What would happen to the existing system of using right-click -> Properties -> Open With? Or the right-click 'Open with' menu? Three ways of doing the same thing might get confusing, would any method be removed? ---Philbull
My opinion is to keep them all, as if someone has been using GNOME for a while they won't get disappointed that their way of doing something has gone. That my opinion, but it might not be the best. ---MattMedland
Both Windows and Mac OS let you permanently change the program that opens a particular file from the Properties/Info window for that file. It would be odd if you couldn't in Ubuntu. -- MatthewPaulThomas
Yup, I was thinking about probably padding the spec out a bit, but I might as well ask what they think sooner rather than later. I'll contact them when I get home tonight. Thanks for the link. ---MattMedland
- Do you want to provide a long list of all mimetypes? I remember older GNOME 2.x versions provided such a dialog which was a mess. I think providing an easy way to set the default app for all audio files, all video files etc. would be a lot easier to use.
I'm thinking of maybe categorising the mime-types within the dialog, so we would have drop down arrows of a few categories and then all the configuration done under them. I'll try to make a mock-up tonight which should show what I have in mind. ---MattMedland
Remember that most people have no idea what "mime types" are, and nor should they. So at least include human-readable names of each filetype. -- MatthewPaulThomas
Maybe we would include the whole MIME type for the 'Other' category and just use the extensions and maybe human-readable namesin the specific categories. ---MattMedland
This specification should be moved out of the "MattMedland/" namespace (and the Launchpad registration updated). -- MatthewPaulThomas
I've moved it to being underneath Usability, would you say that's appropiate? ---MattMedland
I don't see any good points for mime types inclusion in preferring apps. In gnome mime is file and file is mime so central editor breaks this model. We should remove this spec and create new one that make easier for user to change application of one mime . First two use cases in this spec don't need central app and third one assumes that you know which mimes you can change -- MiikaLaaksonen
Preferred apps seems the logical place to go to to the app which you want to open when you open a type of file, and it would be the place a new user would go (I know I did) Maybe the use cases aren't the best, anyone who wants to have a crack at putting some better ones in feel welcome. ---MattMedland
Warbo: This is a similar comment to some above but takes it further, and it is basically this: I don't care what MIME type my files are, I don't care what specific applications are and I don't want to mess up the nice file organisation system I use (hopefully based on a relational database) by renaming all of my files to end in a full stop and a three character code (I know many people do this, but I think it is ugly). Of course personally I would love to use Ogg for all of my audio and video and use other unencumbered formats, but when bands offer their songs for download as MPEG then I am not going to convert it and lose quality, and why should I? Basically I think the proposed solution is backwards, as it is forcing users to understand the implementation in order for the computer to let them do the the thing they want, instead of understanding what they want and letting the computer work out the implementation. What I mean is that setting an application for MPEG audio, Ogg Vorbis, PDF, etc. is silly as these file formats are just different implementations of storing a type of data on a storage medium, and applications are just different implementations of letting users interact with data. Compare the proposed solution to a user saying "I want to open documents in Adobe Reader" or "I want to play music in XMMS" or "I want to edit spreadsheets in Gnumeric". The MIME types should be catagorised into something like: Music (Ogg Vorbis, MPEG audio, AAC, MIDI, Tracker, etc.), Video (Ogg Theora, MPEG, AVI, etc.), Documents (PDF, Open Document presentations and word processing documents, Microsoft Powerpoint documents, Microsoft Word documents, Abiword documents, etc.) then the user can choose a music player, a video player and a document viewer (the issue of Adobe Reader is important here though, since non-Free applications can't be relied on to support every particular way of storing the type of data they handle out there. Adobe want people to think "I will use Adobe Acrobat to open this PDF" rather than the (not only better, but also human default) way of thinking "I want to read this magazine"). Of course the main usability issue here would be an intuitive way of sorting out viewing compared to editing. Many people use computers for editing documents, but not many do that for music. Perhaps an "Edit" button should be placed in the toolbar (or whatever) of the viewers, which would then allow the user to edit the data. This would save the loading time and interface confusion of using a full-blown editor like Abiword to view a document compared to Evince . Of course, users shouldn't really have to understand what a "program" is, since this is just a bad way of thinking caused by proprietary corporations who's business model relies on users understanding what it is they actually sell (or rather, license), which is made evident by the ratio of "Where is Photoshop?" questions compared to "How do I edit an image?", and I only use the terms "Abiword" and "Evince" as descriptions of flavours of data interaction, and people will always want a way of choosing the flavours that they like (which is what this page should really be focusing on), just like I don't care if my music is MPEG, FLAC or MIDI, but I do care if it is classical, headbanging power metal or *shudder* rap. The only assumption being made should be that the user knows what they want to get done using the computer (which is, of course, a hard concept to grasp in this world where people rely on flashy bouncy adverts to tell them what they want rather than getting down to the important business of wobbling their windows), but designing and implementing a decent way for users to use computers to get their tasks done should be the goal of Free Software development, not copying Windows to make brainwashed users more comfortable. If they switch at all then some re-learning needs to be done, so why not at least make it learning of a useful interface? If you don't want people to go back to proprietary systems then the most reliable way is to point out how awful Windows's interface is, since these days I never use Windows and whilst I like to think to myself that it is because of Freedom, users' rights, etc. it actually comes down to the fact that Windows completely sucks at getting anything done and I (along with pretty much all of the computer-using world) want to stick my fist through the screen, whereas if I find something annoying in Ubuntu I file a bug or write a spec (a friend I gave an Ubuntu disc to said to the guy taking our Physics computer lab the next week "The worst thing about Linux is having to use Windows everywhere else"). Since Free Software isn't screwed up by companies trying to sell (and therefore make users aware of) every individual aspect of it's implementation we are in a much better position to create a usable interface along the lines of "I will finish my picture, put it in my story and send it to my friends" rather than "I will Photoshop this jpg, embed it in a .doc in Word then MSN it to my contacts". I know I know, I need to set up a blog rather than comment in Wikis...
Joe user wants to open ogg files in Totem but mpeg files in VLC and mov files in MPlayer. I know that its not ideal to have several applications do the same thing but we don't live in a perfect world. How'd you solve such issues? --AndreRuediger
Maybe we could have an 'Advanced' button somewhere in the dialog that then goes into that. ---MattMedland
Wow, that's a lot of reading :). Thanks for your input, and I agree with many of your points. The main point that I got from there is that it should just work, that users shouldn't need to know the inner workings. It really like what you say here: The MIME types should be catagorised into something like: Music (Ogg Vorbis, MPEG audio, AAC, MIDI, Tracker, etc.), Video (Ogg Theora, MPEG, AVI, etc.), Documents (PDF, Open Document presentations and word processing documents, Microsoft Powerpoint documents, Microsoft Word documents, Abiword documents, etc.) then the user can choose a music player, a video player and a document viewer, that would be really useful for the new users to have it that simple. However, I wouldn't say this is a backward step though, I would say it is taking very small steps towards increasing usability. ---MattMedland
With reference to the above, would adding a 'Multimedia' tab to Preferred Applications solve most of the problems that this spec is concerned with? Also, because there are so many mimetypes in each category, there could be a list of applications in order of preference. The .desktop file of each app in the list could be checked if it supports the mimetype of the file being opened and the first one in the list to support the file could be used to open it. ---Philbull
I think it probably would, as long as there were a documents tab too, because there's quite a lot of file-types and apps for those too. Your idea about the list of apps in order of preference is good, I like that idea. Might it be hard to implement though? ---MattMedland
I can think of a basic, hacky way of implementing it, but I don't know enough about the MIME-type system in GNOME to do it properly. It would involve grabbing the MimeType line of the .desktop file for each of the applications in the list and checking if the mimetype of the file being opened is in that line. If it is, open with that app, otherwise go on to the next app in the list. It could be integrated into nautilus using nautilus scripts. Also, looking at GNOME SVN, there is already a multimedia tab in the Preferred Applications Glade file. ---Philbull
Warbo: I was thinking a flexible solution would be to extend the current application into two tabs "Activities" and "File Viewing" (or similar words to the same effect) then Activities could have Web Browser, Email Reader, Word Processor, etc. and Fie Viewing would have Audio, Video, Images, Documents, etc. An ideal solution would probably be to have a dynamic interface which is created from some sort of config files added to each major package, so if, for example, MPlayer gets installed it would place a file in /etc/preferred/mplayer (or something) which would contain its capabilities (eg. which filetypes/activities it should get put into as an option) and a little description (eg. "Mplayer seperates its controls from the content and can use skins to change its appearance." [in a perfect world every media player would have great capabilities so mentioning them would be redundant ]). The preferences application would then read through these config files and only show catagories for which capable players exist (maybe one option would be "Get more from the Internet" which would open GNOME App Install on the relevant section like Sound and Video, that would be cool). In fact I was making a mockup of this, but I might actually make it using my rookie Python skillz. (/me tries not to say "If you want something doing right..." )
Applications already advertise their capabilities via their .desktop files, found in /usr/share/applications. Also, this seems to have a lot in common with easy-codec-installation.
[ChristianNeumair] we don't want yet another failed user interface that only provides access to the whole database. It failed in GNOME 1.x as well!
- Your proposal requires that we somewhere store the association between the contents a MIME type hints at (video, image etc.).
- We also should have a simple way to pick a default application for a whole category of MIME types
- This requires much more work than you possibly see at a first glance, not just a user interface
I came up with a demo interface and with a design proposal that I will improve/modify: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2007-January/msg00064.html
Your interface is pretty sweet, I'll give you that :). This is one of the great things about open-source development, everyone can freely comment and improve upon what's suggested. I was really only aiming to put the idea forward to get people realising that something like this would be good to have, and it seems to have not been in vain. Thanks for your effort :). ---MattMedland
Warbo: Looking at the screenshots of Christian's idea it looks very similar to what I had in mind, with dropdown menus populated based on programs' abilities to perform tasks. However, I was thinking of a seperation between "Actions" and "File Viewing", since web browsing and stuff don't have files associated with them. I was thinking web browsing, email reading, news readers, word processors, etc. would be in "Actions", and movies, music, documents, images, etc. would have dropdown menus for players/viewers. Also, it would be cool for the utility to be populated based on programs' abilities, so if a new type of program is installed it will add its catagory, although this might be hard to implement. A final note, I think it would be worthwhile to give a brief description of the selected program (and *possibly* a screenshot) so users can understand how to use them (eg. Amarok is library based, XMMS is playlist based, this design difference should be explained) and also so a certain program can be found based on its interface if its name is forgotten ("Ooo, that's the one I was after, with the seperate controls!"). Just my thoughts. /me goes back to hack on his Python backend...