This is the 5th meeting of the ServerTeam, starting at 15:00 UTC and finishing at 16:24 UTC
Items we will be discussing:
Talk about specifications tracking and the need to clean them - NealMcBurnett
Update on the tasksel tasks - MathiasGug
Choose an official MTA postfix/exim - MathiasGug
- Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
- Agree on next meeting date and time.
mathiaz asked some help to setup the TeamReporting infrastructure so that the Ubuntu Server team can report about its activities and get them included into the monthly report of the Ubuntu project.
dantalizing offered his help.
ACTION: mathiaz and dantalizing will look after TeamReporting.
Specifications tracking and cleanup
nealmcb followed up on his email sent to ubuntu-server about outdated specifications. There are a lot of specifications registered in LP and in the wiki. However it's hard to figure out which one are still active and relevant. There was some discussion about using blueprints on LP to track the list. mathiaz suggested to go through the wiki pages marked with CategorySpec and subscribe ubuntu-server to all the relevant ones. nealmc wants to think about which tools should be used to handle that. He will send an email about this issue. No consensus was reached on what should be done about that.
ACTION: nealmcb will send an email to ubuntu-server ml about blueprints cleaning
Update on the tasksel tasks
soren presented his print-server task for tasksel. His proposal can be found at http://tinyurl.com/3czchw.
It includes the printconf package which is universe. However it's not possible to define tasks for tasksel that include packages in universe.
soren waits for feedback from ubuntu printing expert and may write an MIR for printconf.
Choose an official MTA postfix/exim
mathiaz brought up the topic of an official MTA as currently there are two MTA in main. lamont stated that there is already an default MTA, postfix. soren clarified the issue. Some packages come with a 'exim4 | m-t-a' dependency. The proposal is to update such packages to have 'postfix | m-t-a' instead.
lamont listed the main packages that are affected: backuppc, logcheck, mailman, mailx.
ACTION: soren will send an email to ubuntu-devel about using postfix as default package in control files.
Review ACTION points from previous meeting
sommer updated php5 pages in the wiki and in the ubuntu server guide. He also started to review other sections. pschulz01 also offered help to review the ubuntu server guide.
Anyone interested in reviewing the ubuntu server guide is welcomed to contact them.
ACTION: sommer and pschulz01 will start to review the ubuntu server guide. ACTION: sommer will add an item to the Roadmap.
Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap
nealmcb created a list of factoids that should be added to ubotu. The list can be found in the Roadmap page.
ACTION: nealmcb will send an email to ubuntu-server with the proposed factoids.
mathiaz gave an update about AppArmor: he has integrated the latest upstream version. The last kernel upload has the latest kernel module, so the userspace part of apparmor should be updated as well. keescook started to review mathiaz's bzr branch and will test it.
Next meeting will be on Tuesday, September the 25th, at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.
Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting [14:52:57] <mathiaz> The agenda for today is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting [14:53:36] <mathiaz> hi keescook ! [14:53:37] <soren> Hi, Kees! [14:53:44] <jdstrand> hi keescook ! [14:54:00] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Setup TeamReporting [14:54:03] * jdstrand thinks keescook is pretty popular this morning [14:54:41] <keescook> hiya folks! [14:54:51] <keescook> that's what I get for being late. ;) [14:54:55] <mathiaz> jono started an effort to implement reporting for each team part of Ubuntu [14:55:21] <mathiaz> the desktopteam, the kernelteam are already using it. [14:55:40] <mathiaz> everything is explained here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting [14:55:56] <mathiaz> the first step is to Nominate one or more people to overlook the team reporting [14:56:30] <mathiaz> I'd be happy to do that. Anyone else would like to help me ? [14:57:05] * soren hides behind his chair [14:57:21] <dantalizing> I'll help out [14:58:02] <Zic> @schedule Paris [14:58:04] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: Current meeting: Server Team meeting | 11 Sep 21:00: Technical Board | 12 Sep 22:00: Edubuntu | 13 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 18 Sep 17:00: Kernel Team | 19 Sep 14:00: Edubuntu [14:58:19] <pschulz01> I'm completely clear what get's copies where on the 22nd of each month. [14:58:41] <mathiaz> dantalizing: great ! I'll contact you to see how we can work together. [14:58:50] <soren> Rock! [14:58:51] <dantalizing> ok [14:59:20] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz and dantalizing will look after TeamReporting [14:59:40] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Talk about specifications tracking and the need to clean them [14:59:44] <nealmcb> I sent out an email last night about this agenda item. It agenda item started with my note about the outdated wiki "talk" page from 2005: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/talkd [15:00:19] <nealmcb> Ive had some frustration in the4 past - not easy to see which blueprints are current, what current status is [15:00:30] <nealmcb> Even this Bug 111610: can't see what is proposed for sprint, but not accepted [15:00:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 111610 in blueprint "let us see which blueprints have been proposed for a sprint" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111610 [15:00:49] * pschulz01 should have had a 'not' in his previous sentance, but he thinks he "get's it" now. [15:01:11] <nealmcb> So one thing is I'd like to understand our process for working with blueprints and encourage folks to keep things more up-to-date [15:02:18] <mathiaz> There a lots of blueprints related to ubuntu-server [15:02:18] <nealmcb> I also not lots of interest for a long time in various ways to make it easier to set up and administer common services and wonder if we should start using a PPA to try out things like ebox [15:02:24] <soren> nealmcb: We haven't got a set process (apart from what Launchpad encourages). [15:02:24] <nealmcb> yup [15:02:44] <mathiaz> but nobody really looked after them as there wasn't any ubuntu server team dedicated to that. [15:02:48] <pschulz01> What's a PPA? [15:02:58] <Kamping_Kaiser> pschulz01, personal package archvie iirc [15:03:02] <nealmcb> e.g. who can assign the team to a blueprint? who can change importance? [15:03:04] <mathiaz> I agree that we need to clean things. [15:03:05] <soren> pschulz01: Personal Package Archive. It's like your own personal Ubuntu derivative. [15:03:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> launchpad lets you create them now. [15:03:22] <pschulz01> Ta. [15:03:27] <soren> Kamping_Kaiser: Only if you're a member of launchad beta tester team. [15:03:41] <mathiaz> nealmcb: may be we could try to clean things out by little step. [15:03:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> soren, i'm not a memeber of the team, and i'm pretty sure i have an otpion in my LP account [15:03:53] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I remember having a hard time with ldap related things. [15:04:11] <soren> Kamping_Kaiser: That's a *very* recent change, then. [15:04:28] <nealmcb> soren: yup - in the last few weeks [15:04:42] <soren> Much more recent than that. [15:05:01] <soren> I don't think it'll actually let you, but it's off topic anyway :) [15:05:23] <nealmcb> I've created a PPA [15:05:32] <mathiaz> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/ has a list of tracked blueprints [15:05:56] <mathiaz> so the first step could be to go through the wiki pages and figure out which one are specification [15:06:08] <mathiaz> then subscribe ubuntu-server to it. [15:06:22] <mathiaz> so that we can get a list of specifications in one place. [15:06:31] <mathiaz> after than we can start cleaning things. [15:06:32] <soren> nealmcb: You're also a member of the beta tester team.. [15:06:46] <nealmcb> can any ubuntu-server member subscribe and unsubscribe the team from a spec? [15:06:53] <mathiaz> I think so [15:06:59] <nealmcb> soren: right - that is what Kamping_Kaiser said [15:07:01] <soren> nealmcb: I think any lp user can. :) [15:07:09] <soren> Kamping_Kaiser: au contraire. [15:07:14] <soren> whoops [15:07:22] <nealmcb> soren: oops - I misread that - sorry [15:07:26] <soren> nealmcb: Nope. Quite the opposite. He said he's not a member. [15:08:35] <mathiaz> so what do you think about my proposed plan ? [15:08:41] <nealmcb> mathiaz: one fertile place to look for blueprints to subscribe the team to is the list of all the specs of all the team members [15:08:48] <soren> So... What do we do? Go through the specs and clean them up? I think it's a good idea. [15:09:10] <nealmcb> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+specworkload [15:09:15] <nealmcb> the "spec workload" [15:09:42] <mathiaz> the first step would be to go through the wiki pages tagged as CategorySpec and make sure that the one related to server have ubuntu-server subscribed [15:10:27] <nealmcb> I think marking old specs as done or superceded by another spec in their wiki page would also help [15:10:57] <mathiaz> nealmcb: sure. That's also needed. [15:11:00] <nealmcb> mathiaz: but only ones that are relatively current [15:11:22] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I think we need to have the big picture first [15:11:39] <mathiaz> nealmcb: and then from the list we can start purging/merging the specs [15:12:00] <nealmcb> that would be a whole lot of specs.... perhaps we can do the big picture on a wiki page, rather than as team subscriptions? [15:12:07] <nealmcb> easier to organize.... [15:12:41] <mathiaz> well. That would be another wiki page... and blueprints.lp.net is specifically made for that. [15:13:28] <mathiaz> b.lp.net also help to keep track of dependencies [15:13:42] <mathiaz> if the wiki page is a Spec, it should have an entry in LP [15:13:52] <mathiaz> so it'S just a matter subscribing ubuntu-server to it. [15:14:22] <nealmcb> I'm afraid we would end up with so many out-of-date specs that people would get lost or daunted. [15:15:02] <mathiaz> nealmcb: yes. The second step would be two purge the spec list from b.lp.net [15:15:14] <mathiaz> /two/too/ [15:15:37] <nealmcb> who can set priorities for specs? [15:15:51] <soren> nealmcb: Owners of the spec and Ubuntu drivers. [15:15:56] <soren> IIRC [15:16:09] <nealmcb> how many ubuntu drivers are on the server team? [15:16:27] <mathiaz> none IIRC [15:16:33] <soren> none [15:16:42] <soren> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-drivers/+members [15:17:43] <mathiaz> so - what'S the action on this topic ? [15:19:03] <nealmcb> I guess I want to look at the options we've discussed a bit more [15:19:19] <nealmcb> and how well the various tools would support blueprint triage [15:19:19] <mathiaz> ok... We'll continue to discuss that on the ML [15:19:47] <mathiaz> nealmcb: would you mind sending an email to continue this discussion ? [15:19:53] <nealmcb> will do [15:20:02] <soren> Right. We should also remember that the Launchpad team always is open to input. If we need the blueprint management to change to be useful, it should change. [15:20:21] <nealmcb> yeah - I've got some bugs in :-) [15:20:36] <nealmcb> exporting lp relationship data as xml would help also [15:20:42] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nealmcb will send an email to ubuntu-server ml about blueprints cleaning [15:20:58] <nealmcb> do we want to discuss PPAs also? [15:21:01] <nealmcb> or later? [15:21:06] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Update on the tasksel tasks [15:21:30] <soren> Right. [15:21:36] <soren> The blueprint is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-server-tasks [15:21:37] <mathiaz> dendrobates wanted to talk about adding new tasks [15:21:51] <soren> I've just linked it to my branch of the ubuntu seeds, where I've added the print-server task. [15:22:24] <soren> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~shawarma/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.gutsy.server-tasks [15:23:14] <soren> If anyone has some good, concrete suggestions for new tasks, just tell me, or even create a branch of ubuntu-seeds of your own. [15:23:16] <pschulz01> mathiaz: Are we discussing the blueprint itself? [15:23:20] <mathiaz> you've just added a printserver ? [15:23:47] <mathiaz> which package do you think should be added to the task ? [15:23:48] <pschulz01> email server [15:23:59] <pschulz01> openVPN server [15:24:09] <soren> mathiaz: http://tinyurl.com/3czchw [15:24:33] <soren> mathiaz: I've requested input from our printing expert, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. [15:25:04] <soren> pschulz01: Openvpn server is a good idea! [15:25:17] <mathiaz> is openvpn in main ? [15:25:34] <mathiaz> nope [15:25:35] * pschulz01 as to set one up at some stage in the near future and is very confused about it all. [15:25:36] <soren> no [15:25:43] <pschulz01> has [15:25:51] <soren> pschulz01: This won't help you much, I'm afraid. [15:25:57] <soren> Tasks are mere a selection of packages. [15:26:01] <mathiaz> I don't think we can an openvpn task then [15:26:18] <pschulz01> soren: Something I've been thinking about.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz/UbuntuServerDocumentation [15:26:29] <soren> mathiaz: It could get promoted, I guess. [15:26:32] <mathiaz> soren: hum... printconf is in universe [15:26:36] <soren> mathiaz: YEs. [15:27:02] <mathiaz> soren: so you'd have to get it into main before it gets in printer-server task [15:27:04] <soren> mathiaz: It is also just a suggestion. If Till thinks it's a really good idea, we could file a MIR for it. [15:27:23] <soren> mathiaz: Yes, we don't enable universe by default, do we? [15:27:30] <soren> mathiaz: ..on servers? [15:27:35] <mathiaz> soren: not for the cds. [15:27:41] <mathiaz> on server yes. [15:27:47] <soren> Oh, ok. [15:27:57] <mathiaz> universe is enabled by default on universe since feisty [15:27:57] <soren> Well.. It's no problem then. [15:28:14] <soren> It could work, then. [15:28:15] <nealmcb> so are you saying we can have tasks that use packages in universe? [15:28:31] <mathiaz> hum... I don't think so. [15:28:33] <soren> Well, technically yes. Politically... Dunno. [15:28:38] <nealmcb> got it [15:28:46] <mathiaz> Because tasks are provided with the cd [15:28:51] <mathiaz> so packages have to be on the cd [15:28:52] <soren> mmm.... [15:28:55] <soren> No. [15:28:56] <Mithrandir> no, you should not have tasks that include packages in universe. [15:29:03] <mathiaz> and we don'T ship universe packages on cd [15:29:32] <soren> Mithrandir: Ok. [15:29:55] <pschulz01> mathiaz: While I like the idea, of tasks, I this it could be done as an 'after the fact' installation step. [15:30:24] <mathiaz> pschulz01: you can run tasksel after you've installed your system [15:30:42] <mathiaz> soren: are the other packages in main ? [15:30:53] <soren> mathiaz: AFAIR, yes. [15:31:20] <pschulz01> mathiaz: That's OK.. but I installed two servers today which just need the the minimal server install. [15:31:33] <soren> mathiaz: I'll check it before I go any further with it, of course. [15:32:00] <mathiaz> soren: so you're waiting for feedback from our printing expert [15:32:09] <soren> mathiaz: Yes. [15:32:10] <mathiaz> soren: and then try to get a task added [15:32:15] <soren> mathiaz: Yes. [15:32:39] <mathiaz> soren: I don't know if it's too late in the release cycle for that. [15:32:46] <soren> mathiaz: It's not. [15:32:55] <soren> mathiaz: It needs to be soon, but it's not too late yet. [15:32:56] <mathiaz> soren: great then. [15:33:01] <nealmcb> when is the freeze on tasks? [15:33:35] <soren> Well... Since tasks are really just an easy way to isntall a set of packages we already support... it's not very intrusive at all. [15:33:43] <mathiaz> anyone else has a idea about packages that should be added to the print-server task ? [15:34:56] <nealmcb> soren: I guess they need documentation, so certainly before string freeze [15:35:44] <soren> nealmcb:Yes, I guess they are translatable strings. [15:35:50] <pschulz01> soren: Have you set up a print-server with these packages? [15:36:03] <nealmcb> soren: I meant install documentation, but yes [15:36:03] <soren> pschulz01: Nope. [15:37:05] <mathiaz> soren: Seems that you know what you've got to do. [15:37:09] <mathiaz> let's move on. [15:37:12] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Choose an official MTA postfix/exim [15:37:22] <mathiaz> dendrobates asked to raise this point. [15:37:23] <nealmcb> thanks, soren! [15:37:32] * lamont thought it was postfix... [15:37:55] <mathiaz> I'm not sure what he meants by that. [15:38:10] <lamont> it probably refers to the fact that both are in main [15:38:20] <soren> mathiaz: Well, for one thing it would be useful for knowing which MTA to install for the mail-server task :) [15:38:45] <mathiaz> isn't that postfix ? [15:39:29] <lamont> postfix was chosen pre-warty as the official MTA, installed in warty and hoary (and breezy???), then dropped since grandma doesn't need an MTA [15:39:30] <mathiaz> keescook: do you have any issue with supported two MTA in main ? [15:39:41] <soren> mailx depends on "exim4 | mail-transport-agent". [15:40:14] <soren> lamont: Right, and since then we (allegedly) haven't had a preferred mta. [15:40:15] <lamont> that's because it's synced from debian, and one specifies $real-package | $virtual-package [15:40:19] <keescook> mathiaz: nope, (we already do) [15:40:23] <pschulz01> To throw something in.. one 'complaint' I have heard recently is that 'mutt' requires postfix, when the end user wanted to use exim... the dependency is "postfix | mail-transport-agent" [15:40:27] <soren> lamont: I know. [15:40:38] <soren> lamont: But if we truly preferred postfix, we'd change that sort of thing. [15:40:41] <lamont> pschulz01: that's not requiring postfix. that's installing postfix if you don't have an MTA already [15:40:48] <lamont> soren: I did once... [15:40:52] <soren> pschulz01: Then it doesn't require postfix. [15:41:05] <lamont> pschulz01: apt-get install mutt exim4 (or have exim4 installed before installing mutt) [15:41:11] <soren> pschulz01: exim4 will fulfill the dependency too and not force postfix upon the user. [15:41:43] <pschulz01> all: Ta.. I'll pass that on.. [15:41:55] <lamont> soren: the question is: do we care enough to for those packages _just_ to s/exim4/postfix/? [15:41:59] <soren> I think actually the discussion arose at the sprint in July where Rick and I discussed that some packages said "postfix | m-t-a" and others said "exim4 | m-t-a" [15:42:09] * Kamping_Kaiser thinks having no mta is loony [15:42:21] <lamont> Kamping_Kaiser: that's a different discussion [15:42:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> lamont, ok [15:42:33] <soren> Kamping_Kaiser: On a desktop? [15:43:00] <soren> lamont: I don't. :) [15:43:03] <lamont> (on a server it makes sense, on the desktop, it's lunacy, especially if it's grandma's desktop) [15:43:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> soren, i'm thinking more of the servers actualy, but its somewhat aplicable to desktops [15:43:57] <soren> Kamping_Kaiser: I'd love to discuss it at a different time :) [15:44:04] <pschulz01> Kamping_Kaiser: It's another service that isn't needed on a desktop/workstation. I'm thinking of 'network appliance'. [15:44:05] <lamont> (an MTA on the desktop, for the "typical" user means that eventually we fill up their disk with mail messages that they don't even know to read. [15:44:36] <soren> To get back on track... Do we care enough to prefer one of the other? [15:44:40] <sommer> for what it's worth I vote for Postfix as "official MTA" [15:44:43] <pschulz01> lamont: exactlly. [15:44:47] <lamont> soren: I cared enough to make the change when we were shipping postfix installed by default, and was then a big supporter of the "stop installing postfix by default" campaign [15:44:51] <mathiaz> soren: so the issue is to fix packages which specifies ""exim4 | m-t-a" ? [15:45:20] <mathiaz> sommer: what is documented in the ubuntu server guide ? [15:45:28] <sommer> another point for Postfix is it's currently documented better than exim. [15:45:29] <nealmcb> and what do we suggest in documentation, in ubotu and in the support channels [15:45:36] <pschulz01> soren: Can the 'ubuntu-server' claim this decision, given that we are the ones that will be caring the most about it? [15:45:41] <sommer> mathiaz: Postfix and Exim [15:45:47] * lamont would be happy to make the changes in main again [15:45:48] <pschulz01> soren: (do you think?_ [15:45:55] <lamont> s/happy/willing/ :) [15:45:57] <soren> The advantage of doing an s/exim4/postfix/ in all cases would be that it avoids confusion between two users who don't care which m-t-a- they've got, but care about being able to exchange experiences about the m-t-a their system has chosen to provide them with. [15:46:04] <mathiaz> pschulz01: I think we'll have to discuss that ubuntu-devel anyway [15:46:30] <soren> pschulz01: Yes, I belive so. [15:46:46] <pschulz01> mathiaz: Yes... [15:46:48] <soren> pschulz01: For any other team, it's a service rather than a detail they need to specifically worry about. [15:47:05] <soren> But yes, of course we need to run it by everyone else. [15:47:13] <lamont> mathiaz: since desktop doesn't install an mta, we can assert that they don't care [15:47:15] <soren> ..but my stance in that discussion is that it's our decision. [15:47:37] <lamont> (as long as we don't force postfix over exim, which will cause um... issues) [15:47:43] <lamont> s/will/would/ [15:48:02] <nealmcb> what does "force" mean there? [15:48:07] <soren> lamont: Would adding postfix to a mail-server task be considered "forcing postfix over exim"? [15:48:08] <mathiaz> soren: so you're suggestion is to s/exim/postfix/ in the package control file. [15:48:11] <mathiaz> soren: ? [15:48:14] <pschulz01> mathiaz: soren: It would be possible to argue the same on other packages as well. [15:48:41] <soren> mathiaz: I don't have a strong postfix preference, but yes, I belive it would be a good idea to unify it. [15:48:57] <pschulz01> mathiaz: soren: eg. kubuntu, edubutu and their desktop packages. [15:49:05] <mathiaz> soren: ok. Could you send an email to ubuntu-devel to discuss that changes ? [15:49:06] <soren> pschulz01: Huh? [15:49:10] <soren> mathiaz: Sure. [15:49:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> what about the ltsp (edubuntu) server? [15:49:24] <nealmcb> default to postfix, but don't break things if user specifies exim4? [15:50:03] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren will send an email to ubuntu-devel about using postfix as default package in control files. [15:50:09] <pschulz01> nealmcb: +1 [15:50:17] <lamont> nealmcb: exactly [15:50:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> nealmcb, sounds nice [15:50:34] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting. [15:50:35] <pschulz01> soren: Just arguing that thee will be other packages with similar logic. [15:50:36] <soren> lamont: I.e. don't violate debian policy :) [15:50:38] <lamont> backuppc, logcheck, mailman, mailx are the main packages affected [15:50:48] <lamont> soren: yeah.. [15:51:08] <mathiaz> Previous meeting log is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20070828 [15:51:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> iirc debians default mta is exim4 isnt it? [15:51:25] <lamont> yes [15:51:27] <soren> Kamping_Kaiser: Sounds right. [15:51:58] <mathiaz> DocDay was organised - The KnowledgeBase wiki page has been updated. [15:52:02] <lamont> and that is precisely what leads to the Depends: line for debian (and synced packages) [15:52:44] <mathiaz> sommer: thanks for updating the php5 documentation. [15:52:59] <sommer> no problem [15:53:06] <mathiaz> sommer: I've seen a couple of patches for the ubuntu server guide about it, right ? [15:53:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> lamont, just wondering if its saner to default to exim4 because less packages would need changing (i have nfi, fwiw) [15:53:41] <sommer> mathiaz: Yep, the first was a very minor update and the second was some content on php5-cgi [15:53:54] <mathiaz> sommer: thanks for that. [15:53:54] <sommer> it's currently being reviewed, I believe. [15:54:08] <mathiaz> sommer: does the ubuntu server guide needs more change ? [15:54:15] <sommer> welcome [15:54:16] <mathiaz> sommer: how accurate is it for gutsy ? [15:55:01] <sommer> the Dovecot part should be good...I haven't tested much else on Gutsy [15:55:26] <sommer> OpenLDAP section is probably okay...now that I think about it [15:56:02] <sommer> I can review the other packages if you want. [15:56:34] <mathiaz> sommer: that's be great - if you could review some sections of the server guide. [15:56:38] <pschulz01> sommer: link? [15:56:51] <sommer> https://help.ubuntu.com/7.04/server/C/ [15:57:05] <pschulz01> sommer: Ta [15:57:09] <mathiaz> is someone else interested in updating/reviewing the ubuntu server guide ? [15:57:14] <sommer> that's for feisty anyway [15:57:26] <pschulz01> mathiaz: Yes [15:57:58] <mathiaz> pschulz01: great ! Could you coordinate with sommer on the section you'd like to review ? [15:58:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> isnt string freeze tomorrow? [15:58:28] <nealmcb> string freeze is thursday.... [15:58:37] <sommer> cool we should be able to cover more ground [15:58:42] <pschulz01> sommer: I need to go through the entire document anyway.. wit a couple of new servers. [15:58:45] <mathiaz> sommer pschulz01: and add an item in the Roadmap [15:59:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> nealmcb, thats my tomorrow [15:59:16] <nealmcb> :-) [15:59:30] <sommer> mathiaz: sure I'll add links to what I'm working on [15:59:42] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer pschulz01 will start to review the ubuntu server guide [15:59:44] <nealmcb> we need someone in Hawaii to work on it :-) [15:59:55] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer will add an item to the Roadmap [16:00:46] <nealmcb> ...except for that little detail about it being UTC and all.... [16:00:49] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap. [16:01:17] <mathiaz> nealmcb: how is the factoids update going ? [16:01:41] <nealmcb> I got a list of the biggest outages in the roadmap [16:02:04] <nealmcb> and a bit of text for 2 of them. the mail discussion has helped with how to word them [16:02:31] <nealmcb> I welcome suggestions, and will continue working on them [16:02:34] <mathiaz> nealmcb: the list seems great ! Thanks for putting this up. [16:03:13] <mathiaz> nealmcb: may be you could send an email to ubuntu-server with the list of some preliminary text for each fact ? [16:03:19] <nealmcb> ok [16:04:04] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nealmcb will send an email to ubuntu-server with the proposed factoids. [16:04:43] <mathiaz> As for AppArmor, the kernel has been updated with the latest version. [16:04:54] <mathiaz> I'm currently testing the user space update. [16:05:10] <keescook> mathiaz: jj sent the kernel patch for syslog to kyle [16:05:12] <mathiaz> But still have problems with the livecd, due to stacked file system. [16:05:48] <mathiaz> keescook: Ok. I've pinged BenC which pointed me to kyle. [16:06:08] <mathiaz> so the new userspace utils work with the kernel module [16:06:19] <mathiaz> except for the aa-genprof tool [16:06:35] <keescook> cool. and this is from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mathiaz/apparmor/ubuntu-mathiaz/ tree, correct? [16:06:46] <mathiaz> keescook: yes. everything is there. [16:07:07] <mathiaz> upstream has released a tarbal for 2.1 [16:07:16] <mathiaz> actually it's a pre-release. [16:07:43] <mathiaz> As I've been following their svn closely it should work well [16:08:03] <keescook> excellent. Looking at the changelog, what is this for: * Remove apparmor-utils depends on bsdutils [16:08:19] <mathiaz> keescook: it's a warning from lintian [16:08:39] <mathiaz> keescook: bsdutils is part of base [16:08:44] <keescook> oh, duh. :P [16:09:02] <mathiaz> keescook: so if you wanna depend on it, you need to depend on specific version [16:09:09] <keescook> and you've totally dropped apparmor-modules-source? Isn't it handy for helping the kernel team do merges? [16:09:27] <mathiaz> I don't think so. [16:09:32] <keescook> okay [16:09:39] <mathiaz> kyle got the source from their svn tree. [16:09:59] <keescook> I'll test this too, and upload it. [16:10:06] <mathiaz> ok. cool. [16:10:38] <mathiaz> Is there anything else ? [16:10:55] <keescook> not from me. :) [16:12:10] <jdstrand> I'll mention since dendrobates is not here that I will be looking at ldap-auth-client and trying to finish it up [16:14:13] <mathiaz> jdstrand: great. Thanks. [16:14:25] <mathiaz> So the next meeting will take place in two weeks. [16:14:30] <mathiaz> same time, same place. [16:14:48] <nealmcb> thanks all [16:14:53] <sommer> cool thanks all [16:15:07] <mathiaz> thanks for stopping by. [16:15:28] * keescook waves [16:15:40] <jdstrand> bye! [16:16:06] <mathiaz> #endmeeting Meeting ended.