We reviewed the FAQ located at the landpage and suggested some improvements:
- New questions:
- How can I locate the application used for testing?
- What type of systems can be submitted?
- How do I get involved?
- When is it going to be ready?
- Move it to its own page
- Add a TOC to the landing page
ACTION: ara to update the FAQ and send it to akgraner for review
During the FAQ topic we discussed whether to accept or not anonymous submissions. For 11.10 we are going to accept anonymous submission, although we might change it in future releases depending on results.
Ubuntu Release Parties
We want to promote Ubuntu Friendly during the Ubuntu Release Parties and Ubuntu Global Jam.
- czajkowski is able to promote UF for the Ubuntu Global Jam, once we have materials for it.
- ara and akgraner will work together to have the materials ready for the release
ACTION: ara to talk to jorge to book a slot for UDS
<ara> Welcome to the UF meeting! As usual, please, raise your hand (o/) if you want to talk and write ".." when done.
<ara> seems like the agenda looks like this morning
<ara> remember that you guys can add topics at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Meetings
<ara> [AGENDA] FAQ: Ubuntu Friendly is not a certification programme -- ara
<ara> Ubuntu Release Parties -- ara
<ara> [TOPIC] FAQ: Ubuntu Friendly is not a certification programme -- ara
FAQ: Ubuntu Friendly is not a certification programme -- ara
<ara> I have been blogging about UF for a while and I keep getting the same questions and misconceptions over and over again. One of the most common ones is thinking that UF is a certification programme and will substitute the current one.
<ara> To try to explain it a bit better, I created an FAQ that is now available at:
<ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly#FAQ
<ara> What other questions you guys think should be there? what things people usually ask about the programme that can be a candidate?
<ara> akgraner, go ahead!
<akgraner> My questions are really about what should be there...I guess my thoughts without being a developer is that this is being over thought maybe - don't anyone yell at me yet..
<akgraner> I mean we have all these test programs out there - I mean I just learned about system tests that is available on every Ubuntu Machine at UDS
<akgraner> and as you mention in the FAQ the is not hardware cert..
<akgraner> but it seems like you could take pieces of what is already there and just modify it..
<ara> actually we are going to reuse System Testing
<akgraner> I guess I missed that part - sorry
<akgraner> see what happens when you don't speak developer
<ara> akgraner, good point, FAQ: Checkbox = System Testing
<akgraner> ok then never mind that makes sense to me..that was the piece I was missing
<ara> perfect, thanks
akgraner is quiet now
<ara> [ACTION] ara to update the faq to explain the checkbox name / system testing thing
ara to update the faq to explain the checkbox name / system testing thing
<ara> hggdh, your turn, sir
<hggdh> on the 'friendly is not certified' thingy: Why not, add with a bit of highlight, a def from the Oxford dictionary?
<hggdh> like "[in combination] denoting something that is adapted for or is not harmful to a specified thing:an environment-friendly agronomic practice"
<hggdh> we are not going to win, all we can do is explain
<ara> victorp, you go
<victorp> what systems can be submitted
<victorp> arm devices?
<victorp> I just saw a vending machine running ubuntu
<ara> victorp, good point
<ara> we will modify it to narrow the focus to desktop/laptops/netbooks for this release
<ara> victorp, you go (you want to have a coca-cola vending machine UF)
<victorp> I forgot to say , "how do I get involve"
<hggdh> FAQ entry (using victorp's Q): What are we testing now?
<ara> yes, I guess that was what victorp was saying
<akgraner> +1 - because I didn't know you were using system testing or I would have been installing ubuntu and doing that if I thought it would help..
victorp wonders how to keep the FAQ not too technical
<cr3> victorp: suggestion: don't make me write it
<akgraner> I can help with that...I can read and tell you what I don't understand...
victorp +1 to both
<bladernr> I'd also suggest moving the FAQ to it's own page, rather than where it sits now...
<cr3> "we use a snowflake schema to generate hypercube slices of test results"
<ara> mmm, if it is on the first page is more likely to be read
<ara> or not?
<bladernr> true, but if it keeps growing, the landing page will become too big and be skipped over...
<bladernr> just a thought
<cr3> ara: I like when something is so obvious that it doesn't need a faq
<victorp> ara, bladernr you could put 2-3 FAQs and then "for more FAQ click here"
<bladernr> victorp: +1
<ara> Anything else on the topic? other suggestions?
<akgraner> I think once you tell people this is how you can see if your system is Ubuntu Friendly - once people (read regular end users) know How to see or test their system - or find which ones have been tested - it won't matter where it is..as people will be talking about it and as news spreads users will get the information
<czajkowski> IS there a way to add a a TOC to the page so we can narrow down what is there
<czajkowski> landing page is the best imo, but a way to navigate it and spread it out to be read might be wise
<ara> czajkowski, there is a way, I'll add it
ara notes all the changes she'll need to do
<czajkowski> ara: Thank you
<ara> [ACTION] ara to modify the FAQ based on suggestions and send email to akgraner for review
ara to modify the FAQ based on suggestions and send email to akgraner for review
<ara> Anything else?
<victorp> maybe what is obvious is "When?"
<cr3> ara: "anything else" on the topic or in general?
<ara> victorp, when what?
<victorp> i.e. when will this thing be live!
<ara> (cr3, on this topic)
<ara> victorp, very true noted
<ara> Moving on?
ara waits 10 seconds
<akgraner> o/ ?
<ara> akgraner, go ahead
<akgraner> Can users use system test now to become familiar with the program?
<akgraner> I mean how different will it be?
<akgraner> (sorry if that's too simple of a question)
<ara> it will be very very similar
<ara> at this point, the Oneiric version looks pretty much the same as the final one
<ara> the only thing that it will change are the tests that are selected by default
<akgraner> Can people downlaod system test to a USB stick to take to LOCO release parties, best buy, walmart etc
<akgraner> to test all the computers they come in contact with?
<akgraner> sorta like the kernel did in 2009-2010?
<ara> akgraner, it will be in the Live CD, so using the Live Cd will be enough
<akgraner> ara gotcha
<cr3> akgraner: it's already on the live cd, but there's no real good story about creating those tests offline and then sharing them later
<ara> akgraner, it takes a while to test everything, so we are targeting current Ubuntu users as testers
<ara> Any other questions (that can be then moved to a FAQ)?
<cr3> how can I tell what's wrong with my computer?
<akgraner> Do you need to have an LP account to test your system?
<cr3> akgraner: no, anonymous submissions are still accepted
<ara> cr3, akgraner: cool, noted
<cr3> akgraner: I'm not a big fan of that, but it certainly lowers the barrier to entry
<victorp> akgraner, that is a good question
<ara> victorp, yep
<victorp> I am not sure what to do with anonymous
<victorp> I am not sure if they should count less towards stars
<victorp> or if they count at all
<victorp> what does people think?
<victorp> the reason of the question is
<victorp> that it seems less reliable if there isn't a name against it so it seems like the league table can be gamed
<cr3> victorp: system instances are recorded individually, so someone would need lots of individual systems to try and game the programme
<victorp> go ara
<victorp> cr3 - like an OEM
<akgraner> Ok so this is why I like the anonymous option - b/c I use it the first time I try something usually. I mean if I screw something up or until I understand how to work something I'd rather not have people see where I am totally missing it..(well not publicly anyway)
<cr3> victorp: you can submit results for your own systems a million times, it would count as a million entries
<ara> I wouldn't like to accept anonymous submissions. In almost every rating system (amazon, i.e) you are required to have an account
<ara> brendand, go ahead
<victorp> akgraner, that sounds like you want a sandbox to play rather than anonymous submission
<brendand> i hate the idea of anonymous submissions. you need to have a lp account to work with bugs, so why not the uf program?
<akgraner> it does doesn't...:-)
hggdh cannot understand why anonymous is considered to be harmful
<brendand> i can understand the argument for it, lowering the barrier of entry, but i think it's opening up a can of worms
<akgraner> doesn't it even...I guess that's just me - since I want to help and I want to let other people know how they can help - I need to play with the application etc...
<cr3> brendand: precedent like lp bugs doesn't necessarily imply it's a good or bad thing, we should consider anonymous submissions out of their own merit (or dismerit
<ara> akgraner, would a sandbox mode work for you?
<victorp> o/ reply hggdh
<akgraner> Well now that I know it's system test - I know what to do now
<ara> victorp, go ahead
<victorp> hggdh, the point is that you are publicly making an statement
<victorp> you are less likely to make a false one
<victorp> if your reputation is at stake
<hggdh> not really, but this is a long discussion
<cr3> if we're identifying systems individually, there might be less need to identify the corresponding users
ara thinks that this topic should be a separate one, maybe for next meeting
<victorp> but if you can do it anonymous I could just do whatever
<ara> bladernr, go ahead
<victorp> ara - ol
<bladernr> victorp: one counterpoint, it's not uncommon for large companies to pay people to create fake accounts to promote their wares or write bogus reviews
<bladernr> though I do agree with victorp against anonymous submissions.
<victorp> bladernr, true
<victorp> maybe we are worring about nothing
bladernr imagines Chinese gold farmers switching over to ubuntu submitters
<cr3> bladernr: so OEMs could still game the system even if we don't allow anonymous submissions
<victorp> ara - I suggest to review once uf is live
<victorp> see if it becomes an issue or not
<ara> Sounds like a plan
<akgraner> why can't the output be like you see on the back or routers and other things with the check marks for what works and what doesn't - so that people don't see all the test results only that a particular make model works with certain core components or not...
<cr3> I suspect people who are likely to submit anonymously are likely to skip most, if not all, tests. so, that'll just be void anyways
<ara> akgraner, the output of?
<akgraner> the test results...
<akgraner> I couldn't open the links to the test results for some reason this weekend
<cr3> akgraner: IP changed: http://188.8.131.52/
<ara> OK, let's move on, if not, the meeting will last 10 hours
<ara> akgraner, any other questions, please, send them to the mailing list, we all be happy to help
<ara> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Release Parties -- ara
Ubuntu Release Parties -- ara
<ara> As you guys now, when Ubuntu gets released, LoCos and users organize release parties around the globe. At those parties people like testing the new stuff in Ubuntu and there are also presentations of the new projects. This could be a good opportunity for people to know about UF and start submitting results.
<ara> There is some basic documentation on how to run a release party at:
<ara> So, I was thinking that we could prepare some documentation/material for people to use at those parties and talk to the organizers beforehand, so they present UF during the event. I am thinking of the following:
<ara> * Create a flyer/brochure on how to submit results to UF
<ara> * Create a slidedeck that organizers could use to give a talk on UF
<ara> * Talking to event organizers about it, so they use the material
<ara> What else do you guys think of? Who wants to pick the action items?
<ara> akgraner, go ahead
<akgraner> I can help you with this - and with Global Jam's coming up next month if there is a beta we could tell them to use it might be a good test run as well
<ara> czajkowski, go ahead
<czajkowski> ara: with regards to the release party stuff if you can let me know what you want sent to teams let me know and we have the council meeting this week and we can mention it, we also have a council blog, and can blog it there also
<ara> akgraner, thanks for the suggestion on the Global Jame, we expect to have a beta for that period
<ara> czajkowski, still a bit early, first we need to produce the materials
<ara> czajkowski, but I will let you know as soon as we have something, thanks!
<czajkowski> sure, well same goes for the UGJ stuff, we can add it to our agenda and council blog
<akgraner> I can work with whomever getting the talks ready etc - so it won't be too developerish but with a good does of the ends and outs so all levels of users understand the needs of the program
<akgraner> well if you want...
<ara> akgraner, sure!
<akgraner> ara agreed
<ara> Any other ideas on how to promote UF in events?
<ara> akgraner, go ahead
<akgraner> Can we talk to other *.ubuntu.com sites and get them to promote it via their slide decks once we have the materials
<akgraner> such as developer, cloud etc...
<ara> akgraner, victorp: sounds good
ara will talk to jcastro about giving a plenary at UDS before he runs out of slots
<ara> OK, moving on?
<ara> [TOPIC] Any Other Business?
Any Other Business?
<ara> cr3, please
<cr3> How cool would it be to show "similar systems", so that people can look at other systems similar to their that might have different rankings?
<ara> cr3, how would you measure how similar they are?
<cr3> ara: by their set of components, where some category of components would weigh more than others
<cr3> it's something I've done already, but might be good for post oneiric though: http://cr3bits.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/incremental-collaborative-filtering-in-sql/
<victorp> would be cool - even cooler will be to list anything at all
<cr3> victorp: we can list systems
<cr3> it's just an idea though, just throwing it out there for people to think about
<ara> cr3, victorp: once we pass beta and start preparing uds, we can create a wiki page for people to drop possible ideas
<cr3> ara: cool, thanks
<ara> cr3, thanks
<ara> Anything else?
<ara> going once
<ara> going twice
Meeting closed at 16:00
- ara to update the faq to explain the checkbox name / system testing thing
- ara to modify the FAQ based on suggestions and send email to akgraner for review