2010-11-30

Actions

  • No outstanding actions
  • Tidy up meeting summary, and send follow up email (RobertAncell)

Weekly Summary

  • We are trialling a new meeting summary format. The purpose is to make the summary clearer and more useful to outside parties (RobertAncell)

  • Ubuntu Desktop team members started using the Patch Pilot program by hanging out in #ubuntu-devel for four hours and helping get patches sponsored, for more information see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/CodeReviews#Patch%20Pilots.

  • The maverick retracers have been fixed to correctly consider -proposed and -updates sources, that should fix some broken stacktrace after retracing issues (seb128)

  • Natty retracers have been set up, apport is not on by default yet but that will allow retracing crashes from people turning it on (especially for unity) (seb128)

  • Implement jockey parts of hardware-desktop-n-package-field-modaliases, for seamless integration and picking up of third-party driver packages; ported bcmwl to the new system (MartinPitt)

  • Fix automatic weekly langpack PPA building to work again (MartinPitt)

  • Ported aptdaemon to gtk3.0/pygi; merge request now pending to be reviewed (MartinPitt)

  • Ported jockey to gtk-3.0/pygi; blocked on AppIndicator rebuild against current g-i (MartinPitt)

  • Ported language-selector to gtk3.0/pygi; blocked on landing new aptdaemon in Natty (MartinPitt)

  • Ported usb-creator to gtk-3.0/pygi; blocked on debugging lockup between the threads (MartinPitt)

  • Packaging work to build dbusmenu with both gtk2 and gtk3 done, but we are waiting to upload until after A1 and tedg finishes breaking the API (KenVanDine)

  • Packaging work to build libindicator with both gtk2 and gtk3 done, but we are waiting to upload until after A1 (KenVanDine)

  • Support for Vala in Quickly is getting closer with a full Vala pkgme backend (mterry)

  • Quickly now supports automatically connecting your signals handlers (mterry)
  • We have now evolution 2.32 and all dependencies in Natty (cyphermox, reviewed and fixes by didrocks)

  • gnome-applets migrated to new libpanel-applet-3 and GObject introspection

  • New pulseaudio package for Maverick at https://launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/+archive/ppa

  • xulrunner has been split so couchdb can install Spidermonkey without installing the entire Gecko runtime + GTK + X (chrisccoulson)

  • couchdb has been ported to Spidermonkey 2.0 (chrisccoulson)
  • Various other applications have been updated to work with firefox 4.0 / xulrunner 2.0 - chmsee, conkeror, dehydra, edbrowse, gjs, gnome-shell, icedtea-web, gnome-python-extras and mozvoikko (chrisccoulson - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Natty/Firefox4/XULRunner20Transition, any help is appreciated)

  • Thunderbird 3.1.7 is in the ubuntu-mozilla-security PPA ready for testing (lucid/maverick). Lucid is getting 3.1 as a "major" upgrade in December (chrisccoulson)

  • Build 2 of Firefox 3.6.13 is in the u-m-s PPA for hardy/karmic/lucid/maverick (chrisccoulson)

  • Thunderbird is now buildable on natty (chrisccoulson)
  • Work on the GNOME3 updates continue in the ubuntu-desktop ppa (including new gedit for natty and a11y support for maverick)

Unity

  • New compiz with a lot of improvment and fixes like 2D/3D detection, fallback, fixes un gconf backend and old transition settings migration (didrocks)

  • Unity and all compiz plugins now builds -dbgsym packages (didrocks, thanks RAOF for pointing the issue in unity)
  • Now we have two sessions: one "Ubuntu Desktop" which launch unity by default and one "Ubuntu Classic" which launches compiz (if supported) and gnome-panel. The compiz profiles are separated as well. (didrocks)
  • We got a new Unity and Nux release, still improving the desktop experience, handle the migration with previous launcher settings (didrocks)

Software Center

X.org

  • Mesa 7.9 merged from Debian. This includes a switch to the Gallium driver for r300-r500 cards, and shared-linking the DRI drivers to save disc space. Look out for new or regressed 3D bugs on these cards.

  • -ati DDX patched to select classic mesa drivers when KMS is unavailable, as gallium drivers require KMS. Also adds ForceGallium xorg.conf option for people wanting to test the differences between classic & gallium drivers.

  • Updated instructions about how to try unity on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity

  • Wayland and its dependencies have been packaged for Maverick, and tested on Intel GM45. Still some odds and ends to fix up, but you should be able to install and run it on Intel graphics systems now. There is also a Wayland in Ubuntu FAQ. (BryceHarrington)

  • The workqueue graph for Ubuntu-X now includes links from the graph lines to the list of bugs in launchpad. (BryceHarrington)

IRC Log

Western edition

2010-11-30 17:32:10     pitti   [TOPIC] action review
2010-11-30 17:32:17     tkamppeter      hi
2010-11-30 17:32:18     pitti   seems we didn't have any
2010-11-30 17:32:44     pitti   [TOPIC] partner update
2010-11-30 17:32:48     pitti   kenvandine: are you ready?
2010-11-30 17:32:49     rodrigo_        \o/
2010-11-30 17:34:36      *      kenvandine is semi here
2010-11-30 17:34:37     pitti   [TOPIC] Kubuntu update
2010-11-30 17:34:42     kenvandine      no window manager :)
2010-11-30 17:34:43     pitti   Riddell: do you have something?
2010-11-30 17:34:59     pitti   kenvandine: alt+f2 compiz --replace?
2010-11-30 17:35:06     chrisccoulson   hi (sorry, was at my other computer there)
2010-11-30 17:35:16     kenvandine      gnome-session doesn't seem to be finishing starting
2010-11-30 17:35:20     kenvandine      i'll look at it in a bit :)
2010-11-30 17:35:32     kenvandine      classic gnome session didn't work either
2010-11-30 17:35:46     pitti   kenvandine: is that already your partner update? :-)
2010-11-30 17:35:50     kenvandine      yup
2010-11-30 17:35:58     kenvandine      hehe :)
2010-11-30 17:36:11     kenvandine      want me to do that while we wait for Riddell?
2010-11-30 17:36:28     pitti   please do
2010-11-30 17:36:39     kenvandine      U1 has a bunch of desktopcouch fixes queued up being reviewed now
2010-11-30 17:36:50     kenvandine      so lots of their A1 work items are "Fix committed"
2010-11-30 17:37:04     kenvandine      will be done tomorrow
2010-11-30 17:37:13     pitti   it's getting a bit tight for a1, so they should be moved to a2 now
2010-11-30 17:37:16     kenvandine      but i guess the uploads should wait until after thursday
2010-11-30 17:37:21     kenvandine      yeah
2010-11-30 17:37:49     kenvandine      i'll have them do that, but there is good progress there
2010-11-30 17:37:59     kenvandine      for DX
2010-11-30 17:38:19     kenvandine      dbusmenu and libindicator packages are ready for gtk2/gtk3 builds... but we are waiting until after A1
2010-11-30 17:38:21     mterry  kenvandine, can you get some attention for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/couchdb/+bug/682866  ?  it's blocking a quickly update
2010-11-30 17:38:26     ubot2   Launchpad bug 682866 in couchdb (Ubuntu) "CouchDatabase() call hangs (affects: 2) (heat: 10)" [High,Confirmed]
2010-11-30 17:38:28     pitti   \o/
2010-11-30 17:38:33     kenvandine      and tedg has more API breakage he wants to do
2010-11-30 17:38:40     kenvandine      mterry, i will
2010-11-30 17:38:44     mterry  thx
2010-11-30 17:38:52     kenvandine      also
2010-11-30 17:38:59     seb128  kenvandine, will those be done by next week?
2010-11-30 17:39:03     kenvandine      seb128, yes
2010-11-30 17:39:06     kenvandine      this week in fact
2010-11-30 17:39:07     seb128  the API breakages
2010-11-30 17:39:09     seb128  I mean
2010-11-30 17:39:21     kenvandine      i just won't upload them until after A2
2010-11-30 17:39:29     seb128  1 you mean? ;-)
2010-11-30 17:39:34     kenvandine      whoops
2010-11-30 17:39:35     kenvandine      yeah :)
2010-11-30 17:39:45     seb128  ok, makes sense
2010-11-30 17:39:49     kenvandine      same for gdbus
2010-11-30 17:39:58     kenvandine      that is all i have
2010-11-30 17:40:02     pitti   thanks kenvandine
2010-11-30 17:40:30     pitti   X update -> eastern edition
2010-11-30 17:40:38     pitti   [TOPIC] Unity update
2010-11-30 17:40:47     pitti   didrocks: anything which is currently blocking you or that we should be aware of for A1?
2010-11-30 17:40:58     pitti   FYI, I just respun a desktop image with your latest gnome-session fix
2010-11-30 17:41:02     didrocks        nothing blocked, just uploaded latest bits
2010-11-30 17:41:08     pitti    http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20101130.1/
2010-11-30 17:41:09     didrocks        pitti: oh, there is a new unity just uploaded
2010-11-30 17:41:10     pitti   test away
2010-11-30 17:41:26     didrocks        just making the short summary first:
2010-11-30 17:41:33     didrocks        Unity is the default in ubuntu now!
2010-11-30 17:41:36     didrocks        Now we have two sessions: one "Ubuntu Desktop" which launch unity by default and one "Ubuntu Classic" which launches compiz (if supported) and gnome-panel. The compiz profiles are separated as well.
2010-11-30 17:41:38     didrocks        We got a new Unity and Nux release, still improving the desktop experience, handle the migration with previous launcher settings
2010-11-30 17:41:40     didrocks        There is a new compiz with a lot of improvment and fixes like 2D/3D detection, fallback, fixes gconf backend and old transition settings migration
2010-11-30 17:41:42     didrocks        Unity and all compiz plugins now builds -dbgsym packages
2010-11-30 17:41:55     didrocks        (so, use apport to report unity backtrace)
2010-11-30 17:42:05     pitti   didrocks: congrats for landing all this by A1! great job, I know it was far from easy
2010-11-30 17:42:22     didrocks        pitti: thanks :)
2010-11-30 17:42:33     didrocks        pitti: so, there is a new bamf + nux + unity just uploaded
2010-11-30 17:42:41     didrocks        pitti: if that can make A1, will be nice
2010-11-30 17:42:44     pitti   ack
2010-11-30 17:42:47     pitti   tomorrow's dailies then
2010-11-30 17:42:51     didrocks        yes
2010-11-30 17:43:22     pitti   I'll make sure that we do that
2010-11-30 17:43:36     didrocks        thanks a lot pitti :)
2010-11-30 17:43:46     pitti   no worries
2010-11-30 17:43:57     pitti   thanks didrocks 
2010-11-30 17:44:02     pitti   [TOPIC] Software-center
2010-11-30 17:44:08     tremolux        heyo
2010-11-30 17:44:10     tremolux         * Released Software Center version 3.1.3, includes further performance improvements and bugfixes
2010-11-30 17:44:10     tremolux         * Now tracking Software Center startup performance on reference hardware (Dell Mini 10) at:
2010-11-30 17:44:10     tremolux          * http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/software-center/mini10-startup/startup-times.png
2010-11-30 17:44:10     tremolux         * Additional Software Center startup improvements in-progress, further 20%+ speedup in a branch soon to be merged
2010-11-30 17:44:14     pitti   tremolux: anything which we sohuld be aware of or you want to announce?
2010-11-30 17:44:15     pitti   whoo
2010-11-30 17:44:29     pitti   tremolux: you have a "paste-on-hilight" trigger, don't you?
2010-11-30 17:44:46     rodrigo_        :)
2010-11-30 17:44:51     tremolux        yep, I am actually off having an espresso at Starbucks right now
2010-11-30 17:44:58     pitti   tremolux: did the startup performance get a lot better again with swithcing back to uncompressed indexes?
2010-11-30 17:45:14     pitti   tremolux: /me wants to see the source for tremolux.py
2010-11-30 17:45:18     tremolux        pitti: it did improve it, not sure how much
2010-11-30 17:45:48     pitti   6 s on a Dell Mini 10, aka "abacus" is pretty nice
2010-11-30 17:45:48     mvo     its not much influenced by this as it was mostly using the binray cache, but for invalid-caches it does help (not measured how much though)
2010-11-30 17:46:08     mvo     more to come (we hope :)
2010-11-30 17:46:14     pitti   admittedly it's still 5 s here on a fast machine
2010-11-30 17:46:25     pitti   so it seems not to be much CPU bound
2010-11-30 17:46:49     mvo     5s for you on a ssd with --measure-startup-time?
2010-11-30 17:47:11     pitti   mvo: with "count in my brain"
2010-11-30 17:47:28     pitti   yes, 250 MB/s SSD and 2.4 GHz quad-core
2010-11-30 17:47:33     pitti   but anyway, nice work on this!
2010-11-30 17:47:44     pitti   [TOPIC] release status
2010-11-30 17:47:51     pitti   http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/canonical-desktop-team-natty-alpha-1.html
2010-11-30 17:48:04     pitti   this doesn't look too bad, it by and large seems that everyone (on average) was just missing one WI
2010-11-30 17:48:19     pitti   we can easily transition them to A2 if they are blocked by the A1 freeze
2010-11-30 17:48:29     pitti   but please make sure that your WIs are up to date
2010-11-30 17:49:25     pitti   as for RC bugs, it's well within normal parameters right now
2010-11-30 17:49:50     pitti   would be nice if bryceh and RAOF could bring up bug 292214 in the eastern edition
2010-11-30 17:49:51     ubot2   Launchpad bug 292214 in xserver-xorg-video-mga (Ubuntu Natty) (and 2 other projects) "Xinerama broken since intrepid on MGA (affects: 14) (dups: 1) (heat: 124)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292214
2010-11-30 17:50:10     pitti   likewise bug 636311
2010-11-30 17:50:13     ubot2   Launchpad bug 636311 in xserver-xorg-input-evdev (Ubuntu Natty) (and 6 other projects) "Keyboard special keys interfere with mouse (affects: 198) (dups: 15) (heat: 780)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/636311
2010-11-30 17:50:42     pitti   bug 676949 is marked for a1; does anyone feel particularly attached to shotwell?
2010-11-30 17:50:44     Sarvatt pitti: MGA bug is fixed already
2010-11-30 17:50:46     ubot2   Launchpad bug 676949 in shotwell (Ubuntu) (and 3 other projects) "shotwell crashes on importing images (affects: 10) (dups: 6) (heat: 373)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/676949
2010-11-30 17:50:59     pitti   we can easily move this to later, but it does sound relevant
2010-11-30 17:51:05     seb128  pitti, robert_ancell
2010-11-30 17:51:12     seb128  assign the bug to him
2010-11-30 17:51:16     pitti   seb128: I'll assign him, thanks
2010-11-30 17:51:19     seb128  thanks
2010-11-30 17:51:24     pitti   Sarvatt: awesome, thnaks
2010-11-30 17:52:22     pitti   that's all from my side for release status, questions?
2010-11-30 17:52:30     pitti   jasoncwarner: hello
2010-11-30 17:52:33     seb128  hey jasoncwarner
2010-11-30 17:52:44     jasoncwarner    morning guys
2010-11-30 17:52:54     seb128  jasoncwarner, perfect timing to miss the missing again :p
2010-11-30 17:52:55     pitti   jasoncwarner: meeting started 22 mins ago
2010-11-30 17:53:06     pitti   [TOPIC] new meeting report format
2010-11-30 17:53:07     chrisccoulson   hi jasoncwarner!
2010-11-30 17:53:23     pitti   so, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30 used the new format
2010-11-30 17:53:40     pitti   I think we ought to go back to the previous template, though, to include actions and the various status reports
2010-11-30 17:53:53     pitti   but the "changes since last week" think looks pretty nice as a summary
2010-11-30 17:53:58     pitti   what do you guys think?
2010-11-30 17:54:20     didrocks        don't you think it looks like a draft? :)
2010-11-30 17:54:25     pitti   well, it is
2010-11-30 17:54:29     kenvandine      it did actually make me want to read over the list
2010-11-30 17:54:45     pitti   I mean the size and contents looks fairly appropriate to me for a team report of a week
2010-11-30 17:55:01     kenvandine      however, i think we should probably always append to the bottom, which would make it easier to go back and look at a second time
2010-11-30 17:55:04     didrocks        I agree with that
2010-11-30 17:55:09     pitti   I'm just curious how everyone likes it more or less now
2010-11-30 17:55:19     rodrigo_        it would be easier to read if it had sections, like 'Natty updates', 'software center', etc?
2010-11-30 17:55:36     pitti   rodrigo_: I think that'd be part of actually cleaning and writing them up
2010-11-30 17:55:56     pitti   this is supposed to be the raw input for the weekly report, AFAIUI?
2010-11-30 17:56:09     seb128  well it was a comment made last week
2010-11-30 17:56:13     seb128  we said we would try without category
2010-11-30 17:56:22     seb128  it would work as well to dump into categories
2010-11-30 17:56:29     pitti   seb128: you mean including folding partner, unity, etc. into that?
2010-11-30 17:56:36     pitti   well, worth a try
2010-11-30 17:56:43     seb128  yes
2010-11-30 17:56:43     pitti   might be the discretion of whoever will write this up
2010-11-30 17:56:49     seb128  <kenvandine> however, i think we should probably always append to the bottom, which would make it easier to go back and look at a second time
2010-11-30 17:56:51     pitti   to make something nice and readable
2010-11-30 17:57:05     pitti   seb128: ok, WFM
2010-11-30 17:57:08     seb128  kenvandine, robert_ancell suggested to sort it in real time by interest
2010-11-30 17:57:15     kenvandine      seb128, yeah
2010-11-30 17:57:26     kenvandine      but if i look at it this morning and then again later today
2010-11-30 17:57:27     pitti   seb128: so we should update our meeting template accordingly; I would like to see actions separately
2010-11-30 17:57:29     seb128  so it you are bored before the end of the list you get the key points
2010-11-30 17:57:34     kenvandine      i would have to read the whole thing again
2010-11-30 17:58:06     didrocks        kenvandine: just wait… there is no hurry to read it little by little, isn't it? :)
2010-11-30 17:58:51     mterry  didrocks, well, if it's being updated over the course of the week...
2010-11-30 17:58:56     seb128  didrocks, well one thing we said is that it could be used during the week to pick up blockers etc
2010-11-30 17:59:33     didrocks        seb128: in that case, we can have an "update" in bold? when it's filed after the meeting?
2010-11-30 17:59:39     kenvandine      perhaps if it gets compiled into another final weekly report, the person that does it could put it in order
2010-11-30 18:00:08     kenvandine      but while it is a WIP we just append to the end...
2010-11-30 18:00:15     didrocks        kenvandine: seems you volonteer :)
2010-11-30 18:00:20      *      kenvandine hides
2010-11-30 18:00:22     pitti   ok, so let's try the full thing all the way up to the final mail
2010-11-30 18:00:26     kenvandine      ok
2010-11-30 18:00:41     pitti   jasoncwarner: we still need to incorporate the Eastern edition meeting there
2010-11-30 18:00:44     kenvandine      in general i like the concept behind it better than what we did before
2010-11-30 18:01:13     jasoncwarner    pitti: yeah, eastern edition is later today...
2010-11-30 18:01:13     pitti   jasoncwarner: is it ok for you if I just paste in the log from this meeting to the wiki page, and you merge the X.org updates etc. from Eastern edition?
2010-11-30 18:01:27     jasoncwarner    pitti: yup!
2010-11-30 18:01:32     pitti   ok
2010-11-30 18:01:35     pitti   [TOPIC] AOB
2010-11-30 18:02:00     pitti   anything else?
2010-11-30 18:02:07     jasoncwarner    pitti: I do
2010-11-30 18:02:12     pitti   please go ahead
2010-11-30 18:02:20     jasoncwarner    first, sorry for being late. two words: sick kid. ugh
2010-11-30 18:02:32     jasoncwarner    second, I have two things I wanted to discuss quickly
2010-11-30 18:02:36     pitti   oh, good luck with her/him!
2010-11-30 18:03:26     jasoncwarner    1. Discuss dropping desktopcouch from the CD. Lets explore the possibility of removing this as a default package.
2010-11-30 18:03:42     didrocks        (onneeeeconfffff :/)
2010-11-30 18:03:55     pitti   we'd have to unseed evolution-couchdb
2010-11-30 18:04:07     pitti   which will probably require making this discoverable in evolution somehow?
2010-11-30 18:04:27     pitti   (installing the package from the net sounds fine, since all U1 only makes sense with an internet connection anyway)
2010-11-30 18:04:33     kenvandine      or in ubuntuone-preferences
2010-11-30 18:04:42     pitti   kenvandine: ah, good point
2010-11-30 18:04:42     kenvandine      they do that already for bindwood
2010-11-30 18:04:47     rodrigo_        yes
2010-11-30 18:04:47     seb128  didrocks wanted to get oneconf integration in ubiquity as well
2010-11-30 18:05:08     kenvandine      didrocks, that woud be cool!
2010-11-30 18:05:08     pitti   kenvandine: when you enable contacts syncing, you'd get an aptdaemon dialog for installing desktopcouch?
2010-11-30 18:05:12     didrocks        yeah, which means more work as installing desktopcouch on the same time
2010-11-30 18:05:13     kenvandine      yeah
2010-11-30 18:06:20     didrocks        but well, in any case, you need the network, so installing it in ubiquity while getting u1 credentials is doable
2010-11-30 18:06:23     didrocks        just more work
2010-11-30 18:07:17     pitti   didrocks: in terms of download resources, or also in terms of changing ubiquity?
2010-11-30 18:07:50     didrocks        pitti: changing ubiquity (just a guess) as it has to download it, starts it to then use it for oneconf
2010-11-30 18:08:08     didrocks        but again, just a guess and not a blocker "theorically"
2010-11-30 18:08:39     jasoncwarner    so what I hear is that right now the only thing on the CD that needs it is evolution and that needs a network to be useful anyway...it would require some patching on our part right now. Other things using it in the near future would be ubiquity and oneconf (both of which require network as well, right?)?
2010-11-30 18:09:06     didrocks        jasoncwarner: exactly, as you need network in any case, it makes sense
2010-11-30 18:09:08     pitti   jasoncwarner: ubiquity is the installer; it would be the conduit to get oneconf
2010-11-30 18:09:39     jasoncwarner    pitti: yeah, but do we require network in ubiquity when using ubuntu one/one conf?
2010-11-30 18:09:52     pitti   jasoncwarner: ubiquity/installer itself doesn't
2010-11-30 18:10:08     pitti   but it offers you to install extra driver pacakges and install updates if you have network
2010-11-30 18:10:17     pitti   enabling oneconf would use the same check
2010-11-30 18:10:29     jasoncwarner    pitti: ok...that makes sense
2010-11-30 18:10:39     pitti   i. e. it already has all the building blocks: checking connectivity, actions conditionalized on that, and installing pacakges
2010-11-30 18:11:00     didrocks        pitti: just need the launching services, but shouldn't be complicated to sneak in
2010-11-30 18:11:20     pitti   kenvandine: We alrady have a checkbox for syncing contacts in U1-prefs; can we use this, instead of patching evo?
2010-11-30 18:11:31     kenvandine      yeah
2010-11-30 18:11:34     pitti   sounds great
2010-11-30 18:11:37     didrocks        pitti: u1-pref is deprecated AFAIK
2010-11-30 18:11:39     kenvandine      they have the logic in there already for bookmarks
2010-11-30 18:11:47     rodrigo_        yes, u1-control-panel replaces it
2010-11-30 18:12:01     rodrigo_        so, we need to let nessita know about this
2010-11-30 18:12:07     kenvandine      so if you check bookmarks it installs bindwood
2010-11-30 18:12:07     didrocks        (still waiting NEWing btw :))
2010-11-30 18:12:25     pitti   kenvandine: that sounds perfect; can you add a work item for this for the U1 team?
2010-11-30 18:12:29     seb128  didrocks, will do it, the NEWing
2010-11-30 18:12:33      *      nessita is here
2010-11-30 18:12:35     kenvandine      sure
2010-11-30 18:12:39     didrocks        seb128: thanks :)
2010-11-30 18:12:40     pitti   kenvandine: thanks
2010-11-30 18:12:48     nessita kenvandine: u1prefs is being replaced
2010-11-30 18:12:56     pitti   jasoncwarner: ok, this seems like a good solution and consensus
2010-11-30 18:13:02     jasoncwarner    cool. does anyone think we shouldn't remove desktopcouch? I haven't heard anyone jump up and say we absolutely have to keep it. :)
2010-11-30 18:13:05     kenvandine      nessita, yeah
2010-11-30 18:13:25     seb128  jasoncwarner, pitti: the u1 team will be unhappy
2010-11-30 18:13:33     seb128  but out of this...
2010-11-30 18:13:38     rodrigo_        nessita, we're discussing about removing desktopcouch from the CD, and so have evo-couchdb and its dependencies installed when the user selects syncing of contacts in u1-control-panel
2010-11-30 18:13:48     seb128  I would say do it early and see what users think
2010-11-30 18:13:53     pitti   seb128: just because it's "theirs", or because it will make the user ecperience much worse?
2010-11-30 18:14:15     seb128  pitti, because they think it'll slow u1 adoption I think
2010-11-30 18:14:16     nessita rodrigo_: I'm not sure about that, our roadmap does not plan for that
2010-11-30 18:14:16     jasoncwarner    seb128: ack on that. I'll go talk to them about it
2010-11-30 18:14:20     pitti   of course we won't drop it until that automagic install will be working
2010-11-30 18:14:47     nessita rodrigo_: that meaning, is not a trivial adding to the control panel to install some packages to enable contact synch
2010-11-30 18:14:58     pitti   [ACTION] jasoncwarner to negotiate evo-couchdb dropping with U1 team, and automagic installation via u1-control-panel
2010-11-30 18:15:20     pitti   I think we can help with the control-panel integartion
2010-11-30 18:15:24     pitti   just to agree to the approach
2010-11-30 18:15:35     jasoncwarner    pitti: got the item :)
2010-11-30 18:15:44     pitti   jasoncwarner: what was the other thing you want to discuss?
2010-11-30 18:15:50     jasoncwarner    if that is settled...only other thing I have is
2010-11-30 18:16:25     jasoncwarner    2. OOo is crashing in Natty right now :) Something to watch for (in other words could people test it).
2010-11-30 18:16:49     pitti   WFM (writer)
2010-11-30 18:17:07     didrocks        jasoncwarner: when scrolling?
2010-11-30 18:17:25     pitti   it does look a bit funny, though (the buttons have some shadow)
2010-11-30 18:17:36     pitti   but I guess that needs to wait for an OO.o maintainer
2010-11-30 18:17:37     seb128  jasoncwarner, works there
2010-11-30 18:18:00     jasoncwarner    pitti: didrocks: I had reports of a crash and I had a crash (might be unrelated...was asking people to watch for it).
2010-11-30 18:18:02     seb128  didrocks, this crasher crashes compiz not the application though
2010-11-30 18:18:20     pitti   jasoncwarner: right, current compiz crashes all the time
2010-11-30 18:18:32     didrocks        seb128: sometimes, compiz brings the application with him
2010-11-30 18:18:36     didrocks        it*
2010-11-30 18:18:42     kenvandine      not really unlike mutter :)
2010-11-30 18:18:59     Sarvatt compiz doesn't crash often here, just gtk-window-decorator crashing and respawning constantly taking out window decorations
2010-11-30 18:19:22     jasoncwarner    pitti: I'm done :)
2010-11-30 18:19:24     jasoncwarner    thanks guys!
2010-11-30 18:19:30     pitti   cool, thanks everyone!
2010-11-30 18:19:39     tremolux        thx folks, good day all
2010-11-30 18:19:46     seb128  thanks
2010-11-30 18:20:08     didrocks        thanks :)
2010-11-30 18:20:12     rodrigo_        thanks :-D
2010-11-30 18:20:15      *      kenvandine waves, time for lunch!
2010-11-30 18:20:16     mterry  yay
2010-11-30 18:20:21     seb128  hum, calendar reminder about the meeting
2010-11-30 18:20:45     pitti   jasoncwarner: ok, I'll paste the log; are you doing the final writeup, or should we rotate that in the team?
2010-11-30 18:21:07     jasoncwarner    pitti: I'll do it ...no worries

Eastern edition

(08:31:36 AM) jasoncwarner: Morning! Everyone. Meeting time! :)
(08:31:38 AM) alecu-sprint left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
(08:31:50 AM) jasoncwarner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30
(08:32:07 AM) jasoncwarner: bryceh: RAOF: robert_ancell: TheMuso: you guys here? 
(08:32:17 AM) TheMuso: Yep.
(08:32:19 AM) robert_ancell: jasoncwarner, yup
robbiew robert_ancell 
(08:32:45 AM) jasoncwarner: morning TheMuso: robert_ancell
(08:33:04 AM) mterry [~mike@pool-173-76-235-161.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] entered the room.
(08:33:17 AM) jasoncwarner: (giving RAOF and bryceh another minute)
(08:33:37 AM) komputes left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(08:35:06 AM) jasoncwarner: Ok...guess we should get started...
(08:35:53 AM) jasoncwarner: was everyone able to update meeting notes? this is the week we are trying out something new. 
me me memoserv 
(08:36:56 AM) ***jasoncwarner gives everyone a minute to load and review page *very* quickly
(08:37:10 AM) TheMuso: Totally slipped my mind. I must admit I am a bit absorbed with the unity a11y stuff atm, absorbed to the point where I tend to forget administrative matters occasionally.
(08:37:28 AM) jasoncwarner: western edition has some comments (see chat log on format). 
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(08:38:40 AM) chrisccoulson: oh, i just added my bits to the summary, i probably should have done that earlier though ;)
chris| chrisccoulson 
(08:38:58 AM) jasoncwarner: chrisccoulson: thanks ;)
(08:39:02 AM) mclasen [~mclasen@c-98-229-97-230.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] entered the room.
(08:39:21 AM) jasoncwarner: Ok...moving on to topics
(08:39:28 AM) robert_ancell: how do the eastern edition people find the notes for reading?
(08:40:02 AM) TheMuso: I find them ok.
(08:40:25 AM) robert_ancell: ok, better? ok, same?
(08:41:10 AM) ara left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(08:41:30 AM) ***jasoncwarner notes the lively bunch this morning. 
(08:41:31 AM) jasoncwarner: ;)
(08:41:34 AM) TheMuso: For me, its no different to how things were, since I tend to be aware of what is going on already./
(08:41:50 AM) huats left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(08:41:53 AM) TheMuso: The format is easier to digets though.
(08:41:54 AM) robert_ancell: TheMuso, so did you previously read them, and do you read them now?
(08:42:30 AM) TheMuso: I read them now because feedback is wanted. I tended to read reports of those people's work that affects me, or interests me.
(08:43:06 AM) TheMuso: I do prefer the older meeting summary format./
(08:43:08 AM) TheMuso: though
(08:43:27 AM) RAOF_ [~RAOF@ppp105-211.static.internode.on.net] entered the room.
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(08:43:40 AM) robert_ancell: TheMuso, ok.  What aspects of the older format do you think the new format is missing?
(08:43:58 AM) RAOF_: Sorry; compiz thought that was a good time to wedge my desktop.
(08:44:10 AM) TheMuso: A list of action items, partner update, kubuntu update, etc.
(08:44:15 AM) robert_ancell: RAOF_: heh, know that
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RAOF RAOF_ 
(08:44:49 AM) robert_ancell: TheMuso, ok, so we still have action item.  The headings are not there for this trial, but I'm going to make an alternative write up with headings so we can compare
(08:44:54 AM) jasoncwarner: RAOF_ :) 
(08:44:56 AM) chrisccoulson: i like the general summary idea in the new format, but it seems to have ended up with there being a lot of text, and presented in a slightly disorganized way
(08:45:02 AM) TheMuso: ok.
(08:45:06 AM) TheMuso: chrisccoulson: Yeah I agree with that.
(08:45:08 AM) Richie [~Richie@87.113.127.3] entered the room.
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(08:45:22 AM) robert_ancell: chrisccoulson, do you think a few headings (X, Unity etc) will improve that?
(08:45:22 AM) Richie is now known as WelshDragon
(08:45:25 AM) RAOF_: I noticed that I was the ony person who did any updates to it during the week.  Unless I was looking at the wrong place :)
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(08:45:29 AM) WelshDragon [~Richie@unaffiliated/welshdragon] entered the room.
(08:45:33 AM) robert_ancell: jasoncwarner, do we have any actions to put in that section
(08:45:38 AM) robert_ancell: RAOF_, you were :)
(08:45:39 AM) chrisccoulson: robert_ancell, yeah, a few headings would definately help there
(08:46:15 AM) TheMuso: As I said, I tend to gravitate to those things that affect/interest me only, so sorting with some kind of heading structure would make that easier.
(08:46:30 AM) TheMuso: Granted, a lot of the desktop goings on do interest me.
(08:46:36 AM) Amaranth: I wish launchpad had some way of making package groups so I could see all of the bugs from several packages at once
(08:47:43 AM) jasoncwarner: robert_ancell: I have an action, but haven't gotten to it yet. though, my action is to mail out summary ;)
(08:47:58 AM) seb128: hey guys ;-)
(08:48:01 AM) RAOF_: Amaranth: That would be pretty useful; moreso if you could do tag groups (like: kernel bugs marked “radeon” + xserver-xorg-video-radeon + Xorg bugs)
(08:48:08 AM) jasoncwarner: hey seb128
(08:48:09 AM) seb128: robert_ancell, jasoncwarner: I find the sections easier to read as well
(08:48:12 AM) RAOF_: Good evening seb128
(08:48:16 AM) seb128: hey RAOF
(08:48:18 AM) robert_ancell: seb128, hey
(08:48:29 AM) Amaranth: RAOF_: I want it for compiz packages :)
(08:48:30 AM) seb128: well I find the summary easier to read with section
(08:48:58 AM) seb128: like having a clear summary of the s-c, unity, xorg worlds
(08:49:01 AM) Amaranth: At one point I moved all of the bugs to the compiz package for just this reason but the bugsquad outsmarted me and moved a lot of them back and new bugs of course don't go to the right place
(08:49:42 AM) jasoncwarner: seb128: I think that is the general comment... robert_ancell was going to try an adapted format with headings...
(08:49:43 AM) seb128: Amaranth, the best way is to get a team subscribed to all the components you want to watch and watch the team bug
(08:49:47 AM) RAOF_: Amaranth: Talk to bryceh about getting one or more arsenal scripts to do what you want?
(08:49:55 AM) seb128: or that
(08:50:23 AM) jasoncwarner: ok...on to quick topics for eastern edition 
(08:50:25 AM) Amaranth: Yeah, I should see if we can get the compiz packagers team subscribed to all of them
(08:50:30 AM) jasoncwarner: [TOPIC] X update
(08:50:31 AM) seb128: jasoncwarner, right, I was just giving my personal opinion on the summary from this week
RAOF RAOF_ 
(08:50:34 AM) robert_ancell: so, I wanted to try the minimum complexity report, and now we have a baseline we can try headings
(08:50:36 AM) Amaranth: I think it's only subscribed to compiz
(08:50:41 AM) jasoncwarner: RAOF_ or bryceh?
(08:50:46 AM) Amaranth: Oh, am I interrupting a meeting?
(08:50:59 AM) RAOF_: X update:
(08:51:32 AM) jasoncwarner: Amaranth: it's all good! no worries...we are going to be quick anyway...
(08:51:41 AM) RAOF_: Mesa 7.9 merged from Debian; this includes a switch to the gallium r300 driver and we're also building the r600 gallium driver (but it's not enabled by default)
(08:52:37 AM) RAOF_: There's also a new xorg.conf option to switch between the two drivers - ForceGallium true will enable the gallium driver, ForceGallium false will enable the classic driver, and omitting the option will choose the default.
(08:53:02 AM) bryceh: heya
(08:53:33 AM) RAOF_: Mesa also shaved many megabytes of it's install size by dynamically linking the DRI drivers.
(08:53:37 AM) bryceh: we also brought up idea of moving to xserver 1.10
(08:54:52 AM) jibel left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(08:54:57 AM) RAOF_: There doesn't seem to be anything radioactive in 1.10, so we'll probably choose to ship it in Natty, but the discussion has just started.
RAOF RAOF_ 
(08:55:52 AM) jasoncwarner: oh, bryceh and I were talking about wayland and 3d v 2d drivers for chipsets like nvidia. ....he mentioned I should ask about 3d state in -nouveau drivers... I think that is for RAOF?
(08:56:11 AM) zyga left the room (quit: Quit: Ex-Chat).
(08:56:25 AM) RAOF_: Ok.  3D state in nouveau is: Upstream still doesn't want bug reports.
(08:56:31 AM) RAOF_: However, the 3D is pretty solid.
(08:56:54 AM) RAOF_: It's no less solid than some other DRI drivers we're shipping - savage, mga, etc.
(08:56:59 AM) bryceh: of the userbase numbers I've seen, NVIDIA graphics hardware is by far the most widely owned
(08:57:14 AM) Acwb left the room.
(08:57:40 AM) bryceh: which means if we had a solid nouveau+unity story, then the unity play will go a lot further
(08:58:06 AM) jasoncwarner: bryceh: that was going to be my question...I guess I can update to unity and try nouveau and see :)
(08:58:40 AM) RAOF_: There are a couple of remaining problems - nouveau 3D is more likely to hit paths that end in a GPU lockup, and nouveau doesn't yet have powermanagement (although that looks moderately likely to land in 2.6.38)
(08:59:35 AM) RAOF_: And then there are some newer chips which nouveau won't drive at all, but that's somewhat par for the course. :/
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(09:00:32 AM) bryceh: an uneviable choice we have
RAOF RAOF_ 
(09:00:58 AM) jasoncwarner: thanks, RAOF_ ...I'll probably ping you later to discuss a bit more 
(09:01:00 AM) bryceh: we can opt to stick with non-3D nouveau, and thus limit how many people will be able to run unity by at least 50%
(09:01:47 AM) jasoncwarner: bryceh: is that glass half full or half empty talking? ;)
(09:02:07 AM) robert_ancell: or damned if you do, and damned if you don't
(09:02:10 AM) bryceh: or we can enable 3D on nouveau to support unity, but likely cause widespread breakages, and lots of bug reports that we won't be able to do anything about (since upstream won't take the bug reports, and since gpu hang bugs are insanely hard to troubleshoot)
(09:02:48 AM) bryceh: I think robert_ancell has it.  ;-)
(09:02:51 AM) jasoncwarner: :)
RAOF RAOF_ 
(09:03:12 AM) RAOF_: I don't know how likely widespread breakages are, although they're certianly a risk.
(09:03:19 AM) jasoncwarner: ok... bryceh and RAOF_, I'd like to talk more outside the meeting just so I have a feel for it. 
(09:03:24 AM) jasoncwarner: cool?
(09:03:27 AM) RAOF_: Yup.
(09:03:33 AM) bryceh: well one last question... does unity run on -nvidia ?
(09:03:45 AM) RAOF_: Yes.
(09:03:47 AM) chrisccoulson: didrocks runs it on nvidia i think
(09:03:51 AM) bryceh: ok, then no problem
(09:04:01 AM) RAOF_: Like kwin, many of the DX team develop on nvidia systems :)
(09:04:24 AM) chrisccoulson: i steer clear of nvidia systems having owned a nvidia based desktop for years
(09:04:28 AM) chrisccoulson: :)
(09:04:44 AM) ***TheMuso recently swapped out the NVIDIA card in his desktop for a 2nd hand amd card.
(09:05:09 AM) RAOF_: The AMD cards do have the advantage of working out of the box, yeah. :)
(09:05:12 AM) TheMuso: Although my notebook has NVIDIA, so I don't get to avoid it entirely
(09:05:15 AM) bryceh: the wayland + unity + nouveau combo we probably don't need to worry about getting sorted for natty
(09:05:30 AM) ***RAOF_ shudders
(09:05:36 AM) bryceh: ;-)
(09:06:05 AM) mterry left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
(09:06:07 AM) RAOF_: Are we going to have a wayland + unity + *anything* combo for Natty?
(09:06:14 AM) jasoncwarner: next topic [TOPIC] A11y
RAOF RAOF_ 
(09:06:28 AM) jasoncwarner: RAOF_ wayland? no
(09:06:44 AM) RAOF_: Yeah, didn't think so.
(09:06:46 AM) TheMuso: Not really much to report. Started working on a an a11y design for the launcher, but was then asked to look at the unity panel, as the qa team want to start automated testing on it.
RAOF RAOF_ 
(09:07:09 AM) KenEdwards left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(09:07:12 AM) TheMuso: The issue with the unity panel is whilst one can navigate menus once clicked on, i.e navigate up/down menus, one cannot move from one menu to another using arrow keys.
(09:07:31 AM) TheMuso: Whilst not an a11y issue as such, it does prevent testing, and general keyboard usage.
(09:07:52 AM) TheMuso: A solution also needs to be found for labeling indicator icons in the accessibility framework, which I am currently looking into now.
(09:08:20 AM) seb128: the left,right not working issue is a bug
(09:08:34 AM) TheMuso: seb128: Yes exactly.
(09:09:00 AM) seb128: did you let the unity team know it's blocking testing?
(09:09:49 AM) TheMuso: njpatel asked me to look at the panel because QA wanted to test it, I just had a play with the panel as much as I could and reported my findings.
(09:11:53 AM) TheMuso: So I think they are aware that its blocking testing.
(09:12:06 AM) jasoncwarner: TheMuso: I would confirm...just to be sure..
(09:12:13 AM) TheMuso: Ok.
(09:12:20 AM) ***TheMuso feels stretched in multiple directions atm...
(09:12:26 AM) TheMuso: :)
(09:12:57 AM) jasoncwarner: [TOPIC] Anything Else?
robbiew robert_ancell 
(09:13:36 AM) jasoncwarner: robert_ancell: wasn't sure what you wanted to report
(09:13:55 AM) robert_ancell: jasoncwarner, report?
(09:14:13 AM) robert_ancell: just the usual gnome2.32/gnome3 updates from me
(09:14:47 AM) robert_ancell: One last thing, I tidied up the formatting of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30 and added sections
(09:16:05 AM) bryceh: robert_ancell, I like the new format a lot.  much easier to grok
(09:16:40 AM) robert_ancell: bryceh, needs some graphs though :)
(09:16:48 AM) bryceh: I have one!
(09:16:52 AM) bryceh: http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/totals-natty-workqueue.svg
(09:18:09 AM) bryceh: kind of a boring graph, but in this case that's a very good thing ;-)
(09:18:18 AM) robert_ancell: bryceh, nice :), we need an easy way to drop that sort of thing in
(09:18:28 AM) ***jasoncwarner notes his love of graphs
(09:19:00 AM) bryceh: this is enabling us to keep tight track of *all* xorg bugs filed against natty
(09:19:05 AM) seb128: bryceh, what do you consider the "workqueue"?
(09:20:02 AM) seb128: the bugs which have a natty task?
(09:20:02 AM) bryceh: seb128, bugs that need our attention; i.e. that are not Incomplete without response, or forwarded upstream, or fix committed
(09:20:17 AM) bryceh: seb128, no it looks for bugs that have  a tag 'natty'
(09:20:40 AM) seb128: the count seems really low...
(09:20:46 AM) bryceh: apport and arsenal add 'natty' tags automatically where we can determine the user's version based on logs
(09:21:08 AM) bryceh: seb128, yes but we're still pre-alpha-1
(09:21:12 AM) ***TheMuso notes his dislike of graphs.
(09:21:23 AM) bryceh: my experience has been that it'll go up exponentially as we get towards beta
(09:22:00 AM) seb128: well, you consider that all issues open before natty don't concern natty unless someone checks and confirms it's still an issue then?
(09:22:08 AM) seb128: (just curious of other teams workflows)
(09:22:38 AM) bryceh: seb128, that's correct
(09:23:09 AM) bryceh: seb128, I might bug-spam people to ask them to re-test maverick bugs against natty after alpha-1 or alpha-2, as I've done in the past
(09:23:28 AM) bryceh: and then if they run apport-collect it should re-tag them natty
(09:23:35 AM) cyphermox left the room (quit: Quit: Quitte).
(09:23:51 AM) bryceh: and then they'll appear on this chart :-)
(09:24:30 AM) bryceh: TheMuso, that's a fair point.  It would be pretty straightforward for me to represent the data in a table format as well
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(09:24:58 AM) TheMuso: bryceh: ok cool.
(09:25:05 AM) bryceh: TheMuso, which would be displayed in a format similar to http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-x-swat/patches.html
(09:25:07 AM) johanbr [~j@blk-137-70-154.eastlink.ca] entered the room.
(09:25:16 AM) TheMuso: ok
(09:25:34 AM) bryceh: TheMuso, just let me know if it is something you would use, I'd be more than happy to set it up
(09:25:53 AM) TheMuso: bryceh: Thanks for the heads up, will let you know if I am interested.
(09:25:56 AM) seb128: bryceh, interesting
(09:26:09 AM) seb128: I'm still trying to figure how to deal with desktop bugs
(09:26:26 AM) bryceh: TheMuso, already collecting the data and generating a few graphs for audio bugs - http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-audio/
(09:26:44 AM) seb128: we pretty much stopped dealing with them and rely on qa or triager to raise issues nowadays...
(09:26:45 AM) ***TheMuso looks.
(09:26:56 AM) seb128: but it's not really optimal
(09:27:08 AM) bryceh: seb128, so far I'm liking this approach, it helps us focus on ones confirmed as natty bugs, and we can get to them very quickly (same day service) if the user filed them using apport
(09:27:26 AM) bryceh: and it feels good to be able to drive a graph to zero :-)
(09:27:51 AM) seb128: well you can get to triaging quickly
(09:27:51 AM) TheMuso: Audio is a firehose as well, so we tend to just deal with them as they come in, as best we can. Because we often have to wait a long while before we can actually get fixes into the dev release at the time, its just easier to work upstream and let users know when the fix has arrived.
(09:28:27 AM) seb128: but it means you might get old bugs slipping out easily
(09:28:58 AM) bryceh: TheMuso, *nod*.  I sometimes do similar, that's why I count "forwarded upstream" as a (temporary) resolution to exclude the bug from this chart
(09:29:10 AM) TheMuso: Right.
(09:29:39 AM) bryceh: I think I have it set so when the upstream bug gets marked fix released, it'll show up again in the work queue (so I can decide about backporting the fix)
(09:30:21 AM) bryceh: there's also a separate report just for those types of bugs - e.g. http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/ubuntu-audio/upstream-fixed.html
(09:32:43 AM) bryceh: robert_ancell, are we going to continue to use the new meeting report format for next week?
(09:32:48 AM) seb128: bryceh, could you get a timestamp on the pages?
(09:33:00 AM) bryceh: seb128, yep, sure can
(09:33:03 AM) robert_ancell: bryceh, I want to, I guess it's up to jasoncwarner?
(09:33:10 AM) seb128: bryceh, http://www2.bryceharrington.org:8080/X/Reports/desktop-bugs/
(09:33:16 AM) robert_ancell: I think most people are convinced it's the same or better
(09:33:22 AM) seb128: bryceh, does the timestamps there means only the milestone one is updated?
(09:33:51 AM) seb128: robert_ancell, I think most people will be convinced it's better with your formatting update you did ;-)
(09:34:05 AM) bryceh: seb128, yes, but I'll get those flipped back on.  Sometimes launchpad chokes with some of the larger bug collections
(09:34:06 AM) seb128: robert_ancell, I think most people will be convinced it's better with your formatting update you did ;-)
(09:34:08 AM) seb128: ups
(09:35:13 AM) seb128: bryceh, ok, thanks
(09:35:46 AM) seb128: bryceh, did you think about getting those scripts run on a people page rather than your own server?
(09:35:57 AM) seb128: would that be possible?
(09:36:03 AM) seb128: (like depends available etc)?
(09:36:10 AM) ***jasoncwarner can't tell if we are still having meeting anymore (not saying much about my moderation skills ;) )
(09:36:26 AM) robert_ancell: jasoncwarner, break out the gavel
Unknown command.
(09:36:40 AM) jasoncwarner: [END MEETING] :)

DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-11-30 (last edited 2010-12-01 03:18:09 by jasoncwarner)