2009-06-23

For minutes of previous meetings, please see DesktopTeam/Meeting.

Meeting Minutes

Present

Main Meeting

  • Rick Spencer (rickspencer3) - chair
  • Alexander Sack (asac)
  • Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)

  • Bryce Harrington (bryce)
  • Chris Cheney (calc)
  • Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

  • Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
  • Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)
  • Tony Espy

Eastern Edition

  • Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

  • Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

Apologies

  • Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)
  • Martin Pitt (pitti)

Agenda

  • Outstanding actions from last meeting

Announcements

Status Updates

  • Partner Update
  • Kubuntu Update
  • Release Bugs/Release Status
  • Review activity reports

Discussion

  • Paper cut bugs

Actions from this meeting

  • ACTION: kenvandine to investigate mozjz linkage and ABI/API policy
  • ACTION: kenvandine to work with asac regarding white listing of U1
  • ACTION: All - look out for paper cuts mail each week, and fix on if possible.
  • ACTION: rickspencer3 to review how paper cut effort is working for the team in two weeks.
  • ACTION: awe to review Audio spec and to comment on volume scaling

Outstanding actions from last meeting

  • ACTION: All - finishing adding work items to white boards by Thursday
  • ACTION: All - finish spec drafting by Thursday and set them to "pending approval"
    • All specs have been through a round of review, some stragglers not yet approved
  • ACTION: rickspencer3 to ask davidbarth if the DXE team needs help setting up burndown charts
  • ACTION: MIR team, please review Kubuntu MIRs
  • ACTION: pitti to slurp work items from Kubuntu wiki and integrate into burndown
    • Done
  • ACTION: All - review https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html and ask pitti for assistance if needed

    • No status checked

Karmic Sprint

  • Will be in Dublin
  • Go ahead and arrange travel
  • Check the wiki for all info

Partner Update

  • Ubuntu One

  • DX Team - Waiting for iteration planning wiki page

X Update

  • We are ahead of curve on merges
    • 11 packages need merge/sync, out of 92 updates since Jaunty.
    • 10 packages have upstream releases but not yet in Debian
    • Of these, 4 are high priority (xorg, -fglrx, -nvidia, and -intel). All are in PPAs or git now. Will be uploaded after testing.
    • git snapshots of xserver, -ati/KMS, & -nouveau/KMS are in PPAs

  • X.org in Karmic is working well
    • 2107 total open X bugs; this is high but the rate of open growth bugs has leveled off, compared with the post-Jaunty period.
      • -nvidia and -intel are where most bug growth has occurred.
    • Kernel updates have solved nearly all -intel problems on Jaunty.
    • KMS on -intel is ready to switch on by default. -ati / -nouveau WIP.
  • xorg-edgers is proving itself, both for testing of various KMS bits, and avoiding potential regressions in proposed updates.[0]. The Intel upstream developers have also been quite pleased with xorg-edgers[1]; if xorg-edgers makes life easier for upstream developers, maybe they'll be recommending ubuntu more often.
  • We are also now maintaining two "backport" style PPAs to provide additional support options for past releases like Jaunty:
    • 'x-updates' for upgraded drivers
    • 'x-retro' for downgraded drivers

Paper Cut Bugs

  • rickspencer3 asks who has fixed a paper cut bug.
  • some discussion of work and communication flow ensued. Some engineers are being flooded with bug mail result from the effort.
  • rickspence3 provides guidance to consider paper cuts to be as important as spec work, and for canonical engineers to invest at least half a day every two weeks to the effort.
  • rickspence3 also advises looking our for the mail to ubuntu-devel each week for that week's paper cuts, rather than trying to harvest them from the launchpad project.
  • ACTION: All - look out for paper cuts mail each week, and fix on if possible.

Activity reports

Alexander Sack (asac)

(two days on holiday)

  • finish spec work; add work items (was a bit work intensive)
  • update nspr to 4.7.5 in karmic
  • update nss to 3.12.3 in karmic; fixed crasher on buildd's caused during lib signing
  • respin thunderbird in security PPA using latest nspr/nss in an attempt to fix armel issues
  • more tbird + armel discussions
  • discussions about VMC and chrom{e,ium} with upstream
  • coordinate work split with espy
  • some MIR processing
  • started to evaluate blueman as an even better replacement for gnome-bluetooth
  • prepared evaluation patch for bug 360905 and asked users for testing. Not much feedback yet.

Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)

  • Specs: desktop-karmic-input-methods got approved, desktop-karmic-language-selector-karmic got reviewed by pitti. Fixed the spec according to pitti's suggestions, now waiting for mpt to update his mockup.
  • Discussion with ibus upstream about ibus development
  • Triaging some of ibus upstream bug reports
  • Followed up discussion about font classification with Enrico Zini: since fontconfig cannot reliably determine for which languages a font is acceptable to use for, the idea is now to create a font registry, where font metadata is centrally collected and maintained. Similar to debtags, but font specific.
  • Discussions with Launchpad Translations team: translation opening for karmic will be postponed a bit, since Launchpad has some hardware problems with their staging server, so the tests didn't run through. Need to wait until this is fixed and the tests have been completed.
  • Trying merge for scim, but FTBFS on my machine. Need to investigate.
  • Travel planning for Desktop sprint

Bryce Harrington (bryce)

  • Finished up blueprint work
  • Testing nouveau + apw's kernel on nvidia and ati hw
  • Upgraded an i945 laptop to karmic for more KMS testing
  • Help various alpha-2 upgraders with X bugs
  • Improved script for summarizing upstreamed UXA bug reports; now
    • displays upstream bug status info that's missing in LP currently.
  • Packaged new versions of -fglrx and -nvidia; in my PPA now.
  • Worked on scripts to request re-tests for new driver uploads
  • Wrote Xorg status report for tues meeting
  • Catchup on email from being gone

Chris Cheney (calc)

  • Uploaded openoffice.org 1:3.1.0-5ubuntu1 to h/i/j/k
  • Bug 389403 was discovered blocking OOo Rosetta usage
  • Weekly desktop team meeting
  • Lots of OOo bug triage

Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)

  • <Holiday>

Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

Done:
  • Ubuntu One related package MIRs (not complete, awaiting feedback from OLS team)
  • Desktop Integration status wiki pages
  • Ubuntu One blueprint reviews and converting user stories into acceptance tests
  • Vacation Smile :)

This week:
  • Integrate DX iterations into DesktopIntegration status tracking

  • Align milestones for both DX and OLS teams
  • Figure out the farsight deps for main

Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

Accessibility

  • Started work on the gnome-speech replacement specification, due to needing to work closely with a couple of projects to get the ball rolling. Log items will reflect current progress of this spec.
  • Found that compiz now works better with accessibility, in that window titles are announced when switching between windows, however there are still some focus issues to be resolved. Will talk to upstream about how I can help to debug these issues.

Audio

  • Audio bug triaging, bugs in question are against pulseaudio, alsa userspace, and the kernel for hardware enablement.
  • Continued drafting of the audio experience spec.
  • Tested suspend and resume with a bluetooth headset and pulseaudio, to find that while pulseaudio resumes playing the audio, it doesn't get played from the bluetooth headset. This may not be easy to fix, but I'll see what I can do to fix it.
  • Tested suspend and resume with a USB sound care and pulseaudio, with the same results as above for bluetooth. This may be easier to fix.
  • Merged changes from Debian for pulseaudio, which is a bunch of stability fixes from upstream.
  • Sponsored a new upstream svn snapshot upload of PortAudio. I need to see how well espeak behaves with this version.

Misc

  • Sponsored a few gnome related uploads, as well as the portaudio upload mentioned above.

Martin Pitt (pitti)

Karmic spec drafting: all approved

Karmic feature work:

  • desktop-karmic-automagic-python-build-system:
    • started test suite, fixed a few bugs uncovered by that, and cleaned up some code
  • desktop-karmic-symptom-based-bug-reporting:
    • implemented infrastructure and test cases, basic system works now
  • hal deprecation:

    • Improved script to translate hal-info music players to udev rules and info files
    • ported gvfs cdda backend from hal to gudev, patch sent upstream
    • started porting gvfs gphoto backend to gudev (over-the-weekend job, will still take a while)
  • gnome-panel speedup: no progress this week

Other work done:

  • Added moin parsing to workitems.py, added Kubuntu wiki WIs
  • Checked/synced some merges from other people, to help out
  • Fought with newer tzdata and Bangladesh breakage, finally got it sorted out, in -updates now
  • PolicyKit-1 migration: packaged policykit-1 and policykit-1-gnome, new gnome-disk-utility, and new devicekit-disks; all staged in ubuntu-desktop PPA and karmic NEW now

  • Reviewed empathy dependency breakage, updated MIR bug; rolled back karmic seeds to pidgin to unbreak CD builds
  • Loads and loads of spec reviews/approvals
  • Updated langpack-locales to latest locale data, and changed the package to be easier to maintain/update

Merges: mine are all done

Sponsoring:

  • brasero, dput, eog, gnome-games, json-glib, libsoup2.4, lintian, metacity, ntfs-3g, pdf2djvu, poppler, pyth

on-crypto, vte, xen-3.3

Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

  • Updated pacakges: bluez-gnome, evince, file-roller, gcalctool, gedit, glade-3, gnome-games, gnome-nettool, gnome-system-monitor, gucharmap, libwnck, metacity
  • Worked on versions tool, adding bug links, more packages, universe packages (disabled by default), LP theme
  • Triaged compiz
  • Made patch for mute button problems in gst-mixer, bug #299642

Sebastien Bacher (seb128)

  • GNOME 2.27.3 updates: evolution-data-server evolution

evolution-exchange file-roller glib gtk+ pygtk

  • desktop merges: libwnck pango gnome-pkg-tools
  • added work items to the specs I'm drafting
  • updated notify-osd in karmicn reviewed and sponsored

gnome-settings-daemon changes for the new notify-osd version

  • fixed some desktop bugs in karmic
  • desktop bug triage
  • some minors tweak to the script to build the ubuntu desktop component

versions table, set up a cron job in the datacenter so it gets regularly updated

  • sponsoring: gnome-desktop gconf gnome-system-monitor gtk2-engines

gnome-menus gucharmap pessulus vino gnome-settings-daemon

Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)

  • Completed bug cleanup of foomatic-db
  • Merged and updated Foomatic packages: foomatic-db, foomatic-db-engine, foomatic-hpijs
  • Updated HPLIP to version 3.9.6, moved ACL control to allow the desktop user to access non-printing functions of HP's printers and multi-function devices from HAL to UDEV (LP: #389841), applied user-contributed patch to make printing on CDs and DVDs working again (LP: #380858).
  • Regression in the support for documents with changing page sizes in the Poppler PostScript output (LP: #382379): Two users complained that duplex printing stopped working. Fixed the problem in Poppler (got also accepted upstream) and replaced the proposed Poppler package for the Jaunty SRU. Got already positive reactions of the two complaining users on this fix.

  • Tested new user-contributed patch for making evince sending PDF to CUPS when printing. Works perfectly now (LP: #258421).
  • Updated upstream GIT repositories of hal-cups-utils and system-config-printer to work together correctly with HPLIP 3.9.6.

Tony Espy (awe)

  • spent time analyzing the VMC code; wasn't able to run on 9.04. Had a discussion about future VMC plans with Jerone and Brent Fox ( FAE Team ) and David Mandala ( mobile ).
  • started working on the network-manager 0.7.1 VPN updates.
  • general network-manager bug maintenance work.
  • discussed OEM network-manager short-term requirements for modem-manager work.
  • updates to DesktopTeam/ConnectionManagerComparison table.

IRC Log

[17:32] <rickspencer3> looks like we're ready to go
[17:32] <kenvandine> yup
[17:32] <rickspencer3> so pitti (who's not here) asked me to make a couple of announcements for him
[17:33] <rickspencer3> "gentle reminders" as he put it
[17:33] <rickspencer3> pitti: Reminder: do you merges (https://merges.ubuntu.com/main.html)<<BR>> [17:33] <rickspencer3> also, spec status
[17:33] <rickspencer3> are there any specs that aren't approved yet, but should be, or will be soon?
[17:34] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, only ones i know of are the DX ones
[17:34] <asac> i think the network-ui isnt approved. we have to resubmit it after doing some minor adjustments pitti wanted to see
[17:34] <kenvandine> which should happen this week
[17:34] * asac pushes this high on his list
[17:34] <ccheney> hi
[17:34] <asac> but tasks are already in there and so on.
[17:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: looks like there is "integrating with U1, and also couchdb on the list)
[17:34] <kenvandine> oh right
[17:34] <rickspencer3> asac: ack
[17:35] <kenvandine> those aren't approved yet
[17:35] <asac> (so just a formal signoff thing)
[17:35] <ArneGoetje> rickspencer3: language-selector. waiting for mpt to update the mockup. but it's reviewd by pitti already.
[17:35] <rickspencer3> looks like we're close to having it all apporved
[17:35] <asac> kenvandine: does couchdb involve getting it in main?
[17:35] <kenvandine> yes
[17:35] <asac> too bad. means we have to open flood gates for consumers of not exported mozjs api :(
[17:36] <kenvandine> asac, ?
[17:36] <asac> kenvandine: previously we didnt let things in that linked against mozjs
[17:36] <asac> (in main)
[17:36] <kenvandine> ah
[17:36] <asac> because there is no upstreawm ABI/API policy
[17:36] <kenvandine> eek
[17:37] <asac> even though in practice they dont break it in security update, they dont rally commit to it
[17:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: is this an issue that you need to sort out for the MIR?
[17:37] <asac> kenvandine: you can probably see that in the ugly LD_LIBRARY_PATH hack i added to it in my upload (last week?)
[17:37] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, looks like it
[17:38] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, we will obviously need to discuss that
[17:38] <kenvandine> asac, i will ping you when we do that MIR
[17:38] <asac> yes. lets put that as an action item
[17:38] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to investigate mozjz linkage and ABI/API policy
[17:38] <kenvandine> mozjs
[17:38] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:38] <kenvandine> :)
[17:38] <rickspencer3> java zcript
[17:38] <rickspencer3> http://piware.de/tmp/desktopteam-burndown-karmic.png<<BR>> [17:38] <rickspencer3> looks like someone pulled a bunch of work out of Karmic yesterday?
[17:39] <asac> wow ... someone flipped a bunch of things to done ;)
[17:39] <rickspencer3> asac: not really, they just removed the work items
[17:39] <asac> hmm. guess the trend line needs to get adjustment when that happens?
[17:39] <rickspencer3> changes in scope are reflected by changes in the total height of the bar
[17:39] <rickspencer3> asac: changing scope is a valid way to stay below the trend line
[17:39] <seb128> is the trend bar the target or the current speed?
[17:40] <rickspencer3> however, I suspect that the scope did not truly change, and that someone broke it somehow
[17:40] <asac> rickspencer3: yeah. but if you adjust it by offset changing scope will also narrow gap.
[17:40] <rickspencer3> seb128: closer to target ... it's the speed at which you would have to resolve items to exactly fill capacity but still be ontime
[17:41] <asac> but ok ;)
[17:41] <rickspencer3> in any case, if you changed work items on your blueprint, please check to make sure that you didn't break the burndown chart script
[17:41] * rickspencer3 wonders if the link to kubuntu todo broke
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ok, next announcement:
[17:42] <rickspencer3> The location of the Karmic sprint was confirmed last week
[17:42] <rickspencer3> did anyone *not* see that?
[17:42] * seb128 did see that
[17:42] * asac too
[17:42] * ArneGoetje too
[17:42] <awe> +1
[17:43] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:43] <rickspencer3> so get your airfare, etc...
[17:43] <kenvandine> working on it already :)
[17:43] <bryce> rickspencer3, hmm, that drop in the curve might have been me marking the xorg blueprint "Completed"? All the work items were done so I figured that was safe to do now?
[17:43] <rickspencer3> bryce: interesting
[17:44] <bryce> rickspencer3, I had assumed that they'd still show up on the graph though... script bug?
[17:44] <rickspencer3> bryce: could be
[17:44] <rickspencer3> we can look at the database later, and see what's not in there, etc...
[17:44] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: partner status update?
[17:44] <bryce> ok
[17:45] <kenvandine> ok
[17:45] <bryce> (maybe I'm wrong; xorg had only 7 tasks, but ~30 are missing)
[17:45] <kenvandine> i have updated the ubuntuone status page
[17:46] <kenvandine> to reflect the spec the u1 team created for karmic integration
[17:46] <kenvandine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/DesktopIntegration/Status<<BR>> [17:46] <kenvandine> i also added some desktop stuff at the bottom that i care about as well
[17:46] <kenvandine> i am still working on getting a view into the DX team's iterations
[17:47] <kenvandine> so we can get a similar wiki page
[17:47] <kenvandine> or ideally work items with a burn down chart for them
[17:47] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: I think they are still working on their planning and plan to be done eow, right?
[17:47] <kenvandine> dbarth promised that this week
[17:47] <kenvandine> yes
[17:47] <kenvandine> that is all i have right now
[17:48] <rickspencer3> so for U1, it looks like file sharing and desktop integration are in good shape
[17:48] <kenvandine> yup
[17:48] <rickspencer3> great
[17:48] <rickspencer3> I think that Riddell is canoeing today
[17:48] <rickspencer3> so no Kubuntu update
[17:48] <rickspencer3> bryce: X?
[17:48] <asac> (kenvandine: could you remind ubuntuone folks to get in touch with you/me/mvo for the third party whitelisting application (for < karmic) ?)
[17:49] <kenvandine> whitelisting?
[17:49] <bryce> rickspencer3, shall I paste or just discuss what's on the meeting summary page?
[17:49] <rickspencer3> bryce, just discuss, Ithink
[17:50] <rickspencer3> but first ...
[17:50] <rickspencer3> asac: kenvandine: is the whitelisting for Jaunty?
[17:50] <asac> kenvandine: they wanted to apply to whitelist their ppa for single click install through apturl -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThirdPartyRepositoryApplicationProcess; lets talk after meeting
[17:50] <bryce> merges - we're ahead of the curve. Most stuff merged in; remaining priorities in PPAs.
[17:50] <kenvandine> ah
[17:50] <kenvandine> asac, yeah... lets talk about that
[17:50] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to work with asac regarding white listing of U1
[17:51] <rickspencer3> bryce: how do you know you are ahead?
[17:51] <bryce> xorg overall stability is good, bugs have leveled off. However we've got a few merges and changes (kms by default on -intel) coming in that should destabilize things a bit.
[17:51] <bryce> rickspencer3, we track outstanding merges here - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/PkgList/versions_current.html ; plus based on prior releases we're generally not to this point until closer to alpha-3
[17:52] <bryce> rickspencer3, that's the highlights; rest of the details are in the meeting minutes
[17:52] <rickspencer3> so you can tell from that list that you'll need to do a certain number of merges per week, and you are ahead of that number? nice
[17:53] <bryce> essentially, yes
[17:54] <rickspencer3> great that the kernel updates have relieved Jaunty intel users!
[17:54] <rickspencer3> that was quite a long row to hoe!
[17:54] <bryce> yeah
[17:54] <rickspencer3> congrats
[17:54] <bryce> also, we're doing things a little differently this time around by using PPAs more heavily
[17:54] <bryce> so if anyone here is bored with X being too stable in karmic, you're encouraged to load the xorg-edgers PPA
[17:54] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:54] <kenvandine> hehe
[17:55] <bryce> we have new versions of -nvidia, -fglrx, -intel... pretty much everything
[17:55] <seb128> will it fix xorg eating gigabytes of memory a day? ;-)
[17:55] <rickspencer3> bryce: nice job on xorg-edgers, btw
[17:55] <bryce> as we get testing feedback, those bits will then be loaded into karmic
[17:55] <kenvandine> i switched to vesa because of the memory issue on 965
[17:55] <kenvandine> :)
[17:55] <rickspencer3> while we're looking at bryce's versions list, as an aside:
[17:55] <rickspencer3> http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/versions.html<<BR>> [17:55] <bryce> seb128, mm, there is a patch for that I believe. Not sure on the status at the moment
[17:56] <seb128> is the edgers ppa crack of the day or candidate updates?
[17:57] <bryce> seb128, primarily git snapshots, but there are candidate updates mixed in as well
[17:57] <seb128> ok
[17:57] <bryce> we considered breaking those out, but it's too many ppas to manage already
[17:57] <rickspencer3> thanks bryce
[17:57] <rickspencer3> good update
[17:58] <rickspencer3> moving on ...
[17:58] <rickspencer3> paper cut bugs
[17:58] <seb128> you can click on the "+" need to the package column title to get extra components on versions.html
[17:58] <seb128> feel free to discuss extra components to add if you are interested to see something else there
[17:58] <rickspencer3> check that out
[17:58] <pedro_> i was going to ask for empathy but it's already there, nice :-)
[17:59] <seb128> we could maybe split the tables
[17:59] <seb128> ie have a telepathy* table too
[17:59] <seb128> anyway we can discuss that out of the meeting
[17:59] <rickspencer3> seb128: could you programitically create a list of *all* the packages?
[18:00] <seb128> "all"?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> (in a seperate list, of course)
[18:00] <rickspencer3> versions looks like all the gnome packages that you actively maintain
[18:00] <seb128> well we need somebody to define the upstream tarballs location to get the upstream versions
[18:00] <rickspencer3> ah
[18:00] <rickspencer3> so, no
[18:00] <seb128> and it would probably take a while to pull versions for the whole universe
[18:00] <rickspencer3> but if someone from the community was interested in a package, they could ask you
[18:01] <seb128> but we could do a page daily updated with a broader scope
[18:01] <seb128> yes
[18:01] <seb128> everything we would like to make sure is updated should be added
[18:01] <seb128> maybe a core page for what we work on (ie what is on the CD)
[18:02] <rickspencer3> that would be a good idea
[18:02] <seb128> and a community page listing all the nice desktopish applications we would like to get uptodate too
[18:02] <rickspencer3> and a page of "needs community updater"
[18:02] <rickspencer3> schweet
[18:02] <seb128> right
[18:02] <rickspencer3> and for the second page, folks can just ask you for items for that page
[18:02] <seb128> anyway code is available on launchpad and we will keep tweaking it
[18:02] <rickspencer3> this is very cool
[18:03] <seb128> we might add the components list in a public place so anybody can add a component to the second table
[18:03] <rickspencer3> great collaboration tool, plus provides transparency
[18:03] <seb128> and it makes much easier for us to know what to do
[18:03] <seb128> anyway enough of the topic for the meeting I guess ;-)
[18:03] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:03] <rickspencer3> moving on
[18:03] <rickspencer3> paper cut bugs
[18:04] <rickspencer3> anyone pick any off for this week?
[18:04] <kenvandine> not yet... but plan to
[18:04] <rickspencer3> okay
[18:04] <rickspencer3> I'd like everyone to shoot for one paper cut bug every two weeks
[18:04] <rickspencer3> but one per week would be better
[18:04] <rickspencer3> :)
[18:05] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:05] <awe> seb128 didn't you pick off the gnome-keyring?
[18:05] <awe> bug
[18:05] <rickspencer3> lol
[18:05] <seb128> which one?
[18:05] <asac> thought that too
[18:05] <asac> NM + keyring
[18:05] <awe> bug #162710
[18:05] <asac> + auto login
[18:05] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 162710 in hundredpapercuts "Cannot access wireless networks keys when user change his session password." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162710<<BR>> [18:05] <rickspencer3> seb128: did you really?
[18:05] <seb128> I like the papercut idea
[18:06] <awe> the sync fixed it
[18:06] <seb128> but they picked not so easy bugs in many cases
[18:06] <awe> +!
[18:06] <seb128> rickspencer3: no
[18:06] <rickspencer3> seb128: ok
[18:06] <rickspencer3> you rocked that
[18:06] <rickspencer3> hold on
[18:06] <seb128> the sync fixed the password change issue
[18:06] <seb128> autologin is not the same issue
[18:06] <rickspencer3> cool
[18:06] <seb128> and I doubt we will fix this one easily
[18:06] <rickspencer3> so if the bug is not easy to fix, it's not a paper cut
[18:07] <seb128> well, we should define how easy it has to be
[18:07] <rickspencer3> just say in the comment "not easy to fix", maybe a little bit about why, and set it to invalid in the paper cuts project
[18:07] <seb128> lot of those bugs are at least one day of work
[18:07] <bryce> rickspencer3, sometimes a bug can be trivial to fix, but only if you know the package already; if you're coming in cold, coming up to speed learning the codebase structure can consume quite a bit of time
[18:07] <seb128> right, I started doing that
[18:07] <seb128> but I declared bankrupt there
[18:07] <seb128> there got over 900 bugs in a week
[18:07] <ccheney> some bugs may be easier to fix for some people than others, such as artwork change requests
[18:07] <rickspencer3> bryce: right, that's why defining "easy" is hard
[18:07] <seb128> they flooded my inbox so much that I stopped reading bug emails mostly now
[18:07] <bryce> rickspencer3, indeed
[18:07] * ccheney isn't an artist by any stretch ;-)
[18:08] <rickspencer3> ccheney: you should never get an art bug without attached art
[18:08] <ccheney> rickspencer3: ah so these papercut bugs are just papercut bugs that are also assigned to you?
[18:08] <rickspencer3> I think we need to be flexible with how we approach this
[18:08] <pedro_> seb128: i've created a special vfolder for those, otherwise it's really too much to read :-/
[18:08] <asac> seb128: traffic - just by adding the papercuts task? or because they explicitly asked for your input?
[18:08] * ccheney has seen lots of papercut bugs in OOo in general
[18:08] <rickspencer3> ccheney: they will be in the paper cuts projects
[18:09] <ccheney> rickspencer3: ok
[18:09] <rickspencer3> ccheney: yes, that's because OOo is very important to people, and they use it a lot
[18:09] <ccheney> rickspencer3: ok, will look through the list some more
[18:10] <seb128> asac: because people started adding hundrerpapercut tasks randomly to any bug they want to get looked at by somebody
[18:10] <asac> is there any way to query for papercut tasks bugs filed against specific package?
[18:10] <seb128> asac: and then arguing why it should be a hundredpapercut and why other have been wrong to not accept it as being one
[18:10] <rickspencer3> hmm
[18:11] <seb128> asac: I got over a thousand "spams" due to it this week
[18:11] <asac> yeah. maybe suggestion should have been done by individual bugs first and only those accepted should get that task
[18:11] <rickspencer3> they have batched up the paper cuts in sets of 10
[18:11] <rickspencer3> 10 for each week
[18:11] <rickspencer3> I would ignore anything that has not made it onto that list
[18:11] <seb128> rickspencer3: well to reach that I got over a thousand noise emails before
[18:11] <bryce> rickspencer3, where is the listing of the 100? The bug tracker seems to have several hundred bugs in it
[18:11] <seb128> and people keep complaining on lot of bugs about their bug not having been accepted as hundredpapercut now
[18:11] <seb128> is a bit like people arguing over bug closing
[18:12] <awe> 442 open
[18:12] <rickspencer3> the project drew much more interest than was anticipated
[18:12] <seb128> bryce: look for round-n milestones
[18:12] <rickspencer3> the design team is sending a mail each week to #ubuntu-devel that has the list for that week
[18:12] <rickspencer3> I would probably ignore anything except the list on that email
[18:12] <seb128> rickspencer3: well, I sort of expected it would turn this way when they blogged about it and told them but they said they were fine with filtering the noise as long as they get the 100
[18:13] <awe> https://edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+milestones<<BR>> [18:13] <seb128> rickspencer3: well the things is that they are using standard ubuntu bugs so you can't ignore those easily
[18:13] <seb128> ie they take an open bug and anybody can add an hundredpapercut task
[18:14] <seb128> which turn the bug which was quiet for years to a discussion forum where people argue on why it should be an hundredpapercut
[18:14] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:14] <rickspencer3> the important thing is that there exists a good list of bugs, and now it's time to get 100 fixe
[18:14] <rickspencer3> d
[18:14] <seb128> anyway something to consider for the next cycle we might want to use a different medium to discuss those
[18:14] <seb128> right
[18:14] <rickspencer3> :)
[18:14] <seb128> should we spend some work time on those goals?
[18:15] <rickspencer3> if they repeat this process, we should certainly figure a better way
[18:15] <seb128> or rather consider it as a community project?
[18:15] <rickspencer3> work time
[18:15] <rickspencer3> I would say if you see a bug that you think you are the best person to fix
[18:15] <seb128> higher rating than spec work?
[18:15] <bryce> rickspencer3, also if this is something our team is taking the responsibility to commit time to doing, it would have been nice to have had some input into how the project was set up at the outset.
[18:15] <seb128> I will have difficulties to make space for those and all my specs ... what should be focus on?
[18:15] <Amaranth> yeah, an old compiz bug about how show desktop works has one guy basically saying "patch it to do what I want or remove it from Ubuntu"
[18:16] <Amaranth> good times
[18:16] <seb128> (I guess I'm not alone in this case)
[18:16] <rickspencer3> I would say it's as important as spec work
[18:16] <bryce> rickspencer3, seb128's comments about people just using it to flag their pet bugs troubles me.
[18:16] <rickspencer3> bryce: this was all discussed at UDS, etc...
[18:16] <rickspencer3> the design team is carefully vetting the input
[18:16] <rickspencer3> and anyway, it's too late now
[18:16] <seb128> bryce: as rickspencer3 said the design team pick 10 a week and email the official list
[18:17] <seb128> so we should work on those selected
[18:17] <seb128> they use milestones for the "official" lists too
[18:17] <Amaranth> back when there were only ~250 bugs reported as paper cuts I went through all of them and tried to filter out junk and assign things to the right place
[18:17] <rickspencer3> so I would suggest budgeting about half a day every two weeks or so
[18:17] <Amaranth> people are opening bugs against only the paper cuts project, not an ubuntu package
[18:17] <ccheney> looks like 50% of them are nautilus bugs, heh
[18:17] <kenvandine> interesting
[18:17] <seb128> Amaranth: some people have been "fixing" that
[18:17] <rickspencer3> in two weeks we can check in and see how it's working
[18:18] <seb128> right
[18:18] <rickspencer3> keep the big picture in mind ... it's important that we help the design team to succeed with this
[18:19] <rickspencer3> of course, we won't have time to fix all the bugs, but it looks like a lot of community support is flowing in as well
[18:19] <awe> rickspencer3: hmmm... if people are using the project wrong ( ie. creating direct bugs ), shouldn't that be prevented?
[18:19] <rickspencer3> awe: unfortunately, launchpad does not have the means of preventing that now, but should in the future
[18:19] <seb128> let's not discuss the bug flow now, they nominated most bugs now anyway
[18:19] <rickspencer3> seb128: right
[18:19] <seb128> that's not a concern until next cycle if we do that again
[18:19] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:20] <rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
[18:20] <seb128> thanks rickspencer3
[18:20] <kenvandine> yup
[18:20] <kenvandine> thx
[18:20] <awe> see ya
[18:20] <rickspencer3> thanks all!
[18:20] <Amaranth> oops, was a meeting :P
[18:20] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[18:20] <asac> thx
[18:20] <ccheney> thanks
[18:20] <bryce> thanks
[18:21] <evanrmurphy> thanks
[18:21] <tkamppeter> thanks


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DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-06-23 (last edited 2009-06-24 00:02:49 by rick-rickspencer3)