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TZ UTC-4 {{{(05:01:46 PM) mathiaz: #startmeeting (05:01:57 PM) zul: no bot (05:02:20 PM) soren: Oh, Seveas took mootbot with him, too? (05:02:25 PM) mathiaz: oh well... (05:02:26 PM) nealmcb: yoga on irc!! (05:02:39 PM) mathiaz: Today's Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting (05:03:09 PM) mathiaz: Not a lot on it (05:03:32 PM) mathiaz: how is everyone recovering from the release last week ? (05:03:58 PM) jdstrand: great! (05:04:17 PM) nealmcb: the mirrors and other servers seem less overwhelmed now.... (05:04:20 PM) nxvl: \o/ (05:04:45 PM) nealmcb: I hope they push bittorrent more next time in the release notes etc (05:04:52 PM) mathiaz: There has been a steady flow of bug reported (05:05:09 PM) mathiaz: I've looked through the samba ones (05:05:20 PM) zul: mathiaz: ucf? (05:05:33 PM) mathiaz: and it seems some people don't know how-to handle correctly questions asked by ucf (05:05:46 PM) mathiaz: and this whole configuration file management (05:06:14 PM) nxvl: the worst problem with server isn't that people download iso's (05:06:19 PM) mathiaz: the other main issues are cannot access windows shares - mainly due to gvfs (05:06:28 PM) nxvl: is that they update using update-manager/apt/aptitude (05:06:54 PM) jdstrand: mathiaz: what is going on with that gvfs/samba/AD issue? (05:06:55 PM) nxvl: and that brings the mirrors down (05:06:56 PM) mathiaz: zul: have you seen other recurring bugs in server related software ? (05:07:09 PM) mathiaz: jdstrand: which issue are you refering to ? (05:07:51 PM) jdstrand: mathiaz: I haven't been following too closely, but heard of gvfs not being able to access AD and samba (05:08:04 PM) zul: mathiaz: just some nut ones and apache2 dangling symlink for index.html (05:08:17 PM) jdstrand: seemed it was pushed to gnome... (05:08:28 PM) mathiaz: jdstrand: yeah - something like that - that's mainly a problem with gvfs (05:09:24 PM) mathiaz: I discussed these bugs with seb128 and we aggreed to ask the reporters to test with smbclient (05:09:53 PM) mathiaz: If it works with smbclient it's a problem with gvfs/nautilus-share and the bug should reassigned to the correct packages (05:10:03 PM) ***jdstrand nods (05:10:04 PM) mathiaz: If smbclient doesn't work then it's a problem with samba (05:10:35 PM) zul: mathiaz: that natutilius/smbclient one where you cant go 140 directories deep is interesting (05:11:03 PM) mathiaz: zul: we'll have to do more debugging on that one. (05:11:14 PM) mathiaz: So that's all that is on my radar for the post-release bugs (05:11:16 PM) zul: mathiaz: yep (05:11:22 PM) owh: zul isn't that just a maximum path length of 255 chars? (05:11:24 PM) mathiaz: soren: how is it going on the virtualization front ? (05:11:34 PM) soren: I've still got some fallout I need to get on top of. (05:11:38 PM) zul: owh: probably (05:11:54 PM) owh: zul: Which bug number? (05:11:56 PM) soren: There's one update coming up in the next kernel update. (05:12:06 PM) jdstrand: soren rocked the 'soft lockup' bug (05:12:09 PM) soren: I'm looking into a few other things and picking stuff that's suitable for SRU's. (05:12:11 PM) jdstrand: (that's the one) (05:12:21 PM) soren: (05:12:43 PM) mathiaz: soren: great ! (05:12:56 PM) mathiaz: zul: how do you track SRU bugs ? (05:13:07 PM) mathiaz: zul: did you come up with a specific plan ? (05:13:16 PM) zul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/StableReleaseTracker (05:13:52 PM) mathiaz: For information, zul will be the contact point for SRU on hardy for 8.04.1 (05:13:58 PM) soren: mathiaz: I'm waiting to be told how to do it. (05:14:00 PM) zul: It would be nice if people would review that and add to the list (05:14:11 PM) soren: Last I heard it was a major cause of discussion in certain places. (05:14:21 PM) mathiaz: soren: right (05:14:40 PM) mathiaz: That's why zul is looking after this in the server team (05:14:57 PM) soren: Oh. Er... Right, I thought you were asking me (05:15:01 PM) soren: my bad. (05:15:06 PM) mathiaz: soren: I guess you should use zul wiki page to keep track of SRUs (05:15:19 PM) zul: soren: basically there was a kick off meeting last night/this morning about 8.04.1 (05:15:34 PM) soren: zul: Eh? Where? How? When? Who? (05:15:38 PM) soren: What? (05:15:57 PM) zul: soren: it was in the platform team meeting check the logs for #ubuntu-meeting (05:16:04 PM) mathiaz: zul: what was the outcome of the meeting ? (05:16:22 PM) zul: mathiaz: basically slangasek is leading the effort and there will be more meetings (05:16:50 PM) soren: Ok, cool. I'll check the logs and see. (05:16:59 PM) mathiaz: zul: ok. If enconter bugs that may be worth an SRU, should ping you ? (05:17:07 PM) soren: zul: "this morning" is how many hours ago? (05:17:16 PM) nxvl: zul: those meeting are community or canonical ones/ (05:17:16 PM) mathiaz: zul: so that you can have a look at it and decide if it's worth ? (05:17:22 PM) kirkland: soren: 0600 UTC (05:17:23 PM) ***soren shakes his fist at timezones (05:17:27 PM) zul: mathiaz: correct (05:17:29 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: it was the platform meeting (05:17:35 PM) zul: nxvl: community (05:17:40 PM) soren: Fanks. (05:17:47 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: as in i can attend to it? (05:18:05 PM) nxvl: and where are this meetings announced? (05:18:21 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: of course you can - the meeting was at 6:00 UTC -> translate that to your timezone (05:18:37 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: here? (05:18:59 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: yes - all the meetings are held in #ubuntu-meeting (05:19:10 PM) nxvl: and where are they announced? on fridge? (05:19:19 PM) owh: mathiaz: That meeting isn't showing on http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event (05:19:38 PM) mathiaz: the fridge calendar isn't working properly now (05:20:21 PM) owh: Hmm, was there any particular event that caused that and the bot to be borked for a while? (05:20:31 PM) soren: The owner left. (05:20:37 PM) owh: Ah (05:21:48 PM) ***owh guesses that there is more behind that simple statement. (05:21:52 PM) mathiaz: Allright - that was all for the release fallout (05:21:57 PM) mathiaz: Let's move on (05:22:00 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] bug announcement in #ubuntu-server (05:22:26 PM) mathiaz: soren added a bot to the #ubuntu-server (05:22:34 PM) soren: \o/ (05:22:37 PM) mathiaz: and now NEW bugs are announced in the channel (05:22:46 PM) owh: All bugs? (05:22:55 PM) soren: Just server bugs. (05:22:56 PM) mathiaz: owh: only the ones relevant to the server-team (05:23:21 PM) mathiaz: I questionned whether it was usefull as it seems to generate clutter in the channel (05:23:28 PM) soren: (defined as the ones that get announced on ubuntu-server-bugs@l.u.c) (05:23:37 PM) mathiaz: and I rely on email to get notified about new bugs (05:23:49 PM) mathiaz: soren: and nealmcb thought it's a good idea (05:24:00 PM) mathiaz: what are others' opinion on that ? (05:24:09 PM) owh: mathiaz: My comment would be that if a bug comes past while you're online, you can have a squiz at it. (05:24:34 PM) soren: Yeah. It's hugely helpful for my workflow. I use e-mail when I want to follow up or see history, but an almost real time notification about a new bug is *really* helpful for me. (05:24:35 PM) jdstrand: I saw two bugs that I was able to tend to and close as a result (05:24:39 PM) narcan_ is now known as narcan (05:24:55 PM) sommer: I'm all for giving it a try, unless the channel becomes too cluttered (05:25:20 PM) owh: mathiaz: You can set your client to ignore it (05:26:23 PM) mathiaz: sommer: agreed - let's give it a try (05:26:36 PM) mathiaz: and see how things evolve (05:27:03 PM) owh: Does your bot come with all the goodies of old soren? (05:27:50 PM) soren: I'm not sure how to respond to that (05:28:14 PM) ***ajmitch wonders what goodies 'old soren' brings anyway (05:28:19 PM) mathiaz: there are currently two bots in the channel (05:28:38 PM) owh: soren: There was supposed to be a comma before your name (05:28:53 PM) jdstrand: can we leave soren's 'goodies' out of this? (05:29:07 PM) soren: Yes, can we? PLease? (05:29:07 PM) nxvl: soren: have you test that your bot doesn't make double announce, then one from the bot and an eco from ubotu? (05:29:16 PM) sommer: hehee goodies! (05:29:42 PM) soren: nxvl: I've asked the owner of ubotto to disable the bugSnarfer magic. (05:29:52 PM) soren: nxvl: That should get rid of the echo. (05:29:59 PM) nxvl: (05:30:10 PM) mathiaz: soren: great! (05:30:11 PM) ***nxvl can't live without ubotu (05:30:15 PM) mathiaz: let's move on. (05:30:19 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] UDS topics (05:30:27 PM) soren: nxvl: Oh, but my new bot does the same. (05:30:29 PM) nealmcb: who owns ubottu? (05:30:31 PM) mathiaz: So UDS is in a couple of weeks from now (05:30:33 PM) soren: jussi01 (05:30:45 PM) soren: Let's talk in #u-server afterwards. (05:30:54 PM) mathiaz: so now is the time to get your ideas in blueprints and register them in LP (05:31:05 PM) mathiaz: so that we can schedule sessions at UDS about these (05:31:13 PM) nxvl: soren: (05:31:29 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: 2 to be exactly (05:31:51 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: i have an idea (05:31:56 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: i talked to you some time ago (05:32:02 PM) nxvl: but i whing it was to early (05:32:03 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: right - there will be FOSSCAMP friday/saturday (05:32:09 PM) mathiaz: and then UDS the following week (05:32:14 PM) nxvl: yes (05:32:31 PM) nxvl: i want to include on ubuntu a new tool (05:32:33 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: register a blueprint and/or start a wiki page on w.u.c (05:32:40 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: i have them (05:32:51 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: i just need to work on them a little more and discuss it (05:33:00 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: link ? (05:33:05 PM) ***nxvl searches (05:34:02 PM) nxvl: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-centralized-services-administrator (05:34:06 PM) nxvl: found it (05:34:56 PM) nxvl: it's like soren's blueprint for home servers (https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-easy-business-server) (05:35:06 PM) nxvl: but more open i think (05:35:39 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: right - it's a general concept that is floating around (05:35:58 PM) nxvl: ok (05:36:03 PM) nxvl: what i propose? (05:36:13 PM) nxvl: i have the idea to develop a framework (05:36:32 PM) nxvl: which will cary service-modules (05:36:41 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: ebox is already a framework - couldn't it be used to implement what you wanna do ? (05:36:54 PM) nxvl: so everyone can develop modules and have the service working on this tool (05:37:05 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: yes, that was my next point (05:37:13 PM) nxvl: as we have already ebox (05:37:35 PM) nxvl: i was thinking to limit my propose to developing a curses interface for ebox (05:38:04 PM) nxvl: what i don't really want to, is to install a web server on my firewall or file server (05:38:17 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: why not - you'd have to look into the ebox framework and see if it can be used to achieve that (05:38:20 PM) nxvl: but to have a tools where in which i can administrate and tune my services (05:38:30 PM) nealmcb: nxvl: have you tried running ebox via links or w3m? (05:38:34 PM) RoAkSoAx: you could also add support for LVS based clusters so that you just configure it in one server and replicate the configuration on other nodes of the cluster (05:38:38 PM) nxvl: mathiaz: yes, that's why i'm proposing (05:38:59 PM) RoAkSoAx: without having a tool to replicate like csync2 (05:39:01 PM) nealmcb: nxvl: then you wouldn't have to expose the port to the outside world (05:39:25 PM) nxvl: RoAkSoAx: if it goes as i want to, everyone will be able to develop it separately and have it working for my propose or ebox without pain (05:39:40 PM) nxvl: nealmcb: exactly (05:39:55 PM) nealmcb: you'd just bind the apache port to localhost (05:40:12 PM) nxvl: nealmcb: or use resources on a web server, which i can use on my $SERVICE (05:40:16 PM) sommer: seems like one of the highest rated ideas on the brainstorm was for gui admin tools... just fyi (05:40:26 PM) mathiaz: sommer: yes (05:40:30 PM) nxvl: sommer: yep (05:40:41 PM) nxvl: sommer: so we can just then develop UI (05:40:43 PM) mathiaz: sommer: I went through brainstorm and extracted general tpocs (05:40:52 PM) sommer: cool (05:40:54 PM) mathiaz: sommer: *topics* (05:41:05 PM) nxvl: so i was thinking on find a way to develop different UI's for ebox and develop them (05:41:05 PM) mathiaz: sommer: they should be taken into account when scheduling session at UDS (05:41:40 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: ok - I think we're getting into the implementation details (05:41:48 PM) mathiaz: let's defear that to UDS (05:41:52 PM) sommer: mathiaz: sure, I'm really interested in the ldap, kerberos, domain one (05:41:53 PM) nxvl: yes (05:42:01 PM) nealmcb: how many people have tried ebox out? will it be hard to get into main? (05:42:10 PM) nxvl: but i wanted to hear you opinion on this idea (05:42:15 PM) mathiaz: nxvl: write down your suggestion in the wiki page (05:42:19 PM) sommer: mathiaz: should there be a blueprint for documentation with regards to UDS? (05:42:37 PM) RoAkSoAx: as an addon to nxvl, cluster management could be included out of the box! (05:42:52 PM) mathiaz: sommer: yes - there should be a session about network authentication and identity management (05:42:58 PM) nealmcb: sommer: sounds very helpful to me (05:43:02 PM) mathiaz: sommer: I've asked for a documentation session (05:43:12 PM) sommer: mathiaz: awesome, thanks (05:43:20 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: sommer: I'm doing a blueprint on the Ubuntu Documentation Search, as well as an Ubuntu Manpages Website one (05:43:35 PM) mathiaz: sommer: you should register a blueprint so that we can track it and start down to write ideas (05:43:41 PM) mathiaz: sommer: such kirkland (05:44:07 PM) kirkland: mathiaz: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-doc/+spec/ubuntu-documentation-search (05:44:28 PM) sommer: should I just add to kirkland's or create a new one? (05:44:43 PM) kirkland: sommer: i'd say create your own, and we'll link them together (05:44:54 PM) sommer: kirkland: cool, sounds good (05:44:54 PM) kirkland: i'm going to create a separate one for the Manpages business (05:45:32 PM) mathiaz: sounds good to me (05:45:40 PM) mathiaz: That's all I have (05:45:47 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] Any other business (05:45:55 PM) mathiaz: someone want to add something ? (05:45:58 PM) nealmcb: how about delivering ibex as a virtual image? would that be useful? (05:46:30 PM) nxvl: nealmcb: how as a virtual image? as in qemu image? (05:46:35 PM) nealmcb: yeah (05:46:36 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: you mean providing a qemu image (05:47:04 PM) nxvl: what for? (05:47:26 PM) nealmcb: faster and easier than running install on jeos (05:47:50 PM) nxvl: mm (05:48:15 PM) nxvl: i don't even know what jeos is, so i will step aside on this topic (05:48:32 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: could be interesting (05:48:34 PM) nealmcb: I also heard folks wanting to deliver on usb sticks - not sure if that is ready-to-run or for the installer (05:48:44 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: I'd like to see a real use case for -server (05:48:58 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: I see it usefull on desktop to be able to do a test run (05:49:09 PM) nealmcb: on amazon ec2 there are lots of folks packaging stuff up as images (05:49:10 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: for -server, you'd base a production server on this ? (05:49:42 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: I heard there is ubuntu-server on EC2 (05:49:55 PM) ***mathiaz should look into EC2 (05:50:00 PM) nealmcb: if my existing server runs kvm or whatever, and along comes ibex with cool stuff, it would be nice to just load and go into an existing vm (05:50:50 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: right - so the use case would be to provide a kind of preview (05:50:54 PM) nealmcb: I'm also talking about packaging _applications_ and test cases - like what dan talked about (05:50:58 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: so that people can poke around (05:51:08 PM) nealmcb: mathiaz: or a basis for building other stuff on (05:51:11 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: right - that's a bigger plan (05:51:14 PM) nxvl: nealmcb: but we will need to have an image for each service (05:51:25 PM) nxvl: nealmcb: or you mean only base system? (05:51:40 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: right - that would fall under the Virtual Appliance Builder toolkit or something like (05:51:43 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: that (05:51:52 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: I'm sure soren has crazy ideas in that area (05:52:12 PM) owh: On other topics, the server guide is *hard* to find. (05:52:20 PM) soren: I do indeed. (05:52:25 PM) nxvl: soren alway has crazy ideas (05:52:43 PM) nxvl: (05:52:44 PM) mathiaz: owh: it's listed on the main page of help.u.c (05:53:09 PM) owh: Sigh, I missed that. (05:53:27 PM) nealmcb: and it still says 2006 copyright iirc (05:53:41 PM) mathiaz: nealmcb: yop (05:53:46 PM) sommer: that was a good year (05:53:48 PM) nealmcb: "recycle that old stuff" (05:53:55 PM) nealmcb: but bits recycle well... (05:54:18 PM) owh: nealmcb: But is that really true if the electrons change (05:54:24 PM) mathiaz: I'm sure sommer will fix that for intrepid (05:54:26 PM) nealmcb: I hope the docs can be on the site when ibex ships this time around (05:54:38 PM) owh: nealmcb: That would be novel (05:54:56 PM) mathiaz: Allright - time to wrap up (05:54:57 PM) nealmcb: intrepid! (05:55:06 PM) mathiaz: [TOPIC] # (05:55:06 PM) mathiaz: Agree on next meeting date and time. (05:55:07 PM) owh: Heh (05:55:17 PM) mathiaz: same time, same place next week ? (05:55:24 PM) sommer: o// (05:55:24 PM) nxvl: o/ (05:55:32 PM) owh: +1 (05:57:34 PM) nealmcb: well I guess that was that.... (05:58:23 PM) sommer: nealmcb: the copyright isn't actually in the serverguide source, so I'll figure out how the html is built (05:58:33 PM) owh: Strangely unfulfilling :_) (05:58:43 PM) mathiaz: great - so see you all next week (05:58:50 PM) mathiaz: same time, same place (05:58:51 PM) sommer: mathiaz: thanks, later on all (05:58:57 PM) mathiaz: #endmeeting }}}