Sunday, May 17th, 2009, 7:00pm (1900) PDT
Introduction to LoCos
Lots of new people tonight, so we spent a few minutes talking about what LoCos are and how they relate to LUGs
LUGS tend to be focused on in-person, fun, social meetups. LoCos are more focused on advocacy (representing Ubuntu at conferences, speaking and presenting at LUGs, etc.)
- We definitely have a booth now
Internet and electricity aren't provided for free, so we need to decide whether to pay for them or not (mailing list link)
- Once we find out whose booths are around us, we could talk to them about sharing power and 'net
- Maybe just bring laptops (run off battery power)? Do we need internet access?
CaliforniaTeam/Projects/OSCON2009 will be updated with more OSCON info soon
- Not guaranteed another Canonical conference pack (since we used one this year at SCaLE already)
- Discussion moved to mailing list
- Open Source World (aka Linux World)
OSW's dotOrg options this year are very limited. Regular booths are >$1000, and they decided we don't qualify because Canonical is for-profit. Fedora and !OpenSuSE don't qualify either
- Even if we could have gotten a booth, it's very soon after OSCON, so it might have been too much.
- Jaunty installfests
- LUGOD (Davis) has an installfest on May 30; SVLUG has one June 23rd
- Clarifications about the role we would play at a LUG installfest: not taking it over, keeping identities separate, cooperating with other distro users, etc.
The usual SoCal installfest at Chapman may not work, because they'll be on summer when we'd have it (--> fewer people around). Other options: UC Irvine ACM, OCLUG (at CSU Fullerton)
- Discussion moved to mailing list
OSCON -- Booth Planning (including questions/discussion brought up recently on the ML (regarding power, internet)
- Open Source World (Formerly Linux World) -- Initial discussion
- Jaunty Installfest(s) (Discussion, Planning) -- We still don't have a location, date, plan for promotion, etc.
Option - LUGOD installfest May,30 (Davis, CA)
07:10 < Flannel> Alright, so. Welcome everyone to the "oh my god its finals week" edition of Ubuntu California. 07:10 < Kr0ntab> hello 07:10 < Flannel> Our agenda for tonight currently consists of: 07:10 < sn9> the following 07:11 < Flannel> OSCON discussion, Open Source World (long term planning), and Jaunty Installfest stuffs. 07:11 < Flannel> These are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/09May17 07:11 < Flannel> As always, if you have a topic to add in the middle of the meeting, feel free to speak up. 07:12 < Flannel> I would, however, like to postpone the regular agenda, 07:12 < Flannel> we've got a number of new people here tonight (hi guys!). Do any of you have questions/whatever with regards to LoCos? 07:13 < Flannel> Or, do you think you have a good idea of whta one is? Would you like a quick run down, etc? 07:13 < jdeslip_> I am sure I have questions ... but I don't knwo what they are 07:13 < Flannel> Alright, that's what I figured. 07:14 * _dfox has a vague idea of what LoCos are 07:14 < sn9> fyi, the turnout is high tonight due to announcements in plenty of other channels 07:14 < rww> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoFAQ#General%20Questions is always a good start :) 07:14 < Flannel> so, LoCo stands for *Lo*cal *Co*mmunity; we're a group of Ubuntu users/enthusiasts/etc in California, 07:14 < Flannel> Most of the countries around the world have LoCos, in the US, we do them by state. 07:15 < Grantbow> rww +1 07:15 < sn9> yes, and Flannel is our fearless-leader-du-jour 07:15 < Flannel> We're in charge of promotion, advocacy, and support in California. 07:15 < _dfox> like a LUG, but ubuntu-specific, right? 07:15 < jdeslip_> Sounds good 07:15 < Flannel> LoCos in general also covers Translation, but we speak english, so we're no good for that. 07:15 < Flannel> LoCos aren't LUGs. LUGs are groups of users, we're a promotional group. 07:16 < _dfox> i see 07:16 < Flannel> While there is overlap, and we do all have fun, and have parties and stuff (and do support), it's a bit different. 07:16 < sn9> well, maybe the FL loco might translate into Spanglish 07:16 < Grantbow> one page describing LoCo & LUG relations is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UserGroupContacts 07:16 < Flannel> There's... a better one... let me find it. 07:16 < Grantbow> linked from there probably 07:17 < rww> Flannel: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoWorkingWithOtherGroups ? 07:17 < Flannel> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoWorkingWithOtherGroups 07:17 < Flannel> yeah 07:17 < Flannel> Anyway, That's just a rundown, feel free to ask questions whenever. It's a lot to absorb in five minutes, so don't worry if you still are hazy. 07:18 < _dfox> hmm yes, but good info, I'll study it more 07:18 < jdeslip_> Thanks. Makes sense pretty much 07:18 < rww> _dfox: to answer directly in here, rather than throwing links at you, LUGS tend to be focused on in-person, fun, social meetups. While we do have those, we're more focused on advocacy (representing Ubuntu at conferences, speaking and presenting at LUGs, etc.) 07:18 < _dfox> have been using ubuntu since 8.04 64 bit, before that ran debian 07:19 < sn9> Sargun: does gentoo have any analogue? 07:19 < _dfox> rww: good explanation 07:20 < Flannel> So, moving on to regular business? or do we want to do brief introductions? or ... 07:21 < Flannel> Alright. So, business then, introductions can be had later. 07:21 < Flannel> Our first order of business for tonight is OSCON. 07:21 < rww> I vote we dive into business, then the people who aren't busy right after the meeting can do intros :) 07:22 < Flannel> We've got a booth for OSCON, but we need to discuss what we want to have at that booth. 07:22 < Flannel> It was recently brought up that both internet, and electricity, aren't provided for free at OSCON, 07:22 < Flannel> and a question was raised as to whether we think we even need those. 07:22 < sn9> can internet be shared among booths? 07:22 < rww> The power/internet discussion was on the mailinglist at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2009-May/000580.html , for those who missed it. 07:23 < Grantbow> Flannel, are you or Nathan going to be able to attend? 07:23 < Flannel> Not sure. Yasumoto_, did you hear anything with regards to that? 07:23 < Flannel> Nathan won't be. I most likely will be. 07:23 < Yasumoto_> hm 07:23 < wildintellect> power seems like a good idea, internet probably not necessary 07:23 < Grantbow> kk 07:23 < Flannel> Also, before we get too far into discussion, 07:23 < jdeslip_> I have registered for just he expo at OSCON. Would volunteer to help in any capacity 07:23 < Flannel> We don't need to decide tonight, we're just looking for discussion so we can decide. 07:23 < Grantbow> jdeslip_: great, thanks 07:24 < Flannel> At SCaLE (southern california linux expo), we've always had demo computers (And burned CDs throughout the day) 07:24 < sn9> i am even more out of the loop than usual tonight; what are the oscon dates, again? 07:24 < wildintellect> july 20-24 07:24 < Yasumoto_> I think that once we know who's around us, we can talk to people about sharing power/internet 07:24 < Flannel> but, that's not really what makes or breaks our booth, so I'm not sure we even need the computers. And we can certainly get by with burning CDs beforehand. 07:25 < Yasumoto_> yeah, I'm thinking that so long as we have a good staff, some flyers, and a few CDs, we'll be alright regardless 07:25 < sn9> july 20-24 is not long before opensourceworld 07:25 < Flannel> It was pointed out... by... darn, I don't remember who, that most booths just have the CDs they have, and if you want something exotic, you're out of luck. 07:25 < wildintellect> since I'm new around here, what do you guys have in terms of booth materials - banner, table cover etc 07:25 < Flannel> sn9: we'll get to that ;) 07:25 < rww> I'll be filling out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/OSCON2009 a little better next week; if you're definitely going, it might be worth adding your name to that page 07:26 < Flannel> wildintellect: In terms of SCaLE, we have some schwag provided by canonical (stickers, pens, flyers) and then we gave out CDs 07:26 < jdeslip_> If we had a few laptops with a couple hours battery life each, we could probably keep a demo going 07:26 < Grantbow> rww: cool, thanks, we'll get it in better shape. I know it needs work. 07:26 < sn9> jdeslip_: an ubuntu demo with no 'net? 07:26 < Flannel> sn9: Does anyone really want to surf the web to try out an OS? 07:26 * Flannel doesn't know. 07:26 * _dfox got a sticker at SCaLE 07:27 < Grantbow> Flannel: how much schwag? 07:27 < sn9> Flannel: it's not about surfing. likely, some use of synaptic is worth demonstrating 07:27 < Flannel> wildintellect: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nathanhaines/2353642188/in/set-72157604204639748/ that's last year's 07:27 < _dfox> unforch, oscon $ is way out of my price range :( 07:27 < Flannel> sn9: Well, we can always do local repos 07:28 < Grantbow> _dfox: exhibit pass is free 07:28 < Flannel> Grantbow: Just a conference pack. Enough to cover two days, but not much more. 07:28 < jdeslip_> dfox: the expo ticket is free 07:28 < Flannel> Grantbow: also, we've already used one this year for SCaLE. We certainly aren't guaranteed another. 07:28 < Grantbow> k 07:28 < Yasumoto_> Flannel: but we should still apply for one regardless, it's a respectably high-profile location 07:29 * Grantbow nods 07:29 < rww> Grantbow: "exhibit pass" meaning the booths, right? 07:29 < Flannel> Yasumoto_: indeed, but we can't count on it-- we really ought to produce some of our own fliers, etc. 07:29 < Grantbow> rww: right 07:29 * rww hasn't looked at the price page 07:29 < sn9> not that it really helped that much at SCaLE, since much of what it got was available anyway 07:29 < Flannel> sn9: What? 07:29 < Yasumoto_> Flannel: totally agreed :) 07:29 < sn9> conf pack 07:29 < Grantbow> no word back from firstname.lastname@example.org yet about Canonical's presence, formally or informally. 07:30 < Flannel> Grantbow: the marketing team has no official say, they wouldn't be the ones to know. 07:30 < Yasumoto_> rww: exhibit hall pass means that you can walk around the show floor, but can't get into any of the sessions 07:30 < Flannel> Grantbow: The marketing team is also mostly defunct right now. 07:30 < Grantbow> Flannel: formally, right. 07:30 < sn9> :( 07:30 < rww> Do we have an idea of what times we'll be there, by the way? 07:31 < Flannel> Well, -marketing started up a ... year ago, and then died a little afterwards (except for spreadubuntu), but, that's offtopic. 07:31 < _dfox> well if the exhibit pass is free, that's more to my liking; sure, it's a lot closer than Scale was too :) 07:31 < Grantbow> anyone have the deadline date for free passes handy? 07:31 < wildintellect> if it's anything like Where, about a month before they want the names 07:31 < Flannel> Alright, before we descend into chaos, 07:32 < Flannel> Right now we obviously don't know what we want to do about the booth. But give it some thought. 07:32 < Grantbow> we can move further discussion to our mail list 07:32 < wildintellect> but you can still reserve one up until you get there in case you have a last minute 07:33 < Flannel> Personally, I feel we can certainly live without internet, and quite possibly live without electricity; we just have to go low tech, and make sure its quality. 07:33 < Grantbow> on-site last minute is free too: no deadline! 07:33 < rww> For the new people, the mailing list at https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca is one of the places we discuss stuff between meetings (the other place being here) 07:33 < Grantbow> rww +1 07:33 < Flannel> but, yes, this should be discussed on the mailing list further. We've still got a bit of time t odecide. 07:33 < Flannel> Anyone else have anything to say about OSCON right now? 07:34 < Flannel> Alright. We'll move on to the next one. 07:34 < Torikun> Should it be left to the list? 07:34 < Flannel> Torikun: It's moved to list, in two weeks, it'll be moved back here. but hopefully we'll have some good discussion on list, so in two weeks we can decide. 07:34 < Grantbow> list is good, woe have limited time today. 07:34 < Grantbow> *we 07:34 < Flannel> Alright. Now, regrading OSW. 07:34 < rww> Torikun: I'll definitely be mailing the list sometime next week about it, so it won't get forgotten about. 07:34 < Flannel> regarding, even. 07:35 < Flannel> As was already mentioned, OSW is a few weeks after OSCON. 07:35 < Kr0ntab> Not to speak out of turn, but has anyone planned on attending the Usenix conference in San Diego? 07:35 < Grantbow> forgotten, lol 07:35 < Flannel> Kr0ntab: when is it? 07:35 < Flannel> June 14-19 07:36 < Kr0ntab> yup 07:36 < Kr0ntab> http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix09/ 07:36 < Kr0ntab> for the record. 07:36 < Flannel> I'm not aware of anyone. We certainly aren't attending as a LoCo. 07:36 < Grantbow> June 1st 07:36 < Grantbow> oops, 14, my bad, deadline is the 1st 07:37 < Grantbow> they have lots of events. http://www.usenix.org/event/ 07:37 < Kr0ntab> Okay... just curious. I'll be attending, and wasn't sure if anyone else might be there. 07:38 < Grantbow> so, back to Open Source World in August... 07:38 < Flannel> Yes, back to OSW. 07:38 < Flannel> As sn9 pointed out, OSW is right on the heels of OSCON. 07:39 < Flannel> I'm thinking we can only attend (have a booth, etc) one of the two. 07:39 < Flannel> Ah, actually, Yasumoto_ has something else to menion about it 07:39 < Flannel> so, take it away Yasumoto_ 07:39 < Yasumoto_> So, Open Source World is taking a new direction this year, and only has a very limited dotOrg Pavillion. 07:40 < Yasumoto_> At first, they weren't going to have one at all, and started quoting me $1000 booth locations 07:40 < Yasumoto_> Then they decided that they were going to open up to ten projects that didn't have a corporate sponsor, which would be appealing to their audience 07:41 < Yasumoto_> I checked in with them for clarification, and projects such as Ubuntu (with Canonical), Fedora (Red Hat), and OpenSUSE (Novell) would be unable to participate in the pavillion 07:42 < Grantbow> interesting, thanks for checking - so a booth isn't an option? 07:42 < Flannel> clarification, since we don't have any ties to Canonical. 07:42 < Flannel> Grantbow: for this year, no. 07:42 < Yasumoto_> Flannel: yeah, exactly 07:42 < Yasumoto_> I mentioned that we're just a local community group of volunteers 07:42 < rww> Can we stand outside the venue in huge worn coats begging people to take Ubuntu CDs? 07:43 < Yasumoto_> but the response was that they wanted to go for projects with zero corporate backing in any form (more home-grown projects) 07:43 < Yasumoto_> heh 07:43 < lcafiero> Fedora is taking a pass on Open Source World 07:43 < Torikun> We can always ask for permission rww 07:43 < Yasumoto_> rww: totally :) 07:43 < Yasumoto_> lcafiero: good to know, thanks :) 07:43 < Yasumoto_> lcafiero: you guys came to the same conclusion? 07:43 * rww was kidding, is lacking a fur coat and the inclination to stand outside in summer weather :p 07:43 < lcafiero> Pretty much, Yasumoto -- thought it was pretty unfair. 07:44 * Grantbow wonders the real renaming significance from LinuxWorld to Open Source World 07:44 * _dfox subscribed to the loco group list 07:44 < wildintellect> it's all economics 07:44 < Torikun> 3conomics wildintellect 07:44 < lcafiero> economics and participation from a certain Redmond company. 07:44 < Flannel> So, that makes my "don't burn out" comment entirely moot in this case. But, it is something we should consider in the future. 07:44 < Yasumoto_> lcafiero: agreed it's a tad odd 07:45 < lcafiero> To say the least 07:46 < Flannel> Anyone else have anything to say with regard to OSW? snide, or otherwise? ;) 07:46 < Grantbow> I'll be going if anyone wants to meet up there. 07:46 < lcafiero> I could continue, but won't 07:46 < Grantbow> lcafiero: lol 07:46 < lcafiero> I will be attending, though 07:46 < rww> Grantbow: how much are tickets? 07:46 < Grantbow> rww: exhibits are free 07:47 < rww> okays, I may be there, then :) 07:47 * rww is all about the free stuff 07:47 < Flannel> Alright, so... our last topic on the agenda is: Discussion/Planning/etc for Jaunty Installfests. 07:48 < sn9> karmic! 07:48 < Flannel> For those of you joining us: We had a few release parties surrounding the release, and we tend to like to wait a month or so to have any installfests (at least, thats what we've said so far) 07:48 < wildintellect> I noticed it on the past agenda, so I'd though I'd offer an invite 07:48 < Flannel> to keep the major bugs away from totally green Linux people. 07:48 < wildintellect> I'm the installfest coordinator for LUGOD, and we just scheduled one for May 30 07:48 < sn9> well, i am on irc from jaunty, and the install was unexpectedly smooth 07:49 < Flannel> sn9: Yeah, but you can't tell that until after the release. 07:49 < Grantbow> wildintellect: epic 07:49 < rww> wildintellect: that's Davis, right? 07:49 < Yasumoto_> wildintellect: awesome, thanks :) 07:49 < wildintellect> yes 07:49 < Grantbow> SVLUG has one May 23rd 07:49 < sn9> i attended a LUGOD installfest, and apparently turned attendees off by being too enthusiastic 07:49 < Flannel> well, this particular topic was for our southern california one, since we still don't have anything planned. 07:50 < Grantbow> oops, not May 23rd, it changed to June, sorry. 07:50 < Flannel> wildintellect: Can we discuss those possibilities after the meeting then? doing something with LUGOD? 07:50 < wildintellect> our old coordinator lives in LA now, not sure if he's active with Installfests down there 07:50 < wildintellect> Flannel, sure 07:51 < sn9> i hope i can be in an installfest frame of mind again soon 07:51 < Grantbow> Flannel: what locations are you considering? 07:51 < Flannel> As far as our southern california one is concerned: 07:51 < rww> Is there a consensus among the NorCal folk that we're fine with participating in LUG installfests, rather than doing our own? 07:51 < Flannel> hmmm, alright. Lets take some steps back, and address what rww is saying. 07:51 < rww> because that seems like the best bet to me, especially since we have north and south of the bay covered :) 07:52 < Flannel> (particularly since theres so many new people tonight, (hi guys!)) 07:52 < sn9> wow, looks like the only person in this channel who has any real idea of how i am at installfests is lcafiero 07:52 < wildintellect> and davis/sacramento 07:52 < Flannel> There's obviously two schools of thought for doing LoCo activities -- create your own, or piggy back on someone else. 07:53 < sn9> Flannel: CA is big enough for both 07:53 < wildintellect> in this case I would agree piggyback with lugs in NorCal, maybe not so much since the density is lower is socal 07:53 < Flannel> the issue you run into when piggybacking is outlined in a few of those loco pages on the wiki 07:54 < jdeslip_> I would like to have one Berkeley if possible 07:54 < wildintellect> what about working with that project to refurbish machines for school on a large scale 07:54 < lcafiero> true, sn9, but that's okay. I think you're fine. 07:55 < wildintellect> that actually gets media coverage and an organized loco could offer a large pool of volunteers 07:55 < sn9> lcafiero: meh, but a little useless now 07:55 < rww> Flannel: I'm not saying we should take over their event, I'm saying we should contact them and ask if they maybe want CDs/materials/volunteers. It appears I phrased that badly. 07:55 < Flannel> wildintellect: there can be some legal issues with doing that 07:56 < Flannel> rww: I know, we just have to keep thigns in mind when we do that, and I'm attempting to do that, and respond to tangents at the same time :) 07:57 < Flannel> erm, where was I. 07:57 < Flannel> oh right, those pages outline stuff, 07:57 < Flannel> said stuff has to do with making sure that the LUGs don't feel like you're taking over, keeping the identities separate, etc. 07:57 < Flannel> They aren't necessarily problems, just things you have to keep in mind when organizing stuff like that. 07:57 < sn9> but there is often personnel overlap 07:57 < Grantbow> It can be done well working with other groups, but it has to be done carefully. Everyone wins if it's done well. 07:58 < Flannel> since if a LUG holds an installfest, and then you want to come in and say "Lets make it an Ubuntu installfest!" depending on how that's handled, problems can arise. 07:58 < Yasumoto_> Grantbow: I definitely agree 07:58 < vsayer> Hi! 07:58 < Yasumoto_> heya vsayer 07:59 < Grantbow> vsayer: welcome 07:59 < sn9> vsayer: 7, not 8 o'clock 07:59 < Flannel> So, no, there's absolutely nothing wrong with working with LUGs, especially since they seem so dense in the north, it's just something we need to make sure we're conscious of. 07:59 < vsayer> Yeah 07:59 < vsayer> I got really busy 07:59 < vsayer> Got some free time now 07:59 < Grantbow> Flannel +1 07:59 < vsayer> Hey Grant 07:59 < vsayer> It's Vivek 07:59 < wildintellect> ah yes, I in now way intended for the LUGOD IF to be Ubuntu specific, more that you are special guests 07:59 < vsayer> from BUUG 07:59 < Grantbow> hey - let's talk after the meeting finishes - one topic left. 07:59 < vsayer> sure 08:00 < Flannel> wildintellect: righ, that's what I wanted to discuss later. 08:00 < _dfox> hello vivek. 08:00 < vsayer> Hey Dave 08:00 < Flannel> so, as far as installfests in the north are concerned, lets... take stuff to IRC afterwards + ML. 08:00 < vsayer> Got ur email about posting...Thx 08:00 < Flannel> I just want to have a tiny brainstorming/concern stating/etc session with regard to the one we were planning in the south. 08:01 < Grantbow> Flannel +1 08:01 < Flannel> So, as Grant asked: Locations we're considering right now. 08:01 < Flannel> For our southern california installfest, we've always done them at Chapman, since its easy to get a room. 08:01 < Flannel> by the time we get to the installfest, Chapman will be on summer, so our pool of vict...I mean, guests, will be lower 08:01 < Flannel> at least, the ones already on campus 08:02 < Flannel> so, we were wondering about the possibility of moving it elsewhere, *or* figuring out good methods of advertising to bring in more people from elsewhere. 08:02 < vsayer> When does the meeting conclude? Can someone quickly catch me up? Thx 08:02 < Flannel> Since we'd like to have an installfest with more than one or two people there (who aren't us) 08:02 < Yasumoto_> we should look into OCLUG 08:02 < Flannel> vsayer: Logs will be posted afterwards, it's almost done. You've been here for hte entirety of this particular topic, feel free to contribute! 08:03 < wildintellect> Flannel, hows your contact with CS Clubs at UC, and CSU campuses? 08:03 < Flannel> wildintellect: that'd be Yasumoto_'s contacts. 08:03 * _dfox nods, svglug (san gabriel Valley, linuxchixla too - met some of those people at scale earlier in the year 08:03 < Flannel> ACM at my campus isn't ... too active, and we have no LUG 08:03 < Flannel> Yasumoto_: into advertising with them? or what? 08:04 < Yasumoto_> we can hold it at one of their meetings 08:04 < sn9> _dfox: did you stop by the LoCo booth at all at SCaLE? 08:04 < Flannel> I'd really like to not be preaching to the choir at our installfests. 08:04 < _dfox> sn9 I think I dropped in. 08:04 < Yasumoto_> I know the president of the UCI ACM, so I can ask him if we'd like to try to hold it there 08:04 < Flannel> Which is another thing regarding doing it wiht LUGs. Ubuntu isn't in competition with the other distros, we want to appeal to the general public, not feed from ourselves. 08:05 < Yasumoto_> OCLUG is held at CalState Fullerton 08:05 < sn9> _dfox: you likely met some of these folk, then 08:05 < Flannel> So, even if we piggy back on a LUG, we still need to advertise to the 'real world'. We just don't have to secure a room, etc. 08:05 < wildintellect> a large portion of installees are 1st time public 08:06 < Flannel> Actually, seeing how this discussion is going. 08:06 < sn9> still amazes me that most everybody was about the same height as me 08:06 < Flannel> I can tell we have a lot of knowledge, which would probably take an hour to discuss. So, lets move it to the ML, where we can all be eloquent and thorough? 08:06 < Flannel> Does that sound good to everyone? 08:06 < Yasumoto_> sounds good 08:07 < Grantbow> sounds good 08:07 < Flannel> Alright. Anyone opposed? 08:07 < sn9> i need to complete my gmail migration before i can really do that 08:07 < sn9> and for that, i need to borrow a fat pipe 08:07 < Flannel> Ok, so, before we conclude, anyone else have any other topics to bring up? 08:08 < sn9> uhm, well, denny's was fun... 08:08 < Flannel> sn9: After SCaLE? 08:08 * rww can't think of anything :) 08:08 < sn9> yes 08:08 < Flannel> Alright. With that, thank you all for coming, thank you to those of you who are still with us. Our next meeting is in two weeks, that's the 31st, 7pm.