2009-07-14

For minutes of previous meetings, please see DesktopTeam/Meeting.

Meeting Minutes

Present

Main Meeting

  • Rick Spencer (rickspencer3) - chair
  • Alexander Sack (asac)
  • Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)

  • Bryce Harrington (bryce)
  • Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

  • Martin Pitt (pitti)
  • Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
  • Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)
  • Tony Espy

Eastern Edition

  • Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

  • Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

Apologies

  • Chris Cheney (calc)
  • Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)

Agenda

Status Updates

  • Partner Update
  • Release Bugs/Release Status
  • quickly
  • Review activity reports

Discussion

  • Pitti: empathy in alpha-3
  • asac: test bluetooth front ends

Actions from this meeting

  • ACTION: rickspencer3 to create trackable feature areas for DXE team
  • ACTION: kenvandine to facilitate discussion between SteveA and asac regarding firefox extension
  • ACTION: everyone try both bluetooth front ends, report experience to asac next team meeting
  • ACTION: TheMuso to test accessibility of empathy built with webkit

Outstanding actions from last meeting

  • ACTION: kenvandine to organize uploading new FUSA applet and new GDM, document workarounds
    • RESULT: DONE, FUSA isn't ready yet and new GDM is mostly working.
  • ACTION: hggdh, rickspencer3, pedro_ to install new gdm from ubuntu-desktop ppa, report serious problems to seb128 and/or kenvandine
    • RESULT: New GDM is in Karmic, and mostly working
  • ACTION: ALL: provide feedback and help regarding Kubuntu browsers to Riddel in #kubuntu-devel if desired
    • RESULT: No movement due to desktop summit, follow up next week
  • ACTION: All: run edgers until alpha 3, and then disable (if currently running or otherwise interested)
    • RESULT: Still plan of record
  • ACTION: robert_ancell to discuss upstream of DXE FUSA applet wtih seb128 and kenvandine
  • ACTION: ALL: install mozilla security update, report problems to asac
    • RESULT: Everyone should have done this by next week
  • ACTION: rickspencer3 to review how paper cut effort is working for the team next week
    • RESULT: while some tweaks to process might be valuable if done again, the effort appears to be working fairly smoothly.

Partner Update

Ubuntu One

Status

  • desktop couchdb
    • being packaged
  • client records api
    • package ready, needs to go to REVU
  • evolution using couch for storage
    • evolution-couchdb and couchdb-glib are in REVU
  • file syncing
    • in universe, waiting MIR approval
  • generic contact picker UI
    • not started yet, might slip
  • screen sharing
    • might slip
  • firefox bookmarks syncing
    • being packaged

More MIRs coming this week, including couchdb and it's dependencies

DX Team
  • FUSA: basic features done but not ready to ship. Ted said it was pushed, but I haven't found it on LP yet.

Release Bugs/Release Status

Karmic Bugs

Id

Title

Assigned To

Status

Importance

Package

Release

Milestone

Team

Date Confirmed

Tags

347972

Does not work with Shiretoko Web Browser (Firefox 3.5)

asac

In Progress

High

ubufox (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

ubuntu-9.10-beta

2009-04-02 20:12:50.923788+00:00

339313

Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key

jr

New

High

plasma-widget-network-manager (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

None

392593

[karmic regression] cannot connect to wireless network

jr

Confirmed

Undecided

plasma-widget-network-manager (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

2009-06-27 16:00:04.771809+00:00

regression-potential wireless

388898

Move Empathy Dependencies to Main and Update Desktop Seed

ken-vandine

Incomplete

Undecided

telepathy-butterfly (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

None

388898

Move Empathy Dependencies to Main and Update Desktop Seed

ken-vandine

New

Undecided

gupnp-igd (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

None

395324

'These windows do not support save current setup....' metacity warning when logging in with gdm 2.26

pitti

In Progress

Medium

gdm (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

2009-07-03 23:37:39.544958+00:00

amd64 apport-bug

386699

Mistakes external USB flash disk for system-internal disk

pitti

Triaged

Medium

gvfs (Ubuntu Karmic)

karmic

2009-07-03 21:10:07.052310+00:00

amd64 apport-bug regression-potential

Jaunty Bugs

Id

Title

Assigned To

Status

Importance

Package

Release

Milestone

Team

Date Confirmed

Tags

314928

[i915GM] MTRR entry gets removed when restarting xorg - causes corruption on ttys

bryceharrington

Fix Committed

Critical

xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

jaunty-updates

2009-05-11 18:02:28.838832+00:00

corruption intel jaunty mtrr regression-release

347569

[RS482] low performance due to removal of _tnl_ProgramCacheInit()

bryceharrington

Confirmed

High

mesa (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

2009-06-25 19:12:28.299352+00:00

apport-bug i386

361115

nm-connection-editor crashs after clicking Cancel in the add new connection dialog

asac

Fix Committed

High

network-manager-applet (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

later

2009-04-15 14:17:16.476277+00:00

396991

[HSO] Vodafone K3760 Dongle connection fault

asac

Triaged

High

network-manager (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

2009-07-08 12:46:25.544296+00:00

360905

Network-Manager not seeing broadband card

asac

In Progress

High

network-manager (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

2009-05-06 12:55:39.876909+00:00

274605

Firefox release notes show Ubuntu release notes

asac

In Progress

High

ubufox (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

jaunty-updates

2009-05-02 15:25:42.045563+00:00

apport-bug

305394

No subpixel smoothing

asac

Confirmed

Medium

fontconfig (Ubuntu Jaunty)

jaunty

ubuntu-9.04-beta

2009-01-03 02:27:06.321395+00:00

Empathy in Alpha 3

Team agreed that Empathy should be moved in Karmic for alpha 3, and not wait for butterfly (MSN). seb128 believes it works fine with libpurple. Also discussed empathy being built with webkit. This supports theming, but rickspencer3 is concerned about accessibility.

Bluetooth

asac investigating whether to use gnome-bluetooth and blueman for Bluetooth front end. Asks the team to try both and report back for next team meeting.

Activity reports

Alexander Sack (asac)

  • network manager 0.8 + modemmanager in karmic evaluation and discussion
  • xulrunner 1.9.1 porting /ffox35 spec
    • ported couchdb, miro, pcmanx-gtk2, virt-viewer, gnome-web-photo, gtk-vnc
    • did liferea merge in order to use webkit
    • discuss future of epiphany with seb; waiting for upstream decision on webkit; otherwise we need porting
  • bluetooth frontend discussion and evaluation
    • mail exchange with upstreams on roadmap etc.
    • discussing pros- and cons with superm
    • filing bugs on blueman
  • fix (at least all) segfaults in gwibber and commit upstream
  • more community support and discussion about ffox 3.5 branding
  • mentoring old mozillateam contributor (bluekuja)
  • submit a packaging training session.
  • MIR processing for UNR and llvm

Arne Goetje (ArneGoetje)

  • langpack-o-matic test run with the first full-export for Karmic: some minor tweaks needed for the Chinese langpack split
  • Rosetta: renaming/merging KDE translation templates
  • Rosetta: cleaning the import queue
  • hack language-selector to support the Chinese langpack split
  • finish the Main Inclusion Report for ibus and modules
  • check that the oo.o templates are all imported in Rosetta
  • discussing new Rosetta tarball export times: Karmic will be exported on Saturdays and Wednesdays at 22:00 UTC

Bryce Harrington (bryce)

  • Sponsored mesa (#396667)
  • Uploaded new -intel snapshot, closing a mess of bugs
  • Mass triaging of -intel bug reports
  • Forwarded bunches of -intel bugs upstream
  • Follow up on bugs from previous weeks
  • Improve graphing scripts to display Q3 properly
  • Experiment with bzr for X git trees
  • Inkscape bugs

Chris Cheney (calc)

Jonathan Riddell (Riddell)

Ken VanDine (kenvandine)

Last week:
  • Travel, Desktop Summit

This week:
  • Assist partners with packages in REVU or needing REVU
  • Assist partners with MIRs
  • Give the new online services features a run through for acceptance testing

Luke Yelavich (TheMuso)

Accessibility

  • Continued work on the gnome-speech replacement specification. Almost got to testing some new code I got written today, for tighter integration into a user's session, but of course the build broke in weird and wonderful ways when I attempted to do something sane. Will fix it tomorrow.
  • Updated gnome-orca, mousetweaks and gok to 2.27.4 in karmic.
  • Updated accerciser to 1.7.4 in karmic.
  • Attempted to get the apport retracer to give me a useful backtrace for a common speech-dispatcher crash, but no luck so far. Hopefully the latest bug I've filed should work.

Audio

  • Audio bug triaging, bugs in question are against pulseaudio, alsa userspace, and the kernel for hardware enablement.
  • Uploaded gnome-media 2.27.4 to karmic.
  • Updated pavucontrol to the latest git head in the ubuntu-audio-dev PPA, since it has some new functionality to work with the version of pulse already there.
  • Started trying to debug why pulseaudio mutes and zeroes audio levels, but with little success so far.
  • Got feedback re rtkit from Kees' security audit. Need to send the comments upstream as I am in no position to comment on the requests Kees has made.
  • Continue to track kernel activity upstream to see if Lennart's patches have landed in mainline for use with rtkit.

Misc

  • Found that the touchpad on my notebook wasn't working due to missing synaptics package/driver.

Martin Pitt (pitti)

Karmic spec drafting: all approved

Karmic feature work:

  • desktop-karmic-automagic-python-build-system: no progress this week
  • desktop-karmic-symptom-based-bug-reporting: no progress this week
  • hal deprecation:

    • updated gvfs gphoto porting to David Zeuthen's feedback, sent upstream again
  • gnome-panel speedup: no development progress this week; this will be attacked after above three, since this does not have reverse dependencies

Other work done:

  • Spent most of the week fixing regressions with the new gdm
  • Created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/PolicyKitOneMigration

  • Bug fixing: apport, devicekit-disks, gvfs
  • More i915 debugging and feedback to upstream; working really well now on my GM945
  • libsgutils2 SONAME migration
  • Ported gnome-{panel,session}, gdm, consolekit to polkit-1 API using upstream patches
  • updated glib2.0 to new upstream version
  • Ported jockey to polkit-1

Sponsoring:

  • gnome-menus, gnome-power-manager, gnupg, gnupg2, libxklavier

Robert Ancell (robert_ancell)

Sebastien Bacher (seb128)

  • spent half of the week at the desktop summit
  • catching up with emails and bugs after the summit
  • GNOME updates: gtk+ rhythmbox gnome-keyring gnome-panel gtk+ gjs

evolution-data-server gtkhtml evolution evolution-exchange libsoup evince file-roller gnome-keyring

  • spent a while on the gtk update to get the directfb backend to build
  • looked a the new gtk bugs to make sure the client side changes don't

break too many things

  • backported some gtk git changes to fix issues
  • tracked some other desktopish issues
  • gnome-system-monitor deskbar-applet

Tony Espy (awe)

Till Kamppeter (tkamppeter)

  • Uploaded HPLIP 3.9.6b, a bug fix release from HP
  • Uploaded foomatic-filters and foomatic-db: Now the HP DesignJets 30, 70, 90, 100, 100+, 110, 120, 130, 500, 800, 5000, 5500 work on Karmic.

  • Uploaded Ghostscript: Small adjustment for the color output of the DesignJets

  • Investigations on Brother HL-730 printing garbage (LP: #325616): In contrary to other Brother printers it has legacy emulations (PCL, ESC/P, ...). Seems that the printer is configured to one of them.
  • Discussion (with pitti and Tim Waugh) and investigations on doing Plug'n'Print via udev instead of via HAL, as part of deprecating HAL.
  • Answered and triaged printing-related bug reports.

IRC Logs

[17:32] <rickspencer3> starting with actions from two weeks ago
[17:32] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: what is the eta for FUSA?
[17:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: (FYI, I copied the relevant actions to last week's report)
[17:32] <seb128> lol
[17:32] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, ted couldn't give an eta yet, he said all the features are implemented and not ready to ship
[17:33] <kenvandine> told me to try it on from source, but i couldn't find it on LP
[17:33] <kenvandine> he is on vacation this week, i will mail him
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ok, we can carry that over
[17:33] <rickspencer3> I think the "install and try gdm" is no longer relevant
[17:34] <pitti> everyone should have it now, indeed
[17:34] <rickspencer3> thanks for getting than in seb128, and thanks for helping with bugs pitti
[17:35] <rickspencer3> bryce: are we still expecting to have X pretty much "in" for alpha three, so we stop using edgers?
[17:35] <rickspencer3> This refers to: ACTION: All: run edgers until alpha 3, and then disable (if currently running or otherwise interested)
[17:35] <tkamppeter> Yes, my gdm looks ugly now and I get some message after logging in, but this is already reported.
[17:36] <rickspencer3> tkamppeter: thanks
[17:36] <rickspencer3> k, moving along ...
[17:37] <rickspencer3> # ACTION: ALL: install mozilla security update, report problems to asac
[17:37] <bryce> rickspencer3, that's correct
[17:37] <rickspencer3> Smile :)
[17:37] <asac> rickspencer3: that was ment to be "please enable security PPA permanently - e.g. not an instant action"
[17:37] <bryce> rickspencer3, although scuttlebutt is that xserver 1.7 is behind schedule upstream so YMMV
[17:37] <asac> even though we have new 3.0 bits in there yet
[17:37] <pitti> bryce: how's ati KMS coming along? ISTR it was disabled by default in one of the recent kernel uploads?
[17:37] <rickspencer3> !
[17:37] <bryce> (OMMV?)
[17:37] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[17:38] <asac> s/yet/already/
[17:38] <pitti> asac: does that apply to karmic as well?
[17:38] <asac> yes
[17:38] <asac> we prepublish karmic bits there too
[17:38] <asac> so testing that helps catching regressions
[17:38] <bryce> pitti, I didn't hear about that, but the first 2.6.31 kernel was a bit rocky for us
[17:39] <pitti> asac: it's not feasible/practical to upload them to karmic straight instead?
[17:39] <bryce> currently what we're using xorg-edgers for is testing out the -ati kms stuff
[17:39] <pitti> ah, so that should have it? nice
[17:39] <pitti> I'll test it on my wife's computer soon
[17:39] <bryce> excellent
[17:39] <asac> pitti: in general we are not allowed to ship releases before mozilla releases them
[17:40] <asac> to avoid confusion i dont do that anymore
[17:40] <pitti> asac: I see; so they are fine with PPAs then?
[17:40] <asac> yes
[17:40] <asac> thats ok. just should stay out of anything that is official
[17:41] <rickspencer3> okay, so please, everyone get the mozilla security ppa set up by next week
[17:41] <asac> thx
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to review how paper cut effort is working for the team next week
[17:41] <rickspencer3> this seems to be going fairly well
[17:42] <rickspencer3> though it seems that many of the paper cuts are indeed more like stab wounds, as expected
[17:42] <awe> +1
[17:42] <pitti> ^ for a reason
[17:42] <rickspencer3> please contact me outside the meeting if there are concerns, or we can discuss after the meeting
[17:42] <pitti> many of those are open for months/years _because_ they aren't trivial to solve Smile :)
[17:42] <pitti> but great to hear the progress there (also djsiegel_'s last report, that sounded pretty good)
[17:42] <rickspencer3> right, though some of them seem like they get endless debate
[17:42] <rickspencer3> that is not really needed
[17:43] <pitti> sure, GUI issues are very prone to bikeshedding after all :/
[17:43] <asac> i think that papercuts should be vetted to be real papercuts by the platform team and not the design team. design team should suggest them not decide which get approved (but thats a discussion for later)
[17:43] * rickspencer3 doesn't want to open a can of works now
[17:43] <rickspencer3> Smile :)
[17:43] <bryce> I noticed a lot need design decisions made (like for wording, or to select between several suggested solutions), that I didn't feel qualified to make a decision on
[17:43] * pitti hands rickspencer3 a worm
[17:43] * asac is happy he got his line out Wink ;)
[17:44] <rickspencer3> okay, I feel that we are making good progress ... and that if we ever repeat the effort, we will have some good process improvements
[17:44] <rickspencer3> so that's the "previous actions" section
[17:44] <rickspencer3> next is status reports
[17:45] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: care to add anything to your very familiar looking status section?
[17:45] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-07-14
[17:45] <kenvandine> ?
[17:45] <kenvandine> well the partner update should cover it Smile :)
[17:46] <rickspencer3> sorry ... I just meant, do you have any comments aside from what is on the wiki?
[17:46] <kenvandine> oh, no Smile :)
[17:46] <rickspencer3> I like the way you have the seven buckets for the OLS team, it would be good if we could do something like that for the DXE team
[17:46] <pitti> kenvandine: oh, I didn't see MIR bugs for ubuntuone-*?
[17:46] <asac> kenvandine: "firefox bookmarks syncing " -> is that something that is run in firefox?
[17:46] * kenvandine is a little concerned with getting these new packages reviewed, etc
[17:46] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to help create buckets for DXE team
[17:47] <kenvandine> pitti, they are there Smile :)
[17:47] <kenvandine> asac, an extension
[17:47] <kenvandine> well, syncing happens in u1/couchdb
[17:47] <asac> kenvandine: you guys should really talk to me more ... you plan to do really many things with firefox i dont know about et
[17:47] <kenvandine> but there is an extension that integrates with it
[17:47] <pitti> kenvandine: good to know, I didn't get mail about it, weird
[17:47] <kenvandine> asac, sorry... there is a blueprint Smile :)
[17:47] <kenvandine> asac, steveA demoed it last week
[17:47] <pitti> kenvandine: ooh - these are against projects, not ubuntu packges, that's why
[17:48] <asac> kenvandine: well, if you dont communicat we will not be able to ship it
[17:48] <kenvandine> asac, i am trying to keep you guys in the loop here
[17:48] <rickspencer3> ACTION: kenvandine to facilitate discussion between SteveA and asac regarding firefox extension
[17:48] <asac> kenvandine: ok thanks
[17:48] <kenvandine> asac, it has been on that status table for a few weeks now
[17:48] <rickspencer3> asac: I thought SteveA did mention this to you ... I fear that I must have dropped the ball
[17:48] <kenvandine> i should have singled you out though, sorry
[17:48] <asac> rickspencer3: there was some remote talk at some point. but nothing concrete
[17:49] <rickspencer3> I think it must have been my fault for not bringing it up after one of our desktop integration calls
[17:49] <asac> ok
[17:49] * rickspencer3 administers self-dope slap
[17:50] <pitti> kenvandine: fixed MIR bugs, will get to them ASAP
[17:50] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: pitti: I'm a little concerned that pitti did not see mail about the MIR
[17:50] <kenvandine> pitti, rock!
[17:50] <pitti> rickspencer3: as I said, they were reported against upstream projects (where MIR doesn't make sense), my filter doesn't jump on those
[17:50] <pitti> MIR is for ubuntu packages
[17:50] <pitti> fixed now
[17:50] <kenvandine> oh
[17:50] <asac> hehe
[17:50] <pitti> (the bugs)
[17:50] <rickspencer3> k
[17:51] <kenvandine> pitti, we can't assign them to ubuntu source packages until they are in ubuntu Smile :)
[17:51] <asac> kenvandine: you cannot file MIRs for packages that are not in the archive imo
[17:51] <pitti> kenvandine: right, that's a feature
[17:51] <rickspencer3> kenvandine: you said you were concerned about getting everything reviewed, is there anything we should be doing to help?
[17:51] <kenvandine> Smile :)
[17:51] <asac> they should be first in universe
[17:51] <kenvandine> asac, yeah... we did the MIRs in parallel
[17:51] <kenvandine> while they were in REVU
[17:52] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, not yet... i need to get them in REVU first.. i will ping people individual for help as needed
[17:52] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:52] <kenvandine> i just worry if it takes as long as u1 did
[17:52] * rickspencer3 nods
[17:52] <kenvandine> pitti, MIRs for couchdb and it's deps should come this week
[17:52] <kenvandine> just fyi
[17:52] <pitti> cool
[17:53] <pitti> we worked out a new process in the MIR team
[17:53] <pitti> to get them processed in a better/faster way
[17:53] <asac> couchdb still has the problem with libmozjs.so
[17:53] <kenvandine> anything i should change in my process?
[17:53] <kenvandine> asac, yeah...
[17:53] <pitti> kenvandine: not really, please just make sure that they are against ubuntu packages
[17:53] <asac> kenvandine: please dont file MIRs before thy are packaged
[17:53] <pitti> kenvandine: the change was internal (I'm the gatekeeper now and distribute MIR reviewers by assignment)
[17:53] <kenvandine> i just won't create the bug reports
[17:54] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[17:54] <rickspencer3> I believe that Riddell is recovering from desktop summit, so not expecting a Kubuntu update
[17:54] <rickspencer3> just a quick update on quickly
[17:54] <rickspencer3> I think it is close to "feature complete" ... I will schedule a meeting to discuss release plans for it
[17:54] <rickspencer3> let me know if you want to attend that meeting
[17:55] <rickspencer3> we'll discuss feature prioritization, getting it into the archives, etc...
[17:55] <rickspencer3> I was in meetings all day, so I haven't had a chance to look at activity reports, but I presume they are all on the wiki or in my mail box
[17:56] <didrocks> (for quickly: I still have little feature to implement on release command and distutilsextra.auto to make it works)
[17:56] * asac coughs
[17:56] <rickspencer3> lol
[17:56] <rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
[17:57] <rickspencer3> btw, on a total side note .. python-distutils-extra is very cool
[17:57] <rickspencer3> !
[17:57] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[17:57] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, ++
[17:57] <pitti> thanks Smile :)
[17:57] <kenvandine> pitti, it does rock
[17:57] <kenvandine> pitti, i showed it off at desktop summit Smile :)
[17:58] <rickspencer3> okay, so we have some Karmic targeted bugs, please be mindful of them if they are assigned to you
[17:58] <rickspencer3> next is discussion section
[17:58] * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti for empathy in alpha 3 discussion
[17:58] <kenvandine> pitti, papyon is in debian NEW still
[17:58] <kenvandine> and ted is still reviewing the indicator patch
[17:58] <pitti> right, so we are currently a bit blocked by a pymsn fork
[17:59] <pitti> I wondered whether we should wait until it's all resolved, to deliver the "full" experience
[17:59] <pitti> or temporarily drop the butterfly recommends, and get it into the dailes right now
[17:59] <pitti> and add butterfly (MSN) when it's ready
[17:59] * kenvandine votes for shipping without
[17:59] <seb128> drop the recommends it works fine with haze
[17:59] <kenvandine> true
[17:59] * rickspencer3 votes for shipping early and often
[17:59] <pitti> for CD size calculation, and general testing it would be nice to get it in ASAP
[18:00] <pitti> seb128: even better then
[18:00] <pitti> seb128: -haze is libpurple?
[18:00] <seb128> yes
[18:00] <seb128> you will get msn by libpurple
[18:00] <pitti> ok, seems pretty much unanimous?
[18:00] <seb128> which works fine
[18:00] <kenvandine> pitti, do you agree the empathy human theme belongs in ubuntu-artwork?
[18:00] * rickspencer3 thinks kenvandine is obsessed with empathy human theme
[18:00] <kenvandine> i think that was kwwii's preference
[18:00] <rickspencer3> Wink ;)
[18:00] * kenvandine wants to deliver the experience Smile :)
[18:01] <seb128> is empathy built with webkit now?
[18:01] <seb128> and without geolocation?
[18:01] <kenvandine> i don't think it is in karmic
[18:01] <pitti> apparently not?
[18:01] <seb128> should it?
[18:01] * kenvandine thinks so, webkit that is
[18:01] <kenvandine> not geoloc
[18:01] <seb128> right
[18:02] <pitti> oh, it is built with webkit indeed
[18:02] <pitti> I keep forgetting that it's in main Smile :)
[18:02] <rickspencer3> uh ... does building with webkit impact the accessibility?
[18:02] * rickspencer3 assumes the answer is a simple "no"
[18:02] <kenvandine> so the adium support is much better in trunk... so 2.27.4 will be better
[18:03] <seb128> dunno but GNOME is actively discussing the topic
[18:03] <seb128> they revisit webkit by default for 2.28
[18:03] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, well, that is only chat itself
[18:03] <pitti> ok, so I'll re-add empathy to the seeds, and check how tomorrow's CD will break Smile :)
[18:03] <kenvandine> not sure if a11y matter in that context
[18:03] <seb128> seems many issue have been fixed and they are trying to aim at having it for 2.28
[18:03] <kenvandine> i guess it does for screen readers, etc
[18:03] <kenvandine> good question
[18:04] <rickspencer3> could someone please confirm that building with webkit does not impact accessibility?
[18:04] * kenvandine doesn't know much about a11y
[18:04] <seb128> best way to know is to upload and wait for bugs
[18:04] <rickspencer3> or to be clearer, that it is accessible if built with web kit
[18:04] <kenvandine> yeah
[18:04] <seb128> that would be a question for themuso rather
[18:05] <pitti> might be a question for TheMuso in the eastern edition?
[18:05] <rickspencer3> ok, I can buy that
[18:05] <rickspencer3> I'll mention it to TheMuso as well
[18:05] <kenvandine> thx
[18:05] <pitti> it is built with webkit already
[18:05] <kenvandine> great
[18:05] <rickspencer3> however, I think we should all be mindful of accessibility in all our deciscions
[18:05] <pitti> I wonder why, though, it doesn't look very HTMLish?
[18:05] <rickspencer3> it's a requirement, not a "nice to have"
[18:05] <kenvandine> it is far better with 2.27.4... i can't wait for it to be released Smile :)
[18:05] <pitti> IOW, what does empathy use webkit for in the first place? just text markup?
[18:05] <kenvandine> pitti, it supports adium themes
[18:05] <seb128> rickspencer3, as said GNOME discuss webkit for 2.28 now
[18:05] <rickspencer3> I'm sure it's fine, I just hear "webkit" and think "inaccesible"
[18:06] <kenvandine> popular on other platforms
[18:06] <kenvandine> renders the chats nicer
[18:06] <seb128> I would tend to follow them they will not switch if it's not ready for accessibility too
[18:06] <rickspencer3> seb128: ack
[18:06] <rickspencer3> let's move on ...
[18:06] <rickspencer3> asac: bluetooth?
[18:06] <asac> so we are close to the point where we want to decide which bluetooth frontend to use for karmic
[18:06] <asac> and later
[18:07] <asac> gnome-bluetooth and blueman
[18:07] <asac> i got a bunch of user feedback and did upstream discussion
[18:07] <pitti> do we have a kind of feature comparison sheet?
[18:07] <asac> and will prepare the facts for next weeks
[18:07] <asac> for this week i would like to ask anyone to use both: gnome-bleutooth and blueman
[18:07] <asac> (if possible)
[18:07] <asac> so you have an opinion on your own
[18:07] <pitti> IIRC g-b was "lean and easy", and blueman "very functional, and advanced"? is that a valid coarse categorization?
[18:08] <asac> also please file bugs and push them to me so we can probe how responsive upstream is in general
[18:08] <seb128> gnome-bluetooth will be discussed this week for GNOME 2.28
[18:08] * pitti can try file sync, but not much else, it's the only kind of device I have
[18:08] <asac> pitti: try them and decide if thats the categorization you would assign to them Wink ;)
[18:08] <pitti> asac: roget
[18:08] <pitti> roger, too
[18:08] <asac> for me there is nothing easier in g-bt
[18:08] <asac> Smile :)
[18:09] <seb128> has blueman a fixed schedule for new versions, good translations, etc?
[18:09] * seb128 needs to get a bluetooth device to play with those
[18:09] <asac> they are not a GNOME project. but i guess they will cooperate
[18:09] <asac> but we can talk about the details next week
[18:10] <rickspencer3> ACTION: everyone try both bluetooth front ends, report experience to asac next team meeting
[18:10] <asac> thanks
[18:10] <rickspencer3> thanks asac
[18:10] <rickspencer3> that's everything on the agenda
[18:10] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:11] <rickspencer3> ok ... I think Karmic is really shaping up nicely
[18:11] <pitti> +1
[18:11] <rickspencer3> I'd like to throw some kudos to bryce for doing a great job with X and managing x bugs so far this release
[18:12] <rickspencer3> also, the kubuntu team is creating a kubuntu netbook version, this should be very cool
[18:12] <rickspencer3> meeting adjourned?
[18:12] <bryce> thanks
[18:12] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[18:12] <seb128> thanks everybody
[18:13] * kenvandine is testing bluetooth... wishing the G1 supported file transfer
[18:13] <pitti> thanks everyone
[18:13] <awe> see ya
[18:13] * seb128 goes back to celebrating the national holiday


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DesktopTeam/Meeting/2009-07-14 (last edited 2009-07-15 00:04:26 by rick-rickspencer3)