20090113

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

  • Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
  • Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.

  • Fixing libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty - transition of libmysqlclient library.
  • WebArchitecture - We (ubuntu-eu) have problems setting up a simple web server - problem exposed, solution proposed, discussion welcomed Smile :) (Yann Hamon)

  • Ubuntu Server on NAS devices : what level of support is expected, and what needs to be done to make this happen? Emmet Hikory

  • Open Discussion.
  • Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

Screen Profiles

kirland announced that he uploaded a new version of the screen-profiles package to jaunty. Versions for hardy and intrepid are also available from his PPA. He stated that it was totally awesome now and posted a screenshot. He is looking for more testers.

ACTION: kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile

SRU for ebox

sommer reported that all the bugs had been updated and submitted to the motu-sru team. zul uploaded relevant packages to intrepid-proposed which are waiting for the ACK from the motu-sru team.

libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty

mathiaz reported that libmysqlclient15-dev is currently a transitional package depending on libmysqlclient-dev. Both packages are provided by mysql-dsfg-5.1. Unfortunately that breaks builds in main that depends on libmysqlclient15-dev since mysql-dfsg-5.1 is in universe. For now MySQL 5.0 is still the preferred package and should stay in main while MySQL 5.1 is part of universe.

After some discussion it was decided to upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.1 that would provide libmysqlclient16-dev instead of libmysqlclient{,15-dev}. libmysqlclient16-dev won't provide libmysqlclient-dev.

A new version of mysql-dfsg-5.0 will also be uploaded with the version 5.1.30really5.0.75-0ubuntu1 in order to restore a working libmysqlclient15-dev package. libmysqlclient15-dev will provide libmysqlclient-dev.

ACTION: mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient{15,16,}-dev packages in jaunty

Ubuntu Server on NAS devices

persia asked what would be required to turn one of his little ARM servers into a complete NAS device. There was some discussion about which services would be provided (NFS, CIFS, SFTP) and the need for a management interface. ebox may provide the latter.

The first step however is to test whether cifs (via samba) and may be nfs are working correctly on ARM. zul mentioned that access to ARM devices was a blocker. persia volunteered to run an ARM install of Server through the test cases to check the current status and what needs to be done. He is also looking for help chasing down some of the bugs he might uncover during the process.

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, January 20th at 16:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

[16:07] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[16:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:07. The chair is mathiaz.
[16:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:07] <nijaba> o/
[16:07] <sommer> o//
[16:07] <persia> \o
[16:07] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:07] <ScottK-desktop> o/
[16:07] <jdstrand> o/
[16:08] <MianoSM> o/
[16:08] <mathiaz> Last week minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20090106
[16:08] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Screen Profiles
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Screen Profiles
[16:08] <mathiaz> kirkland: ^^?
[16:08] <zul> hello
[16:08] <kirkland> mathiaz: yessir!
[16:08] <kirkland> mathiaz: it's totally awesome now
[16:08] <adityag> here in for member, i am sorry because i am late, i just came to know about it
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: uploaded to universe for jaunty
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: in my ppa for hardy/intrepid
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: nijaba has done some excellent work on the configurator
[16:09]  * nijaba blushes
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: it's very fast to start up now (i'm caching the updates-available information)
[16:09] <mathiaz> kirkland: so what's up with the taskbar ?
[16:09] <kirkland> mathiaz: i plan to blog about it today
[16:10] <kirkland> mathiaz: clarify the question?
[16:10] <adityag> any one there  ?? in here for the first time
[16:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: awesome.
[16:10] <mathiaz> kirkland: last time we talked about implemented a taskbar in screen
[16:11] <mathiaz> kirkland: is this something still being worked on? implemented?
[16:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: it currently looks like this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/Screenshot.png
[16:11] <kirkland> mathiaz: the 3-color "\o/" is our approximation of the spirit of the Ubuntu logo (also, it's 1/3 of the circle of friends)
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: Ubuntu 8.10 is pulled from the lsb-release information
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: there are 66 updates available for my system right now
[16:12] <nijaba> mathiaz: you really should try it out, sounds like you have not yet
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: my system load is 0.40
[16:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: right. There is an action about a taskbar from last week minutes.
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: I have 2 CPUs, currently operating at 800MHz
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: and 4G of RAM available
[16:12] <mathiaz> kirkland: having a way to load applets into the taskbar
[16:12] <ScottK-desktop> kirkland: Congratulations on core-dev BTW.
[16:12] <kirkland> mathiaz: and the time/date
[16:13] <kirkland> ScottK-desktop: thanks for your support!  \o/
[16:13] <kirkland> mathiaz: that's a very difficult item;  i don't plan on implementing that any time soon
[16:13] <kirkland> mathiaz: screen-profiles is quite usuable now, and provides a lot of good information
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'd like to focus now on finding/fixing bugs
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: and improving the usuability
[16:14] <mathiaz> kirkland: great.
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: i'm going to contact the Desktop User Experience team
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: and ask them if they can give this a look over
[16:14] <mathiaz> anything else to add regarding screen-profiles?
[16:14] <mathiaz> it seems that was is required now is more testing
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: right
[16:14] <kirkland> mathiaz: and then ....
[16:15] <mathiaz> [ACTION] kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile
[16:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to write a blog post about screen-profile
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think we should revisit this in 2-3 weeks, and consider if the ubuntu screenrc should be the system default /etc/screenrc
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: so that any user who runs screen gets this magic
[16:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: in Ubuntu
[16:16] <mathiaz> kirkland: seems like an idea to discuss.
[16:16] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:16] <kirkland> mathiaz: yes, and we need strong confidence of no breakage to do so, IMHO
[16:16] <jdstrand> kirkland: what about doing used/total for memory, rather than just total?
[16:16] <kirkland> jdstrand: i like that idea
[16:16] <kirkland> jdstrand: what about a percentage?
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: i'd be interested in seeing how we can accomplish this in as few characters as possible
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: I'm trying to stay within 80 columns
[16:17] <jdstrand> kirkland: I like that you give the total, and would be fine with a percentage as long as total was still there
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: you see that we have a little more space
[16:17] <kirkland> jdstrand: k
[16:17] <jdstrand> kirkland: but, really, percentage is most important I think
[16:17] <mathiaz> kirkland: jdstrand: let's discuss the improvement somewhere else
[16:17] <jdstrand> (if you had to choose)
[16:17] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] SRU for ebox
[16:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU for ebox
[16:17] <jdstrand> np
[16:17] <mathiaz> sommer: ^^?
[16:17] <mathiaz> zul: ^^?
[16:18] <zul> uploaded this morning waiting for motu-sru
[16:18] <mathiaz> all the bugs have been filed/updated?
[16:18] <sommer> bugs filed for the needed patches
[16:18] <sommer> mathiaz: yeppers :)
[16:18] <mathiaz> and the motu-sru team is subscribed to all of them?
[16:19] <sommer> mathiaz: should be
[16:19]  * ScottK-desktop is pinging them right now.
[16:19] <ScottK-desktop> What bug?
[16:19] <mathiaz> sommer: excellent work!
[16:19] <sommer> ScottK-desktop: bug #273486
[16:19] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 273486 in ebox "Current eBox packages in intrepid don't work at all" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273486
[16:20] <sommer> bug #314606'
[16:20] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 314606 in ebox "ebox and libebox don't support Intrepid gconf version" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/314606
[16:20] <sommer> and bug #255368
[16:20] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 255368 in ebox "ebox: Depends: libapache-authcookie-perl but it is not installable " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255368
[16:20] <mathiaz> great - thanks for the work sommer and zul
[16:21] <zul> np
[16:21] <sommer> np
[16:21] <ScottK-desktop> motu-sru is looking at them now.
[16:21] <mathiaz> That's all the ACTION left from last week meetings
[16:21] <mathiaz> anything else to add wrt to last week meeting?
[16:21] <sommer> ScottK-desktop: cool, thanks
[16:22] <mathiaz> allright. Let's move on then.
[16:22] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty
[16:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  libmysqlclient-dev package (MySQL 5.1) in jaunty
[16:22] <mathiaz> The current version of libmysqlclient15-dev in jaunty is provided by mysql 5.1.
[16:23] <mathiaz> Which is a transitional package.
[16:23] <mathiaz> As a result pkgs in main that build-depends on libmysqlclient15-dev don't build
[16:23] <mathiaz> ex: ooo
[16:23] <mathiaz> so the plan is
[16:24] <mathiaz> 1. upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.1 that doesn't build libmysqlclient15-dev transitional package
[16:24] <mathiaz> instead it would build libmysqlclient16-dev
[16:25] <mathiaz> mysql-server, mysql-client would also not be provided by mysql-5.1
[16:25] <mathiaz> and mysql-common would be renamed to mysql-common-5.1
[16:25] <zul> oh crap sorry about that
[16:25] <mathiaz> 2. upload a new version of mysql-dfsg-5.0 with a version of 5.1.30really5.0.75
[16:25] <persia> Why does it need libmysqlclient16-dev, if it's not going to have the transitional package: can't it just use libmysqlclient-dev ?
[16:26] <mathiaz> so that libmysqlclient15-dev, mysql-server, mysql-client and mysql-common are provided by mysql-5.0 again.
[16:26] <ScottK-desktop> persia: I think you want to provide a way to specifically build-dep on the 5.1 -dev
[16:26] <mathiaz> persia: the current 5.1 package from debian works like this:
[16:26] <mathiaz> persia: it provides a transitional pacakge libmysqlclient15-dev which depends on libmysqlclient-dev
[16:27] <mathiaz> persia: debian 5.1 doesn't have libmysqlclient16-dev
[16:27] <persia> ScottK-desktop, mysql-dfsg-5.0 doesn't provide "libmysqlclient-dev" as a package name, which is why I thought it might be useful to use the current Debian name.
[16:27] <mathiaz> however mysql-5.0 provides libmysqlclient15-dev (which provides a virtual package libmysqlclient-dev)
[16:27] <persia> mathiaz, Right.  I just don't understand the value of the new package, unless there's some other use to which libmysqlclient-dev is expected to be put.
[16:28] <persia> Ah, virtual packages.
[16:28] <persia> Right.  Nevermind.
[16:28] <jdstrand> mathiaz: is Debian planning to be able to have 5.1 and 5.0 in the archive at the same time?
[16:28] <mathiaz> right now in Debian there is only 1 version in mysql.
[16:28] <mathiaz> jdstrand: good question.
[16:28] <zul> i doubt it
[16:29] <ScottK-desktop> persia: Oh.  I thought it did.
[16:29] <mathiaz> jdstrand: considering that 5.1 in experimental provides a binary pkg libmysqlclient-dev, I don't think so.
[16:29] <jdstrand> if they do, this really sounds like something we'd want to collaborate on with them
[16:29] <persia> ScottK-desktop, as pointed out, it virtually does :)  We're both right.
[16:29] <ScottK-desktop> ;-)
[16:30] <jdstrand> mathiaz: if not, we'll need to make *sure* that everything upgrades ok when 5.1 in debian replaces 5.0
[16:30] <ScottK-desktop> jdstrand: Yes, but we've got two issues: Fix it now so OOo will build and Do it right/talk to Debian.
[16:30] <mathiaz> even if Debian doesn't plan to provide both packages, we - at least for jaunty - will provide both 5.1 and 5.0
[16:30] <mathiaz> one in main (currently 5.0) and one in universe (5.1)
[16:30] <mathiaz> universe (currently 5.1)
[16:30] <ScottK-desktop> Although Kubuntu has hopes of getting Amarok back in Main, so there may be bits of 5.1 that need to get promoted.
[16:31] <ScottK-desktop> They are still trying to figure out how small those bits can be.
[16:31] <mathiaz> so it seems that we'd have to provide libmysqlclient16-dev as a binary package from mysql-5.1
[16:32] <mathiaz> so my question is: what happens if both libmysqlclient15-dev and libmysqlclient16-dev provide a virtual package libmysqlclient-dev?
[16:32] <mathiaz> is this something that should be done^^?
[16:32] <ScottK-desktop> And as we've discussed before, we either need to get Akonadi moved to 5.1 or make sure all the needed bits are co-installable.
[16:32] <persia> It's acceptable, as long as they conflict.
[16:32] <mathiaz> or only one should provide libmysqlclient-dev
[16:32] <jdstrand> mathiaz: with your plan, what happens when Debian replaces 5.0 with 5.1 and we try to sync in a future version of Ubuntu? and when users go intrepid -> jaunty -> ...
[16:32] <mathiaz> persia: right. What should be the build-dep then?
[16:33] <mathiaz> should package build-dep on libmysqlclient-dev?
[16:33]  * jdstrand is worried about an even bigger delta
[16:33] <mathiaz> or on libmysqlclient{15,16}-dev?
[16:33] <persia> mathiaz, Whichever version is desired.  I'd recommend having libmysqlclient16-dev not provide libmysqlclient-dev for now.
[16:33] <persia> By not providing, packages won't get built against 5.1 by accident.
[16:34] <mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't know.
[16:34] <ScottK-desktop> Step 3 of the plan that mathiaz and I discussed last night was "Beg Debian to do an Epoch and get things back in sync versionwise."
[16:34] <mathiaz> persia: right. mysql-dfsg-5.1 should only provide packages that are new.
[16:35] <mathiaz> persia: and conflicts with necessary existing packages.
[16:35] <mathiaz> persia: but not replacing existing packages.
[16:36] <persia> mathiaz, Right.
[16:36] <mathiaz> allright - so to summarize:
[16:36] <persia> ScottK-desktop, may not need an epoch, depending on the Debian transition plan, and status at both jaunty release and jaunty+1 release.
[16:37] <mathiaz> 1. mysql-5.1: provides libmysqlclient16-dev
[16:37] <ScottK-desktop> Maybe
[16:37] <mathiaz> 2. mysql-5.0: version 5.1.30really5.0.75
[16:37] <mathiaz> I'll upload these after the meeting.
[16:38] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient-dev package in jaunty.
[16:38] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to upload mysql packages to fix libmysqlclient-dev package in jaunty.
[16:38] <mathiaz> anything else to add on this specific subject?
[16:38] <zul> yep sorry about this
[16:38] <ScottK> mathiaz: Double check there aren't any other conflicting package names.
[16:39] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
[16:39] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] WebArchitecture
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  WebArchitecture
[16:39] <mathiaz> yann hammon around?
[16:40] <nijaba> mathiaz: no yann2 around...
[16:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok.
[16:40] <mathiaz> let's move on.
[16:40] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Server on NAS devices
[16:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Server on NAS devices
[16:40] <mathiaz> persia: ^^?
[16:41] <persia> Yep.  I have some nice little ARM servers: hobbyist versions of the Buffalo consumer NAS devices.  I'd like to run Ubuntu on them.  Further, I'd like this to be reasonable for normal users.
[16:41] <persia> What level of support should I expect, and what can I do to make that be "full"?
[16:42] <zul> ergh..
[16:42] <zul> i dont think the server team is equipped to support NAS devices
[16:43] <persia> OK.  What's missing?
[16:43] <zul> manpower for one
[16:43] <persia> To do what?
[16:43] <mathiaz> persia: first step: are all the packages required for running a NAS device built on ARM?
[16:44] <mathiaz> persia: then - which services you'd provide? nfs/cifs?
[16:44] <persia> mathiaz, I think so.  I would be expecting to run a fairly standard Ubuntu Server base configuration.  FTBFS is something I'm happy to chase towards that goal.
[16:44] <mathiaz> persia: ssh/sftp/avahi?
[16:44] <mathiaz> persia: I think almost all the main component are there.
[16:45] <persia> Well, that's why I wanted to discuss it.  I'll personally mostly use ssh, but I suspect it's interesting in a wider sense for other services (for other people).
[16:45]  * ScottK could see a NAS task if we had a scalable way to list out tasks....
[16:45] <mathiaz> persia: the only touchy thing is the administrative interface
[16:45] <persia> How so?
[16:45] <mathiaz> persia: do we have a standard way to create an admin interface for non-geeky users?
[16:46] <ScottK> Sounds like a good Jaunty+1 spec topic to me.
[16:46] <persia> Wasn't there a framework involving lenses that was intended to do that?  Or does ebox do that?
[16:46] <mathiaz> ScottK: agreed.
[16:46] <nijaba> mathiaz: isn't that what ebox solves?
[16:46] <mathiaz> yes.
[16:47] <mathiaz> ebox could do the job. we'd have to test it.
[16:47] <persia> I can certainly add an agenda item to the next UDS, but I'd think that there's probably a light-weight solution that might be interesting in the meantime, without extra packages, etc.  I don't really mind a geeky interface.
[16:47] <mathiaz> it may need to be trimmed down to only provide the necessary components for a NAS device
[16:48] <persia> Are there services in a default server that shouldn't be run?
[16:48] <mathiaz> persia: the default install doesn't run any service listening on the network
[16:48] <persia> Just because they sell it as a NAS device doesn't mean it's not a general-purpose computer.
[16:48] <mathiaz> persia: not even ssh
[16:49] <persia> The default Server install doesn't?  Oh.  I thought it did.
[16:49] <nijaba> persia: no, it is proposed as a task
[16:49] <ScottK> persia: I'd say "Make it work as a command line managed NAS" is a good Jaunty goal and "Make it non-geek friendly" is a good Jaunty+1 goal
[16:50] <persia> ScottK, That seems completely reasonable to me.  What can I do to address the Jaunty goal?
[16:50] <mathiaz> persia: so IMO we should first make sure that the file services are working correctly on ARM
[16:50] <mathiaz> persia: that means making sure samba and nfs are working correclty
[16:50] <ScottK> mathiaz: I think this is a reasonable task for tasksel.
[16:50] <mathiaz> persia: as well as dhcp.
[16:50] <persia> mathiaz, Is that just a matter of pushing an ARM install through the already published testcases?
[16:50] <ScottK> That or a metapackage of some kind.
[16:51] <mathiaz> persia: right - there is a testcase for samba
[16:51] <mathiaz> tasksel already has a samba server tasks.
[16:52] <mathiaz> persia: how important is that the NAS device provides NFS?
[16:52] <persia> mathiaz, I don't care about NFS personally, although maybe someone does.
[16:52] <mathiaz> persia: IMO it's just a matter of testing.
[16:52] <persia> I've hardware, so I'll volunteer to run an ARM install of Server through the test cases: shall I just file bugs on anything that doesn't work?
[16:52] <mathiaz> persia: making sure that samba, ssh and dhcp are working with the ARM platform
[16:53] <mathiaz> persia: seems like a good plan to me.
[16:53] <ScottK> Would we want anything different in an arm-server kernel that it's worth the trouble to make/maintain it?
[16:53] <mathiaz> and as ScottK mentionned, tackling the admin interface could be done during the next cycle.
[16:53] <persia> While I'm willing to chase some of the bugs, should I expect assistance from others to get them closed?
[16:53] <mathiaz> even though ebox may fit the bill.
[16:54] <persia> ScottK, There's already about 6 flavours of ARM kernel: I think NAS-specific is probably a jaunty+1 thought.
[16:54] <ScottK> persia: As I'm pretty sure you know, NCommander has been doing a lot of portability work on armel.
[16:54] <ScottK> persia: OK.
[16:54] <ScottK> He could probably be encouraged to help.
[16:54] <persia> Yes, I've been seeing that, which is one of the reasons I brought this up.
[16:57] <mathiaz> ok - let's move on.
[16:57] <mathiaz> I won't run the Open discussion topic.
[16:57] <mathiaz> If someone wanted to add something, please edit the Meeting wiki page
[16:57] <mathiaz> so that we can discuss it next week.
[16:57] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:58] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
[16:58] <mathiaz> next week, same time, same place?
[16:58] <nijaba> +1
[16:58] <sommer> +2
[16:58] <ScottK> mathiaz: One quick think libdb4.3 died this week.
[16:58]  * ScottK waves at vorian who is working on the lidbd consolidation stuff.
[16:59] <mathiaz> ScottK: great. thanks for reporting that.
[16:59] <mathiaz> so see you all next week, same time, same place
[16:59] <mathiaz> and happy iso testing for Alpha3 - due this week!
[16:59] <mathiaz> #endmeeting

MeetingLogs/Server/20090113 (last edited 2009-01-14 01:51:47 by mathiaz)