if necessary for us

• ACTION: ochosi to poke xfce guys about 4.12 again

• IDEA: Upgrade xubuntu-bugs on LP into a proper team (skellat, 15:55)

• LINK: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol

• ACTION: skellat to develop a proposal for consideration at next scheduled meeting for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs

Desktop of the Week / Featured desktop -feature on the website

The discussion about "Desktop of the Week / Featured desktop -feature on the website" started at 16:08.

• we have some volunteers, but my other bullet points for requirements haven't yet been satisfied

• LINK: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-June/008957.html

• ACTION: pleia2 to draft submission guidelines and send to list for review

Schedule next meeting

The discussion about "Schedule next meeting" started at 16:16.

Vote results

• Keep doing regular releases every 6 months and try to keep their stability as we're doing now (+1) or something else (-1) ?
  • Motion carried (For/Against/Abstained 9/0/0)

Action items

• knome adds elfy to ~xubuntu-release, sends email about adding other members later

• skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so

• bluesabre to create lightdm-gtk-greeter stable PPA
• bluesabre and ochosi to investigate setting user profile image
• bluesabre to set up sponsored upload for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6
• elfy create greeter testcase
• elfy talk to balloons re daily builds/cadence testing if necessary for us
• ochosi to poke xfce guys about 4.12 again
• skellat to develop a proposal for consideration at next scheduled meeting for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs
• pleia2 to draft submission guidelines and send to list for review

Action items, by person

• bluesabre
  • bluesabre to create lightdm-gtk-greeter stable PPA
  • bluesabre and ochosi to investigate setting user profile image
  • bluesabre to set up sponsored upload for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6
• elfy
  • knome adds elfy to ~xubuntu-release, sends email about adding other members later
  • elfy create greeter testcase
  • elfy talk to balloons re daily builds/cadence testing if necessary for us
• knome
  • knome adds elfy to ~xubuntu-release, sends email about adding other members later
• ochosi
  • bluesabre and ochosi to investigate setting user profile image
  • ochosi to poke xfce guys about 4.12 again
• pleia2
  • pleia2 to draft submission guidelines and send to list for review
• skellat

  • skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so

  • skellat to develop a proposal for consideration at next scheduled meeting for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs

People present (lines said)

• knome (158)
• elfy (46)
• pleia2 (46)
• bluesabre (45)

• GridCube (34)

• meetingology (32)
• skellat (27)
• ochosi (18)
• micahg-work (17)
• lderan (13)
• rowboatnick (6)
• Joshun (1)
• jjfrv8 (1)

Full Log

• 14:59 <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu community meeting

  14:59 <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 13 14:59:14 2013 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

  14:59 <meetingology>

  14:59 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

  14:59 <lderan> Hello

  14:59 <knome> #chair pleia2

  14:59 <meetingology> Current chairs: knome pleia2 14:59 * skellat is present for the meeting

  15:00 <Joshun> hi

  15:00 <knome> #topic Items carried on

  15:00 <knome> no items carried on.

  15:00 <knome> #topic Team updates

  15:00 <knome> please use #info and #action for team updates

  15:00 <knome> anybody has any news since the three nights of xubuntu?

  15:01 <pleia2> yeah, some marketing

  15:01 <bluesabre> hey everyone

  15:01 <pleia2> #info Contacted unixstickers.com and they're happy to do case badges plus send us some for free (instead of straight cash profit sharing)

  15:02 <knome> \o/

  15:02 <knome> sounds good

  15:02 <ochosi> knome: what kind of news are you looking for?

  15:02 <knome> ochosi, team updates eg. "what have you done" ?

  15:03 <ochosi> right

  15:03 <ochosi> i fixed multi-monitor support of plymouth

  15:03 <pleia2> they did ask that we promote them somehow, so we can chat about that later (link, blog post)

  15:03 <ochosi> oh, sry pleia2

  15:03 <pleia2> no, go for it 15:03 * ochosi thought you were done

  15:03 <pleia2> sorry

  15:03 <knome> pleia2, we will definitely want to link them, otherwise it's hard for people to find those stickers :P 15:03 * pleia2 nods

  15:03 <knome> pleia2, btw, would they do regular stickers as well?

  15:03 <skellat> #info Merge proposed for the seed to put apt-offline in. Bug placed to update the metapackage. Waiting for action on the merge which will then allow the metapackage update to happen later.

  15:04 <ochosi> #info Improved multi-monitor support for our Plymouth theme

  15:04 <bluesabre> I've started doing some sponsored packaging on debian, learning the ropes

  15:04 <knome> yay bluesabre

  15:04 <knome> bluesabre, can you #info that?

  15:04 <ochosi> #info Started a new icon-theme addon for our default icon theme that will make some of the toolbar-icons monochrome

  15:04 <pleia2> knome: could do, only was focusing on casebadges for now since that's what we're struggling with quality-wise

  15:05 <elfy> #Manual testcases being created for Xubuntu apps

  15:05 <ochosi> #info Greybird and Bluebird (from git) now support Gtk3.8

  15:05 <bluesabre> #info Started doing some sponsored packaging on debian

  15:05 <elfy> #info Manual testcases being created for Xubuntu apps

  15:05 <bluesabre> #info LightDM GTK+ Greeter 1.6 released, probably not in repos yet

  15:05 <elfy> #info Autopilot testing being looked at by lderan

  15:05 <skellat> #info Got sponsored sync from Debian Experimental completed of apt-offline 1.3 to Ubuntu archive. 1.3 has been in experimental since January. Tested it for a while in my testing PPA and it did not explode so requested and received sync.

  15:05 <ochosi> #info Trying to fix suspend and hibernate in light-locker, so we can use lightdm as lockscreen in Xubuntu and (finally) drop xscreensaver

  15:06 <pleia2> so much good news!

  15:06 <knome> yes!

  15:06 <lderan> woo \o/

  15:06 <knome> i should leave the team to work on things more often it seems :P

  15:06 <bluesabre> nah, finished those things weeks ago :P

  15:06 <knome> haha

  15:06 <knome> thanks for the support to have a break

  15:07 <pleia2> clearly the answer is fewer meetings

  15:07 <knome> probably

  15:07 <knome> anything else?

  15:07 <micahg-work> I like xscreensaver...

  15:07 <knome> aww

  15:07 <knome> #chair micahg-work

  15:07 <meetingology> Current chairs: knome micahg-work pleia2 15:07 * micahg-work doesn't need to be a chair

  15:07 <pleia2> I won't miss the "omg fire" reactions from users

  15:08 <knome> meetingology, no, but i usually add any team leads who are around as chairs.

  15:08 <meetingology> knome: Error: "no," is not a valid command.

  15:08 <knome> micahg-work too

  15:08 <skellat> #info Pondering what to do about the shift to chromium in the base Ubuntu seed. Will need to coordinate with Micah Gersten and Lionel LeFolgoc about possible doing an exclusion in the Xubuntu seed to ensure we keep Firefox in our install if we so choose instead of inheriting from the base.

  15:08 <knome> #chair ochosi

  15:08 <meetingology> Current chairs: knome micahg-work ochosi pleia2 15:08 * micahg-work isn't even a team lead...

  15:08 <ochosi> micahg-work: i don't like that it's impossible to change anything about xscreensaver

  15:08 <elfy> lot of chairs

  15:08 <knome> haha

  15:08 <knome> you are correct.

  15:08 <micahg-work> ochosi, what do you mean?

  15:09 <knome> #chair skellat elfy lderan

  15:09 <meetingology> Current chairs: elfy knome lderan micahg-work ochosi pleia2 skellat

  15:09 <knome> :P

  15:09 <ochosi> micahg-work: style-wise, you can't even remove the stupid xscreensaver-logo (the firery thing pleia2 mentioned)

  15:09 <ochosi> micahg-work: and i'd argue that there is some (visual) consistency to using the login-screen as lock-screen

  15:09 <knome> anyway... if we have broader issues, can we discuss them in "new items", or in smaller groups less officially after the meeting?

  15:10 <ochosi> sure

  15:10 <knome> #topic Announcements

  15:10 <knome> #subtopic Xubuntu release team

  15:10 <knome> https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-release

  15:10 <micahg-work> ochosi, sounds like a feature request for jwz?

  15:10 <knome> There's now a Xubuntu release team

  15:11 <bluesabre> \o/

  15:11 <knome> this team is able to set images ready for release in the iso tracker

  15:11 <knome> it will always consist of the XPL, the testing lead and one or two developers

  15:12 <bluesabre> sounds handy

  15:12 <knome> basically it will need to be people who are aware of the state of the images near the (milestone) releases to be able to make informed decisions

  15:13 <knome> so far i'm the only one in the team, but i'll add elfy today after we've officially agreed that my proposal is fine

  15:14 <knome> is there anybody who disagrees with xubuntu release team being XPL + testing/QA lead + some developer(s)

  15:14 <knome> (with arguments, please :P)

  15:14 <GridCube> not me

  15:14 <lderan> nope sounds good to me

  15:14 <bluesabre> +1

  15:14 <knome> also, is there a developer (micah, sean) who would like to be in the team?

  15:15 <bluesabre> I'd like to be on it, but I am not an official "Xubuntu developer" yet

  15:15 <knome> yes, i would say it would be good to have somebody with upload rights on the team

  15:16 <micahg-work> I'm not around enough during release time to be able to keep track of everything

  15:16 <knome> if and as it seems bluesabre is getting them sooner or later, i wouldn't mind if bluesabre was the one in the team though

  15:16 <micahg-work> I don't think upload rights inherently matter

  15:16 <knome> no, but it would be ++

  15:16 <micahg-work> you can't "upload" images

  15:16 <knome> no, but you can upload things that can fix images

  15:17 <knome> or things in images

  15:17 <knome> my argument is that it would be handy to have somebody who is both aware of the situation and able to fix things

  15:17 <knome> to avoid stupid bugs getting in

  15:17 <skellat> We can still handle bug killing through normal processes

  15:18 <bluesabre> Still dependent on somebody with upload rights for anything Xubuntu-specific

  15:18 <knome> skellat, usually, but as we have seen, it can be a pain in the back if we don't have people with upload rights around and we're really close to a (milestone) release

  15:18 <knome> of course we don't want to have to fix things last-minute, but things happen

  15:19 <lderan> indeed they do

  15:19 <skellat> This is a cycle where we can take that gamble. 14.04 will be a different story but this round we can afford to take that gamble as the support window is only 9 months.

  15:19 <knome> skellat, that sounds like a different discussion

  15:19 <knome> anyway

  15:20 <elfy> if you ask me - if bluesabre is happy to do so add him - we can amend as we go

  15:20 <knome> #action knome adds elfy to ~xubuntu-release, sends email about adding other members later 15:20 * meetingology knome adds elfy to ~xubuntu-release, sends email about adding other members later

  15:20 <knome> first part done.

  15:21 <knome> #topic New and emerging items

  15:21 <knome> #subtopic Discuss about LTS/normal releases after changes to the release support length

  15:21 <knome> * Do we still want to keep normal releases as stable as they are now, or should we use less manpower for that?

  15:21 <knome> * Should LTS release always be the proposed release and normal releases "not encouraged"?

  15:21 <knome> * Should we follow the lead of Mythbuntu and only release LTS to LTS?

  15:21 <knome> so?

  15:22 <GridCube> stability its a must

  15:22 <bluesabre> People will lose interest if we become LTS-only

  15:22 <knome> GridCube, arguments?

  15:22 <knome> bluesabre, ^

  15:22 <ochosi> i think that doing releases is good practice and motivation to squash bugs

  15:23 <ochosi> people tend to do stuff last-minute, which would be extremely bad if we only have lts releases... 15:23 * pleia2 agrees

  15:23 <GridCube> i've said this before, but we have to provide a desktop that massive deployers would want to have in count for work enviroments, we should be the first option there

  15:23 <bluesabre> Everyone wants the latest features, developers need a playground to add features, test, and fix bugs

  15:23 <pleia2> so in ubuntu-land it was found that unless something specifically keeps people back (like the switch to unity ;)), most people upgrade to the next 6 month release pretty quickly, so it's not like the switch from 18 to 9 months of support actually changes all that much

  15:24 <GridCube> lts its important, but stable releases every 6 months provide bug patches and better work

  15:24 <GridCube> i mean better software

  15:24 <knome> i agree that the normal (or "interim") releases are a good way to motivate people

  15:24 <pleia2> calling them "interim" devalues them, no likey

  15:24 <GridCube> i like the release cycle we have now

  15:24 <pleia2> they are regular releases

  15:24 <knome> okay.

  15:25 <lderan> i do like the current cycle as well

  15:25 <skellat> At this point, as long as the upgrade path is stable and consistent I am fine with releases. We have to ensure an appropriate mindset with our user base, though, that updating can in fact be good for them. When I look through AskUbuntu at Xubuntu questions it seems odd when I see questions about End Of Life versions just sitting there or people holding onto the past.

  15:25 <pleia2> skellat: I think people who stay on old releases just don't understand how this all works (and I hope they are a minority)

  15:26 <GridCube> we should make sure that the standard packages we provide are stable and will work well

  15:26 <pleia2> afterall, windows xp worked for like 10 years why wouldn't xubuntu?

  15:26 <knome> one of the things keeping some xubuntu users not up-to-date is their (sometimes justified) fear that the newer version won't run (smoothly enough) on their PC's

  15:26 <GridCube> from update to update

  15:26 <ochosi> i agree with pleia2 that we shouldn't devalue our releases, we should certainly encourage people to upgrade

  15:26 <skellat> pleia2: That WinXP view of things frightens me. We have to adequately inform and educate our user base to avoid it.

  15:26 <bluesabre> I agree that normal releases should maintain their stability, like GridCube mentioned, we have "customers" that probably depend on not having to install every 6-9 months

  15:26 <knome> sounds like people are willing to put the effort to release every 6 months

  15:27 <knome> let's do a simple vote.

  15:27 <skellat> #idea There may be a need alongside continuing releasing every six months to increase user education as to the appropriateness and value of updating & upgrading

  15:27 <knome> skellat, agreed. want to work on a blog article or something?

  15:28 <skellat> knome: I'll take that as an action item

  15:28 <knome> skellat, you should be able to draft that on xubuntu.org, and others are able to review and give feedback. when it's ready, we'll hit publish

  15:28 <knome> thanks

  15:28 <skellat> #action skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so

  15:28 * meetingology skellat to prepare blog article discussing updating & upgrading for users and why it is okay to do so

  15:28 <pleia2> \o/

  15:29 <lderan> \o/

  15:29 <knome> #vote Keep doing regular releases every 6 months and try to keep their stability as we're doing now (+1) or something else (-1) ?

  15:29 <meetingology> Please vote on: Keep doing regular releases every 6 months and try to keep their stability as we're doing now (+1) or something else (-1) ?

  15:29 <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)

  15:29 <knome> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from knome

  15:29 <GridCube> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube

  15:29 <elfy> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from elfy

  15:29 <bluesabre> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from bluesabre

  15:29 <ochosi> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi

  15:29 <lderan> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from lderan

  15:29 <skellat> +1

  15:29 <meetingology> +1 received from skellat

  15:30 <pleia2> +1

  15:30 <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2

  15:30 <jjfrv8> +1

  15:30 <meetingology> +1 received from jjfrv8

  15:30 <knome> #endvote

  15:30 <meetingology> Voting ended on: Keep doing regular releases every 6 months and try to keep their stability as we're doing now (+1) or something else (-1) ?

  15:30 <meetingology> Votes for:9 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0

  15:30 <meetingology> Motion carried

  15:30 <knome> next!

  15:30 <GridCube>

  15:30 <knome> #topic Organizing testing for Saucy

  15:30 <knome> #subtopic New greeter - when is it likely to land? Do we want to do a specific call for testing it?

  15:31 <GridCube> where its information about this new greeter?

  15:31 <GridCube> it will be touchscreen friendly?

  15:31 <knome> ochosi, bluesabre?

  15:31 <pleia2> brb

  15:31 <bluesabre> one sec

  15:32 <knome> me brb too

  15:32 <ochosi> meh, i have a phone-call (work), that might take a bit...

  15:32 <bluesabre> #link release announcement: http://www.smdavis.us/2013/06/03/lightdm-gtk-greeter-1-6-0-released/

  15:33 <GridCube> (i've read that the new "variety" wallpaper changer program can be set up to update the lightdm wallpaper to match the current wallpaper of the desktop, can this option be added to the xfce menus somewhere?)

  15:33 <bluesabre> how soon do we want it? I can do a sponsored upload tonight

  15:33 <elfy> bluesabre: well it needs testing somehow

  15:33 <bluesabre> ppa

  15:33 <bluesabre> one sec

  15:34 <elfy> I can do a testcase for it pretty quicky - then it's just working out how to get it on the qa tracker

  15:34 <bluesabre> we have a daily ppa for it presently

  15:34 <bluesabre> #link https://launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/+archive/daily

  15:34 <bluesabre> I will create a stable release ppa soon

  15:34 <elfy> yea - I have that here

  15:34 <knome> elfy, i'm able to help with that

  15:34 <elfy> knome: ok

  15:34 <GridCube> also, whats with that picture on the greeter? how can xubuntu users put their pictures tehre?

  15:35 <bluesabre> ~/.face

  15:35 <lderan> ah

  15:35 <GridCube> bluesabre: can that be edited on the setting menu?

  15:35 <bluesabre> I think the user manager might support setting user-image, ochosi?

  15:36 <elfy> knome: also need to sort out so can approve testcases for us

  15:36 <bluesabre> if not, I'll look into getting a patch in for it

  15:36 <knome> elfy, i can approve.

  15:37 <knome> elfy, and i can make you able to approve

  15:37 <elfy> that works

  15:37 <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to create lightdm-gtk-greeter stable PPA 15:37 * meetingology bluesabre to create lightdm-gtk-greeter stable PPA

  15:38 <knome> are concerned people fine with this information, or do we need to discuss further

  15:38 <elfy> I can let slickymaster know to mark me as someone to check his testcases

  15:38 <elfy> knome: hang on

  15:38 <knome> (we/you can always come back to that later after the meeting)

  15:38 <knome> oki

  15:38 <bluesabre> #action bluesabre and ochosi to investigate setting user profile image 15:38 * meetingology bluesabre and ochosi to investigate setting user profile image

  15:38 <elfy> I've not actually got any answers

  15:38 <knome> you're correct :P

  15:38 <elfy> do we want to test this new greeter specifically - I'd say yes

  15:38 <knome> yup

  15:39 <bluesabre> should I go ahead and create an action item to get the sponsored upload started?

  15:39 <elfy> bluesabre and ochosi can let me know when it's going to be released - then we can set up test on qa and then I can mail the list about it

  15:39 <knome> if it's distinctly different than the last greeter at least

  15:39 <knome> bluesabre, if you're ok with getting a sponsored upload with that, sure

  15:39 <pleia2> elfy: yes, mail the list, I'm very lazy and won't test until there is a specific call and the instructions are very clear

  15:39 <elfy> well it was distinct enough for me to say it was broken

  15:40 <elfy> pleia2: exactly what I want to be avoiding

  15:40 <pleia2> (I kid, it's less "no time" than lazy, if I can spin it up and test in less than an hour I'm much more likely to)

  15:40 <bluesabre> #action bluesabre to set up sponsored upload for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6 15:40 * meetingology bluesabre to set up sponsored upload for lightdm-gtk-greeter 1.6

  15:40 <pleia2> s/less/more

  15:40 <knome> bluesabre, that probably is blocked until we've got testing done though

  15:40 <bluesabre> yeah

  15:40 <elfy> knome: well we can get people to test from the ppa

  15:40 <knome> elfy, sure

  15:41 <elfy> though they'll need greybird from git as well

  15:41 <knome> ok, that leads us to...

  15:41 <knome> #subtopic Is there anything anyone knows of presently that we need to plan for testing?

  15:41 <knome> display-dialog?

  15:41 <rowboatnick> o/

  15:41 <knome> are we going to introduce that?

  15:42 <bluesabre> depends on xfce-4.12

  15:42 <knome> ok

  15:42 <knome> bluesabre, anything else from you and simon?

  15:42 <bluesabre> not presently

  15:42 <GridCube> what about network conectivity from thunar

  15:43 <bluesabre> I think abiword 3.0 might be hitting the saucy repos soon

  15:43 <GridCube> like for shared networks

  15:43 <GridCube> i dont really like relaying on gigolo

  15:43 <knome> bluesabre, if that happens, will you (#action) be in touch with elfy and organize testing if needed?

  15:44 <elfy> basically what I need is to know in advance of things we want testing so I can get everything in place before

  15:44 <knome> exactly

  15:44 <elfy> and avoid last minute rushes for testing things

  15:44 <bluesabre> knome, display dialog or abiword?

  15:44 <elfy> #action elfy create greeter testcase 15:44 * meetingology elfy create greeter testcase

  15:44 <rowboatnick> What I want to do, is fix and write more test cases for autopilot

  15:44 <bluesabre> +1

  15:45 <bluesabre> I need to read up on autopilot, I've seen a lot of exchanges over it recently

  15:45 <elfy> rowboatnick: that's good - because that is above my head atm

  15:45 <knome> bluesabre, abiword. if 4.12 lands, we will have to discuss testing generally quite a bit more anyway

  15:45 <rowboatnick> elfy: if i write some, can you push them?

  15:45 <GridCube> new lightdm has onscreen keyboard!

  15:45 <lderan> ooo

  15:46 <bluesabre> knome, I'll try to keep up to date on it

  15:46 <knome> rowboatnick, if elfy can't, i can, and if i can't, i can make somebody do that

  15:46 <elfy> rowboatnick: once knome has made it so I can

  15:46 <knome> bluesabre, ta

  15:46 <rowboatnick> okay, roger

  15:46 <lderan> i should have a touch display soon, so will be able to help out with testing

  15:46 <knome> elfy, if you seem to miss any permissions after being added to ~xubuntu-release, just ask balloons to give you more

  15:46 <elfy> knome: ok

  15:47 <elfy> rowboatnick: I'd like to know if things are being done QA wise anyway

  15:47 <knome> that's pretty much what i'd need to do too, this way you'll just get it quicker

  15:47 <knome> the last subtopic for this item

  15:47 <knome> #subtopic Alpha 1 release is June 20th (one week away). Are we opting in or opting out?

  15:47 <elfy> knome: well noscaj had something he wanted me to look at - so I should be able to see

  15:48 <knome> i would say opt-out, since we don't have xfce 4.12 around yet.

  15:48 <elfy> ok - I can go with that

  15:48 <GridCube> will it be ready before 13.10?

  15:48 <knome> we might want to discuss a2/a3 more thoroughly regardless of 4.12 state, but for a1... we really haven't done anything big yet

  15:48 <bluesabre> yeah, we don't have any of our new stuff in saucy yet, and people will report bugs about greybird and gtk3.8

  15:48 <knome> ...that leads us to...

  15:48 <pleia2> knome: sounds good

  15:48 <knome> #topic What is the story from upstream Xfce on 4.12's release situation?

  15:48 <bluesabre> ochosi ^

  15:49 <elfy> knome: quick question

  15:49 <bluesabre> knome, last thing I saw, ochosi mailed xfce-dev about the current status

  15:49 <knome> (and re: a1, we basically just need to opt-in, so if we don't do anything, we don't get a milestone release)

  15:49 <bluesabre> with no response

  15:49 <knome> bluesabre, same here

  15:49 <knome> elfy, sure?

  15:49 <elfy> is there a way that we can run with an image for a week ignoring alpha's and cadence week - so we can test when WE need to?

  15:49 <bluesabre> we can try to ping Nick about it

  15:50 <knome> elfy, that might be possible, we probably need to be in touch with balloons/stgraber about that

  15:50 <elfy> ok - well I'll find out

  15:51 <knome> elfy, though that would basically be really close to having a decent "release" (and just not pushing release notes)

  15:51 <knome> (or announcement)

  15:51 <elfy> yep

  15:51 <elfy> I'm just trying to think ahead

  15:51 <GridCube> can't we blame it to extra care on stability? P:

  15:51 <knome> elfy, ta. #ubuntu-quality is a good place to ask that - when you do, ping me as well so i'll be able to track where we're going to

  15:51 <elfy> knome: ok

  15:52 <skellat> #idea Release team to formally opt out of Alpha 1 and request that, when ready, daily builds get halted so that we have a particular exemplar to test before Alpha 2 or Alpha 3.

  15:52 <knome> GridCube, i'm not sure if i follow your question

  15:52 <skellat> #idea Contact Xfce upstream again to find out what is going on with 4.12

  15:52 <elfy> #action elfy talk to balloons re daily builds/cadence testing if necessary for us 15:52 * meetingology elfy talk to balloons re daily builds/cadence testing if necessary for us

  15:52 <knome> #action ochosi to poke xfce guys about 4.12 again 15:52 * meetingology ochosi to poke xfce guys about 4.12 again

  15:52 <GridCube> its not a question, i say that if we ask for extra time we can blame that time on taking extra care on having a stable alpha

  15:52 <GridCube> P:

  15:53 <knome> skellat, re idea #1: that would basically be the same as "releasing" alpha 1 without release announcements.

  15:53 <knome> skellat, which is something we can do if we want.

  15:53 <skellat> knome: It would be a really, really, really late Alpha 1 though

  15:54 <skellat> knome: Meh. Upon further reflection, if we still don't have word from upstream we should just skip Alpha 1 and let it roll away. We're still getting bugs from the dailies already as it is.

  15:55 <skellat> #idea Upgrade xubuntu-bugs on LP into a proper team

  15:56 <knome> yeah, i'm all for skipping alpha 1. there's not really much what we want to do with the alpha testing

  15:56 <knome> skellat, proper being... what?

  15:57 <knome> skellat, the team is created to act as an easy way to not make -devel/-team receive all bug mail about the world

  15:58 <skellat> knome: Have it integrated into overarching bug-squashing so that it can also do bug management

  15:58 <skellat> i.e. set severity levels like WON'TFIX and reassign bugs

  15:59 <pleia2> would require us to make the team no longer open (and someone to manage joining)

  15:59 <skellat> Ah

  15:59 <knome> we have -devel for that pretty much

  16:00 <pleia2> otherwise anyone could just join and go to town on crazy marking of our bugs

  16:00 <lderan> I plan on looking at seeing if i can fix some bugs soon P:

  16:00 <knome> +1

  16:00 <skellat> pleia2: True

  16:00 <bluesabre> +100

  16:00 <skellat> I'll drop that idea then

  16:00 <knome>

  16:00 <pleia2> not actually saying it's a bad idea, but it would need a manager

  16:01 <skellat> pleia2: Which would be something to table for a later meeting so that it could be more fully developed

  16:01 <knome> i don't think we have enough people to form a "xubuntu bug squad"

  16:01 <pleia2> skellat: +1

  16:01 <knome> i wonder what the requirements are to join the ubuntu bug squad

  16:02 <elfy> masochism I think

  16:02 <bluesabre> I think its largely interacting with a lot of ubuntu bugs across the board

  16:02 <bluesabre> and a dash of masochism

  16:02 <elfy> thought as much :p

  16:02 <GridCube> and 32hours a day

  16:02 <lderan> woo

  16:02 <knome> OOPS! i *am* in that team

  16:03 <elfy> lol

  16:03 <knome> apparently getting a membership in a random LP team helps as well

  16:03 <pleia2> hah

  16:03 <skellat> Yeah, lets table that until next meeting so that that idea can be fleshed out more and so that knome can figure out how he is in Ubuntu Bug Squad

  16:04 <pleia2> hehe

  16:04 <knome> hehe

  16:05 <knome> Pasi Lallinaho → Ubuntu Documentation Committers → Ubuntu Bug Control

  16:05 <knome> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol

  16:05 <knome> that's the team we're talking about, for reference

  16:05 <pleia2> cool, I'm on it too

  16:05 <knome> skellat, will you take an #action item?

  16:05 <knome> pleia2, yeah, via even more steps 16:05 * pleia2 nods

  16:06 <skellat> knome: Yep

  16:06 <knome> ta

  16:06 <micahg-work> FWIW, I think alpha 2 or 3 is important since there were toolchain changes this cycle (sorry for being a bit delayed)

  16:06 <pleia2> good to know

  16:07 <knome> micahg-work, yup, we're opting-in for one at least most probably

  16:07 <skellat> #action skellat to develop a proposal for consideration at next scheduled meeting for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs 16:07 * meetingology skellat to develop a proposal for consideration at next scheduled meeting for more structured handling of Xubuntu bugs

  16:07 <knome> micahg-work, do you think it would be good to opt-in for A2 regardless of xfce 4.12 state?

  16:07 <micahg-work> one of the two 16:07 * micahg-work looks at schedule

  16:08 <micahg-work> whichever one we can get testing for

  16:08 <knome> oki

  16:08 <knome> #topic Desktop of the Week / Featured desktop -feature on the website

  16:08 <knome> pleia2,

  16:09 <micahg-work> if 4.12 looks promising before a3, wait for that, otherwise, a2 would probably be better as that's more lead time to fix potential ssues

  16:09 <pleia2> #info we have some volunteers, but my other bullet points for requirements haven't yet been satisfied

  16:09 <knome> micahg-work, will raise that up before A2. ta

  16:09 <micahg-work> but in the end, it comes down to someone having time to coordinate the testing around the release

  16:09 <pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2013-June/008957.html

  16:09 <GridCube> what are those pleia2 ?

  16:09 <knome> micahg-work, we have elfy for that, so...

  16:09 <pleia2> GridCube: submission guidelines and submission mechanism

  16:10 <pleia2> #action pleia2 to draft submission guidelines and send to list for review 16:10 * meetingology pleia2 to draft submission guidelines and send to list for review

  16:10 <GridCube> oh, it will depend on the envirement we use to gather the submissions

  16:10 <rowboatnick> I dont understand this, why would Xubuntu, who makes a desktop that looks like X, show off how people have modified their desktop to look like Y? 16:10 * micahg-work doesn't know elfy's Summer/Winter vacation plans...

  16:10 <GridCube> but i assure you that that can be easily filtered and sorted ou

  16:10 <GridCube> t

  16:10 <pleia2> nantou: people like it and have been asking for years

  16:10 <pleia2> err rowboatnick

  16:10 <pleia2> sorry nantou

  16:10 <rowboatnick> okay

  16:10 <elfy> micahg-work: elfy has no money so has none at all

  16:10 <pleia2> defaults are nice, but lots of cool customization happens in our community

  16:11 <knome> pleia2, lol, n and r aren't even close to each other!

  16:11 <pleia2> knome: it's early

  16:11 <GridCube> rowboatnick: when you are shopping for OS having desktops its a HUGE plus

  16:11 <GridCube> people leaveing windows 8 will find xubuntu ubber awesome if they can see it

  16:12 <elfy> rowboatnick: people like seeing what others have done - the forum has to have monthly threads for the same thing

  16:12 <GridCube> because its pretty

  16:13 <micahg-work> elfy, in that case, I'd say go for alpha 2 and then alpha 3 if there are a lot of fixes/changes between the two (only 2 weeks though), alpha 2 -> beta 1 freeze is 6 weeks which is a nice chunk of time to fix stuff

  16:13 <lderan> GridCube agreed

  16:13 <knome> rewrite the timebooks?

  16:14 <knome> oh

  16:14 <elfy> micahg-work: ok - that's good

  16:14 <elfy> thanks

  16:14 <knome> nvm my comment

  16:14 <knome>

  16:14 <GridCube> we have to set up a requierement list for the desktop images

  16:14 <elfy>

  16:14 <knome> GridCube, ?

  16:15 <GridCube> like, what kind of content its not allowed, if it should show open windows (else it would simply be a wallpaper), if they have to showcase default xubuntu applications, or can show stuff like nautilus or what not

  16:15 <pleia2> GridCube: that will be part of the submission guidelines I'm writing

  16:15 <knome> aha, wallpapers you mean, not images

  16:15 <pleia2> GridCube: please offer suggestions once I send the draft to the list

  16:15 <GridCube> we want to showoff xubuntu, or linuxverse 16:16 * pleia2 nods

  16:16 <knome> anyway

  16:16 <knome> #topic Schedule next meeting

  16:17 <knome> thu, 27 june

  16:17 <elfy> suits me

  16:17 <pleia2> I'll be out of town for work

  16:17 <knome> ...and 15UTC

  16:17 <pleia2> go ahead without me

  16:17 <micahg-work> wfm

  16:17 <knome> pleia2, yeah, i was thinking about that

  16:18 <skellat> I'm okay with that scheduling

  16:18 <knome> good

  16:18 <knome> #endmeeting

Generated by MeetBot 0.1.5 (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology)