Sunday, January 25th, 2009, 7:00pm (1900) PST


  1. 8.04.2 released
    1. Includes all updates since 8.04 release.
    2. Change list at HardyReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/8.04.2

    3. Problem with vim-tiny: version on server and alternate CDs is from hardy-proposed, not hardy-updates.
    4. Ubuntu 8.04.2 is what we will be burning for hardy at SCaLE.
    5. Current Hardy users can just apt-get upgrade; they don't need to get a new CD or change their sources.list.
  2. SCaLE

    1. Booth tables are 6ft x 24in
    2. Will be participating in GlobalBugJam using a separate room upstairs (same room as for presentations), which theoretically has wireless internet access.

    3. Yasumoto is trying to find a projector; troyready has one at home we can use if necessary.
    4. Equipment, demo computers, etc. can sit in the separate room when not needed, then go to overnight storage (near the Westin)
    5. Presentations:
      1. Two GBJ presentations by Yasumoto: "How to set up a bug jam", "how to work with bugs"
      2. Potential presentation topics: running games in WINE, installing with Wubi, Ubiquity, EC2, customizing Ubuntu,
    6. Going to have 32-bit CDs of the various Ubuntu flavors on-hand, and will burn 64-bit CDs on demand. Have both Hardy and Intrepid CDs.
    7. Canonical will also have a booth at SCaLE; we should know specifics sometime next week.

Original Agenda

  1. 8.04.2 released!
  2. SCaLE

    1. We *are* participating in GlobalBugJam while at SCaLE. Room #9

      • We will have "how to do bugwork" presentations
      • We will have "how to run a bugjam" presentations
    2. Our presentations on Ubuntu topics will be interleaved with the bugjam stuff in the same room.
      • We need to come up with a list of potential topics


19:12 < Flannel> Alright, welcome everyone to today's meeting.  Our agenda is almost entirely taken up with SCaLE stuff (and I'll spare the spam/details).  But it's available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/09January25
19:12 < nhaines> Gareth: pong!
19:12 < Flannel> If anyone has anything to add, (topic wise) feel free to do so at any time.  If you've got stuff to add as part of the discussions on various topics, feel free to interject when those topics are ... topical.
19:13 < Gareth> nhaines: hey.  Ilan said you had a question about the size of the table in your booth?
19:13 < Flannel> Gareth: Yeah, we did.  Do you know how wide they are?
19:13 < Flannel> They're six feet long, but are the 24 or 30 inches wide?
19:14 < Gareth> 24" wide
19:14 < Flannel> Gareth: Thats what I thought.  Thanks.
19:14 < Gareth> np
19:15 < Flannel> Alright, so, the first thing on our agenda for this evening is a little PSA:
19:15 < Flannel> The second point release for Hardy is now available.  8.04.2
19:15 < nhaines> Welcome, troy.  :)
19:15 < Flannel> The majority (if not all) of the changes are just newer packages (the same ones in the repos), that make it so you don't have as many updates after a fresh install
19:16 < troyready> nhaines: thanks; howdy!
19:16 < Flannel> One 'bug' so far is that vim-tiny is a newer version than in the repos (it's the -proposed version), so be aware of things like that.  The issue will go away once the -propsed version gets into -updates
19:17 < Flannel> I'm not really sure how/why that happened, and it's only on the server and alternate CDs.  But the easiest way to fix it is to remove the CD repository, remove the offending packages, and then reinstall (from the interblags)
19:17 < Flannel> reinstall those packages, that is.
19:17 < rww> The change-summary for 8.04.1 > 8.04.2 is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/8.04.2
19:17  * rww found that useful
19:18 < nhaines> Nice link, rww.
19:18 < Flannel> Anyone else have questions/comments/* about point releases?
19:18 < sn9> they are good
19:18 < nhaines> Ubuntu 8.04.2 is what we will be burning for hardy at SCaLE.
19:19 < rww> If you already have an 8.04 or 8.04.1 CD, you can just use that and apt-get upgrade, right?
19:19 < Flannel> Right.  There's no reason not to give out the most recent point releases.
19:19 < erichammond> So for folks currently running Ubuntu 8.04, the standard update/upgrade would be advisable?
19:19 < Flannel> Just like normal, yeah.
19:19 < erichammond> :)
19:19 < nhaines> Yes, you'll get an identical system.
19:19 < Flannel> There's *no* reason to reinstall if you've already got Hardy installed.
19:19 < nhaines> But with less hassle.  :)
19:19 < rww> Okay, so it's like Debian's point releases. Figured :)
19:19 < sn9> rww: dist-upgrade, preferably
19:19 < Flannel> 8.04.2 just updates the packages, so theres fewer to upgrade from the internet after install
19:20 < nhaines> dist-upgrade won't be necessary.
19:20 < Flannel> nhaines: There's a new kernel version, so yes
19:20 < erichammond> Is there any way to point sources.list to a point release days afterwards when a number of packages have been updated?
19:20 < Flannel> We can have a sidebar on update/upgrade/dist-upgrade if anyone would like ;)
19:20 < Flannel> erichammond: You don't need to change your sources.list at all
19:20 < sn9> erichammond: not really
19:21 < erichammond> I.e., if I wanted to build an image with exactly 8.04.2 without newer versions of things that may have been released later?
19:21 < erichammond> ok
19:21 < Flannel> The point releases are *only* for installation media.
19:21 < Flannel> erichammond: Just download the new ISOs
19:21 < Flannel> All of the old isos have been upgraded on the mirrors (http://releases.ubuntu.com/8.04/ has 8.04.2)
19:21 < erichammond> I'm building Amazon EC2 images and thought it might be nice to get an exact 8.04.2 image, but it uses the standard repositories.
19:21 < erichammond> not ISOs.
19:22 < Flannel> erichammond: you could use the alternate CD as a repository
19:22 < Flannel> (and remove the internet sources)
19:22 < erichammond> Flannel: cool idea :)
19:23 < Flannel> Any other questions?
19:23 < Flannel> Alright.  So, moving on to the SCaLE stuff.
19:23 < Flannel> For those of you who haven't heard, we *are* also participating in GBJ at SCaLE.
19:24 < Flannel> We'll have a separate room (upstairs) and we'll be doing it all day both days.  With that same room (likely) being used for our presentations we were planning on giving.
19:24 < nhaines> So we definitely need computers for that room.  :)
19:24 < Flannel> Hmmmm
19:24 < sn9> nhaines: connectivity in those rooms is an issue, iirc
19:24 < Flannel> That is something I hadn't thought about.
19:25 < Flannel> Yasumoto: Did that cross your mind?
19:25 < nhaines> Hopefully we can encourage BYOC.
19:26 < sn9> is projector availability confirmed?
19:26 < nhaines> Yes.
19:26 < nhaines> There is no projector availability.
19:26 < sn9> yes we have no banana
19:26 < Flannel> Yasumoto is trying to round one up, but if anyone else already has access to one...
19:26 < jjpeters> there's a chance i can bring one, will look into it tomorrow
19:27 < Gareth> fyi, regarding connectivity in the room you guys will have for BUG Jam...there will be wireless available.
19:27 < Yasumoto> yeah, It'll probably be mainly byoc
19:27 < Flannel> Thanks for the reassurance Gareth
19:27 < troyready> i've got a spare 4:3 home theater one, but I think it's relatively low lumens
19:27 < Yasumoto> if I can pull some spare computers from chapman, I will
19:28 < nhaines> troyready: might be a good backup plan.
19:28 < Flannel> Yasumoto: We were planning on doing two kinds of formal bug jam presentations right?
19:28 < Flannel> Oh!
19:28 < Flannel> before Joe answers that,
19:28 < sn9> Gareth: for the love of whatever passes for divinity in the Church of Emacs, noooooooooo!
19:28 < Yasumoto> sn9: huh?
19:28 < Flannel> I want to point out that now that we have that room, we've got that room, which means all the stuff we bring won't need to fit in our booth.  So we can take the "If in doubt, bring it" mind set.
19:28 < sn9> last year, all the XO's upstairs kept nuking all the wifi
19:29 < Flannel> Also, we *do* have overnight, secure, storage available nearby the Westin
19:29 < troyready> i'll keep it in a safe place
19:29 < Gareth> sn9: we've fixed that :)
19:29 < sn9> Gareth: oh?
19:30 < nhaines> Gareth: good to hear, because I'm brining two.  ;)
19:30 < Gareth> yessir
19:30 < Flannel> So it can sit in the room all day (where there'll be someone) and then can sit in a secure storage location overnight.
19:30 < Flannel> That goes for all demo computers, etc etc
19:30 < Flannel> The only caveat is it'd be nice to have a manifest a few days before SCaLE for the overnight storage
19:31 < Flannel> Now that I've totally sidetracked us, Yasumoto, we're planning on having two separate bugjammy presentations?
19:32 < Yasumoto> yeah
19:33 < Yasumoto> one will be for people interested in "How to set up a bug jam"
19:33 < Yasumoto> hopefully spreading the word around
19:33 < Yasumoto> and the other will be more about "how to work with bugs"
19:34 < Yasumoto> specifically oriented toward ubuntu/launchpad
19:35 < nhaines> I hope that we're inviting anyone who wants to do any bug triaging for any project to our room.
19:35 < Yasumoto> I'd like to see some people come forward to give these
19:35 < Yasumoto> absolutely
19:35 < Yasumoto> it's just that I'm not to familiar with other bug trackers
19:36 < Yasumoto> I mean technically, I can go over gnome and mozilla as well, but that'd be a bit off-topic, and probably more for anyone in particular that was interested
19:37 < Yasumoto> for now, I think the rough schedule will be: 1)an hour or so of setup/getting prepared for the day
19:37 < nhaines> Yasumoto: I'll listen to your presentation and I can perform it later.
19:37 < Yasumoto> 2) "How to work on bugs" followed by a couple hours of work
19:38 < Yasumoto> then 3) "Setting up a bugjam" with more jamming
19:38 < Yasumoto> in theory, I think it'd be cool to have guitar hero for some breaktime
19:38 < Yasumoto> but that's up to debate
19:38 < Flannel> Haha
19:38 < Yasumoto> hopefully we'll get jjpeters and Flannel up there again
19:38 < nhaines> That's a bit of a LoCo tradition by now.  :)
19:38 < sn9> Yasumoto: guitar hero is not open source ;)
19:39 < Flannel> Yasumoto: We also want to sneak in some Ubuntu topics.  Perhaps right before you give the official talks.
19:39 < nhaines> Well, we could always do Frets on Fire.
19:39 < Gareth> Frets on Fire will be at SCALE :)
19:39 < Yasumoto> yeah, and throughout the day, we can focus on different areas of ubuntu
19:39 < Flannel> That way theyre the least distrubing to the people doing the bugjam, and maybe a few of them will stick around.
19:39  * Gareth lurks
19:39 < Yasumoto> Gareth: :)
19:39 < troyready> Good point. FoF it is.
19:40 < Yasumoto> maybe a presentation every hour or two hours might be nice
19:40 < Yasumoto> and definitely some bug-walk throughs this time
19:41 < sn9> looks like sourceforge e-mail addresses now get spam without explanation
19:41 < Flannel> Yasumoto: Every hour seems excessive.  Every two hours may be prudent.  And if we schedule them right, we may be able to snag people in between the sessions
19:41 < Flannel> (in the breaks)
19:41 < jbermudes> sounds good
19:42 < Flannel> Depending on how long it ends up being
19:42 < Yasumoto> Flannel: sounds like a plan
19:42 < Yasumoto> yeah
19:42 < nhaines> Yeah, presentations require a bit of preparation.
19:42 < nhaines> Even if only mental.  ;)
19:42 < jbermudes> yasumoto, lets do one on running games in wine, valve stuff, etc.
19:42 < Flannel> nhaines: Especially if we're trying to put Ubuntu ones in between.
19:42 < Yasumoto> yeah, exactlu
19:42 < Yasumoto> jbermudes: that's actually a great idea
19:42 < Flannel> Anyone else have bugjam specific questions/comments/whatever?
19:43 < Flannel> If not, we'll move on to topics for presentations.
19:43 < sn9> we don't need no raid, let the sick sucker crawl!
19:43 < Flannel> actually, since that may run long... before that I want to ask what CDs we want to make available at SCaLE?
19:44 < rww> Are we gonna encourage people participating in the bug jam to hang out in this channel? I haven't looked into GBJ stuff, so I don't know how IRC communication fits into it.
19:44 < Flannel> Do we want Hardy or Intrepid to be default?
19:44 < Yasumoto> rww: totally
19:44 < Flannel> rww: Oh, we could.
19:44 < Flannel> rww: They also have -bugs
19:44 < Yasumoto> I'd say intrepid to be the default
19:44 < nhaines> Let's have Intrepid bed default so they can upgrade to jaunty.
19:44 < Flannel> which gets very busy around GBJs
19:44 < troyready> agreed
19:44 < nhaines> Let's also have hardy readily available.
19:44 < sn9> i second intrepid
19:45 < Flannel> Note:  We can have everything available in case someone wants something esoteric, but what we're deciding now is what we have on hand
19:45 < Yasumoto> 8.04 (gnome and server) and 8.10(gnome, kde, server)?
19:45 < Flannel> Edubuntu is a big hit, especially due to OSSIE
19:45 < Flannel> This time around it will piggyback on Ubuntu
19:45 < nhaines> Yes, we must have Edubuntu available.
19:46 < Flannel> Do we just want to stick with 32bit?
19:46 < jbermudes> Flannel, is this about which ISO files to have?
19:46 < Flannel> (again, this isjust what we have on hand, not special requests)
19:46 < nhaines> Yes, let's have 64-bit available but only on request.
19:46 < Flannel> jbermudes: No, just what we have a store of.
19:46 < Flannel> jbermudes: we'll have "everything" current in ISO form
19:46 < jbermudes> maybe a few 64-bits, but that's more of a special request kind of thing
19:47 < Flannel> So, All four desktop environments (with appropriate percentages of each), in Intrepid, 32bit?
19:47 < sn9> 64 bits on hand is a must, i say
19:48 < Flannel> sn9: For handing out upon request?  or for burning then handing out?
19:48 < sn9> Flannel: both
19:48 < Flannel> Anyone else have input on it?
19:48 < erichammond> Even if 64-bits aren't in high demand, it's kind of cool to show they are available.
19:49 < Flannel> So, people know to ask for it? or what?
19:49 < erichammond> to show Ubuntu is a serious OS :)
19:49 < Flannel> Ah.  Alright, so... token 64bit CDs for display purposes ;)
19:49 < nhaines> I disagree.  We can do one or two 64-bit CDs, but I don't think they're really very visible, which ones are there.
19:50 < sn9> burn a new 64 bit as soon as one is given
19:50 < Flannel> I'm hesitant about 64bit, mostly because I worry someone will think they have 64bit and then actually wont, etc
19:50 < erichammond> I'm a fan of fewer choices, especially for folks who have no clue and are just swinging by the booth to pick up something "Ubuntu".
19:50 < sn9> ask them to show their machine
19:51 < Flannel> sn9: I know when I go to SCaLE, I carry my desktop with me.
19:51 < rww> Most people simply don't need 64-bit Ubuntu. It'd be nice to have a few around, but I really don't think you'll need that much. (And I say that as a 64-bit Ubuntu user ;) )
19:51 < sn9> 64 bits shows up in cpuinfo flags as "lm"
19:51 < jbermudes> doesn't 32 bit work on 64-bit anyway, isn't there a legacy mode?
19:51 < erichammond> Even a choice between Gnome and KDE is going to make a Windows person think it's complicated.
19:51 < Flannel> jbermudes: Yeah
19:51 < rww> jbermudes: 32-bit Ubuntu works fine on AMD64 processors, yeah.
19:51 < sn9> the need for 64 bis == more than 2G ram
19:51 < sn9> *bits
19:51 < jbermudes> So then just have 64bit be purely special request
19:52 < Yasumoto> jbermudes++
19:52 < jbermudes> maybe we can make a sign with what we have if people want special stuff
19:52 < jbermudes> almost like a menu at a store, heh
19:52 < Flannel> jbermudes: I've got a whiteboard that I'm not going to forget this time, yes.
19:52 < Flannel> It'll also have info on the presentations
19:52 < nhaines> Slideshow computer can mention our selections.  :)
19:53 < erichammond> Proposal: Have large stacks of 32-bit Ubuntu Intrepid desktop with a panel showing the different other options available under the desk or to burn.
19:53 < jbermudes> maybe yasumoto and I can print something big with our school's ginormous large-format color printer
19:53 < Yasumoto> jbermudes: I didn't even think of that
19:53 < Yasumoto> that's a great idea
19:53 < jbermudes> yay
19:54 < Flannel> Alright, so... I think that's settled.  We'll keep at least one 64bit around, but by default hand out 32bit desktop [all flavors] (Ubuntu by default)
19:54 < nhaines> And featuring intrepid.
19:54 < Flannel> Oh right
19:55 < Flannel> So, with that settled, What sorts of presentation topics might we want to have?
19:55 < Yasumoto> wine+games like jess mentioned :)
19:55 < Flannel> I've heard (from last time) Installing with Wubi, Ubiquity, EC2
19:56 < Flannel> Although, erichammond, are you moving the EC2 stuff to a BoF?
19:56 < erichammond> There is an EC2 BOF Saturday night which will not be a tutorial or workshop, but rather just discussions among folks who use or are interested in using EC2.
19:56 < Flannel> These topics should be "new user" friendly.  The idea is to bring new people into Ubuntu (show them how easy it is, etc)
19:57 < Flannel> (although that doesn't mean we can't have an advanced one, just keep that goal in mind)
19:57 < erichammond> I have also signed up for an EC2 presentation in the lab, though Tim is asking to move me from a prime Sat afternoon timeslot to later on Sunday (when everybody is heading home) :)
19:58 < nhaines> erichammond: too bad.  :)  Oh well, that's when I'm speaking too.
19:59 < erichammond> I'm open to doing a short demo (not training) showing that you can run an Ubuntu desktop on Amazon EC2 with near real-time interactivity.  The local computer can be Ubuntu, Mac, or Windows.
19:59 < Flannel> erichammond: so, you're all set on EC2 presentations then?  Already got one (with more computers than we'll ever be able to provide), yeah?
19:59 < jbermudes> customizing ubuntu? GDM, themes, extensions to nautilus, etc.
19:59 < Flannel> Or am I misunderstanding?
20:00 < erichammond> I'm not asking for more, but am willing to fill in any time slots / locations / target audience levels as needed.
20:00 < nhaines> We'll keep that in mind.
20:01 < nhaines> It's good to have options.  :)
20:01 < erichammond> Every time I or others talk about EC2 it seems to draw large crowds.
20:01 < Flannel> jbermudes: I'm not sure a theming one would be... useful... but then again, I don't theme myself, so I'm biased.
20:01 < AlgorithmicContr> jbermudes: for a workshop?
20:01 < Flannel> jbermudes: but, I do like the wine idea.
20:02 < sn9> WoW
20:02 < AlgorithmicContr> Flannel: well, not *just* theming
20:02 < jbermudes> how about cool command-line tricks
20:02 < Flannel> AlgorithmicContr: Would you find it useful?
20:02 < Flannel> AlgorithmicContr: (thats an honest question, if someone finds it useful, its worthwhile)
20:03 < jbermudes> I'm just trying to think of the different levels of expertise
20:03 < jbermudes> how about "from windows to ubuntu" kind of thing where we talk about translating from one to the other
20:03 < AlgorithmicContr> Flannel: useful? not entirely, but I think some may. Some people want to be comfortable around their desktop
20:03 < Flannel> That'd be a good topic.
20:03 < jbermudes> show how to do X in windows, then X in ubuntu
20:03 < Flannel> AlgorithmicContr: right, so "how to make Ubuntu your own"
20:04 < jbermudes> yeah
20:04 < Flannel> That does sound worthwhile.
20:04 < AlgorithmicContr> Yeah, just that's just a catchy title I guess
20:04 < AlgorithmicContr> hehe
20:04 < jbermudes> cause you can even stretch icon sizes and stuff
20:04 < AlgorithmicContr> .........yeah
20:04 < AlgorithmicContr> in windows it was 16x16 and mutiples of that
20:04 < Flannel> Alright, so, we've got some good ideas, perhaps we should move this to the mailing list?
20:06 < jbermudes> sounds good
20:06 < sn9> that at least reminds me to read it
20:06 < Flannel> right.  If we put it on a wiki page (topics will eventually go to wiki page), everyone will forget about it
20:07 < Flannel> I think the last topic is those cheat sheet type things, nhaines, have we set up any sort of infrastructure for them yet?
20:08 < Flannel> For those of you who weren't here last time:
20:08 < AlgorithmicContr> jbermudes: you could cover conky ;)
20:08 < Flannel> We're making up some fact sheets (for internal use) for reference on various things.
20:08 < AlgorithmicContr> jbermudes: in the "make ubuntu your own" presentation
20:09 < jbermudes> AlgorithmicContr, conky?
20:09 < AlgorithmicContr> I'll tell you later
20:09 < jbermudes> k
20:09 < AlgorithmicContr> Flannel: sorry the lapse
20:09 < AlgorithmicContr> for the*
20:09 < nhaines> Oh yeah.  Not really, but if we print out several of them, we should be able to review them during downtime and also when confronted.
20:09 < Flannel> AlgorithmicContr: No need to apologise.  We're near the end of the meeting (and its fairly freeform tonight anyway)
20:10 < Flannel> nhaines: Should we make a wiki page for collecting facts? or how do you think would be a good way to do that?
20:10 < nhaines> Flannel: Yes, we have them on a wiki page.
20:10 < nhaines> Remember?  :)
20:10 < jbermudes> nhaines, if you need anything printed/copied (1-100 range) in black and white, let me know and we can do that here at chapman
20:11 < jbermudes> or even more, just ask
20:11 < nhaines> jbermudes: sounds good!  :)
20:12 < erichammond> and I've already submitted the offer for printing a few hundred pages in color (laser)
20:12 < Flannel> Oh... erichammond, that reminds me.
20:13 < Flannel> Probably... a very important reminder.
20:13 < Flannel> Canonical is having a booth at SCaLE, hoping to work with us to make both booths a success.  But, we don't know any details at this time.
20:13 < sn9> separate booth?
20:14 < nhaines> sn9: yes.
20:14 < Flannel> Yeah, separate booth.
20:14 < Flannel> *hopefully* we'll know more specifics early next week.
20:15 < Flannel> And, we've got volunteers from other LoCos who want to help out at the booth and bugjam.
20:15 < Flannel> So, that's good too.
20:16 < sn9> who is staffing the canonical booth?
20:16 < Flannel> sn9: We have no idea.
20:16 < erichammond> Flannel: Was there something in there for me to act on? or just an FYI?
20:16 < nhaines> sn9: that's up to Canonical.
20:16 < Flannel> Canonical, presumably
20:17 < nhaines> erichammond: I think you just sparked his memory.
20:17 < Flannel> erichammond: The fact that they're doing that is why we don't know what our CD situation is.  I don't know if they'll give us oodles of CDs or how that works (I don't know anyone in a LoCo that has had both booths in the past to ask, etc)
20:17 < Flannel> erichammond: I don't *think* they'll bring oodles of CDs, but we just don't know.
20:17 < jbermudes> will people be confused as to which booth to go to?
20:17 < erichammond> Flannel: Do you have a contact at Canonical yet, or should I try to track somebody down with my contacts?
20:18 < nhaines> erichammond: I do have a contact, yes.  :)
20:18 < nhaines> They're pretty busy too, so we're still waiting for updates.
20:18 < erichammond> got it
20:19  * Flannel has nothing else for the meeting, anyone else?
20:20 < Flannel> SCale is *four* weeks from this (past) weekend.  In *28* days, we'll be done and celebrating!
20:20 < erichammond> Just noticed this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=GlobalBugJam.pdf
20:20 < rww> How's that CD-burning thing you've been working on for SCaLE coming along?
20:20 < erichammond> evince isn't working at the moment on my computer, so I can't tell if it's useful.
20:20 < nhaines> rww: hopefully we'll have some quality beta software in another week or two.  :)
20:21 < nhaines> erichammond: if it's last year's, it's very basic.
20:21 < Flannel> rww: We've got the start of a user interface getting almost usable
20:21 < Flannel> rww: We can show you what we have, its all public/bzr/etc.
20:22 < Flannel> thank you all for coming tonight.  Our next meeting is in Two weeks!  Where I'm sure some of us will be freaking out.  That's the 8th of February.

CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/09January25 (last edited 2009-06-14 07:57:28 by rww)