Meeting Agenda




Completed 2009 Summer of Documentation


Fall/Winter Activities


Other doc team activities


Edu FG Support


New Homepage, feedback?


Idea for bi-weekly email update.


Volunteers for colead.

Meeting Log

   1 [20:57] <starcraftman> folks Beginners team wiki FG meeting in a few minutes.
   2 [21:01] <lukjad007> Hi
   3 [21:02] <PabloRubianes> hello
   4 [21:02] <jjesse> hello
   5 [21:03] <Rocket2DMn> yo
   6 [21:03] <duanedesign> better, not so many people in #ubuntu-docs
   7 [21:03] <duanedesign> :p
   8 [21:03] <starcraftman> Hey guys, hmmm, maybe wait a few more minutes for any late comers. I shall much on some fresh oatmeal cookies meanwhile.
   9 [21:04] <jjesse> ah i always get confused on the difference between #kde-docs and #ubuntu-doc :)
  10 [21:04] <Rocket2DMn> lol yeah
  11 [21:05] <drs305> I only came for the cake!
  12 [21:05] <jjesse> theres cake?
  13 [21:05] <starcraftman> drs305: what? Who said anything about cake?
  14 [21:05] <duanedesign> Kashi makes a good oatmeal raisin cookie
  15 [21:05] <drs305> starcraftman: You did, yesterday. Check the logs!
  16 [21:05] <Rocket2DMn> i heard there would be an open bar
  17 [21:05] <duanedesign> \o/
  18 [21:06]  * drs305 Admits it might have been only virtual cake ...
  19 [21:06] <starcraftman> drs305: Oh right. Lemme just go fetch it.
  20 [21:06] <PabloRubianes> drs305: any cake is good!
  21 [21:06] <Rocket2DMn> ok starcraftman , let's do this
  22 [21:07] <Rocket2DMn> want me to begin starcraftman ?
  23 [21:07] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Sure thing. Your up first on agenda. We go by list.
  24 [21:07] <Rocket2DMn> Ok guys, so we finished the Summer of Documentation a few weeks ago, you can see the results here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki/SoD2009
  25 [21:08] <Rocket2DMn> Thank you all for your efforts and excellent work!
  26 [21:08] <starcraftman> hear hear, was a good productive effort :).
  27 [21:08] <Rocket2DMn> of course, that doesn't mean that we stop doing work, which leads to the next agenda item: Fall/Winter Activities
  28 [21:09] <Rocket2DMn> As of right now there is nothing we have organized, but wiki work will continue, and anybody interested in system documentation can talk to me or any doc-team member for that matter
  29 [21:09] <Rocket2DMn> Karmic is due out in a few days, so the Wiki will have a bunch of stuff that needs to be updated
  30 [21:10] <Rocket2DMn> if you have any pages that you "maintain", have a look at them soon once you have Karmic up and running and see if anything needs to be changed
  31 [21:10] <lukjad007> o/
  32 [21:10] <Rocket2DMn> go for it lukjad007
  33 [21:10] <lukjad007> If we are not immediately upgrading to karmic, what should we do in the meantime?
  34 [21:11] <starcraftman> lukjad007: virtualbox? Clean up tags? Orphan pages? Lots of things :)
  35 [21:11] <Rocket2DMn> well lukjad007 , nobody owns wiki pages, you don't have ultimate responsibility for them since it's a community effort
  36 [21:11] <Rocket2DMn> You can install in a VM, or ask somebody to review the page for you to see if anythin actually has changed
  37 [21:11] <lukjad007> starcraftman Good points, just asking for suggestions.
  38 [21:12] <Rocket2DMn> otherwise, just wait and have a look after you do upgrade, in that time, perhaps somebody else will step forward and update the page
  39 [21:12] <drs305> o/
  40 [21:12] <Rocket2DMn> oterhwise, yes, there are other tasks :)
  41 [21:12] <Rocket2DMn> go ahead drs305
  42 [21:13] <drs305> Graphics w/ backgrounds still use LTS (Hardy)?
  43 [21:13] <Rocket2DMn> drs305, if screenshots already exist on pages and are still applicable, then you can keep the old ones.  If things have changed, then new screenshots are needed
  44 [21:14] <Rocket2DMn> that may require pages to be refactored to support older and newer versions
  45 [21:14] <Rocket2DMn> if you are doing fresh screenshots, use the latest release
  46 [21:14] <drs305> Ok, but I'm NOT using any with that yellow background!
  47 [21:14] <drs305> Ok.
  48 [21:15] <Rocket2DMn> haha, drs305 if the material is the same between Hardy and Karmic, you can use Hardy :)
  49 [21:15] <drs305> ty
  50 [21:15] <starcraftman> drs305: or just take screenshots limited to the window of the program, avoids background.
  51 [21:15] <Rocket2DMn> I think the most important thing is that you use the default theme, the background image isn't as important
  52 [21:15] <drs305> That's what I normally do starcraftman
  53 [21:16] <starcraftman> drs305: roger, just noting.
  54 [21:16] <Rocket2DMn> Any other questions?
  55 [21:17] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, next agenda item is Other doc team activities
  56 [21:17] <Rocket2DMn> I don't think anything out of the ordinary is going on
  57 [21:17] <Rocket2DMn> You can always see Doc Team wiki tasks here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Wiki/Tasks
  58 [21:17] <duanedesign> we are still using https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development ?
  59 [21:17] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, yeah, for internal usage.  At some point I need to put something together for the whole doc team to use, at mdke's request
  60 [21:18] <Rocket2DMn> at that time we'll migrate
  61 [21:18] <Rocket2DMn> System documentation also has tasks here - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks
  62 [21:18] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Sounds good. Still gonna be a system based on the wiki though?
  63 [21:18] <Rocket2DMn> so if anybody is interested in writing material from scratch, there are some options there
  64 [21:19] <Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, yes
  65 [21:19] <starcraftman> I'd just like to note, these links all listed under the Current Tasks section of the homepage :)
  66 [21:19] <Rocket2DMn> starcraftman, in fact, it may be a good idea to just give a link to the doc team list so we don't duplicate material
  67 [21:19] <lukjad007> afk, brb.
  68 [21:20] <Rocket2DMn> it would help us integrate even better with the doc team
  69 [21:20] <Rocket2DMn> If anybody has suggestions or ideas for tasks or improvements in any way, please don't hesitate to bring them forward to the doc team directly
  70 [21:20] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Sure thing. If ya need a hand on new track system, long as I'm around I'll try and help.
  71 [21:21] <Rocket2DMn> any questions about tasks?
  72 [21:21] <Rocket2DMn> sure thing starcraftman
  73 [21:21] <duanedesign> what is this doc team list?
  74 [21:22] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, the doc team mailing list is here - https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
  75 [21:22] <starcraftman> duanedesign: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki#Joining%20the%20Teams
  76 [21:22] <Rocket2DMn> that is their primary form of communication since IRC isn't as popular as it is with the BT
  77 [21:22] <starcraftman> Ah, rats, Rocket2DMn by 5 seconds.
  78 [21:22] <duanedesign> oh ok the ,ailing list
  79 [21:22] <duanedesign> *mailing
  80 [21:23] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, well then my final announcement today is this: I am stepping down from the lead position in the Wiki FG and handing over leadership to starcraftman .  It's been a year and a half since we formed the FG, and I'd like to give somebody else a chance, as well as free up some time for myself
  81 [21:24]  * starcraftman dons requisite crown ready to become a tyrant.
  82 [21:24] <Rocket2DMn> A handful of Wiki FG members spoke a couple of weeks ago and everybody supported him for leadership
  83 [21:24] <Rocket2DMn> I believe he is looking for a co-lead as well, that is further down on the agenda
  84 [21:24] <drs305> All hail the RocketMan! Well done!
  85 [21:24] <Rocket2DMn> I'll still be around of course :)
  86 [21:25] <Rocket2DMn> thanks drs305 , i can't believe it's been as long as it has
  87 [21:25]  * PabloRubianes claps!!
  88 [21:25] <Rocket2DMn> thank you thank you, i accept donations via check or paypal
  89 [21:25] <Rocket2DMn> ;)
  90 [21:25] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: ya deserve the break, former boss. Take it easy and relax to some DT :)
  91 [21:25] <duanedesign> I have been reADINg the doc team mailing list rather religiously lately interested in any doc team activities at UDS
  92 [21:25] <drs305> Seriously.  Great job putting the team together and all the work you did.
  93 [21:26] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, are you going to UDS?
  94 [21:26] <drs305> Now The king is dead. Long live the king. All hail starcraftman
  95 [21:26] <duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: That is the plan
  96 [21:26] <duanedesign> :)
  97 [21:26] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, very cool dude, there was an email thread about UDS which I think you saw.  Pics or it didn't happen!
  98 [21:26] <starcraftman> drs305: You have a bright future. :)
  99 [21:27] <drs305> It's NEVER too early to suck up.
 100 [21:27] <Rocket2DMn> lol ok guys, let's keep moving so we don't drag this out
 101 [21:27] <Rocket2DMn> Saj0577, are you here?
 102 [21:28] <starcraftman> duanedesign: I wish I could go, they need to hold one near Montreal again.
 103 [21:28] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: nope, I was told PabloRubianes filling in for edu.
 104 [21:28] <PabloRubianes> Saj0577 won't be here... some problems with a friend... he was taking him to hospital...
 105 [21:28] <duanedesign> I am lucky it is in Dallas 4 hours from me
 106 [21:28] <starcraftman> duanedesign: rubbing it in eh? You going far, not so much...
 107 [21:28] <Rocket2DMn> ok PabloRubianes , then the floor is yours, enlighten us as to what is happening with edu FG and it's effec ton the Wiki FG
 108 [21:28] <duanedesign> I am working on a wiki page(s) for Launchpad. This is a project with me and Pablo right now
 109 [21:29] <duanedesign> sorry go ahead PabloRubianes
 110 [21:29] <PabloRubianes> duanedesign just tell everything ;-)
 111 [21:29] <duanedesign> :x
 112 [21:30] <PabloRubianes> now we are working on google docs... and we are goona use that material for launchpad wiki page, tutorials for edu FG, and for the launchpad FG
 113 [21:31] <PabloRubianes> I imagine that Saj0577 was trying to find more people to help with the job
 114 [21:32] <duanedesign> yes I just did the 'getting started' section and Bodhi is working on a packaging blog post which i am hoping to use :)
 115 [21:32] <PabloRubianes> because this topic could be a inter FG work
 116 [21:33] <duanedesign> But Launchpad is a fairly complex with a lot of tools. The result will be used between the Ubuntu wiki and the Education FG
 117 [21:33] <Rocket2DMn> Don't forget to integrate with existing resources when working on any kind of documentation.
 118 [21:33] <starcraftman> PabloRubianes: hmmm, didn't he want to talk about getting mentors from the FG to follow people after they pass through new Wiki course he was planning? I could be wrong, that's what told me I think.
 119 [21:34] <duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: good point. Their is a lot already donee on the Launchpad wiki
 120 [21:35] <duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: in a case like that is it better, in your opinion, to link to LP or duplicate the documentation w/ attribution
 121 [21:35] <PabloRubianes> starcraftman: i don't know that Saj0577 ask me in a rush to be here...
 122 [21:36] <PabloRubianes> starcraftman: he told me you could explain...
 123 [21:36] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, better to link rather than to duplicate material.  That means if the original documentaiton changes, you don' thave to keep up
 124 [21:36] <starcraftman> PabloRubianes: ah, hmmm, lemme get my logs then, think he explained it quite well on em.
 125 [21:36] <Rocket2DMn> if the exisitng documentation is incorrect, you should alert the maintainer
 126 [21:36] <Rocket2DMn> if it's a wiki page that is wrong, you can update it yourself
 127 [21:37] <duanedesign> Rocket2DMn: good point. Launchpad does have a Doc Team :)
 128 [21:37] <Rocket2DMn> yeah, you can file bugs against LP itself
 129 [21:38] <duanedesign> Also Launchpad has a few screencasts up on youtube
 130 [21:38] <duanedesign> I thought these were helpfull as I like screencasts.ubuntu.comm
 131 [21:38] <duanedesign> does antone know the status of the screencast team
 132 [21:39] <duanedesign> anyone*
 133 [21:39] <duanedesign> I thought at one point it was part of the doc team
 134 [21:39] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, you should ping pleia2 , she might know
 135 [21:39] <duanedesign> kk
 136 [21:39] <starcraft-ntbk> PabloRubianes: hurrah, I have the logs.
 137 [21:40] <starcraft-ntbk> lp discussion done?
 138 [21:40] <PabloRubianes> that's great
 139 [21:42] <starcraft-ntbk> well from silence, I assume convo done, so back on topic.
 140 [21:42] <starcraft-ntbk> Saj0577's proposal > http://pastebin.com/m521f705a
 141 [21:42] <starcraft-ntbk> Not too much reading.
 142 [21:43]  * starcraftman waits for people to read and turns futurama on.
 143 [21:44] <Rocket2DMn> It sounds like not much is needed from our end in this.
 144 [21:44] <Rocket2DMn> If the Edu FG ends up with users who are interested in documentation, they get sent our way
 145 [21:44] <Rocket2DMn> we're more or less a back door direct to the ubuntu doc team
 146 [21:44] <Rocket2DMn> We are happy to help people learn how to write documentation
 147 [21:45] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: aye, from my understand intention was to set up some sort of course they give to new prospects and then we can look over em. Saves us some question answering I suppose.
 148 [21:46] <Rocket2DMn> starcraft-ntbk, I think your rewrite of the Wiki FG page handles that pretty well, there is a section specifically for new users which includes links to getting started with the wiki
 149 [21:47] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: hehe, thanks. I tried to make it simple. I'm with ya on your points, I don't mind answering questions, and if others wanna answer too, all the better :).
 150 [21:47] <Rocket2DMn> We have found in the past that having a prolonged mentor/mentee system doesn't work that well in a distributed development environment - it is really up to the new person to ask questions and have others review their work
 151 [21:48] <Rocket2DMn> that means that the user needs to be active in seeking advice and getting involved.  However, that's not to say that providing valuable information up front is not important.  One of the biggest problems some users have is knowing WHERE to get help/support
 152 [21:48] <Rocket2DMn> It sounds like the Edu FG's goal is to make it easier for people to get involved in different areas by knowing where the knowledge base is
 153 [21:49] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: indeed, I guess so. In any event, what Saj0577 is asking isn't too different from way we operate now with new folks I suppose so no problem.
 154 [21:50] <starcraftman> Maybe once he flushes it out a bit more we'll get better idea.
 155 [21:50] <starcraftman> I'm not privy to all his ideas, so maybe he had more than what was in my logs.
 156 [21:51] <Rocket2DMn> starcraft-ntbk, it sounds like they act as traffic cops and a GPS - they can direct users in where to go in order to get involved, and where to get the initial information from
 157 [21:51] <Rocket2DMn> perhaps they also help those seeking to contribute in finding what they are actually interested in doing
 158 [21:52] <Rocket2DMn> in any case, i think we need more information, so let's move on and we can discuss it more later when Saj0577 gets back
 159 [21:52] <starcraftman> indeed, before we move on, we still got other folks right? Us two been only ones talking!
 160 [21:53]  * starcraftman pokes drs305 and nhasian who been particularly quiet.
 161 [21:53] <drs305> I'm reading, but no inputs.
 162 [21:53] <Rocket2DMn> lukjad007, duanedesign , you still with us, too?
 163 [21:53] <duanedesign> My understanding of the Edu FG was that it was to handle..
 164 [21:54] <starcraftman> Well you guys say something once and a while, just so we know ya there. :)
 165 [21:54] <duanedesign> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning    How to Develop    How to spread
 166 [21:55] <lukjad007> yes
 167 [21:55] <Rocket2DMn> duanedesign, i think that is part of what they were doing, but they are trying to let that be a separate project now
 168 [21:55] <Rocket2DMn> let's move on with our agenda
 169 [21:55] <duanedesign> ohhhh,ok
 170 [21:56] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: roger, ok, all mine.
 171 [21:56] <starcraftman> Well first thing is new page as was already mentioned and linky > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
 172 [21:57] <starcraftman> Just wanted some feedback on new layout, and people might wanna look over it again much improved organization wise. :)
 173 [21:58] <drs305> I think I've already said I like it.  ... repeats himself.
 174 [21:58] <drs305> Very nice look.
 175 [21:59] <Rocket2DMn> I think it looks good, definitely more user friendly than it was before
 176 [22:01] <starcraftman> K, well moving on. I was wanting to be sure everyones on the new BT mail list, uptake was a little slow (per nhandlers numbers), and I was thinking of maybe having a lil informal newletter once in a while.
 177 [22:02] <starcraftman> Newletter go out by email to bounce off our bt list and it'd maybe detail certain projects to work on for a period, stuff folks could pick up. Just a thought, we don't seem to use the bt list so often.
 178 [22:02] <Rocket2DMn> I like that idea, it's a good way to keep an open dialog between meetings (which only happen a few times a year)
 179 [22:03] <duanedesign> starcraftman: good idea. I have implemented a newsletter awhile back with OKlahoma LoCo and it helps with momentum, keeping people excited about projects and they are informative
 180 [22:04] <ZachK_> hello?
 181 [22:05] <starcraftman> duanedesign: thanks. I'll look into it, that was about what I hoped. Probably not too much, just to keep people working on pages. Maybe have some special weeks where we do one task or other. Also, not too often, maybe every 2nd week or 3rd, depending how much going on.
 182 [22:05] <ZachK_> hi team
 183 [22:06] <Rocket2DMn> hey ZachK_ , we're finishing up a Wiki FG meeting - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups/Wiki
 184 [22:07] <starcraftman> Well, I guess that's about it for that topic, I'll either write it up or co-lead which leads to last topic!
 185 [22:07] <duanedesign> starcraftman: just an idea we might think about all the FG pitching in on one every so often.
 186 [22:07] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn, starcraftman just linked me the pages
 187 [22:07] <starcraftman> duanedesign: one page?
 188 [22:08] <duanedesign> starcraftman: i would hate for it to get to long and discourage people from reading it is the major drawback. I guess that would depend on the amount of info thought necessary by each group
 189 [22:09] <ZachK_> Rocket2DMn, you're stepping down?!?!!?
 190 [22:09] <duanedesign> and not every group would have something to contribute every few weeks
 191 [22:09] <Rocket2DMn> ZachK_, yes
 192 [22:10] <duanedesign> starcraftman: I always like reading the team reports from all the different teams to see what is going on
 193 [22:10] <duanedesign> something like that from the FG would be neat
 194 [22:10] <starcraftman> duanedesign: ahhhh, I see, a unified newsletter ya mean. I gotcha, sounds good, and your right, could be a sort of rolling thing since not everyone has something going on every week.
 195 [22:11] <Rocket2DMn> ok, well let's start with an email for ourselves, and if other FGs want to try something similar, that is fine.  Discussion about implementing a unified email between FGs is material for a BT meeting discussion
 196 [22:11] <starcraftman> Will have to bring it up at our regular team meeting on 4TH.
 197 [22:11] <Rocket2DMn> ^5 starcraftman , we're on the same page
 198 [22:11] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Roger, just what I was saying. An intriguing idea. I Shall put it on docket.
 199 [22:12] <starcraftman> So moving to last topic!
 200 [22:13]  * ZachK_ claps
 201 [22:13] <starcraftman> I'm thinking on a co-lead and I want to know who would be interested in assisting with whatever (probably most often when I'm not available or other tasks to assist). Nothing too glorious. So volunteers?
 202 [22:14] <Rocket2DMn> i would nominate drs305 and lukjad007 as candidates
 203 [22:14]  * ZachK_ volunteers of course
 204 [22:15] <lukjad007> Heehee
 205 [22:15] <drs305> Just got called to work. lukjad007 would be my recommendation. Talk to you all later. Bye.
 206 [22:15] <lukjad007> Later drs305
 207 [22:15] <ZachK_> he left pretty fast
 208 [22:15] <starcraftman> and that was a quick departure.
 209 [22:15] <Rocket2DMn> work on a saturday, what a pity
 210 [22:15] <lukjad007> Yeahh
 211 [22:15] <starcraftman> Rocket2DMn: Worse than exams on Saturday!
 212 [22:16] <ZachK_> haha
 213 [22:16] <starcraftman> lukjad007: So you'd be interested? I put ya and zack down for consideration.
 214 [22:16] <ZachK_> So.......
 215 [22:16] <lukjad007> I would be interested, yes
 216 [22:16] <starcraftman> duanedesign: No thoughts?
 217 [22:16] <ZachK_> nice
 218 [22:16] <duanedesign> lol
 219 [22:17] <ZachK_> be back gents...gotta eat my chicken/bacon/and ranch sandwhich
 220 [22:17] <duanedesign> I think lukjad007 has shown a definite amount of dedication over time making hima good candidate
 221 [22:17] <duanedesign> ZachK_: me hungry too
 222 [22:17] <starcraftman> ZachK_: later, enjoy.
 223 [22:17] <ZachK_> k
 224 [22:17] <ZachK_> starcraftman, i expect to hear results? when i get back
 225 [22:18] <starcraftman> Well I guess I only got two candidates atm, unless maybe I pull someone unexpected out of hat. I shall deliberate!
 226 [22:19]  * ZachK_ crosses fingers
 227 [22:19] <starcraftman> Shouldn't be too long, I guess that's end of meeting unless anyone have any last minute items?
 228 [22:19] <ZachK_> ok i'm on lunch
 229 [22:20] <starcraftman> K, well I guess /endmeeting

BeginnersTeam/Meetings/WikiFG/20091024 (last edited 2009-10-25 03:09:54 by starcraft.man)