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Ubuntu Open Week - Launchpad Q&A - Kiko - Tue, Oct 23, 2007

see also Thursday session.

18:08 -!- LjL changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Ubuntu Open Week info: Information and Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Ubuntu classroom transcripts: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClassroomTranscripts | Please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat not here | Current session: Launchpad Q&A - Kiko
18:08 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+v kiko] by LjL
18:08 < begert__> its a very interesting topic
18:09 <+kiko> Evening
18:09 <+kiko> I'm here, and you are here
18:09 <+heno> I'm not
18:09 <+kiko> so let's start out some Launchpad QA
18:09 <@LjL> kiko (Christian Reis) will now hold a questions and answers session about Launchpad
18:10 <+kiko> post your questions to #ubuntu-classroom-chat and I'll take a go at giving a good answer.
18:10 <+kiko> <nealmcb> QUESTION: We've seen some tantalizing hints of OpenID working in the wild with launchpad as a provider.  What are the plans going forward?  We're looking forward to reducing the need for multiple logins for ubuntu activists.
18:10 <+kiko> nealmcb, it's true, and you're right :)
18:11 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o LjL] by LjL
18:11 <+kiko> nealmcb, we put in a lot of effort this cycle into producing an OpenID implementation, and it's now actually being used for one partner site (the Ubuntu shop -- http://shop.ubuntu.com/)
18:11 < nealmcb> (I'm particularly interested in use by locos)
18:11 <+kiko> nealmcb, there are some additional changes we're working on that will make life better for loco sites -- an extension to OpenID that lets you ask if a user is in a certain group.
18:12 <+kiko> nealmcb, this is all very new and we're still sorting out policies, but expect more documentation about this by the end of the year
18:12 < nealmcb> :-)
18:12 <+kiko> nealmcb, it currently "works" and if you try and log in to the shop you'll see you're redirected to login.launchpad.net
18:13 <+kiko> (it's one of the topics up for discussion in next week's LP team lead meeting, btw)
18:15 <+kiko> <dorto> QUESTION: Is there any plan to make one Launchpad user account work across all the Ubuntu websites? (say Ubuntu Forums)
18:16 <+kiko> the answer is the same as above -- yes, via OpenID we now have infrastructure to do this properly (instead of via that horrible hack that is used to authenticate Ubuntu wiki users)
18:16 <+kiko> I am in a meeting on the topic of forum integration at UDS, apparently :)
18:16 <+kiko> <javamaniac> QUESTION: Does LP will have an public api to gather data from him and send as well? maybe a SOAP or ReST API
18:17 <+kiko> currently, we have a very skinny set of public APIs
18:17 <+kiko> I'll give three exhibits
18:17 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o LjL] by ChanServ
18:17 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-vv heno liw] by LjL
18:17 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [-o LjL] by LjL
18:17 <+kiko> a) An XMLRPC interface for posting bugs at https://help.launchpad.net/MaloneXMLRPC
18:19 <+kiko> b) A set of RDF exports for products and teams and people: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugs/+rdf  -  https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+rdf -- https://edge.launchpad.net/~kiko/+rdf
18:19 <+kiko> c) A text rendering of bug data: https://edge.launchpad.net/bugs/1/+text
18:19 <+kiko> these were mostly hacked up jobs that solved specific problems at the time
18:20 <+kiko> this cycle we have a team put together to focus on two related subjects: Public APIs and feeds
18:20 <+kiko> there are some tricky bits to handle, including authentication (since you want to be able to actually let people change things through this API, you need to consider authentications and sessions)
18:21 <+kiko> we will have publically visible results early next year
18:21 <+kiko> infrastructure is being deployed in this cycle and we should have a few examples popping up by December
18:21 -!- mode/#ubuntu-classroom [+o kiko] by ChanServ
18:22 <@kiko> I don't know a lot of specifics about what form the APIs will take -- if it will be REST or otherwise -- but I will post about it.
18:23 <@kiko> (when I know more :)
18:28 <@kiko> <dorto> QUESTION: Any update on whether/when Launchpad source code will be released to general public? Is it currently given to _anyone_ who asks for it(under restricted license)?
18:29 < shane_> QUESTION: I have an Acer laptop on which suspend worked fine in Dapper and Edgy. But since Edgy suspend has been broken and during the 'tribe' phases of Gutsy I did test it and submitted a bug report on Launchpad... but as of Tribe 5 it still didnt work. Why do we have this regression that is seemingly hard to fix?
18:29 < LjL> shane_: A session is in progress, please only ask related questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat
18:29 < dorto> shane_: this is not a support channel. Try #ubuntu
18:29 <@kiko> shane_, ANSWER: visit answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
18:29 <@kiko> There has actually been a lot of discussion about OSSing LP internally as of late, but still no concrete decision in terms of dates and time
18:30 < shane_> oops that was meant for -chat sorry..
18:30 <@kiko> it is a difficult decision for many of the stakeholders
18:31 <@kiko> so no promises, just allusions to possibilities; sorry.
18:31 <@kiko> <javamaniac> QUESTION: Does exist some way for a non-canonical staff to implement some LP blueprint?
18:31 <@kiko> it depends. that question might be asking if non-canonical staff can work on Launchpad code; the answer to that is no -- to me "not yet", but right now, "no".
18:32 <@kiko> there are some bits of work that are external to launchpad that /could/ be worked on
18:33 <@kiko> one example is cscvs, which is used for syncing other repositories into bzr branches
18:33 <@kiko> cscvs /is/ released as free software, and there are quite a few bugs related to it
18:33 <@kiko> however, there has been no community interaction or interest to date (I wonder why <wink>)
18:34 <@kiko> another example is in integration with other bugtrackers; we're currently using screen-scraping and all sorts of unorthodox methods to pull data from certain bug trackers
18:34 <@kiko> it would be really cool if we did get contributors to produce machine-readable exports of bug data in these trackers
18:35 <@kiko> Mantis is one such tracker
18:35 <@kiko> for cscvs, see https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs
18:36 <@kiko> if you are interested in working on bug tracker features, talk to me and I'll get you talking to an interested engineer
18:36 <@kiko> <wnorrix_> QUESTION: Is launchpad.net trying to replace sourceforget.net ?
18:36 <@kiko> I'm not familiar with sourceforget.net. :)
18:37 <@kiko> the real answer is: not exactly, but we do provide projects with similar services
18:37 < wnorrix_> typo.. sourceforge.net
18:38 <@kiko> we are a project hosting solution
18:38 <@kiko> we do provide source control, bug hosting, question tracking
18:38 <@kiko> we're not exactly a sourceforge match, of course
18:38 <@kiko> so the answer is it depends on what your project needs.
18:39 <@kiko> (if all it needs is a todo list on windows then Launchpad is trying to replace notepad.exe too ;-)
18:40 <@kiko> <dorto> QUESTION: Are projects completely unrelated to Ubuntu(even by long shot) welcome to be hosted on Launchpad? Would you rate it to be on par with Sourforge/Savannah? (at least bazaar is too superior)
18:40 <@kiko> wow, good question.
18:40 <@kiko> the answer is a very strong YES
18:41 <@kiko> we are thrilled to host your project on Launchpad
18:41 <@kiko> and we do host many many projects that are unrelated to Ubuntu
18:41 < Myrtti> exaile <3
18:41 <@kiko> one good example is launchpad.net/zope3 ; another is launchpad.net/exaile :)
18:41 <@kiko> in fact, Launchpad is actually run quite separately to Ubuntu
18:42 <@kiko> (which does cause some exasperation to the Ubuntu developers at times)
18:42 <@kiko> our missing is to provide a general open source hosting facility
18:42 <@kiko> supporting Ubuntu is mostly useful within that mission in that distributions are great magnets for users, bugs and code. ;)
18:47 <@kiko> <dorto> kiko: that's great to hear. QUESTION: Which is the best source to read to get started with project hosting on Launchpad? All I find are unfinished blueprints.
18:47 <@kiko> dorto, yes! https://help.launchpad.net/FeatureHighlights
18:47 <@kiko> dorto, also, https://edge.launchpad.net/+about
18:48 <@kiko> tell me if you think those aren't good enough starting points
18:48 <@kiko> and I'll produce a document
18:49 <@kiko> <nealmcb> QUESTION: What is a good structure for a small code development team like loco-django.  Just use one team for simplicity?  Have an overall team for users and a -dev team to own the code?  When is a -bugs team useful, in practice?  Is there a set of best practices or recipies out there?
18:49 <@kiko> okay, /this/ is a great question.
18:49 <@kiko> the answer is (of course) it depends on what you want.
18:49 <@kiko> if your team is really small -- say 2 or 3 people -- then using a single team makes things easier
18:49 <@kiko> why would you want to split things up? there are basically two reasons.
18:50 <@kiko> a) trust. there are certain tasks you may want to restrict to a certain group of users. in this situation, you might want to use a separate team for core versus community, or something like that.
18:50 <@kiko> for instance, product drivers can approve nominated bugs and blueprints.
18:51 <@kiko> b) email. because some roles are actually "announcement roles", in the sense that we notify them through email on certain events, it is sometimes useful to split teams up to provide a high-level separation.
18:52 <@kiko> the bug and security contacts are the most obvious cases. bug contacts get emailed on all traffic on bugs for your project. security contacts get emailed on all traffic related to bugs that are security-related in your project.
18:52 <@kiko> there are valid reasons why you might not want everybody in the development team to receive all security-related email.
18:53 <@kiko> of course, you can use a team or an individual in any of these roles
18:53 <@kiko> so a security contact can very well be an individual
18:53 <@kiko> and if you don't want all of your team members to receive all bugmail, you can use a separate -qa or -bugs team
18:54 <@kiko> (it's understandable why Ubuntu does it given bug volume, of course :)
18:54 <@kiko> <samgee> QUESTION: Is it possible to work on (libre) cscvs without using (non-libre) Launchpad?
18:54 <@kiko> samgee, sure. cscvs is free software -- launchpad just uses it internally.
18:55 <@kiko> samgee, it was released with the intention that some community members could help get the import service working better -- but nothing has happened so far. wanna help that change? :)
18:55 < samgee> yeah, but what about filing bugs and such?
18:55 <@kiko> <zeth> QUESTION You said "There has actually been a lot of discussion about OSSing LP internally" - what parts of LP are there that are not open source yet that might be useful to the wider world?
18:56 <@kiko> samgee, bugs are filed against cscvs normally -- have you seen https://edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs/+bugs ?
18:56 <@kiko> samgee, and the code is available at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-cscvs/
18:56 <@kiko> see https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad/launchpad-cscvs/rocketfuel
18:57 <@kiko> zeth, that's actually a good question. OSS launchpad would be useful to allow you to fix bugs in the service which affect you, and would also allow you to deploy a version of launchpad yourself.
18:57 <@kiko> the former makes sense, though you would still theoretically depend on our review and release process to get the code accepted (as with any other OSS project)
18:58 <@kiko> the latter makes less sense, since we designed Launchpad to provide a service so you didn't have to run a copy yourself
18:58 <@kiko> in a way it would be nonsensical to run your own copy of Launchpad and not benefit from having access to other project's code, bugs, translations, etc.
18:59 <@kiko> <Seveas> QUESTION: is it possible for a company to use a private, internally hosted, instance of launchpad as project management tool? And if so, who should I contact for getting a pricing quote on that?
19:01 <@kiko> Seveas, it's a possibility, though not currently possible, IYKWIM. it /is/ possible to use the service privately (i.e. your data is kept safely with us, but not disclosed to the public by default, and you control disclosure) you should contact statik (elliot@canonical.com) to request pricing for this.
19:01 <@kiko> <zeth> QUESTION Thanks kiki, but I am more wondering if there are there any parts left that are like Storm, i.e. that would be useful to other types of web application that are not project hosting services
19:02 <@kiko> there is /one/ piece of web application infrastructure that we will release, but it's currently hard to split out so it hasn't been done yet.
19:02 <@kiko> it's the zope3-based platform upon which LP is based.
19:02 <@kiko> talk to flacoste about that if you are interested -- it's a short-term project to get it released.
19:03 <@kiko> wnorrix, you mentioned a PPA tutorial.
19:03 <@kiko> wnorrix, I'd suggest you check out https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart first
19:04 <@kiko> <samgee> I'm kind of a free software purist, so I want to avoid using non-free software, even if it is to help a great project like Ubuntu. So I really want Launchpad to become free software. Helping with cscvs looks like a good way to do that. I could write the code without Launchpad, but I would have to use Launchpad for everything else (checking in, bugs, whatever). Is there a way around that?
19:05 <@kiko> if you wanted to, you could email patches to david allouche for inclusion
19:05 <@kiko> it would be weird to not want to use the bug tracker or bzr hosting
19:05 <@kiko> but I guess if you refuse to use google search then that would be a consistent position.
19:06 < Seveas> s/google search/pretty much every website :)/
19:07 <@kiko> samgee, that's ddaa@canonical.com -- David Allouche, maintainer of cscvs.
19:08 <@kiko> <dorto> QUESTION : Is there a specific reason why help.launchpad.net isn't linked to from Launchpad's home page? Am I missing something?
19:08 <@kiko> dorto, I guess it's a bug. I'll fix it and will include it in tomorrow's rollout. :)
19:11  * kiko fishes for any last questions