Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

Items we will be discussing:

• Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
• Roadmap review: contents and update

• Review progress made on the specification listed on the Roadmap.

• Open Discussion.
• Agree on next meeting date and time.

Minutes

ubuntu-tips

nijaba added more rules to the server tips wiki page. The main rules are that tips should not be any longer than 2 lines of 80 characters and they should be relevant to packages in main.

Merges

kirkland reminded that Debian Import Freeze was in effect and that the goal was to get all of the outstanding merges done by Feature Freeze on August 27. Working on merges is one great way to gain experience in order to become a MOTU.

Drbd

ivoks reported that he had been working on a new package for Ubuntu that used dkms. The package is currently available from the Ubuntu HA PPA and is waiting to be pushed in Karmic. The Debian maintainers have also shown interest in using a DKMS-enabled package.

Cluster stack

RoAkSoAx and ivoks worked on updating the cluster stack in the ubuntu-ha team. pacemaker, openais and corosync have been fixed and some of them are available from the Ubuntu HA PPA.

Php 5.3

zul and ajmitch have been looking at getting php 5.3 in karmic. 5.3 has been uploaded to experimental to get more testing there. The big difference with the current version in karmic (5.2) is that the suhosin patch has not been ported to 5.3 yet. The security team doesn't feel comfortable with shipping php without the suhosin patch enabled.

It was decided to push 5.3 into a PPA to get wider testing from the Ubuntu community. Once the suhosin patch is ported to 5.3 and enabled in the build 5.3 can be uploaded to karmic.

An ubuntu-php-team should also be created to handle the maintenance of the php PPA. There have also been some requests for backported versions of php. A PPA and -backports are options to handle this use case.

Agree on next meeting date and time

Next meeting will be on Tuesday, July 14th at 15:00 UTC in #ubuntu-meeting.

Log

[16:01] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:01] <kirkland> the agenda is ^
[16:01] <soren> kirkland: Do the #startmeeting thing.
[16:01] <kirkland> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is kirkland.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <soren> Or did you want to leave that to mathiaz?
[16:02] <kirkland> soren: i don't really know the mootbot commands
[16:02] <ajmitch> morning
[16:02] <soren> kirkland: Noone does. Just pretend.
[16:02] <kirkland> [TOPIC] agenda
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[16:02] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[16:02] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
[16:03]  * kirkland looks for action items
[16:03] <kirkland> ACTION: jmdault to start packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms
[16:04] <kirkland> jmdault: how's that coming?
[16:04] <kirkland> jmd<tab><tab> -> nothing
[16:04] <kirkland> anyone else workingo n packaging asterisk 1.6+dkms?
[16:05] <kirkland> ACTION: nijaba to add rules detailing what makes a relevant tip and what’s not
[16:05] <kirkland> looks like there has been some good discussion on the tips on the ubuntu-server@ list
[16:05] <kirkland> nijaba is at a conference today, and won't be here in attendance
[16:06] <kirkland> if you have ideas for tips, please get them to nijaba
[16:06] <kirkland> i think the current rules are "2 lines less than 80 characters"
[16:06] <kirkland> these would be randomly, optionally appended to the motd using update-motd
[16:06] <ajmitch> was it agreed whether it just be about packages in main?
[16:07] <kirkland> ajmitch: let me review the thread
[16:07] <zul> morning
[16:08] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/server-tips
[16:08] <kirkland> ajmitch: looks like exceptions can be made at the discretion of this team meeting
[16:09] <kirkland> ajmitch: ie, if there's something about universe (or some group of universe tips), those should be brought to this meeting or the mailing list
[16:09] <ajmitch> ok
[16:10] <kirkland> ACTION: ttx to add Roadmap Review to next meeting agenda
[16:10] <kirkland> ttx is on vacation at the moment, and isn't around to discuss this with us
[16:10] <kirkland> that's the end of last week's items
[16:10] <kirkland> did anyone else have any followups from last week's discussion?
[16:11] <kirkland> [TOPIC] RoadMap
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  RoadMap
[16:11] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[16:11] <kirkland> there's a few easy merges still out there
[16:12] <kirkland> anyone here hoping to become a MOTU this year?
[16:12] <zul> oooh...me
[16:12] <zul> oh wait..
[16:12] <ivoks> -> RoAkSoAx
[16:12]  * kirkland smacks zul :-)
[16:12] <ajmitch> zul: you don't qualify
[16:12] <RoAkSoAx> I am :)
[16:12]  * RoAkSoAx hoping to become MOTU this year 
[16:13]  * sommer has thought about it, but gets distracted :)
[16:13] <kirkland> merges are one of the best ways to really pump up your visibility
[16:13] <ajmitch> asterisk doesn't count as an easy merge anymore, I think heimdal was done at some point recently?
[16:13] <kirkland> Karmic's merge window is rapidly closing
[16:13] <kirkland> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[16:13] <kirkland> we've already hit debian import freeze
[16:14] <kirkland> merges will be pretty much done by Feature Freeze (August 27)
[16:14] <kirkland> as for Testing ....
[16:14] <kirkland> anyone here running Karmic?
[16:14] <kirkland> real hardware or vm's?
[16:14] <ivoks> i am, vm
[16:14] <RoAkSoAx> vm here too
[16:15] <ajmitch> I am, real hardware
[16:15] <kirkland> ivoks: RoAkSoAx: ajmitch: reporting bugs?
[16:15] <ivoks> probably we are all :)
[16:15] <kirkland> there's plenty out there :-)
[16:15] <kirkland> ivoks: i have it on my Thinkpad x61 ;-)
[16:15] <ajmitch> kirkland: of course
[16:15] <kirkland> cool, great, keep up the good work
[16:15] <ivoks> i'm not reporting; i'm fixing them :)
[16:16] <RoAkSoAx> I'm testing HA packages :)
[16:16]  * kirkland high-fives ivoks 
[16:16] <kirkland> that's all for the agenda
[16:16] <kirkland> [TOPIC] Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Name one cool Ubuntu thing you did last week
[16:17] <kirkland> ivoks: what did you fix last week?
[16:17] <ivoks> drbd
[16:17] <ivoks> still not uploaded into karmic, but it's on ppa
[16:17] <kirkland> ivoks: for the record, one liner about drbd, please
[16:17] <ivoks> and lots of pacemaker* openais* corosync* stuff
[16:17] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: what about you?
[16:18] <ivoks> drbd; debian is interested in dkms (http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/debian-ha-maintainers/2009-July/000126.html); we have a dkms enabled package in PPA
[16:18] <RoAkSoAx> kirkland, Fixed Heartbeat and now it is working, and I'm doing further testing
[16:18] <ivoks> and i'll probably upload it by the end of the week
[16:18] <kirkland> RoAkSoAx: nice
[16:18] <kirkland> ivoks: very good
[16:18] <kirkland> ajmitch: ?
[16:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: I've played with puppet and started to work on directory integration
[16:19] <ajmitch> looking at PHP 5.3 & starting to help out the debian team with various bits & pieces
[16:19] <mathiaz> kirkland: looks good so far :)
[16:19] <kirkland> mathiaz: cool, that sounds great
[16:19] <kirkland> ajmitch: PHP is always a big merge
[16:19] <kirkland> soren: zul: ?
[16:20] <ajmitch> kirkland: I know, I'm trying to reduce that :)
[16:20] <kirkland> ajmitch: that would be a huge help
[16:20] <zul> kirkland: i triaged alot of bugs amongst other things
[16:20] <kirkland> zul: nice, wanna help triage some KVM bugs?  :-)
[16:21] <zul> kirkland: if i had time ;)
[16:21] <soren> kirkland: Sorry, what?
[16:21] <kirkland> anyone else out there actively following this meeting that wants to mention something cool they worked on last week?
[16:21] <kirkland> soren: one cool Ubuntu-Server thing you did last week.
[16:21] <ivoks> napravi jos jednoga
[16:21] <soren> kirkland: Eucalyptus. A lot.
[16:21] <ivoks> ups... :)
[16:22] <kirkland> soren: nice
[16:22] <soren> THat sums up last week pretty well, actually :)
[16:22] <kirkland> so soren and I sprinted with the Eucalyptus folks last week
[16:22] <kirkland> i worked on two new tools for the Ubuntu server, powernap and powerwake
[16:22] <kirkland> i should be blogging an announcement about that this week
[16:23] <kirkland> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i gather you're back now?\
[16:23] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think we've covered the agenda
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes
[16:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: great
[16:23] <zul> so I have something
[16:23] <kirkland> zul: hit me
[16:24] <zul> so ajmitch and a bunch of users have been asking for php 5.3 in karmic ajmitch has more information about what needs to be done so Ill let him take it from here
[16:24] <ajmitch> right
[16:25] <ajmitch> as you probably saw, it's been uploaded to debian experimental for some testing
[16:25] <ajmitch> 5.3 introduces a few big changes, and probably some bugs, such as the suhosin patch not updated for 5.3 yet
[16:26] <ajmitch> currently we're down to just 1 patch difference from debian, aside from the changes to debian/{rules,control}, but it's undecided whether we should stick with 5.2.10 in karmic, or go with 5.3
[16:27] <ajmitch> anyone have any preferences on that? :)
[16:28] <kirkland> ajmitch: is 5.3 GA upstream at php.net?
[16:28] <ivoks> i always considered non-LTS releases as a playground for testing new stuff, so i'd support going for 5.3
[16:28] <mathiaz> ajmitch: why should we move to 5.3?
[16:28] <kirkland> ajmitch: or is it a beta/dev release?
[16:28] <zul> i dont have a problem with it the only thing is the suhosin patch is not applied
[16:28] <zul> yet
[16:29] <ajmitch> it's now a stable release on php.net
[16:29] <mathiaz> zul: what would be the timeframe to get the suhosin patch updated to 5.3?
[16:29] <ajmitch> mathiaz: because of the number of new features that have been added that people are already asking for
[16:29] <kirkland> ajmitch: okay, that's a good thing;  as mathiaz said, what's the motivation for 5.3?
[16:29] <zul> mathiaz: dunno
[16:29] <mathiaz> is it fair to say that shipping without suhosin would be a feature regression?
[16:30] <ajmitch> apart from the super-awesome ones like goto, it adds namespaces, closures, late static bindings, plus a few pecl extensions moved into the core
[16:30] <zul> mathiaz: yes imho
[16:30] <mathiaz> ajmitch: ok - so code that would run on jaunty would not work on karmic if we move to 5.3?
[16:30] <ajmitch> iirc we enable the core part of suhosin & have the rest available as an extension at the moment
[16:31] <ajmitch> mathiaz: it ought to work on karmic, they've deprecated but not removed things in 5.3
[16:31] <mathiaz> ajmitch: ok. I'm unfamiliar with the suhosin patch
[16:31] <ajmitch> I haven't seen what's needed to be changed for the suhosin patch, it's not a small patch
[16:32] <mathiaz> ajmitch: thus my naive questions - does the suhosin patch introduce new construct?
[16:32] <mathiaz> ajmitch: or is it just performance improvements?
[16:32] <ajmitch> suhosin patch is for security & restricts PHP some more, catches some bugs
[16:32] <ajmitch> I haven't seen a mention on the debian list of when it may be added back in
[16:33] <mathiaz> ajmitch: would some scripts break if the suhosin patch is not applied?
[16:33] <ajmitch> No, they shouldn't
[16:33] <mathiaz> jdstrand: mdeslaur: what's your opinion on shipping php without the suhosin patch?
[16:34] <ajmitch> I believe that the patch would likely be enabled again in debian by feature freeze, though couldn't guarantee that
[16:35] <mathiaz> ajmitch: hm ok.
[16:35] <kirkland> ajmitch: i wonder if a php ppa might be the best place for it until that point?
[16:35] <kirkland> ajmitch: for instance, i'm providing daily upstream builds of qemu, qemu-kvm, and libvirt for testing
[16:35] <ajmitch> kirkland: sounds logical
[16:35] <kirkland> ajmitch: i'm using those to refine the packaging, and do some testing
[16:36] <mathiaz> right - that seems like a reasonable plan to my - 5.3 in a PPA
[16:36] <kirkland> ajmitch: without forcing that on someone
[16:36] <jdstrand> it would be disappointing to see it go
[16:36] <kirkland> ajmitch: my goal being to migrate from there into karmic as soon as its ready
[16:36] <mathiaz> until the suhosin patch is reenabled in which case it can be pushed to karmic
[16:36] <ajmitch> I was going to throw it in my PPA first, as I said, it's still in experimental
[16:36] <kirkland> ajmitch: right
[16:37] <mathiaz> so the plan would be to wait for the suhosin patch to be renenabled and if done so before FF push 5.3 in karmic?
[16:37] <ajmitch> ok
[16:38] <mathiaz> is there an ubuntu-php-team ?
[16:39] <ajmitch> not that I saw, which is why i'm trying to start doing stuff in the debian team instead
[16:39] <mathiaz> ajmitch: right - that's a great way to collaborate
[16:39] <mathiaz> I was also thinking about setting up a team PPA
[16:40] <ajmitch> I know at least one of the debian maintainers is active on launchpad in looking at PHP bugs
[16:40] <ivoks> would it be possible to provide packages for older ubuntu releases?
[16:40] <mathiaz> to push the 5.3 package in the team PPA and ask people to test it there
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: with a PPA - sure
[16:40] <ivoks> of course, with a ppa
[16:40] <ajmitch> ivoks: it should be, though some other things may need to be backported
[16:40] <mathiaz> ivoks: or using -backports
[16:40] <mdeslaur> I wouldn't want to shit php without the suhosin patch...
[16:40] <mdeslaur> s/shit/ship/
[16:40] <jdstrand> mathiaz: re feature regression> http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/a_feature_list.html lists the stuff that would be lost in dropping the patch
[16:41] <mathiaz> mdeslaur: jdstrand: great. thanks for your input.
[16:41] <mathiaz> mdeslaur: jdstrand: the plan is to wait for the suhosin patch to be ported to 5.3 before uploading to karmic
[16:42] <mdeslaur> whoa...freudian slip on my part there
[16:42] <ajmitch> mdeslaur: understandable ;)
[16:43] <ajmitch> right, I'll look at getting an ubuntu team setup for the PPA
[16:43] <mathiaz> ajmitch: awesome - thanks:)
[16:43] <ivoks> that would be great, indeed
[16:44] <mathiaz> and then announce it on the planet
[16:44] <mathiaz> IIRC it worked well for the ubuntu-ha team
[16:44] <mathiaz> ivoks: ^^??
[16:44] <ajmitch> that'd require me to actually setup a blog, what a shocking thought
[16:45] <ivoks> yeah... we had more members of ubuntu-ha than i hoped for
[16:45] <ivoks> ajmitch: abuse ubuntu-server blog :D
[16:45] <mathiaz> ivoks: and you're using multiple PPAs to handle package?
[16:45] <ivoks> yes
[16:45] <ivoks> one for stable drbd for all ubuntu versions
[16:45] <ivoks> and one development ppa for all other stuff
[16:46] <mathiaz> ivoks: awesome! may be the ubuntu-php team could be modeled after that in the medium-term
[16:46] <ivoks> sure
[16:47] <ivoks> i'm just not aware how to create access restrictions to ppas
[16:47] <ivoks> and who was right to upload to ppa anyway? all members of the team or just administrators?
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - that's a good questions
[16:47] <mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know the answer yet.
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: I think it would be great to use a LP mailing list to gather users and anounce new package upload to be tested
[16:48] <mathiaz> ivoks: but still restrict who can upload to the PPAs.
[16:48] <ivoks> we annonunced it on ubuntu-ha ml
[16:49] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - and who can subscribe to the ubuntu-ha ml?
[16:49] <ivoks> members of ubuntu-ha
[16:49] <mathiaz> ivoks: right - who could also upload to the ubuntu-ha PPAs?
[16:50] <RoAkSoAx> I think only administrators can upload to PPA
[16:50] <ivoks> that's what i don't know... i hope that not all members are able to upload to ppa
[16:50] <ivoks> i really hope only admins can do that :)
[16:50] <ajmitch> I think all members, from what I recall?
[16:50] <ajmitch> #launchpad would know
[16:50] <mathiaz> ivoks: I don't know either - #launchpad is the best place to ask
[16:50] <ivoks> right
[16:50] <dholbach> RoAkSoAx: I think all members
[16:51] <ivoks> that could be an issue :)
[16:51] <mathiaz> dholbach: do you have examples of other teams that handle that correctly?
[16:51] <RoAkSoAx> gonna ask on #launchpad
[16:52] <dholbach> mathiaz: correctly? just create a team that has just uploaders in it, create a PPA for them and you're done :)
[16:52] <mathiaz> dholbach: right - that's what I though
[16:52] <mathiaz> create an ubuntu-{ha,php}-maintainers team
[16:52] <mathiaz> and an ubuntu-{ha,php} team
[16:53] <mathiaz> the former with PPAs, the latter with mailing lists.
[16:53] <ivoks> we should really fix the design then
[16:53] <ivoks> ACL's on PPA
[16:54] <RoAkSoAx> yep
[16:54] <RoAkSoAx> gonna create the ubuntu-ha-maintainers team then
[16:54] <kirkland> okay, guys, are we wrapping this up?
[16:54]  * nealmcb1 returns from a two-week vacation in the wilds of Utah and Colorado and slowly gets back in the routine....
[16:55] <ajmitch> kirkland: I hope so, it's nearly 4AM :)
[16:55] <kirkland> i think we have a consensus, php in a ppa, get suhosin, then merge 5.3 into karmic
[16:55] <kirkland> ajmitch: heh
[16:55] <kirkland> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
[16:55] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
[16:55] <kirkland> same time/place?
[16:55] <ivoks> yep, 3AM ajmitch time
[16:56] <ajmitch> different time would be lovely, but I'm probably one of the few in this area of the world
[16:56] <ajmitch> it's been discussed before & too few people would be around at other times, I think?
[16:56] <mathiaz> ajmitch: yeah - :/
[16:56] <RoAkSoAx> it's 11 am here and it's still early for me :) xD
[16:56] <ivoks> how about moving it +2?
[16:56] <ajmitch> no big problem either way, I don't want to disrupt it for people
[16:57] <mathiaz> ivoks: that would not fit well with europeans - they eat at this time
[16:57] <ivoks> i'm european :)
[16:57] <ivoks> who eats at 7PM?
[16:57] <ivoks> that's not healty :)
[16:57] <mathiaz> ivoks: soren and ttx apparently
[16:57]  * ajmitch would go with same time/place next week
[16:59] <ivoks> ok
[16:59] <ivoks> -#endmeeting
[16:59] <kirkland> #endmeeting