This is the nth meeting of the UKTeam, starting at xx:xx GMT and finishing at xx:xx GMT
Please type PRESENT at the start of the meeting to ensure we are all clear who is online and paying attention. Active Atendees:
When adding an agenda item please "sign" it by leaving your name next to it. If you won't be attending the meeting please also spell out your item in detail, otherwise we can't fruitfully discuss it.
Lugradio Live - Who is going? Are we planning any Ubuntu-uk activities? - DaveWalker
Proposal for #ubuntu-uk-offtopic - DaveWalker
Meeting management and organisation - NikButler
Guadec / Lug Radio / Linux World Expo - NikButler
Speakers; Jono asked for them and nothing happened - NikButler
Competition ; Matt asked for entries and nothing seemed to happen - NikButler
Discuss a leadership vote - DaveWalker
Lugradio Live - Who is going? Are we planning any Ubuntu-uk activities? - DaveWalker ; lets allocate 10 mins to this for now. John Levin and Mez [sic] were responsible for organising the ordering of CDs for the show and it was agreed that a Formal/Informal meeting would be held at Lugradio Live during the BOF session. THis was to be a formal meeting should provision of IRC and internet access allow.
Proposal for #ubuntu-uk-offtopic - DaveWalker it was agreed there would not be an off-topic channel for ubuntu-uk
Meeting management and organisation - NikButler There were not direct issues of agreement or action here however AlanPope ( popey ) raised the issue over leadership votes and roles and it was suggested to address this at the end of the meeting.
Guadec / Lug Radio / Linux World Expo - NikButler It was recognised that a number of events were coming up and that suitable notification and awareness on the wiki, mailist and irc would be appropriate.
Speakers; Jono asked for them and nothing happened - NikButler Nik Butler was to update Jono with the suggested details of Pete, Mark and Alan.
Competition ; Matt asked for entries and nothing seemed to happen - NikButler there was no direct corroletion of agreement here but it was discussed that community involvement was potentially an issue and this was tabled for the next meeting
Discuss a leadership vote - DaveWalker There was no conclusion to this and Daviey asked popey to compile concerns/arguements about this before the next meeting although this was not formally agreed upon.
Any Other Business
Swearing in Ubuntu-UK was to be left to the channel operators discretion and toreview policies with ubuntu-ops
The meeting was concluded with a notional agreement that Lugradio live would be the next formal meeting date
The chairman of the meeting should endeavour to ensure that key points are discussed in an appropriate time. Key Topics from the Agenda should be tabled in the channel using a market such as [ TOPIC ] or * TOPIC * Followed by the agenda item. Where Suggestions or Ideas are put forward and considered as acceptable to the group then it should be noted by the Chairman as [ IDEA ] or * IDEA * . Where a concept is discussed and agreed the use of [ AGREED ] or * AGREED * should be defined by the chairman and should signify the topic is discussed and the meeting is to move on. Be clear on the channel when the meeting is concluded and how and when the minutes will be posted.
<LoudMouthMan> #startmeeting <MootBot> Meeting started at 19:11. The chair is LoudMouthMan. <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] <cinex> well that was a corker <LoudMouthMan> I do like the bot. <Daviey> I chaired the last meeting.. what a joke <GazzaK> short meeting, cool, i'm off to the pub <LoudMouthMan> okay Ladies and Gents we have a 4 min recess whilst we await peoples arrival and agenda updates. <LoudMouthMan> theres not much and the following guidelines for the meeting may apply <sampbar> can i add to the agenda: Better organised meetings? :P <popey> sampbar: it IS a wiki <LoudMouthMan> The Meeting is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070603Meeting <sampbar> popey: i wasnt being serious <popey> i was <sampbar> you want me to add it? <Overtone> Sampbar: that's covered by LoudMouthMan's agenda item, me thinks! <sampbar> ah yes :) <LoudMouthMan> Right some guidelines. again the minutes of the meeting are defined ni the agenda. to avoid long debate please familarise yourself with the content and consider your comments. <LoudMouthMan> the aim is to reach agreement or to agree that the item doesnot carry enough wieght to gain a resolution and to agree to table or drop it . <LoudMouthMan> 1 minute please <LoudMouthMan> Right lets begin , is everyone here ,here please let me know witha present before I post the first topic . <LoudMouthMan> present <spd106> PRESENT <Overtone> present <Daviey> PRESENT <sampbar> PRESENT <popey> present <moogman> present <thingy> present <LoudMouthMan> anyone else ? * Daviey hopes <cinex> present * sampbar thinks: are all these presents for me? <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Lugradio Live - Who is going? Are we planning any Ubuntu-uk activities? - DaveWalker ; lets allocate 10 mins to this for now. <MootBot> New Topic: Lugradio Live - Who is going? Are we planning any Ubuntu-uk activities? - DaveWalker ; lets allocate 10 mins to this for now. <LoudMouthMan> DaveWalker ; go ahead; <LoudMouthMan> I am guessing he is not here; <Daviey> Okay, Lugradio live is a major event for the FOSS community and lugs in general. I already know many people are going. But Would like to confirm who and are we planing any event and/or publicity <LoudMouthMan> Does anyone have any comments on this ? <GazzaK> PRESENT <LoudMouthMan> thanks... <GazzaK> LRL - sadly I canna go :'( <Overtone> Can you give a quick what when and where? <LoudMouthMan> I will be going and I note this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LugRadioLive2007 <LoudMouthMan> That John Levin will be organising the Ubuntu ( uk ? ) stand . <sampbar> I wont be going.. too far <popey> can we get in contact with john and see whats happening? <LoudMouthMan> popey: ive sent another direct email and had no response. the last comments were along the lines that it was going to be pretty much as had gone before. <Daviey> Is john the chap organising our presences? <NativeAngels> hello Daviey <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: for this venue yes. <cinex> is there going to be an orgy of drinking ? <popey> i am on the crew for lrl so will probably not be able to help on the stand much <Daviey> So, if we don't hear back from John - shall we look at organising our own things? <popey> he will be there <popey> he was there last year organised the ubuntu-uk bof <popey> which I attended :) <LoudMouthMan> hah ! popey your like everywhere though <Grin> <popey> if it is the same as last year then we wont have a stand will we? <Daviey> Do we need a bunch of CD's - Most attendees being FOSS followers i'm suspecting not.. <popey> last year we didnt have a stand <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: I dont think or feel thats a good Ubuntu approach though i think it would be better to make a concerted effort to help/join in <leftcase> hi <popey> Daviey: i think we should have cds <LoudMouthMan> well last year Ubuntu-uk didnt have recognition. <popey> john had some last year <LoudMouthMan> I have requested CDs and will poke jono about this also <popey> and there are plenty of non-ubuntu people there <cinex> Daviey: I think there should be cds <LoudMouthMan> I seem to remember walkign out with 100 Cds last year. <cinex> Daviey: even if you wonder the streets of wolves handing out the ones left over ... <Daviey> The reason i wondered not - most people there would have dl'd an ISO and burned previously. Don't want to waste resources <LoudMouthMan> anyway . heres the thing . what do we want to do next ? <popey> i had some leftovers and took them away <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: sure but lets consider it a opportunity to distribute them ? <Daviey> Sounds good <sampbar> force them on people <LoudMouthMan> lets use LRL as the Half way point for Ubuntu-uk <LoudMouthMan> where we gather together, share resources and redefine directions as we head towards LWE. <popey> +1 <LoudMouthMan> I think we can safely say that it might be better to organise a LRL BOF for Ubuntu UK and have a meeting there . <Daviey> So from where i'm stood - there's little we can do until we hear from John <popey> LoudMouthMan: thereis an ubuntu-uk bof already isn't there? <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: yes . but its june now and I will be ramping up my communication / concerns. <LoudMouthMan> popey: yes <LoudMouthMan> some chap called jono is running it i think <Daviey> who? <Daviey> never heard of him <cinex> perhaps some goals should be outlined before the 'battle plans' ? <LoudMouthMan> actually its not "labelled" but lets assume we are all going to be there <LoudMouthMan> cinex: heheh yes well I will publich a agenda ( more on that later ) <LoudMouthMan> publish even. <popey> ok, just mailed jono to find out what his plans are for the BoF <LoudMouthMan> sheesh this german beer is getting to me <LoudMouthMan> okay so actions for this event ? <LoudMouthMan> [ACTION] Nik to email John Levin and get an update for the ubuntu-uk mail list <MootBot> ACTION received: Nik to email John Levin and get an update for the ubuntu-uk mail list <popey> +1 <LoudMouthMan> [ACTION] Popey to review jonos reply re BOF <MootBot> ACTION received: Popey to review jonos reply re BOF <LoudMouthMan> are we agreed to make the next Ubuntu-UK meeting the LRL Bof and make sure we can either Ustream or irc the content in ? <LoudMouthMan> we will need to post to the list ( it has been quiet lately ) <popey> well <popey> the lrl guys are going to stream the videos from lrl <sampbar> agreed as long as people who arent their can access the meeting some how <popey> not via ustream, but it should be visible to the outside works <popey> world <popey> sampbar: cant guarantee that <popey> we have no idea if wifi will work <sampbar> or just logs? <LoudMouthMan> sampbar: indeed we can only do our best though . however I am leaning to wards a quorum in this case. <Daviey> sampbar: best effort will be done.. Even if it is an audio recording for later listening <sampbar> :) sounds good <popey> sampbar: logs of real world conversations arent the same as logs on irc <LoudMouthMan> yeah .. only dogs can hear me in rl <sampbar> lol <popey> i used my mp3 player to record the bofs i was in <LoudMouthMan> okay . so . moving on ? <popey> i can do that again <popey> yres <LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] Ubuntu-uk meeting at LRL and post this to mailing list . <MootBot> AGREED received: Ubuntu-uk meeting at LRL and post this to mailing list . <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Proposal for #ubuntu-uk-offtopic - DaveWalker <MootBot> New Topic: Proposal for #ubuntu-uk-offtopic - DaveWalker <Daviey> where the heck is DaveMorris - it was his proposal to have the meeting on a Sunday - so he could attend! <leftcase> lol <Daviey> Currently #ubuntu-uk hosts a fantastic amount of communication. However a large propotion is 'offtopic'. Considering these logs are made publically avaliable there are some concerns that an 'offtopic' channel be formed, leaving #Ubuntu-uk to pure LoCo and on-topic chat. As a case example, #ubuntu-de does have this principle, it seems to be effective. <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: hahah life and what happens to you. <popey> ok, first question for this "what is ON topic" for here? <cinex> I second that motion <LoudMouthMan> popey: +1 <sampbar> im not sure... offtopic would be useful for my python discussions though <popey> i disagree <popey> i like hearing your stuf <leftcase> Erm - I'm not sure how many would sit in various channels .... <cinex> offtopic would be, im assuming, our discussion of the BBC. <sampbar> popey: seriously? <popey> and for the most part nobody else has been talking when you have been <LoudMouthMan> I think off topic would be where Daviey and I get into less trouble. <popey> i dont think the traffic herewarrants it <popey> and i dont like the idea of splitting the channel <popey> one or either would become idle IMO * Daviey feels that #ubuntu-uk being a drop in for many newbies, should join in the middle of a heated discussion <Daviey> sorry, shouldn't have used the term newbies. <sampbar> new people to ubuntu <LoudMouthMan> Im not sure its a traffic issue though ? but I think if we get into "censoring" content on any scale we risk loosing much signal to the noise. <popey> i think newbies should be sent to the official support channels initialy <moogman> Is the offtopic chat intrusive enough to not be able to follow ontopic threads, and annoying enough to be moved to a separate channel? offtopic chat can [sometimes] be constructive... <popey> but if people offer to help then let them <LoudMouthMan> I understand the concern but I feel community is not about segregation. <Daviey> but that doesn't happen <popey> no moogman <sampbar> that is very busy though and puts people off <popey> not IMO <popey> i point people to #ubuntu quite a bit <LoudMouthMan> and I dont wish to begin to discriminate about content. <popey> but then go on to help them <Daviey> In the last month, how many people have been redirected to a main support channel? <sampbar> not that many <popey> i have done it at least 3 times <popey> grep the logs for my name and the word "support" <GazzaK> I don't think the channel should be split, if a tech disscussion is going on, the offtopic talk stops <popey> +1 GazzaK <LoudMouthMan> we cant popey since grep doesnt support BIGINT <popey> you calling me fat!? <popey> :) <moogman> It may be worth appending to the title, regarding support being placed better in #ubuntu <GazzaK> it used to be? <popey> moogman: it did used to be <popey> but the topic gets busy <popey> and nobody reads it <leftcase> true <LoudMouthMan> phwwwt I do . <LoudMouthMan> yep im nobody <popey> i have experience of this kind of split <popey> we split #hants lug channel into #hants and #hants-chat <popey> #hants-chat died <Daviey> popey: but to be fair#hantslug is dead most of the time anyway <popey> mainly because the offtopic stuff carried on in #hants <popey> Daviey: it wasnt back then <popey> its only dead now because about 12 people left at the same time <LoudMouthMan> I feel it would cause more contention to create the new opportunity to berate people for being possibly offtopic. <popey> indeed <popey> we would be constantly telling people to go away <GazzaK> agreed LoudMouthMan <popey> go to #ubuntu for support, go to #ubuntu-uk-offtopic for chat <popey> etc <LoudMouthMan> currenly all we can worry about is me saying something contentious. <Daviey> I'd like to tell people to go away more often.. :D <leftcase> For what it's worth I think its a bad idea ;-) <popey> which isnt very welcoming <GazzaK> i'd be sent to exile <popey> so time for a vote? <cinex> offtopicness helps give the impression of a community I find <LoudMouthMan> okay I think we are agreed that its not agreed. <popey> "should we have an offtopic channel?" <cinex> friends being friendly etc <popey> cinex: +1 <popey> hmm <leftcase> no <LoudMouthMan> no , we shouldnt even have minority channels. <popey> cinex: +1.7 <sampbar> no <Overtone> no <GazzaK> no <spd106> no <LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] There will not be a offtopic channel for ubuntu-uk <MootBot> AGREED received: There will not be a offtopic channel for ubuntu-uk <sampbar> moving on? <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Meeting management and organisation - Nik BUtler <MootBot> New Topic: Meeting management and organisation - Nik BUtler <LoudMouthMan> Ive taken a back seat for the last few months . <leftcase> # <LoudMouthMan> mainly due to some comments and emails suggesting I was "taking over" * popey doesnt remember such mails <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: did you communicate that you were stepping back? <LoudMouthMan> however I dont feel it has been a benefit of the community to not run a coherent and "corporate" style meeting agenda and commentary <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: no . and yes. <popey> nice double negative <LoudMouthMan> grrrr. beer ... typing <LoudMouthMan> I like the structure of the meeting when they are organised and agenda;d and managed and reported. But does everyone else ? <LoudMouthMan> over to you guys ? <sampbar> yes... could be a bit more organised time etc. though <NativeAngels> arrrrrh <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: if you don't want to be in the hot seat all the time - maybe we should agree a chairman for the next meeting; who is responsible for agenda et al <LoudMouthMan> shall I ramp up the noise and organisation again and igore the critics ? <moogman> When does a future meeting get scheduled? <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: actually I dont mind ( others did) <popey> how about a leadership vote :) <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: unless they brring there concerns to the meeting i think we should ignore the concerns <sampbar> everybody puts forward if they dont mind chairing then we all vote <LoudMouthMan> Ive not mind the chairing or the orginisation others have felt it too coportate though <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: have they brought the concerns to the meeting? <LoudMouthMan> its worth noting that each year we may be expected to justify our Ubuntu-UK approval. so its easier to have good notes. <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: no they havent. but im not . uhm argumentative like that. * Daviey does like professional style meeting and logs <GazzaK> I feel nik, as long as he is happy doing it, does a wonderful job * leftcase is new to this - but this seems a pretty good way of doing things <Daviey> Previosuly i have felt that the meetings here run much smoother than many of those in #ubuntu-meeting <LoudMouthMan> I think we have a nicely spread out responsibility chart . however I would like to make sure when the Ubuntu-UK approval goes through the mill again we will be able to pull from our Wiki / meetings and projects our successes. <popey> GazzaK: you are one person though <popey> others may not think that, and the membership on the mailing list is over 200? <GazzaK> yeah, I see that popey, I am only one bloke <LoudMouthMan> okay well can I ask if its okay to go back to ramping up the noise level to try and uhm get things moving and done ? <leftcase> popey: The only thing is though - if people don't turn up to meetings to voice their opinions it's hard to poll their opinions <Daviey> popey: i think we should discuss poor meeting attendance as a seperate point <popey> leftcase: no it isn't <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: agreed I will table that to the end <popey> Daviey: er, i never suggested that as an item <leftcase> popey: formally I mean ;-) <popey> i suggested a leadership vote <popey> leftcase: no, it _isn't_ <leftcase> popey: suggest please ? <popey> irc is not the only medium <Daviey> popey: sorry i did presume.. <popey> launchpad for one! <popey> mailinglist <LoudMouthMan> popey: weve gone through this topic last few meetings ago. <popey> web form <popey> no we didn't <Daviey> LP has a vote option <LoudMouthMan> on the list and on the irc and even youve discussed it was hard to do. <popey> you ignored it and apologised to me after for overlooking it <LoudMouthMan> and then we brought it up again <popey> i do not recall that <LoudMouthMan> its in our meeting logs and in our mail list archives. <popey> what was the outcome? <LoudMouthMan> but this is not the topic. <popey> nice <LoudMouthMan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact <moogman> I only noticed there was a meeting today when I checked my ubuntu-uk mailing list. email about 15 mins prior. Did I miss any other message to say it was on? It would be nice if in the meeting minutes of this meeting, for a time to be set for the next one. Is this sane? <Daviey> moogman: i did email for the previous one; and suddenly this one jumped up on me. So i apologise for the late notification <leftcase> Is there a table of future scheduled meetings in the wiki (if this is possible) <moogman> Would it make sense to organise the next date at the end of this meeting? Or is it too far in the future to do such a thing? <Daviey> leftcase: we plan the next one at the end of this one <Daviey> Shall we go back to the agenda? <moogman> Daviey: My fault sorry ;-) <LoudMouthMan> leftcase: yes usually I prepped the next wiki page <leftcase> Oh, OK :-) <sampbar> is there a set time for this meeting to finish? <LoudMouthMan> right is there anything to agree here other than we want to keep the formal structure <LoudMouthMan> sampbar: usually Like to set a time on the discussion . <LoudMouthMan> but some get a bit upset that I suggest a time to discuss a topic . <LoudMouthMan> sometimes I dont even set a time ( e.g. this one ) <sampbar> ok lol <Daviey> Okay, I'm guessing we don't need a vote for this point as nobody had anything -ve to day <Daviey> *say <LoudMouthMan> anything to agree here , do we all like the formality ? <LoudMouthMan> sure . <popey> ! <leftcase> I for one like formality - I feel it brings a sense of structure to an organisation (one mans opinion...) <Daviey> leftcase: +1 <cinex> this is my first meeting and the structure seems good. <popey> i note for the record that we said at that meeting that the roles should be discussed, and that this would be discussed on the mailing list <popey> this has not happened <leftcase> cinex: same here <cinex> followable <LoudMouthMan> and I note for the record that it was on the mailling list and the wiki page ( CONTACT ) was posted . Popey would you like to be the leader ? <popey> the contact page was created, but it was not discussed <cinex> LoudMouthMan: if people think your elbows are in there face, they should use their newspaper more aggresivly <sampbar> sorry people but i have to go :( <popey> ttfn sampbar <leftcase> turrah sampbar <LoudMouthMan> popey , you more than anyone else here track the wiki, mailist and email if you felt it needed discussion you had an opportunity to raise it. <sampbar> i will check the logs tommorow :) and then annoy you all with my opinion :P byee <LoudMouthMan> cia sampbar <popey> right <popey> so you're not going to raise it? <Daviey> can we tag it on the end? <LoudMouthMan> I did raise it , i posted the questions about concerns on the list ( mail ) and on the wiki . <LoudMouthMan> agreed. moving on . now ive two things to remember. <LoudMouthMan> moving on . <LoudMouthMan> [ TOPIC ] Guadec / Lug Radio / Linux World Expo - NikButler <LoudMouthMan> There are a number of events, weve discussed LRL coming up . I think we can plan / discuss these before the event <Seeker`> morning <LoudMouthMan> however since we discussed the whole LRL thing it seems apropos to drop the topic in light of LRL ? <LoudMouthMan> hey Seeker` still loving the moot bot here. <Daviey> LRL will be a good dry run <Daviey> Hopefully we can learn what we can do different and discuss new ideas for other events <sampbar> im back :) patched sky through to my room so i can watch the west wing <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: indeed. <GazzaK> I can do LWE :-) <LoudMouthMan> sampbar: welcome back. <Daviey> Anybody have a point regarding this agenda item? <LoudMouthMan> GazzaK: excellent Id like to do a repeat performance of last year but this time see how we can support canonical . especially in the disk delivery era. <leftcase> sampbar: Educating myself with 'How we built Britain' :-P <sampbar> leftcase: lol <GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, I wanna try to offer myself a bit more for LWE <LoudMouthMan> GazzaK: I am NOT going for that on e. <GazzaK> leftcase, it's good innit <cinex> whats LWE ? <Daviey> I think we should chuck a wikipage together for these events (such as LRL) <Daviey> LinuxWorldExpo <LoudMouthMan> I think we can move on then since LRL seems a good point of contact. <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: check the projects page. <leftcase> Gazzak: Aye <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] speakers; Jono asked for them and nothing happened - NikButler <MootBot> New Topic: speakers; Jono asked for them and nothing happened - NikButler <Daviey> ducks? <LoudMouthMan> Jono posted this a while back and we didnt seem to settle on who we all felt happy about . <popey> speakers for what? <popey> events <LoudMouthMan> Jono wanted volunteers to handle speaking engagements for Ubuntu type events. he posted onthe list his requirements and todate only Mark Harrison volunteered and I nominated popey . <Daviey> Not that i have used it - but LP has an ability to vote. Maybe we should start using this more. <GazzaK> I'll second popey <leftcase> Was Mark Harrison not suitable then ? <LoudMouthMan> I think Mark was very suitable as a speaker <LoudMouthMan> as is popey . but not me <grin> <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: we'd all go deaf <leftcase> ;-) <LoudMouthMan> It would have been nice for Jono to have has some sort of response. <leftcase> What'd be wrong with nominating two - Popey and Mark Harrison <Daviey> Has there been a requirement for comunity speakers todate? <LoudMouthMan> leftcase: nothign I think lots of volunteers is good. <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: yes . <popey> we could nominate any number i guess? <LoudMouthMan> popey: indeed. * popey looks for the thread <leftcase> Well if we've only had Popey and Mark volunteer - perhaps thats the answer to our question :-P <LoudMouthMan> leftcase: indeed but no one commented back afterwards. mind you it was during the whole joke debcale. <leftcase> LoudMouthMan: Ah I see <Daviey> If Jono has rec'd the email - then the ball is his court really. I would have thought that any events requiring speakers would go through Jono first <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: they will but I havent responded directly with a list of names. <Daviey> Want events have there been that have asked for community speakers <cinex> what do you need volunteers for ? <leftcase> Why not reply to Jono with the formal considered response as decided by the group <popey> LoudMouthMan: whats the thread? was it on ubuntu-uk? <popey> if so I will reply <andy101> link: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2007-April/004018.html <Daviey> popey: it was, i remember reading it <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: none specific to date, cinex speaking , popey . uhm go back a couple of months , I guess <popey> got it <LoudMouthMan> andy101: star <cinex> speaking is hard <popey> ahh it was sent to the loco contacts? <popey> and you forwarded to ubuntu-uk <Overtone> Why can't Jono ask for volunteers dynamically? I.e., when a requirement comes up he asks for someone appropriate? <LoudMouthMan> inded. so its Mark and Pete in on the topic I do remember talking about this in here as well. <LoudMouthMan> Overtone: i dunno . <popey> yeah, me too <leftcase> Overtone: I wonder if it's so he has time to suss out the volunteers in advance - that way he's got a 'database' of people <Overtone> Seems t me it depends on the topic of the talk, venue, timing etc? <Overtone> To avoid getting a duffer? <popey> to be honest one reason I didn't reply was because mark did <LoudMouthMan> Okay well can I forward the two mai llist volunteers plus Popey ? <Daviey> Shall we just give jono a nudge and find out what is happening? <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: ill just let him know I guess. <LoudMouthMan> the guys been busy doing more air miles than tony blair. <Daviey> Action? <popey> yes, put me forward if you like <LoudMouthMan> i think thats the action . <LoudMouthMan> [ACTION] Nik to email jono with Pete, Mark and Popey details. <MootBot> ACTION received: Nik to email jono with Pete, Mark and Popey details. <LoudMouthMan> next topic then ? <Daviey> Which pete is that btw? <LoudMouthMan> peter ryeland. <Daviey> ta <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC ] Competition ; Matt asked for entries and nothing seemed to happen - Nik Butler <LoudMouthMan> this is pretty much as before . <Daviey> What competition? <leftcase> Competition? <popey> heh <GazzaK> I never heard of a comp <popey> photo of you and mates doing the ubuntu logo? <popey> like we did at lwe last year <Daviey> ahhh the fridge one <cinex> oops <cinex> which competition ? <LoudMouthMan> Id like to be critical but I realise everything as open and volunteer based but I would like to find more ways other than throwing popeyinto the mix for us to all be responsive in contributing. <Daviey> I had a sure winner; but cba <LoudMouthMan> my attempts fell flat by the way . <leftcase> Sorry - I haven't a clue what you're all on about :-P <GazzaK> yeah, we cannot just use popey for everything <Daviey> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/872 <MootBot> LINK received: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/872 <cinex> we could make paper mache masks for him! <popey> ta Daviey <GazzaK> I'll throw myself in for helping with stuff, but I've not got the personality for it <Daviey> Can we (ab)use popey more? <LoudMouthMan> the thing is . and I need to be clear about this . <popey> closing date was 19th may :( <Daviey> bah.. cudda won that <leftcase> I found a group of young ladies recreating the ubuntu logo but got in trouble last time I posted it here.... :-S <LoudMouthMan> POPEY is the ideal and the epitomy of good delivery and involvement in the Ubuntu community <popey> pfffft <popey> stoppit <LoudMouthMan> however getting to his level and staying at it can for many be daunting or intimidating <Daviey> popey has blushed and/or wet himself <LoudMouthMan> some have even commnted . ahh popey will do it . <popey> they have!? <popey> blimey <LoudMouthMan> they have . <popey> people really have high expectations of me <Daviey> have they? <sampbar> Daviey: i think he wet himself <cinex> the bar was set high? <popey> heh, maybe you havent <popey> but you have met me :) <frederific> popey: and you meet them, consistently <LoudMouthMan> anyone doubt my sincerity or comments ? <Daviey> nope <popey> no, i appreciate them LoudMouthMan <popey> i dont take compliments well tho <popey> thank you <popey> i think <Daviey> "popey is my hero" <-- you can quote that <Daviey> :) <popey> aaaaanyway, moving on <GazzaK> popey for president \o/ <LoudMouthMan> yes but how do we let everyone be them without trying to be popey ? it can be intimidating <cinex> oh dear <cinex> popemania <Daviey> popey on a rope <popey> back on topic? <Daviey> sure <LoudMouthMan> but thats my topic , I want more people to be able to be as involved and contributing without feeling that its compettive within the group. <Daviey> Topic - poor turnout on competition? <popey> ahh <popey> ok <LoudMouthMan> yeah .. topic . i wrote that one up wrong ! sorry <cinex> sheep <cinex> get sheep and a sheep dog <cinex> to make the kubuntu logo * Daviey is confused on what the topic is... <LoudMouthMan> sorry I will restate <popey> "do people not get involved because they are intimidated"? <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] How do we get people more involved ( like Popey ) without feeling they have to compete [sic] <MootBot> New Topic: How do we get people more involved ( like Popey ) without feeling they have to compete [sic] <popey> or is it just that they cant be arsed? <leftcase> Part of it is what are people to get involved in? <cinex> perhaps they are just shy (like GazzaK) <leftcase> Where do peoples skills lie? <andy101> maybe they are unsure what they could do to "get involved" <popey> maybe they dont think they have skills <LoudMouthMan> I think of all the community those here are the "most" vocal . <andy101> or worried of looking like a prat <cinex> andy101: that counts as shy, no ? <Webspot> I'm going to start getting involved as soon as my exams are over. I feel that it's not competing, and am looking forward to contributing. <Daviey> I think any interest that is not main stream automatically attracts competion - especially 'geeky' interests <GazzaK> my skills are all "back office" style skills, helping, assisting, setting things up etc <GazzaK> I am not a talker, or a presenter, but I'd love to help with the other stuff <Daviey> GazzaK: and flat pack furniture assembly <leftcase> Well, it's like this here for instance https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LinuxAndOSSResearchAndAdvocacy it doesn't require technical skill, but is it useful? (I set it up btw lol so don't worry about being honest) <welp> GazzaK, you can be the slave ^_- <GazzaK> Daviey, I paid someone to build that :p <popey> maybe we should build a big list of "how to contribute?" <leftcase> popey: Good idea <LoudMouthMan> a sort of .. this needs doing next ? <cinex> goals... <Daviey> Trouble is, everybody disagrees on what is the 'best' way of promoting ubuntu. So it's gonna struggle to get anywhere. <LoudMouthMan> then JFDI and argue later. <popey> :) <GazzaK> +1 llm <cinex> trial and error LoudMouthMan ? <LoudMouthMan> cinex: the best of all developments. <LoudMouthMan> hehe <Daviey> So were agreed that we need to make contribution easyier... <Daviey> Should ideas pass the meeting first or just do it? <GazzaK> 1 year ago, I'd not heard of ubuntu, and neither had anyone I knew, now I obviously do, and all I know do too, and a lot of them use it, so even I can make it's use propogate <LoudMouthMan> right so I would like to recommend that we give some thought before LRL about how we can get the already 300+members of the mailing list and the unknown readers of the wiki involved and doing before LWE <popey> well <popey> there is a problem <Daviey> !suspence <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about suspence - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi <popey> there is a significant number of people who will not contribute <popey> will not want to <popey> are "takers" <cinex> I cant even perswade my mates 13 year old kid to try ubuntu <popey> which is fine, this happens in all communities <Daviey> How is that a problem? <popey> so be careful when mentioning numbers of people on the list <Daviey> ah <popey> "we have 300 people, we should have more contributors" * Daviey is dual subscribed aswell :) <popey> exactly <LoudMouthMan> indeed but all I am asking is can we give some thoughts as to what "we" can do to make it easier/quicker/less competitive to join in. <popey> but also there are people like Caroline from the london school of puppetry who may never "contribute" <Daviey> a wiki how-to page? <oly-> i have missed most of this conversation, what you all on about contributing to exactly ? <popey> sure LoudMouthMan i appreciate that <LoudMouthMan> caroline ? aka ? ana ? <popey> oly-: scroll back <popey> London School Of Puppetry <popey> quite a new user <oly-> i came in half way through i think :p <Daviey> oly-: check the logs <cinex> I dont think its about being competitive to join in. its the whole 'what could I possibly do' factor <leftcase> Well, I think part of the advocacy and promotion stuff is supporting people like caroline. With a friendly mailing list etc it keeps people 'in ubuntu' as it where <oly-> okay, <ana> sorry working elsewhere let me catch up <popey> oly-: http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2007/06/03/%23ubuntu-uk.html <jlk> ask yourself "How yeast in a loaf of bread"? <LoudMouthMan> well I wont subscribe to posting a comment like we had on slugs but I do think we need to take account for where we are and check to make sure we dont become a clique or make it hard for new commers to join in. <popey> leftcase: thats supporting her, not getting her to contribute herself <popey> +1 LoudMouthMan <oly-> thxs popey <Daviey> Is everybody happy with just anybody represting ubuntu-uk, without passing their ideas passed a meeting? <LoudMouthMan> but how we do that needs some thought and a question to frame it with I guess which is why I started with the competiion and speakers. <leftcase> I think we definiately need a 'How can I contribute' page setting up on the wiki - THen prmoted it to the group <leftcase> viea mailing list <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: good question . one for debate at LRL I think and on the list. <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: agreed <ana> we need female ubuntu user groups ;-) <ana> or at least women friendly <popey> ana: there is one <LoudMouthMan> okay can I move on with an agreement that we need to consider where we are or something like that. <Daviey> but as a first step, we need a wikipage for potentioan-contributors <ana> or just non-techi friendly, who knows <leftcase> ana: Do you think it helps to segregate on gender? <ana> where popey ? <sampbar> ana: ubuntu-women <popey> ubuntu-women <Daviey> not really relevant atm. <LoudMouthMan> can we not head onto that TOPIC <grin> .. lets close thisone . <ana> hmmm <ana> i think i'm on it <leftcase> lol <ana> but when i said user group i was thinking of "presential" <Daviey> move on/ <Daviey> ? <ana> we need presential, face to face stuff <LoudMouthMan> right can someone word this end of topic better than me for what the action is ? <LoudMouthMan> im thinking <ana> i got into this ubuntu madness through friends who talked to me face to face ;-) <Daviey> Just action a "wikilink" <cinex> everybody go to some remote location and stand on a corner promoting ubuntu would be a start - or have a '#team building activity' like rock climbing <leftcase> Daviey: agreed <LoudMouthMan> We need to agree to give some thought prior to LRL07 as to how to include more people already wthin the community <ana> sorry whats lrl07? <popey> cinex: better to do it organised for example on software freedom day in september <popey> ana: lugradio live <Daviey> ana: lugradio live <LoudMouthMan> ana: Lug Radio Live 2007 <cinex> sure popey <popey> ana: http://lugradio.org/live/2007 <MooDoo> http://www.lugradio.org <MootBot> LINK received: http://www.lugradio.org <cinex> randomness isnt all bad though <MooDoo> missed the last bit. <LoudMouthMan> POpey I think you were volunteered to head up that project for Software Freedom day. <ana> hehe * popey stabs MooDoo for using www <popey> :) <popey> i did LoudMouthMan <Daviey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/HowCanIContribute <MooDoo> popey: was i wrong....no :p <LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] We need to agree to give some thought prior to LRL07 as to how to include more people already wthin the community <ana> brrr why do i have to keep telling the system that firefox is my preferred browser??? <MootBot> AGREED received: We need to agree to give some thought prior to LRL07 as to how to include more people already wthin the community <ana> i already told it yestarday ... <LoudMouthMan> right next topic . <LoudMouthMan> popey give me the topic headign for leadership votes ? <popey> eh? <Daviey> ana: it might be best to get some support from #ubuntu or wait until the end of meeting :) <Overtone> got to go. bye! <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: i added that (late) <LoudMouthMan> well we are into AOB <leftcase> byw Overtone <wally> Hello again popey. Your advice worked perfectly (although moving partitions about takes AGES). <cinex> people wearing T-shirts at LRL could help promote ubuntu right? and it would raise a few funds ? <ana> ah sorry <wally> Thanks a lot for your help <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Discuss a leadership vote - DaveWalker <MootBot> New Topic: Discuss a leadership vote - DaveWalker <cinex> get the 300 to go in a t-shirt <MooDoo> cinex: i'll be waering my ubuntu tshirt <Daviey> MooDoo: you scared people off <MooDoo> good <MooDoo> probably coz i'm using fedora not ubuntu at the moment :) <cinex> If I had T-shirt I'd wear it <LoudMouthMan> Dave/ popey do you want to fill in on this topic ? <Daviey> I retract that point <popey> hahah <Daviey> ? <LoudMouthMan> previous comments onthe meeting are in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MeetingNotes/20070320Meeting ( search term leadership ) <popey> so that's the end of the meet? <sampbar> MooDoo: bad cow.... you must use ubuntu! :P joke <LoudMouthMan> popey no . you wantedto talk about this ? <LoudMouthMan> or do you not ? <Daviey> popey: This is time set aside for a discussion on a vote. But your not using it? <popey> I didn't add the item Daviey <MooDoo> sampbar: only use ubuntu on my laptop [which i use the most] fedora is on my desktop <popey> i need to read that page <LoudMouthMan> do we need a "leader" or are we happy to keep going as current and discuss roles/reviews a the next LWE ? <Daviey> i did i know... but that's because it was clear that a discussion was required <popey> i don't expect everyone to wait for me <popey> I'll add it for the next one <popey> maybe we can talk about it at lrl? <Seeker`> not everyone will be at lrl <MooDoo> i don't think we need a leader <sampbar> agree.... better to talk now <cinex> what would a 'leader's' job be ? <Daviey> Importiant that most people can contribute... IRC might be better for a discssuion on that <popey> what do you mean MooDoo <popey> we have one! <popey> ok, next irc meet then <leftcase> If there is to be a leadership poll, a method of polling all members needs to be undertaken - <sampbar> who? is the leader? <MooDoo> do we? <popey> sampbar: LoudMouthMan <LoudMouthMan> we have a loco contact and then people looking after different roles. <Daviey> leftcase: launchpad has a vote option <popey> leader/contact <Seeker`> LoudMouthMan: is the "LOCO contact" <leftcase> Daviey: Ah <MooDoo> i don't think we need a leader as such, if people want to go ahead an do stuff for ubuntu then they should just do it. <cinex> a heirarchy ? <MooDoo> loco contact doesn't mean leader imho <Daviey> not a heirachy, but a point of contact more <cinex> k <LoudMouthMan> well it was agreed "Ubuntu-UK Team Leader' It was agreed that we would create a new Page on the wiki in which names roles and current people occupying those this page called UKTeam/Contact Contact and this will be published and discussed on the Forums and mail list as much as appropriate. " <leftcase> How do we as a group decide whether or not a leadership vote needs to be called? <LoudMouthMan> popey you were in that meeting so can I ask why it keeps coming up ? <cinex> LoudMouthMan: that would make things look organised is all! <Daviey> leftcase: a vote on weather we need a vote <Daviey> :) <leftcase> :-P <popey> LoudMouthMan: I did NOT add it to the agenda <Daviey> I did. <popey> i just said i would read that page, and we should talk about it at a later meeting <LoudMouthMan> popey do you have any concerns or issues with me as the current loco contact ? <popey> no, i have other concerns <LoudMouthMan> sure but im getting tired of feeling bullied on a topic . <leftcase> So is the question then - Do we, as a group want to hold an 'election' for a new leader ? <popey> which I do not want to talk about now because i am not prepared <sampbar> no time like the present <popey> feel free to talk about it then, but the concerns I have wont be voiced, so it will just come up again <MooDoo> i don't want a leader as such however a point of contact is fine which anyone can do to be honest. However i am fine with the current people doing what they do <popey> so what s the point <Daviey> popey: on the same premise that potential responses are not prepaired. So i would really like your concerns/arguments well documented before the next meeting to allow maximum discussion <LoudMouthMan> well the agenda is always open. <LoudMouthMan> Daviey can you remember the other topic ? im sorry I overwrite my edit. <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: i mean a paragraph rather than a 1 liner :) <Daviey> nope <LoudMouthMan> okay is there any other business. <Daviey> I would like a discussion on #ubuntu-uk swearing <LoudMouthMan> go ahad <Daviey> It was discussed to a heated level recently <MooDoo> Daviey: define swearing? <sampbar> !ohmy daviey <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ohmy daviey - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi <LoudMouthMan> [TOPIC] Swearing in Ubntu uk <MootBot> New Topic: Swearing in Ubntu uk <Daviey> And X3N wanted to clarify what was considered appropriate * leftcase thinks that common sense must prevail <Daviey> leftcase: you would think so, but we need it rattified <LoudMouthMan> Well Daviey and X3n have both discussed about issues on language in the channel . <Seeker`> leftcase: In this case, "common sense" doesn't apply like that <Seeker`> different people have different opinions on what is appropriate <cinex> pretend the headmaster is listening ? <LoudMouthMan> my personal view is discretion and benefit of the doubt . <leftcase> Seeker: Then someone will always be put out then won't they? <GazzaK> do we want to have a policy of warning then kicking on swearing? I do hope not <MooDoo> i don't mind any swearing, however if someone thought it innapropriate then i'd stop. <GazzaK> it has to be "best judgement" <sampbar> mmm.... i wouldnt mind talking about discrimination and political correctness as well <Seeker`> "best judgement" and "common sense" are the same thing? <MooDoo> sampbar: discrimination shouldn't be tolerated at all. We're all equal, well i'm better that you :) <LoudMouthMan> Id like to respond to people who repeatedly troll or make comments to incite. but one off or emotive responses need to be /ignored since its likely to inflame rather than resolve. <GazzaK> but sampbar thats well and good, but I see a lot of people go on about PC just as it seems to be in fashion to be PC at the mo <Seeker`> some people may consider that "crap" is offensive and shouldn't be used <Seeker`> whereas others may think it is fine <cinex> crap <cinex> oops <LoudMouthMan> STOP <cinex> wrong window <LoudMouthMan> lets not use examples <MooDoo> i would consider the f word and the C word a no no and all others ok <cinex> thatwas supposed to be in the dictionary <andy101> can we not use the abbreviation "PC" t mean Plotically Correct, it's confusing for those of use with a personal computer <LoudMouthMan> Daviey do you have a suggestion ? <LoudMouthMan> andy101: here here <Daviey> I'm split on it tbh <Daviey> but i wanted it discussed <GazzaK> andy101, are you saying I am being discriminatory to the Personal Computers now? <leftcase> Can one of the IRC bots not be programmed with a list of 'naughty' words - It could then give a warning... <MooDoo> andy101: i think we can all tell what PC means when used in the correct tense <leftcase> At least then it wouldn't be a real person so hence no argument... <LoudMouthMan> then can I suggest if 3 or more ops agree of channel that a individual is using language continually in appropriate that we contact the person off channel and ask them to stop that comment. <Seeker`> leftcase: But what words are considered inappropriate? what about context? <Daviey> i think i would either end ub /igoreing the bot or kicking+banning it tbh <LoudMouthMan> it doesnt have to be 3 at the same time <MooDoo> i think if people keep getting warned and banned for using the wrong words, they would not come back, i wouldn't for sure. <GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, but that would take ages, ahh, read you last bit, yeah, makes sense <leftcase> Hmmm it's a tricky situation. <LoudMouthMan> its tricky but weve overloaded the irc channel with ops to help this <MooDoo> i'm sorry guys but this seems to be turning into a "you do what we say or get kicked/banned" channel....just what i think <GazzaK> thats a point, sampbar was asking about irc ops <LoudMouthMan> we have gazzak/seeker/daviet/popey/loudmouthman to name a few. thats a 1 in 10 <GazzaK> MooDoo, I don't (well I hope it wont) <Daviey> But is an op empowered to kick on a single 'bad' word. What is a 'bad' word <Daviey> I think this discussion has really come about as somebody didn't like being publically told to !ohmy <GazzaK> Daviey, empowered as in able to? <LoudMouthMan> MooDoo: well thats why I think it needs three to agree . <LoudMouthMan> and I dont think 1 word is enough it needs to be trolling the word. <Daviey> LoudMouthMan: daviet eh? That's my sister <MooDoo> agreed <leftcase> I'd really like to think that anyone who has been made an Op, would have to common sense to deal with a situation properly and sensibly <GazzaK> has anyone ever been kicked/banned/muted here (in serious use) <LoudMouthMan> just popey . <LoudMouthMan> and you did that GazzaK <Seeker`> GazzaK: Not that I have seen <LoudMouthMan> so it didnt count <GazzaK> LoudMouthMan, in serious use <sampbar> sorry people but i have to go again <sampbar> byee <GazzaK> bye sampbar <MooDoo> o/ <Daviey> There was one guy who was trying to see how long it would take him to get kicked <GazzaK> Daviey, who? <GazzaK> wasn't me was it? <Daviey> GazzaK: right before you got your opers <GazzaK> ahhh, yeah the only troll we have had <Daviey> As that was what brought the discussion on that up <GazzaK> afaik <LoudMouthMan> okay well is there an agreed or action to this / <Daviey> So are we agreeing on a list of 'banned' words or still stick with discretion/arguments? <leftcase> discretion IMHO <popey> i think we are fine as we are <LoudMouthMan> I like discretion <GazzaK> I vote stick with it as is <LoudMouthMan> e.g. as we are. <popey> how about we ask the ubuntu ops what they do <MooDoo> i'm sorry chaps i'm certainly not changing the way i swear [not that i do anyway] <Daviey> I like discretion but somebody was serioudly unhappy with 'discrection' * LoudMouthMan refains. <popey> MooDoo: why? <jlk> Challenge bad language. I would in a face2face situation. Why not on IRC? <popey> is that not a bit rude? <LoudMouthMan> jlk: because context is lost in text. <GazzaK> popey, I vote all opers here should hang out in #ubuntu-ops too, no need to say anything, just see what they do <cinex> iv e seen people swear and not swear after being warned. <Daviey> GazzaK: they spend all day taking the micky <GazzaK> Daviey, sometimes they are serious :p <LoudMouthMan> right it seems fairly well balanced to agree to leave it to op discretion. but review of policy with ubuntu ops wouldbe smart. <Daviey> +1 <cinex> leave it to op discretion to determin the severity. but keep a no swearing policy <LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] leave it to op discretion. but review of policy with ubuntu ops would be smart. <MootBot> AGREED received: leave it to op discretion. but review of policy with ubuntu ops would be smart. <Daviey> Are we done kiddies? <GazzaK> hope so <MooDoo> popey: can't answer that right now without getting frustrated at myself for not being able to answer it sensibly....too tired. [yeah just a cop out] <LoudMouthMan> and with that I would like to close this meeting with confirmation that the nextmeeting will be at Lugradio live ? <Daviey> wait! <GazzaK> recorded? <LoudMouthMan> waiting <Daviey> good <Daviey> Agreed on next meeting being LRL? <MooDoo> Daviey: see thats also what i don't agree with: i know you're only kidding, but just coz we don't agree doesn't make us kiddies. <LoudMouthMan> i dont think we can adress all the issues but 4 weeks fromnow is lrl ish * MooDoo is in a bad mood....sorry <andy101> not everyone will be at lrl <moogman> Can we create a minutenotes wiki page ready, and post a message on the mailing list, regarding time? <leftcase> andy101: True <Daviey> hmm <popey> andy101: so, not everyone is here? <LoudMouthMan> moogman: I usually do <popey> its no different <Daviey> I don't fancy trascribing on the fly at LRL's meeting <moogman> Thanks LoudMouthMan <LoudMouthMan> Daviey: indeed. <popey> i will record it on my mp3 player <leftcase> popey: LRL creates a barrier to joining the meeting - IRC is easy <popey> so what do you propose <andy101> popey: It's easier to join IRC than go to lrl, IRC is free for a start! <LoudMouthMan> leftcase: true . we can split the content though . some stuff pre/post lrl surely ? <Daviey> I think that points for the next meeting will have to be passed via proxy then.. <popey> we dont talk to eachother at lrl? <MooDoo> i'll bring my vista laptop for speech recognition if you all promise not to shout fdisk c: :) <popey> :( MooDoo <leftcase> LoudMouthMan: I think it'd be great to have something after LRL to ensure all agree with what has been done at LRL <LoudMouthMan> Ill post a quesrtoin on the list tommorow and detail what will be planned eh ? <LoudMouthMan> leftcase: good idea <MooDoo> popey: i'll break her down soon enough. <LoudMouthMan> any objections ? <Daviey> hang on <popey> heh <Daviey> that means the LRL meeting will all be proviosnaly <Daviey> provisional <Daviey> So it'll be all chat no-trousers <Daviey> So we might aswell just make it a irc meeting in the first place <popey> i see no reason not to have a meeting at lrl <LoudMouthMan> Id like to keep it all IRC if we can . <MooDoo> popey: i don't think lrl is the right place for a meeting unless it's on IRC <LoudMouthMan> and use LRL for the bof and the planning. <leftcase> Daviey: I imagine the hardcore will be there - I shouldn't think anything would be 'overturned' afterwards - it's just to show consideration to all members <GazzaK> have a meeting, it'll be fun, and those not present, me included, can catch up later <MooDoo> are we still doing the Moocast at LRL? <MooDoo> sorry if it's already been discussed <frederific> moocast? <popey> ok, what if the audio discussion was streamed online? <Daviey> 'hardcore' is ireleavnt. Each has as much power as another <leftcase> GazzaK: Agreed - just keep everyone else in the loop afterwards is all - with discussion. <popey> and the rest of us were on irc? <Daviey> popey: technical nightmare <Daviey> canonical did a fine hash of it at UDS <MooDoo> frederific: ubuntu-uk podcast <leftcase> Daviey: Poor choice of words on my part <frederific> ah <popey> Daviey: oh come on, that was massive <leftcase> Noone fancies transcribing on IRC then :-P <popey> there are plenty of online services to do this <MooDoo> o/ i'm off, speak to you all soon. <popey> ttfn <leftcase> cya <popey> I will look into it if you like? <Daviey> popey: not the size, the voice quality <Daviey> it was a waste of time *fact* <cinex> skype ? <LoudMouthMan> okay shall we put it to the vote. ? <leftcase> cinex: skype works well - even through firewalls etc ... it's not a bad idea <popey> Daviey: there were people all over the room <popey> and they didn't speak up <cinex> ive never used skype. but I hear its good <popey> cinex: it is not <cinex> scatter the mics round the room <popey> mics! :) <popey> optimistic <moogman> I'd prefer ekiga/sip over skype <popey> i will look into it <cinex> or get some funky clip on ones like on the telly <spd106> skype is a virus <leftcase> cinex: I had to find a VoIP think for a web meeting for work... Skype was all I could find that'd go through the firewall <leftcase> 80 , 443 <LoudMouthMan> well its 10 mins since I asked to close the meeting are we agreed to have a meeting or not ? <moogman> Considering ekiga is installed with Ubuntu by default, and SIP works fine through firewalls too <cinex> you could make them from cheap mics and keep them for further use <popey> LoudMouthMan: how about we look into feasibility of doing audio from lrl? <leftcase> moogman: with only 80 and 443 open ? <andy101> moogman: didn't work through my NAT (peer unfriendly) <popey> we could test here <cinex> leftcase: I know nothing but dont voip services go straight from the router? <LoudMouthMan> popey: sure . I wanted to be able to do that anyway ( see earlier ) <cinex> vonage <popey> I would record myself and you lot could listen in <moogman> leftcase: No, unfortunately. Ports 5060 + RTP, so if you're firewalled egress it wont work. <Daviey> moogman: not always fine. STUN is hit and miss <andy101> ekiga should pass inbound filtering if you turn on STUN <moogman> andy101: peer-to-peer will be a problem if you are both NAT'd.. If you've both got (e.g.) ekiga accounts, it *should* work ok. <LoudMouthMan> right were well off topic <leftcase> cinex: all i meant mate - was that it was the only one that'd work at my place of work where only port 443 and 80 is open (as you'll find at a lot of workplaces, internet cafes etc) that's why I use skype if I don't know what connection I've got out to the web <LoudMouthMan> I think we cant seem to agree on this. * popey nods <ompaul> popey, get jono to do the remix - death metal version of the question, "what do you think about moving to a kernel.org kernel" <popey> :) <cinex> oh ok leftcase <cinex> leftcase: I'm still thinking of the setup at the actual meet, not people 'tappingin ' <leftcase> cinex: all i meant was that I wondered if the venue of LRL would be firewalled? <LoudMouthMan> leftcase: I agree . <cinex> dunno leftcase <popey> leftcase: i am on the crew list for LRL, so I can find that out <leftcase> If you prepare for the worst, you'll never be dissapointed :-P <cinex> they would try to keep the hackers/crackers in ? <LoudMouthMan> are we going to close this meeting with no agreement on the future meeting date then ? <leftcase> So, are we agreed that perhaps some audio out might happen then dependent on technology? <Daviey> Don't forget we not guaranteed net access @ venue <Daviey> so we'll need to research it further <leftcase> LoudMouthMan: LRL followed by catch up later? <cinex> can we be real naughty and wardrive ? <leftcase> lol <Daviey> Hmm.... i propose a proper meeting at LRL and any points for discussion are brought up via proxy person <cinex> a pub or cafe might accomade it <cinex> accomodate <Daviey> and the results of that meeting are final, unless brrought up at the next meeting for review <LoudMouthMan> that will require me to be informed of the proxies should I chair it then ? <LoudMouthMan> to save chad proxies<grin> <popey> 21:14:40 < Daviey> Don't forget we not guaranteed net access @ venue <leftcase> The meeting would need to be transcribed or recorded though? <popey> I have just been offering to try to sort this <popey> hey ho <leftcase> popey: that sounds good <cinex> find a pub with net access... liquer always helps <moogman> Could we say 2007-07-07/2007-07-08 (when LRL is on) on IRC, and if audio comes about, then that's a bonus? <leftcase> moogman: agreed subject to net access <LoudMouthMan> 20 mins past the request do I have a consensus here ? <andy101> +1 moogman <popey> +1 moogman <Webspot> +1 <leftcase> +1 moogman <spd106> +1 <leftcase> btw - i don't know the protocol of these irc meetings - was i supposed to say present or something :-P <Daviey> leftcase: yes <leftcase> erm PRESENT !! <LoudMouthMan> lets do that then<grin> <Webspot> PRESENT for me too! I came in half way through <Daviey> guys, won't work un less you just typed "present" <LoudMouthMan> [AGREED] Next Meeting 2007-07-07/2007-07-08 (when LRL is on) During BOF on IRC, and if audio comes about, then that's a bonus? <MootBot> AGREED received: Next Meeting 2007-07-07/2007-07-08 (when LRL is on) During BOF on IRC, and if audio comes about, then that's a bonus? <leftcase> "present" <leftcase> or <andy101> present <leftcase> present <popey> heh <Daviey> better late than never eh? <leftcase> lol <Daviey> I'm not sure i'm geeky 'nuff to be sat next to other people and talk to them through IRC <Daviey> i'm done with that crazyness <popey> heh <popey> you did it on saturday <LoudMouthMan> right in that case <LoudMouthMan> #endmeeting <MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:21.