20120325

Meeting started by AlanBell at 18:00:47 UTC. The full logs are available at http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-25-18.00.log.html .

Meeting summary

  • Review last meetings action items
    • Pici to send mail to the list about the guidelines document to encourage edits and fixes to the FIXMEs (AlanBell, 18:03:08)

    • Pici to work on the list of expired members (AlanBell, 18:06:51)

    • oCean to edit the guide to add advice on support questions in -offtopic (AlanBell, 18:08:08)

LINK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide (AlanBell, 18:09:44)

  • Open items in the IRCC tracker
  • Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council
    • bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson (AlanBell, 18:11:29)

    • bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi (AlanBell, 18:12:05)

    • bug 892500 eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu -ikonia (AlanBell, 18:20:27)

ACTION: people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500 (AlanBell, 18:31:14)

  • bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell (AlanBell, 18:32:18)

  • bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell (AlanBell, 18:32:43)

  • Set all operators to renew at same time via LP so people can plan to deal with the renewals nicely

LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ankl5FhsdSiZdEtaNkRRM0xIdWtrTnBKalhZUkdxLXc (AlanBell, 18:45:01)

  • Any Other Business

Meeting ended at 18:55:44 UTC.

Votes

Action items

  • people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500

Action items, by person

  • ubottu
  • * people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500

People present (lines said)

  • AlanBell (79)

  • ikonia (42)
  • topyli (36)
  • Pici (36)
  • pangolin (13)
  • funkyHat (7)
  • ubottu (6)
  • Myrtti (5)
  • MrChrisDruif (5)

  • meetingology (4)
  • oCean (2)
  • SilverLion (1)

  • Tm_T (1)
  • bioterror (1)

Full Log

  • 18:00:47 <AlanBell> #startmeeting ircc meeting

    18:00:47 <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Mar 25 18:00:47 2012 UTC. The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.

    18:00:47 <meetingology>

    18:00:47 <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired

    18:01:09 <AlanBell> agenda is over here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda

    18:01:54 <AlanBell> so who is here for the meeting o/

    18:02:13 <topyli> o/

    18:02:23 <funkyHat> รด//

    18:02:28 <bioterror> \o

    18:02:33 <Pici> cogito, ergo sum.

    18:02:40 <topyli> heh

    18:03:01 <AlanBell> #topic Review last meetings action items

    18:03:08 <AlanBell> #progress Pici to send mail to the list about the guidelines document to encourage edits and fixes to the FIXMEs

    18:03:15 <MrChrisDruif> o/

    18:03:48 <Pici> I put together an email about the wrong thing. Sooo.. I didn't send that, but should have this email out either today or tomorrow.

    18:03:55 <AlanBell> ok, that would be great

    18:04:03 <topyli> good

    18:04:10 <AlanBell> I did a bit of tinkering with the guidelines etherpad

    18:04:26 <AlanBell> I think it is nearly ready to go

    18:04:33 <Pici> great

    18:05:04 <topyli> AlanBell: so you left few FIXMEs to fix? Smile :)

    18:05:27 <AlanBell> I removed a few of them

    18:05:46 <AlanBell> I think there are a couple left

    18:06:04 <topyli> ok, good progress

    18:06:23 <AlanBell> lets have another go at finishing that off this week and get it published at the next meeting if possible

    18:06:48 <topyli> yes, would be nice to close this bug

    18:06:48 <AlanBell> another pici action now

    18:06:51 <AlanBell> #progress Pici to work on the list of expired members

    18:06:57 <AlanBell> get anywhere with that?

    18:07:36 <Pici> Not really. I'll take care of it though.

    18:07:38 <Pici> .30

    18:08:01 <AlanBell> ok

    18:08:08 <AlanBell> #progress oCean to edit the guide to add advice on support questions in -offtopic

    18:08:26 <AlanBell> hmm, which guide was that supposed to be?

    18:09:09 <AlanBell> that was relating to the supporters guide

    18:09:17 <Pici> Was it?

    18:09:28 <Pici> I think we asked this same question about this item last time too...

    18:09:44 <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/SupportersGuide

    18:09:53 <AlanBell> at the very bottom

    18:09:56 <AlanBell> so this item is done

    18:10:04 <topyli> great

    18:10:34 <AlanBell> ok, that concludes the actions from the last meeting

    18:10:40 <AlanBell> #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker

    18:10:46 <AlanBell> we have no open items \o/

    18:10:49 <topyli> more than that, it's done well

    18:10:56 <topyli> woo!

    18:11:00 <MrChrisDruif> Hurray

    18:11:16 <AlanBell> #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council

    18:11:23 <AlanBell> no new bugs

    18:11:29 <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 788503 IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric - tsimpson

    18:11:31 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 788503 in ubuntu-community "IRC Guidelines too #ubuntu centric" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788503

    18:11:46 <AlanBell> this is in progress and we want to sort it out for the next meeting

    18:11:53 <Pici> indeed.

    18:12:05 <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 884671 Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly - jussi

    18:12:07 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 884671 in ubuntu-community "Ubuntu IRC operator recruitment is slow and ungainly" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/884671

    18:12:34 <topyli> i'm not convinced that jussi has had the chance to really look into this

    18:12:52 <topyli> he recently gained a real life Smile :)

    18:12:55 <ikonia> it's odd that this has been raised since jussi was one of the main people who pushed the existing process

    18:13:03 <Pici> heh

    18:13:15 <AlanBell> yeah, but thats fine, I just put the person who raised the bug in the agenda

    18:13:17 <Tm_T> ikonia: that only means he cares of the process

    18:13:24 <topyli> ikonia: it's good to have him lead fixing it then. he agrees with the premise

    18:13:39 <ikonia> what's actually looking at being changed though ?

    18:13:49 <AlanBell> we have had a few people apply for ops in #ubuntustudio, great to see that project reanimated

    18:13:54 <Pici> Nothing wrong with taking another look at the process as a whole.

    18:14:07 <ikonia> more so as ubuntustudio is understaffed

    18:14:26 <AlanBell> ikonia: well for one, we are doing applications from existing ops as they happen, and we did process all the applications in all the queues from existing ops

    18:14:28 <topyli> ikonia: we want to be able to appoint ops without the process, when we know the people to be good

    18:14:45 <ikonia> topyli: wasn't that how it was before the existing process was put in place ?

    18:15:02 <ikonia> AlanBell: yeah, it was nice to see that

    18:15:04 <AlanBell> the other thing we are doing is batching recruitment a bit and doing the induction thing a bit differently

    18:15:05 <topyli> the current process makes it easier for us to evaluate people whom we don't know

    18:15:48 <ikonia> AlanBell: the post-acceptence stuff is really good, I'm looking at the application and post acceptence as two seperate things

    18:17:23 <Pici> We should really reach out to our new ops as we get them and ask them if they think the process could have been done better.

    18:17:54 <MrChrisDruif> So like asking me? Wink ;-)

    18:18:10 <topyli> ikonia: i think the current thinking is that we should have both ways at our disposal. the current process for people we don't know, and the "just do it" approach to people that we do know

    18:18:26 <topyli> Pici: yeah, what did they find difficult or annoying, and what was useful

    18:18:35 <ikonia> seems sensible

    18:18:47 <Pici> Aye.

    18:18:53 <AlanBell> well I think at the time of the precise launch we want to kick off another intake of ops across a wider selection of channels

    18:18:59 <ikonia> the current new guys may not be the best measure as lots of it was being setup as they where being brought on board

    18:19:22 <MrChrisDruif> The current process is that a op first gets approved, then after two months evaluated for continuation?

    18:19:53 <topyli> three months iirc, but yeah

    18:20:05 <AlanBell> three months, but yes, that is part of it, but this is more about how we find ops and when we process the applications etc

    18:20:10 <pangolin> only two months? I've been an op for a year or so now and still being evaluated

    18:20:11 <AlanBell> anyhow, lets move along

    18:20:27 <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 892500 eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu -ikonia

    18:20:29 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500

    18:20:30 <topyli> pangolin: everybody's being evaluated anyway Smile :)

    18:20:35 <pangolin> topyli, Smile :)

    18:20:51 <MrChrisDruif> Alright, clear

    18:20:52 <AlanBell> would like to see a bit more on the eir like functionality from other bots

    18:21:08 <AlanBell> there has been a bit of a trial of ubottu-fr

    18:21:17 <AlanBell> how has that been going?

    18:21:24 <topyli> how much did moving the eir nagging out of -ops-team help?

    18:21:37 <ikonia> the ubottu-fr stuff seems good

    18:21:58 <pangolin> topyli, there is less nagging in -ops-team, that is the only difference I have seen

    18:22:07 <funkyHat> It means -ops-team is usable, not sure how it's affected the banlist in #u though Wink ;)

    18:22:08 <Pici> I for one am very glad that -ops-team can actually be used instead of it being nearly flooded by eir.

    18:22:35 <ikonia> eir as a tool does not effect the ban list

    18:22:36 <ikonia> it adds value auto-removing the floodbots

    18:22:40 <Pici> Also, I don't think that ubotu-fr is in #ubuntu anymore, or at least its not doing any reporting in -monitor.

    18:22:43 <ikonia> they where the main cause of the ban list filling up

    18:22:52 <ikonia> Pici: it's been pm'ing

    18:22:57 <Pici> Ah.

    18:23:08 <Myrtti> Pici: it's been pm'ing, and it's also muted in #ubuntu, by me

    18:23:25 <Myrtti> as a Ubuntu copy it was responding to factoid requests

    18:23:26 <Pici> I haven't been able to do alot of opping in #ubuntu lately (work = busy)

    18:23:35 <ikonia> the overall functionality of it has been good though

    18:23:37 <ikonia> been a little confusing as I keep forgetting which bot we are meant to be using

    18:23:54 <ikonia> in my view pushing forward with ubottu-fr is worth while as out of the box it beat eir for usability

    18:24:00 <AlanBell> so what does ubottu-fr do exactly?

    18:24:18 <ikonia> pretty much the base functionality of eir

    18:24:18 <pangolin> it does everything eir does + ubottu

    18:24:42 <ikonia> you get banned it asks you to set a comment on it, updates BT with a relevent comment in the right ban id etc etc

    18:24:55 <ikonia> if it can auto remove floodbot bans I think it will be pretty much perfect

    18:25:16 <ikonia> the main thing for me is the auto removal of floodbot bans, keep the ban list ok, then functionality that feeds into BT,

    18:25:35 <ikonia> it seems a solid base to move forward from

    18:25:39 <topyli> fresh comments on the bug would be useful, so we can get some tangible indication of progress

    18:26:03 <ikonia> I'll put some feedback in on it,

    18:26:06 <AlanBell> so it updates the ubottu bantracker?

    18:26:10 <ikonia> AlanBell: correct

    18:26:15 <AlanBell> yay

    18:26:17 <topyli> ikonia: thanks

    18:26:28 <AlanBell> yeah, feedback on the bug would be perfect

    18:26:35 <ikonia> AlanBell: so when you query a ban, it reads from the same ban id

    18:26:37 <ikonia> all in sync etc.

    18:26:42 <ikonia> it's not %100 spot on, but it's a solid base for me

    18:26:56 <ikonia> the sooner we can use that and dump eir, then move on with ubottu as a base, the better it will be in my view

    18:27:05 <oCean> these bugs are filed against eir, but probably still exist when using ubottu-fr

    18:27:06 <AlanBell> if people could put their thoughts there, or on the mailing list or elsewhere that would be great, then we can talk about the next steps at the next meeting

    18:27:08 <ikonia> at the moment we are using a ton of bots so it's hard to get real usage

    18:27:11 <oCean> err these bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots?field.searchtext=[eir

    18:27:53 <ikonia> oCean: some of them are resolved in ubottu-fr

    18:27:53 <Pici> agreed having only 1 tool is better

    18:28:05 <topyli> absolutely

    18:28:07 <ikonia> I think we've been in ubottu/ubottu-fr/eir limbo for a while

    18:28:21 <ikonia> be nice to start pushing ubottu/ubottu-fr merge and start using it and fix bugs going forward

    18:28:25 <AlanBell> yup

    18:28:52 <pangolin> can't we just run our own instance of ubotu-fr?

    18:28:55 <Pici> how doed ubotu-fr handle floodbot bans?

    18:29:11 <ikonia> Pici: from what I've seen - nothing yet but nico was saying it can do it

    18:29:19 <ikonia> Pici: I don't think it's doing it as it would cause a fight with eir

    18:29:35 <ikonia> Pici: (not certain on that)

    18:29:37 <ikonia> that's why I'm saying dump eir, get ubottu merged and running, then fix going forward

    18:30:18 <AlanBell> pangolin: sure, but we had to try it out for a bit first

    18:30:20 <Pici> are we going to have to do manual removals in batches like we did previously?

    18:30:35 <ikonia> Pici: I'd check the functionality with nico

    18:30:48 <pangolin> AlanBell, I don't know that anyone has actually used it for actual ban handling

    18:31:07 <pangolin> it is there but has anyone set comments with u-fr?

    18:31:12 <Pici> i'll check with him and look at the code myself

    18:31:14 <AlanBell> #action people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500 18:31:14 * meetingology people to provide feedback on the ubottu-fr trial on bug 892500

    18:31:16 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500

    18:31:38 <topyli> heh

    18:32:18 <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 913541 there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group - AlanBell

    18:32:20 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541

    18:32:37 <AlanBell> oh, we talked about this one already

    18:32:43 <AlanBell> #subtopic bug 916247 devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention - AlanBell

    18:32:45 <ubottu> Launchpad bug 916247 in ubuntu-community "devel wiki on ubottu.com needs some attention" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/916247

    18:33:07 <AlanBell> it did get fixed, we were just keeping this bug around for a bit in case anyone felt like migrating the content to wiki.ubuntu.com

    18:33:27 <AlanBell> I tried a bit, but it does require quite a lot of manual reformatting to moin syntax

    18:34:00 <AlanBell> #topic Set all operators to renew at same time via LP so people can plan to deal with the renewals nicely

    18:34:29 <AlanBell> I did some tinkering with lplib to find out when people do expire, I will did that out in a sec

    18:34:42 <AlanBell> anyone think this is a startlingly good idea?

    18:35:11 <Pici> I think it'll fill up my inbox fast Wink ;)

    18:35:21 <pangolin> who clicks on the renew link for this?

    18:35:29 <funkyHat> It would mean I could more easily mass-archive all of the renewal emails I get

    18:35:43 <topyli> less regularly too

    18:35:51 <Pici> But seriously, it would be nice to deal with everthing at once

    18:36:03 <topyli> well, more regularly but less often

    18:37:11 <topyli> there will be cases where people have just renewed and will have to do it again

    18:38:04 <funkyHat> Unless we set everyone's renewals a year from now

    18:38:34 <AlanBell> well we could set them all to two years from now

    18:38:53 <AlanBell> or set them to all expire one week into the term of the next IRCC if we were feeling evil

    18:39:07 <Pici> tsk tsk

    18:39:07 <funkyHat> haha

    18:39:12 <topyli> hehe

    18:39:45 <AlanBell> I know one IT manager who set all the certificates in the business to expire one week after his 65th birthday

    18:40:10 <funkyHat> hahaha

    18:40:17 <topyli> nice farewell Smile :)

    18:40:57 <AlanBell> anyhow, back to the topic, is harmonising renewal dates a good idea?

    18:41:11 <ikonia> I see benifit, I see pain

    18:41:19 <funkyHat> I'm not especially concerned either way

    18:41:29 <Pici> me either

    18:41:38 <AlanBell> personally I can't see a net reduction in pain

    18:41:39 <topyli> it is a good idea. the problem is how we do it in practice. give it a year for everybody sounds good

    18:42:03 <Pici> i think we'll have issues qhen setting it for new ops

    18:42:05 <AlanBell> in practice someone sits down with lplib and a python script for an hour or two then presses a button

    18:43:54 <topyli> meh, i'm failing to have a clear opinion

    18:44:51 <Pici> perhaps staggering the potential loss of ops would be better....

    18:45:01 <AlanBell> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ankl5FhsdSiZdEtaNkRRM0xIdWtrTnBKalhZUkdxLXc

    18:46:52 <Pici> I dont really see an overwhelming need to change it right now.

    18:46:58 <AlanBell> that is it, now sorted by expiry date

    18:48:16 <AlanBell> yeah, right now I don't really see the problem that it solves

    18:48:39 <topyli> maybe we should shelf this. nobody seems to be able to come up with a problem we would solve... yeah

    18:48:43 <AlanBell> I guess we could give everyone a longer countdown, right now people have one week to press the button

    18:48:55 <AlanBell> and if they don't then they miss it, and we can sort it out

    18:48:55 <Myrtti> "here remember to set an alarm on your calendar"

    18:49:19 <AlanBell> given that I just made a spreadsheet with all the dates on we could do that bit anyway

    18:50:04 <pangolin> already spent more time on this than the bots issue

    18:50:13 <Pici> heh

    18:50:18 <AlanBell> ok, I think we should close this agenda item for the moment, it isn't remotely urgent and it is of questionable value

    18:50:23 <pangolin> I'm sure this is important but how important?

    18:50:27 <SilverLion> o/

    18:50:30 <Pici> Sounds good

    18:50:34 <AlanBell> #topic Any Other Business

    18:50:47 <AlanBell> does anyone have anything else they would like to raise? 18:51:10 * Pici thinks

    18:51:11 <topyli> salaries don't count

    18:51:14 <AlanBell> we should do some membership applications at some point, not done any of those yet

    18:51:21 * AlanBell doubles topyli's salary

    18:51:31 <topyli> still 0 Sad :( 18:51:45 * pangolin thinks

    18:51:57 <Pici> do we have any apps ine the queue?

    18:52:02 <AlanBell> nope

    18:52:11 <topyli> we're still not advertising irc membership enough

    18:52:11 <Myrtti> do we have a schedule for harmonizing the channel access lists?

    18:52:49 <Pici> Comparing with LP, or?

    18:52:56 <AlanBell> Myrtti: good question, I was going to try and do that in April sometime, I was pondering a semi-automatic way of doing so

    18:52:58 <pangolin> s/harmonizing/cleaning up/

    18:53:16 <Myrtti> Pici: and other means of communication

    18:53:35 <ikonia> question, is it worth revisiting (next meeting) the possability of merging some of the offtopic channels ?

    18:53:45 <ikonia> or is it a dead waste ?

    18:54:21 <AlanBell> yeah, we could talk about that

    18:54:27 <Pici> I think it would be a good discussion

    18:54:32 <pangolin> ikonia, I think it is a non-issue really. people want to relax in k-ot or whatever I don't see a reason to force them all into one channel.

    18:54:36 <topyli> theoretically, i'd like a single offtopic channel. but i'm not sure what the other 'flavors' would think

    18:54:37 <ikonia> if so I'll do an agenda item and put some points to/against it

    18:54:44 <AlanBell> ok

    18:54:50 <topyli> ikonia: good, thanks

    18:54:51 <ikonia> if people think it's worth while

    18:54:51 <Pici> a diacuasion fir another meeting.....

    18:55:23 <AlanBell> ok, all done?

    18:55:24 <Pici> topyli, me as well

    18:55:26 <Pici> yep

    18:55:35 <ikonia> I'll raise it then

    18:55:44 <AlanBell> #endmeeting

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MeetingLogs/IRCC/20120325 (last edited 2012-03-26 18:52:30 by alanbell1)