Sunday, October 3rd, 2010, 7:00pm (1900) PDT
LoCo Council discussion item.
Plans for Maverick release?
Komputer 4 R Kids collaboration.
- Open discussion about leadership structure ideas. Positive suggestions?
Our meetings are held for about 90 minutes every other Sunday at 7:00pm (19:00) PDT / 02:00 UTC in our IRC channel, #ubuntu-california on freenode. All interested people are welcome to join us. For questions or help connecting, check out the InternetRelayChat page or use the Web client linked from the Contact page.
19:00 < nhaines> Welcome everyone to the Ubuntu California meeting for Sunday, October 3rd, 2010. We have a full agenda tonight, which can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10October03 19:00 < mrandrzejak> if there was an ubuntu pizza, what would be the toppings on it? 19:00 < pleia2> only orange and purple ones 19:01 < akk> mrandrzejak: It would have everything on it, and you have to pick off the ones you don't like. 19:01 < mrandrzejak> haa 19:01 < nhaines> We're opening with announcements as always. First off, Maverick Meerkat is in the Release Candidate phase and is swiftly moving towards the final goal. 19:01 < czajkowski> pleia2: see pm please 19:02 < nhaines> The new Ubuntu font hit on Thursday and became the default interface font this weekend. 19:02 < mrandrzejak> it looks nice BTW 19:02 < nhaines> So feel free to do any last minute testing, because Ubuntu 10.10 will be released on Sunday, 10/10/10. 19:03 < nhaines> Our first announcement on the agenda concerns Ubuntu Open Week. I don't remember who put it up, but if they're here, do they want to talk about it? 19:03 < grantbow> can we please move forward and assume people can read the links or just give the links now? 19:04 < grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek 19:04 < grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoDays 19:04 < nhaines> grantbow: no, the announcements were added by members who wanted them to be announced at the meeting. 19:05 < nhaines> I'll summarize briefly, since that's all that is needed. 19:05 < nhaines> Ubuntu Open Week and the new Ubuntu LoCo Days are both weeklong, online sessions that are meant as introductions to various aspects of the Ubuntu community. 19:06 < pleia2> for anyone not on the mailing list (you should be!) here's my reply regarding our possible LoCo day participation: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2010-October/001317.html 19:06 < pleia2> and I'd be happy to be a part of such a session I proposed, so just let me know 19:06 < nhaines> Ubuntu Open Week is an introduction to contributing to the Ubuntu community whether through code or through other means. Testing, translating, artwork, and others. 19:06 < nhaines> Plus, there's a session where you can ask Mark Shuttleworth, the project founder, any question you like. 19:07 < nhaines> Ubuntu LoCo Days are a new project where LoCo members are encouraged to lead sessions where they share insight and advice about being involved in Local Community teams. 19:08 < nhaines> It's very new, so hopefully some of us will step forward and volunteer to run a session or two. :) 19:08 < nhaines> You can find out more about both at the URLs given above. Thanks, grantbow. 19:09 < nhaines> Okay, our next agenda item is brought by the Local Community Council. 19:09 < czajkowski> Aloha, the loco council are back again, both myself itnet7 and paultag are present today to go over some items from the last meeting. There was a lot of discussion the last time and a lot of feedback via PM and email to us concerning the team issues. 19:09 < nhaines> Are there any LoCo Council members present? 19:09 < paultag> o/ 19:09 < itnet7> 0/ 19:10 < nhaines> Okay, czajkowski, itnet7, and paultag, you have the floor. :) 19:10 < czajkowski> So I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to mail us or drop us a IM 19:10 < czajkowski> it has helped a lot 19:10 < czajkowski> With that in mind would anyone like to bring up any issues? 19:10 < czajkowski> or discuss any of the issues that were brought up in the last meeting? 19:11 < paultag> We're here to aid in the discussion 19:11 < czajkowski> nobody ? 19:11 < paultag> We can't just talk at you :) 19:11 < grantbow> one of the key participants seems absent 19:11 < czajkowski> We have some concerns regarding this team and do want to help, we have come up with a plan to move this team forward. 19:11 < grantbow> our LoCo Contact 19:12 < czajkowski> but we'd for people to discuss how the team effects them and their ability to promote Ubuntu and take part in the community 19:12 < nhaines> Flannel could not be here tonight due to work conflicts. 19:13 < czajkowski> ok well if folks don't have any more comments to make on the matter 19:14 < czajkowski> we can move along to our ideas on how to help the team 19:14 < czajkowski> after further discussion with the council 19:14 < czajkowski> the following is what we are going to recommend 19:14 < czajkowski> for the California team 19:14 < czajkowski> 90 Day probationary period - at this time the loco council will review the team status 19:15 < czajkowski> after which time we will ask you guys to come to a council meeting or we can come here and see how the team has moved on 19:15 < czajkowski> we are not revoking your approved status 19:15 < czajkowski> but we are going to keep a very close eye on this team 19:15 < paultag> As a note, the way it's currently operating is not going to be acceptable. 19:15 < czajkowski> Team leaders to be elected within 3 weeks, annouce after the meeting 19:15 < czajkowski> This team is clearly not function at present 19:16 < czajkowski> and you need to ELECT a team leader 19:16 < czajkowski> nominations to be drawn up for 2 weeks and vote on the 3rd week. ANYONE WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE CALIFORNIAN LOCO CAN VOTE/ and can be nominated by others within the team. Loco council members will handle all submissions and votes 19:16 < nhaines> The Council is reminded that we have no members. 19:16 < jledbetter> czajkowski, Just one? 19:16 < czajkowski> nhaines: anyone is part of a team is refered to a member of a team 19:16 < grantbow> nhaines: what do you mean? 19:17 < czajkowski> jledbetter: that will be up to you, a 1 leader or a 3 leader type 19:17 < jledbetter> Ok, thank you. 19:17 < nhaines> czajkowski: we have no formal definition of membership. 19:17 < czajkowski> At present it is felt that Nhaines, Flannel, Markdude, and Grantbow should be excluded from Nominations at this time. 19:17 < paultag> nhaines, so right now you don't know how many members you have? 19:17 < paultag> nhaines, just so we're clear 19:17 < nhaines> paultag: correct. 19:17 < paultag> nhaines, that seems like a very poor way to operate a team 19:18 < jledbetter> nhaines, I thought we did. Even had to renew our membership. 19:18 < jbermudes> I believe that's why we started the LP expiration thing, right? 19:18 < czajkowski> Montly report from the leader(s) to the council to be sent on the 1st of each month updating the progress or any issues that may have arisen. 19:18 < nhaines> paultag: when it was brought up on the mailing list, the idea was rejected. 19:18 < czajkowski> so when a team leader(s) are elected we'd like to get a monthly update to let us know how things are progressing 19:18 < paultag> nhaines, so you are saying you are as likely to have no members as you are to having 300? 19:19 < grantbow> czajkowski: I have no problem with that. 19:19 < nUboon2Age> is there any time left for announcements? 19:19 < nhaines> paultag: yes. 19:19 < jtatum> fyi, there is a launchpad group with 92 active members 19:19 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: after the LoCo Council discussion. 19:19 < paultag> thank you jtatum, what a great metric. 19:19 < nUboon2Age> okay nhaines ty 19:19 < czajkowski> Channel Logging for Future Issues. 19:19 < grantbow> nhaines: rejected by who? 19:20 < paultag> nhaines, FYI you have 92 active members. 19:20 < nhaines> grantbow: several other ML participants. 19:20 < czajkowski> FInally: we would encourage you all to move past the previous issues and move forward with this team 19:20 < itnet7> and 5 pending approval, one since 2010-07-22 19:20 < pleia2> moving past previous issues is vital 19:20 < nhaines> paultag: FYI, the Launchpad Team does not denote LoCo membership and that is not correct. 19:20 < czajkowski> pleia2: indeed 19:20 < grantbow> pleia2: agreed 19:20 < owen1> i am the recent member, btw 19:20 < czajkowski> nhaines: it does for all other teams 19:20 < paultag> nhaines, that will need to change. That's what we consider membership, see that it's changed. 19:20 < nhaines> czajkowski: that is irrelevant. 19:20 < czajkowski> nhaines: again, this is why the team is not operating well 19:21 < paultag> nhaines, no, it's not 19:21 < nhaines> paultag: that would require another discussion by the team. 19:21 < czajkowski> nhaines: I'm trying to tell you you are wrong 19:21 < paultag> nhaines, it's a standard, you will adhere with loco standards. 19:21 < nhaines> czajkowski: you are doing so. 19:21 < czajkowski> nhaines: so why not listen, and stop arguing with the council and members 19:21 < czajkowski> ok so to recap 19:22 < czajkowski> 90 Day probationary period - at this time the loco council will review the team status 19:22 < czajkowski> Team leaders to be elected within 3 weeks, annouce after the meeting, nominations to be drawn up for 2 weeks and vote on the 3rd week. ANYONE WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE CALIFORNIAN LOCO CAN VOTE/ and can be nominated by others within the team. Loco council members will handle all submissions and votes 19:22 < czajkowski> Create a wiki page and mail the loco council with your application, when all nominations are in we will then mail the team with the canidates and the team will then vote. 19:22 < nUboon2Age> question (sorry if i missed it earlier) are flannel and markdude not here because of some reason? 19:22 < czajkowski> Exclude, Nhaines, Flannel, Markdude, and Grantbow from Nominations at this time. 19:22 < czajkowski> Montly report from the leader(s) to the council to be sent on the 1st of each month updating the progress or any issues that may have arisen. 19:22 < czajkowski> Channel Logging for Future Issues. 19:22 < czajkowski> Encourage them to let go of the past, and look towards the future. 19:22 < czajkowski> this is the councils ruiling 19:22 < jledbetter> nUboon2Age, Flannel's at work 19:22 < nUboon2Age> ty jledbetter 19:23 < nhaines> Please clarify "Channel Logging for Future Issues". 19:23 < czajkowski> nhaines: there are a lotta issues comments in here 19:23 < czajkowski> and people rely on having to copy and paste their own logs 19:23 < paultag> czajkowski, there is always ubot2 or locobot. 19:23 < czajkowski> there is no offical ubuntu logging bot in here 19:23 < czajkowski> paultag: try adn tab complete they are not present 19:24 < paultag> czajkowski, yeah, that's what I'm saying :) 19:24 < czajkowski> so I'd ask for someone here to send out the mail re annoucning the nominations for the election of a team leader 19:24 < nhaines> czajkowski: you did not answer the question. 19:24 < nhaines> czajkowski: do you mean the LoCo Council is asking for public channel logs? 19:24 < pleia2> czajkowski: I can do it 19:25 < paultag> nhaines, see that locobot_1 or another bot is in here, please. An official Ubuntu bot. 19:25 < czajkowski> pleia2: thank you!! 19:25 < grantbow> pleia2: thank you 19:25 < nhaines> paultag: thank you. 19:25 < paultag> Of course. 19:25 < grantbow> paultag: thank you 19:25 < czajkowski> one of the council members will be actioned with setting up a voting system for the election 19:25 < czajkowski> we'd encourage as many people to step up and look to lead the team 19:26 < jledbetter> czajkowski, Part of that could be voting on the 1 leader vs 3 leaders? Then take top 3 if majority vote for 3 leaders? 19:26 < czajkowski> jledbetter: yes 19:26 < jledbetter> Fantastic 19:26 < pleia2> jledbetter: I was just typing that! :) 19:26 < jledbetter> pleia2, Sorry ;) 19:26 < czajkowski> we do feel a 3 leader would work well in this team to be honest 19:27 < paultag> It is a big team 19:27 < pleia2> yeah, since we have multiple key regions 19:27 < akk> Big and geographically scattered. 19:27 < paultag> perhaps it's time to consider spreading out the leads over the state 19:27 < grantbow> I hope it gets bigger 19:27 < pleia2> grantbow: yeah :) 19:27 < jledbetter> Yes. 19:27 < nUboon2Age> grantbow: +1 19:27 < owen1> i'll take Hollywood leadership (-: 19:28 < jtatum> thanks loco council :) 19:28 < seidos> huh, leadership by city. interesting. 19:28 < czajkowski> so pleia2 will annouceing to the mailing list, all of the information 19:29 < rww> evenin' 19:29 < czajkowski> if anyone wants to talk to the council still, please feel free to contact us, we are going to continue to idle in here 19:29 < czajkowski> so myself paultag and itnet7 are here this evening 19:29 < nUboon2Age> i do feel that regional leadership could be a good thing. it doesn't have to be formally split up, but imo having different regions represented would be a good thing. 19:29 < pleia2> thanks czajkowski, paultag and itnet7 19:29 < paultag> sure thing pleia2 19:29 < jtatum> thanks pleia2 19:29 < rww> czajkowski: Just to clarify, you're requiring public logging of this channel, and that point is not discussable? 19:29 < jledbetter> thanks pleia2 itnet7 czajkowski and paultag :) 19:29 < itnet7> rww: what should be said in here that needs to be hidden? 19:29 < czajkowski> rww: all teams in the future are going to be logged like many are already 19:29 < czajkowski> we just feel the need to ask for this now from this team 19:30 < czajkowski> based on previous issues with ops in here and people having issues 19:30 < rww> czajkowski: So yes, then? 19:30 < nUboon2Age> the logging thing is news to me, but i think its a good idea, since i've witnessed to much snark back and forth on this channel. 19:30 < grantbow> rww: what comments are you referring to? 19:30 < czajkowski> nUboon2Age: exactly the reason we'd like this channel logged 19:30 < nUboon2Age> s/to/too much 19:31 < nUboon2Age> czajkowski: makes sense to me 19:31 < grantbow> s/comments/discussion/ 19:32 < jbermudes> grantbow: I think he means if whether or not the issue of having to be logged is debatable or is final 19:32 < akk> Please make sure to put it in the topic, mail to the ML when logging starts, etc ... to be sure people know about that change. 19:32 < jtatum> what's to debate? 19:32 < nUboon2Age> i do see the concern of logging v privacy, but on balance i think its probably for the best 19:33 < nhaines> akk: not logging was by intent to encourage social interaction, so the change will be made as clearly as possib.e 19:33 < czajkowski> nUboon2Age: many/most loco teams are logged and all ubuntu project chanels are also, itnet7 is drafting a mail to be sent to all loco contacts list regarding this. 19:33 < czajkowski> you can still be sociable on here 19:33 < czajkowski> just the snipping and really bitchy comments have got to stop 19:33 < czajkowski> it's dragging the team down 19:33 < nUboon2Age> yeah czajkowski! 19:33 < czajkowski> and it's not going to be allowed any more 19:33 < rww> I guess that's a yes. 19:35 < jtatum> rww, i'm curious why you're being obtuse about stating your concerns. 19:35 < akk> I wish there was some way to have a logged channel where the logs were only accessible by team members and the council ... not, say, Google. 19:35 < akk> czajkowski's reasons for logging are good, but chatter is very different when it will be googleable forever. 19:35 < nhaines> akk: +1 19:35 < czajkowski> right council are finished 19:35 < grantbow> thanks czajkowski, paultag and itnet7 19:35 < jbermudes> akk: +1 19:36 < czajkowski> akk: it does work though and does encouage people to have some manners tbh 19:36 < paultag> I've not noticed this in any of the channels I operate 19:36 < nhaines> Okay, the next item is Maverick release plans. 19:36 < akk> Thank you very much, czajkowski and paultag! 19:36 < nUboon2Age> akk: +1 19:36 < paultag> cheers, thanks all. 19:36 < czajkowski> G'night folks 19:36 *** czajkowski goes back to bed 19:36 < nUboon2Age> gnight czajkowski 19:36 < jledbetter> G'night czajkowski 19:36 < nhaines> Right now, we have one party planned in San Francisco. Does anyone want to talk about that? 19:36 < akk> and itnet7 19:37 < rww> jtatum: I don't care to pretend that they'd be regarded. 19:37 < owen1> nhaines: i am planning a party in hollywood and would like some feedback/tips later on. 19:37 < jtatum> lol 19:37 < grantbow> nhaines: that was added by MarkDude who is absent 19:38 < nhaines> No one else is involved in that party? 19:38 < nhaines> In that case, owen1, is there anything we should know about your party? Other than that you'll be confirming it later this week? 19:38 < nUboon2Age> i'm seeing if i can contact markdude right now 19:38 < owen1> yeah, i'll know tomorrow(monday) if it's fine 19:39 < owen1> i just think of marketing it and having some 'agenda' to my party pitch 19:40 < owen1> and i would also like to attract non-ubuntu users 19:40 < nhaines> owen1: that's always a worty cause. :) 19:40 < seidos> owen1, you might want to mention it to the ucla lug 19:41 < owen1> and mabye help in installing ubuntu for those who still live in prison (MSF/MAC) 19:41 < owen1> seidos: great. will google for it 19:41 < seidos> owen1, they are on irc.gimpnet.net #lug 19:41 < seidos> owen1, they also have a mailing list 19:42 < seidos> owen1, http://linux.ucla.edu/ 19:42 < nhaines> Okay, so let's try to wrap these up on the mailing list, then. 19:42 < nhaines> Time is running short, and of course let's not forget that we can (and usually do) still have release events in the weeks to come. 19:43 < owen1> thanks. if u guys know of other ways to advertise it in LA area, let me know 19:43 < nhaines> Next on the agenda is the proposed collaboration with Komputers 4 R Kids. 19:43 < nhaines> This was raised on the mailing list and is also available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Komputers4RKids 19:44 < pleia2> in spite of not being able to be physically involved I am pretty excited about this project, and can lend my remote brain power when needed to help :) 19:45 < nhaines> pleia2: thank you. :) 19:46 < nUboon2Age> sounds like a worthy project. I've appreciated that members of this team have gotten so involved in charitable work, sharing Ubuntu and other Gnu/Linux and Floss. nhaines 19:46 < grantbow> There can be plenty of collaboration. I'm also glad to see this project and willing to help however I can. 19:47 < nhaines> thank you, grantbow. 19:47 < nhaines> Any other comments then? 19:48 < jbermudes> nhaines: any word on when the technical training is supposed to be held? 19:48 < Eureka> wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/WhoDoesWhat edited 19:48 < nhaines> jbermudes: for the students? It would be in the first or second week of Decemeber. 19:49 < jbermudes> nhaines: so are we offering technical training for the students or for their technicians? 19:49 < nhaines> jbermudes: they have asked for both. 19:49 < nhaines> There are two separate projects they have proposed. 19:50 < seidos> i'm excited about the k4rk project too, but i'm not sure what help i can offer 19:50 < jbermudes> well, I may not be an ultimate linux guru, but i'd love to help in any way I can 19:51 < nhaines> seidos, jbermudes: I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunity. Thanks. :) 19:51 < nhaines> Okay, the last item of the agenda was added by MarkDude as an open discussion item. 19:51 < grantbow> Item 5 on the agenda has been addressed by the council, right? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10October03 19:51 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: something that might be interesting, Qimo is Ubuntu-based for kids (mark T demoed it to me and it is pretty neat) 19:52 < nhaines> grantbow: no, that was an announcement, with no discussion. 19:52 < nhaines> The last item on our agenda is for open discussion about leadership structure. 19:52 < nhaines> The floor is open to all at this time. 19:53 < jbermudes> I don't know if this belongs in this section, but the discussion we had earlier about team membership was kind of interesting 19:53 < nhaines> jbermudes: that fits. 19:54 < seidos> 5 is an announcement? then why does it have a question mark? 19:55 < jbermudes> nhaines: I think you mentioned earlier that LP membership was not necessarily loco membership, if thats the case, then what will be the requirements for the election? 19:55 < nhaines> jbermudes: no one knows and no one would discuss it before deciding to vote. 19:55 < akk> I think czajkowski was pretty clear that the criterion was to be LP membership. 19:55 < grantbow> jbermudes: that is not the case 19:55 < pleia2> akk: *nod* 19:55 < grantbow> LP membership is loco membership 19:55 < nUboon2Age> for formal participation i don't see how we could avoid LP membership 19:56 < akk> I don't really understand what other criterion we could use. 19:56 < pleia2> it's that way with most teams, it's how they use launchpad for voting on teams 19:56 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: we did not have formal participation before. 19:57 < nUboon2Age> okay, nhaines point taken, but now when we are going to express a vote i think it needs to be a formal participation thing. 19:57 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: the Council have expressly stated that participation must not be a requirement for voting. 19:57 < grantbow> LP Membership now has it's privileges 19:58 < grantbow> voting 19:58 < seidos> what is the difference between official and unofficial participation? 19:58 < pleia2> there is a vetting process that people go through to join the LP team to begin with, so I'm not sure why "membership in lp means your a member" wasn't a thing all along 19:58 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: maybe i'm not communicating clearly. What i mean is that if someone is going to cast a 'vote' for leadership i don't see how LP membership can be avoided as criteria. 19:59 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: That doesn't concern me as much as that it isn't what we were using LP for up until now. 19:59 < pleia2> what where we using LP for? 19:59 < grantbow> nhaines: why are you concerned about this? 19:59 < pleia2> were 19:59 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: so it would represent a shift, but i think its logical 19:59 < pleia2> I honestly don't think there will be a flood of people from Maine coming to illegitmately vote in our election anyway :) 19:59 < akk> pleia2: We weren't using it for anything, AFAICT. 19:59 < pleia2> akk: yeah, I'm starting to get that impression 20:00 < pleia2> so people had to email team leaders to get added, for ...nothing 20:00 < akk> yep 20:00 < grantbow> pleia2: I think we are safe 20:00 < akk> to be listed on the team list, to show solidarity 20:00 < nUboon2Age> imo anyone who wants to be a formal leader needs to sign the CoC 20:00 < akk> that's why I joined the LP group 20:00 < nUboon2Age> so that means LP membership 20:00 < nhaines> pleia2: we weren't using it for anything much, so we were trying to figure out how to make it a useful indicator of who is interested in advocacy in California. 20:01 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: you do not need to be an LP member to sign the CoC. 20:01 < pleia2> nhaines: I think the vetting email is plenty, even if they sign up and disappear because life gets in the way, sending that initial email shows a level of interest 20:01 < pleia2> and rewneing 20:01 < akk> Or vice versa, right? I think I remember having a LP account before signing the CoC. 20:01 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: true but how would you let people know you'd signed the CoC? 20:01 < akk> (I signed the CoC when it was required somehow to join ubuntu-women) 20:01 < seidos> i thought signing the CoC was necessary for membership 20:01 < pleia2> akk: it's not required for UW 20:01 < pleia2> UW has open joining 20:02 < akk> but I had a LP account for years before that for bug reporting 20:02 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: I think signing the CoC (on LP) is a formality but i think its needed. 20:02 < nhaines> seidos: it's not necessary for Ubuntu California either, although it was a necessity for having a name badge at a LoCo event. 20:02 < akk> pleia2: Maybe it was just to make u-w look good ... there was some kind of membership drive thing that stressed signing the CoC. 20:02 < seidos> signing the CoC is like swearing to uphold the constitution in politics and law enforcement 20:02 < nUboon2Age> clarification: i don't thing CoC should be req. for team membership, but yes for leadership. 20:02 < pleia2> akk: ah yeah, we have done such signing drives :) 20:03 < pleia2> nUboon2Age: I agree 20:03 < nUboon2Age> not to mention LCoC 20:03 < grantbow> nUboon2Age: I agree 20:03 < jtatum> not exactly, seidos. the constitution is taught in schools. signing the coc may be your first time reading the coc 20:04 *** akk hums the preamble from Schoolhouse Rock 20:04 < nUboon2Age> i admire the content of the CoC. it basically boils down to I'll try and play nicely with others. 20:04 < grantbow> yes, spirit and letter and important 20:04 < grantbow> of the CoC 20:05 < grantbow> s/and/are/ 20:05 < jbermudes> So since elections are to be done within 3 weeks, that means that the election would happen at the next meeting? 20:05 < pleia2> jbermudes: seems like voting will probably open monday or so after the next meeting 20:05 < seidos> jtatum, i was speaking figuratively 20:06 < pleia2> signing the CoC is standard practice for leaders (and members!) within the Ubuntu project, I don't think making it a requirement is really something we need to discuss, it's implicit 20:06 < pleia2> can we talk about the 1 vs 3 leader thing now? :) 20:06 < akk> We can have attack ads against candidates who haven't signed. :) 20:06 < pleia2> lol 20:07 < grantbow> LoCo Contact requires the signature. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact 20:07 < nUboon2Age> here's something for a goal: if we are going to have 3 leads it'd be really nice if at least one were of the female persuasion. i guess we have a very limited set of female types though unfortunately. It'd also be nice to have minorities represented. Just my opinion. 20:07 < seidos> i take exception to the term "leader" 20:07 < pleia2> grantbow: leader != contact 20:07 < grantbow> true, just stating a point 20:07 < pleia2> but it is good to note 20:07 *** pleia2 nods 20:07 < seidos> can someone link to the leader wiki? 20:07 < nUboon2Age> seidos: imo leader is not a good term. 20:07 < akk> nUboon2Age: Agreed that's nice, but we probably don't want quotas. Just encourage qualified applicants to run. 20:08 < jledbetter> akk +1 20:08 < pleia2> akk +1 20:08 < seidos> nUboon2Age, it would be fine if i saw a wiki that described the leader's role i guess 20:08 < nUboon2Age> akk: yeah that's why i said for me it'd be a goal. 20:08 < grantbow> akk: +1 20:08 < jledbetter> If we're doing leadership by region, then that's already narrowing the pool a bit. 20:08 < pleia2> regarding leadership structure, should I just ask for discussion regarding 1 vs 3 leaders in the email I send out announcing the election? 20:08 < akk> Is that going to be a formal requirement? Or just something we encourage? 20:09 < akk> (leadership by region) 20:09 < nUboon2Age> contact or coordinator is better than leader imo. 20:09 < akk> pleia2: I'd say yes, ask for discussion. 20:09 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: contact already means something else. 20:09 < akk> pleia2: It can come down to a vote, but discussing it out in the open first would be really good. 20:09 < grantbow> LoCo Contact has a formal definition https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact 20:09 < akk> (don't have it come as a surprise to people) 20:09 < jledbetter> pleia2, I agree. Discussion, including what the regions (maybe) are? 20:09 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: does contact already have a definition in Ubuntu? 20:10 < pleia2> jledbetter: oh yes, we should as people to declare their region when they nominate themselves 20:10 *** pleia2 adds to notes 20:10 < nhaines> nUboon2Age:no, but it does in LoCo teams. 20:10 < nUboon2Age> well there's the obvious ones of SoCal and Norcal. 20:10 < grantbow> nhaines: I propose we use the same definition as LoCo teams. 20:11 < nhaines> grantbow: we don't have a choice. 20:11 < nhaines> In any case, the contact position is already filled at the moment, and wasn't called on for a vote by the LoCo Council. 20:11 < grantbow> ah 20:11 < nUboon2Age> Really Sac and north are truly NorCal and the Bay Area is in a central position, but as far as membership we have i don't know if we really have many from (true) Norcal besides YokoZar 20:12 < pleia2> I think the contact position can be discussed later 20:12 < grantbow> pleia2: +1 20:12 < nUboon2Age> pleia2: +1 20:12 < grantbow> I think we need to list cities, not some artificial north vs. south abstraction 20:13 < nhaines> pleia2: I was merely informing nUboon2Age that "contact" could not be used as a synonym for Team Leader. 20:13 < nUboon2Age> nhaines: yes, ty for pointing that out. i didn't realize that. 20:13 < akk> Sorry, maybe I missed it in the scrolling: who is our contact? Things like "the contact position is already filled at the momentt, and wasn't called on for a vote" fill me with curiosity. 20:13 < nUboon2Age> grantbow: counties. 20:13 < grantbow> that's close enough 20:14 < jbermudes> +1 counties 20:14 < seidos> is there another term besides "contact" used to describe the position(s) we are discussing on other teams? 20:14 < nhaines> seidos: Team Leader, usually. 20:14 < seidos> nhaines, can you provide a wiki to another teams "Team Leader" description? 20:15 < nhaines> seidos: no, sorry. 20:15 < akk> I sure would love to know what the job of the leader is. (I keep asking, but I guess no one knows, or it's a secret.) 20:15 < seidos> it's just weird that there is a description for "team contact" but not "team leader" anywhere 20:15 < nUboon2Age> counties population' and geo region would be a good guide imo. 20:15 < seidos> as far as i'm concerned, it's team contact until someone provides a description of "team leader" 20:15 < grantbow> akk: much will overlap with the LoCo Contact definition I think. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamContact 20:16 < akk> Either city or county is enough -- we can google if we want demographic or geographic details. 20:16 < akk> grantbow: I thought we were just told that the contact was some unspecified other person and it wasn't the same as leader at all. 20:16 < grantbow> akk: not the same definition, just quite a bit of overlap 20:16 < nUboon2Age> akk: what i mean is that figuring out how to know which county in which regions is logical to use population to balance. 20:17 < grantbow> We can use county geographical triangulation from the mathematical center of the state, lol 20:17 < akk> (off topic, I really wish firefox's "awesomebar" when I type in ubuntu-ca would give me something beyond the "renew your membership" page ...) 20:17 < nUboon2Age> akk: ie the LA and San Diego population is probably larger than the whole rest of the state combined. 20:18 < akk> nUboon2Age: But we all know that -- stating population in voting materials is just clutter. 20:18 < grantbow> wikipedia has all this data in tables about counties and population 20:18 < nhaines> akk: ubuntu-ca is the Canadian LoCo Team. 20:18 < grantbow> quite a bit is linked from the groups page 20:18 < grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UserGroupContacts/Groups 20:18 < nUboon2Age> akk: the reason its relevant (and not just clutter) is since we are trying to administer populations, not just geography. 20:18 < akk> nhaines: I can state with assurance that I have no bookmarks or browser history for the Canadian loco, so I don't have to worry about firefox matching that. 20:19 < akk> nhaines: The way the "awesomebar" works is by completing as you type -- you don't have to type the complete string, normally. 20:19 < nhaines> akk: just saying it could be worse. :) 20:19 < akk> (except sometimes it gets stuck on some random page you went to once six months ago, and you can't get anything else.) 20:19 < nUboon2Age> in other words we are attempting to 'market' Ubuntu, and we have target 'markets' (ie. populations) 20:19 < pleia2> awesomebar needs more awesomesauce 20:20 < seidos> i'm not sure "market" is such a good word to use. perhaps inform? 20:20 < akk> nUboon2Age: It kinda sounds like you're the only person who wants this on the elections page -- maybe you should make a separate page showing demographics for all the candidates (data pulled from wikipedia or wherever) 20:20 < akk> nUboon2Age: That's a fun development project, then you could talk about it at codecamp. :) 20:20 < seidos> i think marketing implies deception...especially effective marketing 20:20 < grantbow> marketing does not imply deception 20:21 < nUboon2Age> akk: no i'm not necessarily wanting it on an elections page, its relevant to determining which regions we have in California. 20:21 < pleia2> nUboon2Age: I agree with akk, I think it's a fine Project for the team 20:21 < seidos> grantbow, why do you say that? 20:21 < nUboon2Age> seidos: i'm neutral on the word marketing. I can take it or leave it. 20:22 < pleia2> seidos: if you're being deceptive in marketing, you're doing it wrong (and probably breaking the law) 20:22 < grantbow> seidos: I respect if it implies it for you but I don't have that implication 20:22 < nUboon2Age> seidos: we want to spread the goodness of Ubuntu. however you want to call that. 20:22 < grantbow> s/have/understand/ 20:22 < seidos> nUboon2Age, inform is what i would like to call it. teach. 20:23 < seidos> pleia2, i humbly disagree. 20:23 < grantbow> pleia2: I agree 20:23 < nUboon2Age> spreading the goodness (informing, teaching, marketing) requires that we pay attention to covering the populations of the state effectively. ideally at least. 20:23 < seidos> i can only argue from example. 20:23 < pleia2> is this still part of the meeting? :) I think we've gone a bit off-topic 20:23 < grantbow> pleia2: I agree 20:23 < nhaines> Okay, this discussion has wandered off-topic and the Council have asked us not to spend too long during meetings. 20:24 < nhaines> Do we have anything we want to discuss on the ML on this topic? 20:24 < nhaines> Conversation can continue unabated, as usual, after the meeting. 20:24 < pleia2> I'll add a section in my announcement requesting 1 v 3 leaders 20:24 < pleia2> discussion 20:24 < seidos> ah, i thought the meeting was over 20:24 *** seidos laughs 20:24 < pleia2> and request that people state their region in their wiki 20:25 < pleia2> when they nominate themselves 20:25 < nUboon2Age> for now it would be okay with me if the nominees just stated where they were from. in the future we might want to make sure we covered the populations effectively. 20:25 < grantbow> nhaines: I am sure it will, thanks for being the host this evening. 20:25 < pleia2> nUboon2Age: great 20:25 < nUboon2Age> i have an announcement if its time 20:25 < nhaines> nUboon2Age: go ahead. 20:25 < grantbow> pleia2: county instead of region was discussed and had some support I think 20:26 < pleia2> what county do I live in? 20:26 < nUboon2Age> We have 38 people signed up for the "Beginning Ubuntu Gnu/Linux Development" at Silicon Valley Code Camp. 20:26 < rww> pleia2: San Francisco 20:26 < pleia2> oh neat 20:26 < grantbow> lol 20:26 < nUboon2Age> reacing for the web page... 20:26 < grantbow> en.wikipedia.org 20:27 < owen1> question about release parties - is it ok to have a party on Friday instead of Sun? 20:27 < nUboon2Age> Here's the RSVP: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/424/detail/ 20:27 < pleia2> woohoo 20:27 < grantbow> owen1: yes, that's ok 20:27 < nhaines> owen1: can be whenever. 20:27 < nUboon2Age> Here's the project page (thanks to pleia2): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/CodeCamp2010 20:27 < owen1> ok 20:28 < nUboon2Age> if you're interested its next Saturday, 5pm at Foothill College in Los Altos, and 20:28 < nUboon2Age> you need to go register ASAP at http://siliconvalley-codecamp.com/Program.aspx 20:29 < pleia2> nUboon2Age: I will keep you in my thoughts while I'm on the airplane :) 20:29 < pleia2> sorry I can't help out this time around 20:29 < nUboon2Age> if we can pull our act together we may have a prerelease Maverick Meerkat party after the session with the folks that come. details tbd 20:29 < nUboon2Age> pleia2: have fun ;-) 20:30 < nUboon2Age> potentially we can give folks a taste of the Ubuntu community via a party. 20:30 < akk> Wow, that new LoCo CSS is really ... bland 20:30 < nhaines> Okay, thank you all for attending this meeting. Our next meeting will be on Sunday, October 17th, 2010 at 19:00 PDT.