10June13

Sunday, June 13th, 2010, 7:00pm (1900) PDT

Summary

  1. Announcements
    1. Geeknic in Los Gatos next week

    2. Linux User Group of Davis installfest (mentioned on the mailing list) went well with about 10 installs

    3. Ubuntu User Day is July 10th

    4. Fix-It Clinic on Tuesday is Berkeley; Grant will talk about Ubuntu there and forward details to the mailing list
    5. ZaReason installfest in Berkeley today went well

  2. Recap Lucid release events (San Francisco installfest)

    1. Elizabeth blogged about it; Christian posted photos

    2. Had about 20 people, Noisebridge were excellent hosts, Carnival parade outside prevented access to front door, though
  3. Best way to handle recurring event announcements (like weekly Ubuntu Hours, etc.)

    1. Ubuntu Hour events brought up the question of how to keep up visibility of recurring events without spamming the mailing list
    2. Current plan is to stagger announcements on the forums, microblogging, Planet Ubuntu, etc. to be weekly overall, but not more than every two weeks per medium.
    3. Discussion of how best to post to Ubuntu Forums (decided to make one sticky thread covering all the Hours)
  4. Discussion of Ubuntu Hours compared to LUGs, and scope of Ubuntu Hours
  5. Review of CaliforniaTeam/LaunchpadMembership

    1. Page to replace existing undocumented procedure
    2. Discussion of whether the benefits are worth the effort of renewing and signing up
    3. Discussion of automatic renewal (and whether it's feasible)
    4. Results: Robert to email mailing list asking for input, reword page to make it more obvious that giving out location isn't mandatory, continue discussion next meeting
  6. Discussion of CD distribution and the one-LoCo-per-state policy

Original Agenda

  1. Announcements
    1. Ubuntu User Days (July 10th)

  2. Recap Lucid Events (Installfest in San Francisco)
  3. Best way to handle recurring event announcements (like weekly Ubuntu Hours, etc.)
  4. Review first revision of Launchpad process page

Log

19:01:22 < rww> Welcome to our June 13th LoCo meeting, which I officially dub the "omg why is it so hot" meeting.
19:01:31 < rww> Today's agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10June13
19:02:20 < sn9> The current temperature in Mount Davidson, San Francisco, California is 59.5°F (6:28 PM PDT on June 13, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 49%. Dew Point: 41.0°F. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015.1 hPa (Steady).
19:02:32 < rww> We'll cover 1) Announcements, 2) recapping our 10.04 release events, 3) Discussing the handing of recurring announcements (like Ubuntu Hours), and 4) reviewing the Launchpad Process page first revision
19:02:42 < rww> Anyone have anything they'd like to add to the agenda?
19:03:42 < dragon> Geeknic announcement?
19:03:44 < rww> Alrighty, let's get started then. If you think of something in the middle of the meeting, poke me and we can add it to the end :)
19:04:03 < rww> 1) Announcements
19:04:11 < rww> dragon: you have one, from the sound of it?
19:04:21 < dragon> rww: I'll let you go ahead and make it.
19:04:36 < rww> I... don't know anything about it, so...
19:05:18 < dragon> A bunch of geeks are going to party by a lake next week in Los Gatos. Feel free to join: http://gidgetkitchen.org/wiki/Geeknic2
19:05:38 < grantbow> I'll do a quick announcement.  The lugod.org meeting went well with about 10 installs yesterday in Davis.  A good time was had by all.
19:05:56 < rww> grantbow: that's the one that got mentioned on the ML, right?
19:06:10 < grantbow> yes
19:06:15 < rww> awesome
19:07:11 < rww> Ubuntu User Day is happening on July 10th. Info's at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDays
19:07:41 < Flannel> It's a series of talks for users of Ubuntu, covering a wide variety of topics
19:08:16 < eps> Shall we start working on "stump the presenter" for "Ubuntu Equivalent Programs?"
19:08:35 < rww> Alright. Any other announcements?
19:08:52 < grantbow> Another event called a Fix-It Clinic is coming up Tuesday in Berkeley.  Details I will forward to the list.  It will be filmed and I'll be talking about Ubuntu as requested.
19:09:06 < sn9> eps: too easy
19:09:41 < grantbow> Oh, Installfest went well today in Berkeley at zareason.com.  Only one install but it was fun.
19:09:54 < rww> man, bay area events are really good at being on my work days ;P
19:10:12 < grantbow> that's all :-)
19:10:52 < rww> Alright! Next section :)
19:10:58 < rww> 2) Recap Lucid Events (Installfest in San Francisco) 
19:11:50 < grantbow> Others can jump in, but I think Leif and Noisebridge.net were excellent hosts.
19:12:25 < grantbow> The trouble was the Carnival parade out front preventing access to the front door.
19:12:35 < rww> pleia2 continued her awesome trend of blog writeups: http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=3018
19:12:50 < grantbow> yes, thanks rww
19:13:32 < grantbow> That says it better than I can.
19:13:45 < rww> Looks like we had about 20 people, and it went well :)
19:14:11 < rww> Anyone have anything they'd like to highlight as far as things that went particularly well, or that we should keep in mind for next time?
19:16:02 < rww> Alright, guess not. Christian put up photos at http://picasaweb.google.com/christian.einfeldt/LinuxLucidLynxInstallfest53010# ; I'll link the blog post and those photos on LucidRelease after the meeting.
19:16:54 < rww> Anyone have any final comments on this event, or any comments on our release events this time around in general?
19:17:52 < rww> okay, next topic!
19:17:54 < rww> 3) Best way to handle recurring event announcements (like weekly Ubuntu Hours, etc.) 
19:17:59 < rww> nhaines: do you want to take this?
19:18:27 < nhaines> rw sure.
19:18:45  * rww hands over the mic ;P
19:19:16  * rww afk: dinner time
19:19:27 < nhaines> Okay, so there are a couple of weekly Ubuntu Hour events starting out.
19:20:00 < nhaines> And promotion for the Lake Forest event, at least, brought up an interesting question--how to keep visibility up without spamming the mailing list.
19:20:27 < nhaines> So I wanted to hear feedback on whether anyone had any creative ideas that could prevent weekly emails for these kinds of eventss.
19:22:05 < nhaines> Right now my current plan is to do an announcement every two weeks.
19:22:41 < grantbow> I guess this ties back to the announcements I sent out for the Noisebridge Lucid installfest.
19:23:08 < nhaines> Between a couple of local mailing lists, Planet Ubuntu, the forums, and microblogging, I should be able to stagger announcements to be weekly, but not appear on any one medium more than every two weeks.
19:23:12 < ubuntu_> I'd like to see these announcements posted on the ubuntu forums too.  You'd never know about any of them if you didn't come here or get the mailing list.
19:23:25 < grantbow> I heard back from the Linux communities of svlug.org and lugod.org that having an Ubuntu only event offended them, feedback I disagreed with.
19:23:48 < rww> ubuntu_: That's a good idea; I can start doing that. Would you recommend making a sticky thread and putting them all in there, or making a new thread for each event?
19:23:50 < Flannel> ubuntu_: This past Ubuntu Hour was posted in the forums
19:23:51 < nhaines> ubuntu_: the last Ubuntu Hour announcement was posted on the forums.  :)
19:23:54 < akk> grantbow: That was only a couple of people. Not the whole list.
19:23:59 < Flannel> ubuntu_: and that's something we intend to do, yes.
19:24:03 < rww> or continue doing that, from the sound of it ;P
19:24:06 < grantbow> rww and I do something similar to an Ubuntu Hour and call it dvlug.org.  We have our own mail list and web page.
19:24:08 < nhaines> ubuntu_: but it was something I had overlooked for the first week.
19:24:09 < ubuntu_> yes, sticky thread!
19:24:27 < Flannel> ubuntu_: Yeah, I haven't gotten in there with my forum-fu yet to sticky it
19:25:02 < Flannel> That thread can be used for all Ubuntu Hours too, and if we do decide to do weekly emails (or biweekly, or whatnot) we can roll all of the UHs together to cut down on it
19:25:15 < rww> One good thing about doing it in the forums (as well as anywhere else) is that forum people can subscribe to thread updates via email.
19:25:17 < Flannel> since they've all got similar information, just locations/times/etc
19:25:38 < ubuntu_> rww: maybe group them so that there aren't scads of them, but enough to reflect the various kinds of events.
19:25:48 < grantbow> nhaines: how is an Ubuntu Hour different from a Linux User Group?
19:26:03 < rww> ubuntu_: makes sense :)
19:26:32 < nhaines> grantbow: they're small, informal, hour-long meetings that hope to attact non-Linux user attention to Ubuntu.
19:26:53 < nhaines> So "in almost every way" is probably what I'd say.
19:27:03 < grantbow> some LUGs run that way
19:27:07 < Flannel> grantbow: I would think that Ubuntu Hours' patrons would only attend a couple of weeks
19:27:12  * eps wonders why wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHours doesn't redirect to wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
19:27:14 < grantbow> "in almost no way" to some LUGs
19:27:23 < ubuntu_> grantbow: I can see why the LUGs would be offended, but I think Ubuntu is user-friendly in such a different way, we should go ahead with them.
19:27:29 < akk> Are the Ubuntu hours also described on the u-c website? I'm reading all this wondering where these Ubuntu hours are, having not seen any announcements.
19:27:53 < nhaines> akk: I've announced the Lake Forest hour on Planet Ubuntu, the ML, and the forums.
19:28:21 < nhaines> I've also floated the idea a couple times during meetings.
19:28:24 < akk> I think I did see lake forest -- is that the only one so far?
19:28:25 < grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour
19:28:33 < Flannel> akk: No, not on our wiki specifically, jsut the announcements of actual instances of them
19:28:34 < rww> akk: yeah
19:28:34 < nhaines> akk: I think markdude held one or two as well.
19:28:36 < Flannel> akk: yeah
19:28:40 < rww> oh, yeah, plus Mark's
19:28:54 < akk> Nobody is going to look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour if they're looking for local events.
19:29:04 < ubuntu_> grantbow: Maybe the LUGs can see it as an entry path to Linux.  Some LUGgers will embrace that, others will scoff, but its a smart idea imo.
19:29:12 < nhaines> That reminds me, I have to try and get it up on the LoCo directory.
19:29:17 < rww> nhaines: would making CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Hour or something make sense?
19:29:43 < nhaines> rww: not sure about that yet.  But maybe!
19:29:53 < nhaines> I really would like to see more LoCo members hosting these meetings.
19:29:55 < grantbow> are Fedora users welcome at Ubuntu Hour? Slackware?
19:30:00 < Flannel> rww: A page where we could list them to get some sort of handle on them would be a good idea.
19:30:10 < rww> grantbow: if they're interested in promoting Ubuntu to the general public, sure
19:30:14 < nhaines> grantbow: anyone is welcome at Ubuntu Hour, but it's only for discussing Ubuntu.
19:31:04 < grantbow> Is an Ubuntu Hour a regional team meeting?
19:31:10 < Flannel> grantbow: No
19:31:42 < grantbow> what would be different?
19:31:48 < Flannel> grantbow: From what?
19:31:49 < rww> Alrighty, so. We're going to keep a forum thread updated with Ubuntu Hour announcements, and probably create a wiki page for them. What do we want to do as far as social networking and email go?
19:32:07 < Flannel> grantbow: can this topic wait?  We're getting sidetracked I think.
19:32:08 < rww> grantbow: meetings aren't for advocacy purposes, and Ubuntu Hours aren't for discussing LoCo business.
19:32:28 < akk> Please do post to the mailing list too, at least every now and then, if there are really weekly Hours starting up somewhere (as stated at the beginning of this thread).
19:32:33 < nhaines> rww: email should be biweekly (every two weeks) for now, and I think we could microblog about it weekly.
19:32:34 < grantbow> I'm trying to understand the role of Ubuntu Hours.
19:32:47 < rww> grantbow: have you read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Hour ?
19:32:48 < nhaines> akk: every two weeks, which will be a change from the current every week.
19:33:35 < grantbow> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto says one goal of a LoCo is "Digital Freedom Activism" - Does excluding Fedora promote that goal?
19:33:39 < nhaines> Okay, so that's pretty good feedback about event announcements.  Let's continue to refine that as we see how things are accepted.
19:33:46 < grantbow> rww: yes
19:34:14 < nhaines> The last item on our agenda is a review of our Launchpad team page and its membership list.
19:34:42 < nhaines> We've never had a good idea of what it means to be a "member", and we're starting to work on that.
19:35:01 < grantbow> I object to bi-weekly announcements of Ubuntu Hours.
19:35:13 < nhaines> grantbow: on what grounds?
19:35:13 < Flannel> More specifically, this is for membership for the launchpad page, and that's it.
19:35:45 < akk> grantbow: How about a single biweekly posting listing all California Ubuntu Hours (assuming there's eventually more than one)?
19:35:47 < ubuntu_> grantbow: If I were running one I'd be okay w/ having CDs of other distros around and if people want to discuss offline okay, but focus on Ubuntu
19:35:55 < grantbow> It's an Ubuntu only LUG with another name and is against the goal of promoting all FOSS projects.
19:35:55 < rww> akk: that's what I assumed it meant..
19:36:18 < nhaines> grantbow: we don't have a goal of promoting all FOSS projects, just Ubuntu.
19:36:22 < Flannel> grantbow: It's not a LUG.
19:36:25 < akk> "Summary of Ubuntu events in California for the upcoming week."
19:36:29 < nhaines> Besides, there are no members, and it's not a LUG.
19:36:34 < grantbow> nhaines: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
19:36:47 < nhaines> grantbow: cite specific examples please.
19:37:03 < grantbow> Flannel: the discussion of how it is different was truncated
19:37:13 < ubuntu_> grantbow: I'd downplay the rub w/ other distros.  Its all good.  But we need to put the Ubuntu name into public's consciousness.
19:37:17 < rww> grantbow: If you have a problem with Ubuntu Hours, I would recommend taking it up in a more general channel like #ubuntu-locoteams or loco-contacts.
19:37:40  * sn9 is still wondering who ubuntu_ is
19:37:46 < grantbow> rww: we are not talking about all Ubuntu Hours, just California ones.
19:37:55 < ubuntu_> sn9: sorry, its nUboon2Age
19:38:01 < sn9> ah, ok
19:38:08 < rww> grantbow: The ones elsewhere function exactly the same way.
19:38:30 < rww> the page itself says "We are trying to promote Ubuntu to the general public". They're called "Ubuntu Hours". It seems self-evident to me that they're for Ubuntu advocacy.
19:38:31 < ubuntu_> grantbow: Just because we are promoting Ubuntu doesn't say we have to knock other distros.
19:38:41 < nhaines> The agenda item was also not specifically about Ubuntu Hour, but all frequently recurring event announcements.
19:39:07 < grantbow> nhaines: what about LUG events with regular Ubuntu California member attendees?
19:39:24 < grantbow> should they be announced each time too?
19:39:24 < nhaines> grantbow: what about them?
19:39:31 < rww> Now, if you would like to go into this further, since we're getting increasingly offtopic, we can add it to the end of the agenda and discuss it when our other topics are done.
19:39:33 < grantbow> or every other time?
19:40:30 < nhaines> I imagine it would depend on the frequency of the event.
19:40:38 < Flannel> lets move on and come back
19:40:43 < ubuntu_> I like using the name ubuntu because we need to get the name out there.
19:40:52 < grantbow> have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UserGroupContacts/Groups  ?
19:41:13 < nhaines> But I think the idea of a 2-week minimum threshold with staggering is a good one, with a lesser limit on microblogging.
19:41:27 < nhaines> Okay, so moving on, we're looking out our Launchpad team membership.
19:41:35 < nhaines> s/out/at/
19:41:48 < grantbow> I see this as a personal event using team resources
19:42:01 < Flannel> grantbow: Please stop.  We're on another agenda item currently.
19:42:14  * grantbow moves on.
19:42:16 < nhaines> Currently, the plan is to use the Launchpad list to keep track of interested users around California.
19:42:56 < nhaines> It's very common that people find us in Launchpad, sign up, and then... nothing happens.
19:43:13 < eps> Is something supposed to happen?
19:43:14 < grantbow> It would be nice to see the current process documented rather than just the proposal.
19:43:24 < nhaines> So we'd like to do things.  First, we'd like to make the list more useful for us.
19:43:45 < nhaines> Second, we'd like to make sure that the LP page is a strong entry point for interested new Ubuntu users and members.
19:44:13 < Flannel> grantbow: current process has no renewal, so we've accumulated people who may not be interested any longer, this is an attempt to curb that, so our numbers are more accurate
19:44:30 < ubuntu_> nhaines: something that would be cool is to have it show where people are (CA being so huge) so that people close can connect.
19:44:39 < nhaines> ubuntu_: It does that.  :)
19:44:51 < rww> ubuntu_: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california/+map :)
19:44:55 < nhaines> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/LaunchpadMembership
19:45:00 < ubuntu_> thanks!
19:45:37 < nhaines> This is what we think will help us make the list useful as well as help bring people into the LoCo.
19:45:50 < eps> I think it will drive people away.
19:45:57 < nhaines> Has anyone had a chance to read it yet?  Does anyone have any comments?
19:46:05 < nhaines> eps: please explain your thoughts on that.
19:46:42 < grantbow> nhaines: who is we?
19:47:06 < rww> grantbow: nhaines, Flannel, and I. i.e., the people with administrative access on ~ubuntu-california
19:47:07 < Flannel> grantbow: This LoCo.  We've discussed it in the past, and more recently informally too.
19:47:09 < eps> You're instituting a bureaucratic procedure that changes current procedure, and with little or no perceivable benefit.
19:47:22 < nhaines> eps: there is no current procedure.
19:47:23 < rww> Based off of discussions in channel over the years, our experience, and common sense.
19:47:24 < eps> Is the point of this supposed to be a "dead man's switch?"
19:47:30 < Flannel> eps: The big change is the renewal, which doesn't hurt
19:47:37 < nhaines> eps: yes.
19:47:43 < grantbow> nhaines: there is a de facto procedure
19:47:46 < Flannel> eps: People don't actively "leave" groups hwen they fade away, this sets a time-out to help solve that
19:47:47 < eps> Flannel: yes, it does. It makes people jump through hoops.
19:47:53 < Flannel> eps: Which hoops?
19:48:05 < ubuntu_> nhaines: looking at those links, it doesn't show people very easily where folks are.  I was thinking of it just breaking down into geographical subsections.
19:48:13 < nhaines> Right now, people click a button on Launchpad, sign up, and are then never heard from again.
19:48:15 < Flannel> eps: The point of the initial contact isn't to be a hoop, this might be a point that needs polishing as far as documentation is concerned
19:48:18 < eps> Renewal is a concept that applies to dues-collecting organizations.
19:48:20 < nhaines> And are on the list forever and ever.
19:48:30 < eps> We aren't taking people's money. Not directly, anyway.
19:48:39 < Flannel> eps: Ubuntu Members also go through renewal, there aren't dues there.
19:48:58 < akk> I just had to renew my account on a free site that I use occasionally but rarely. It was a bit annoying.
19:49:04 < Flannel> eps: Without that time-out, we don't have a sane recourse for removing people after a timeframe
19:49:07 < nhaines> eps: as described, after two months, and then once a year after that, users will get an email saing "Are you still around?"
19:49:16 < akk> I was thinking it would be no problem for LP, until I remembered how annoyed I was by this other site requiring renewal.
19:49:28 < sn9> i was annoyed by having to renew LoCo membership when others didn't
19:49:34 < Flannel> akk: It's two button clicks, one in the email, the other to say "yes, renew me"
19:49:43 < grantbow> Why two months and then one year?  Why not one year immediately?
19:49:53 < eps> If the objective is to catch inactivity, evidence of activity (e.g. participation in _this_ meeting) should be sufficient for automatic renewal.
19:50:00 < akk> Flannel: On the other site, I had to log in (find my passwd), then findi the place to click to renew.
19:50:15 < akk> Flannel: Probably the same on LP if they hadn't logged in in a long time?
19:50:18 < grantbow> eps: how can that be automated?
19:50:24 < Flannel> grantbow: infant mortality.  Many people cruise around, say "oh, this looks good", and then after that day, fall out of interest.  So, having a two-month thing would provide two benefits:
19:50:35 < rww> sn9: one of the reasons for documenting and implementing this process is that the current system is extremely weird because we used to have renewals set and now don't
19:51:03 < eps> grantbow: I guess you'd need to have a mapping from IRC nicks to LP IDs.
19:51:13 < Flannel> grantbow: #1, it can remind them that they're in it, and they might become interested again, and another, if they don't dcide they're interested itll remove them earlier rather than later
19:51:31 < rww> another being that the current criteria for whether to approve people joining are so vague that I've been doing it for months and still don't have a handle on them. Having documented, objective criteria will help a lot.
19:51:35 < grantbow> eps: Lots of work.  Volunteering?  ;-)
19:51:39 < Flannel> akk: They might have to remember their login, but I don't know.  I think I've only logged into LP three times in as many years
19:51:43 < akk> (Also it's hard to navigate anywhere on LP ... I'm currently trying to figure out how to see my memberships so I can make sure I'm still in u-c)
19:51:55 < Flannel> akk: I can help you with that later if you'd like
19:51:58 < nhaines> akk: the email takes you directly to the right page, and displays only the link.
19:52:00 < grantbow> rww: +1
19:52:11 < eps> Why not have a "permanent" or "lifetime" membership level?
19:52:26 < nhaines> eps: under what criteria?
19:52:35 < eps> I nominate Jono. :-)
19:52:40 < Flannel> eps: Because then we get to our current situation, where our LP numbers dont represent our actual numbers
19:53:12 < grantbow> Why was renewal turned off?
19:53:19 < eps> How have (have?) other LoCos addressed this issue?
19:53:25 < rww> grantbow: one sec, I'll pull the meeting log for you
19:53:34 < Flannel> eps: Similarly, renewal annually or whatnot, etc.
19:53:35 < rww> I note that renewal really isn't uncommon on Launchpad. All of the IRC teams do it, Ubuntu Members do it, etc.
19:53:59 < eps> I suspect our numbers are "reliable" but not "valid" (to use survey terminology), and probably in line with what other groups are seeing.
19:54:26 < eps> If we make this change, we'll end up being undercounted, and that could have negative consequences.
19:54:46 < rww> grantbow: meh, can't find it. I'll let Flannel answer, since he's the one who did it ;P
19:54:56 < Flannel> eps: I don't think that'll be a large percentage
19:55:05 < Flannel> rww: What? oh, renewal email? give me a minute, I'll pastebin.
19:55:15 < rww> Flannel: no, why we turned renewals off in the first place
19:55:20 < grantbow> eps: what consequences will undercounting have?
19:56:25 < eps> grantbow: I don't know. Reducing the number of Ubuntu CDs we're sent, there'll be a bunch of squabbling over who should get them, and they'll all end up in southern California. Oh wait, that's happening already.
19:56:36 < sn9> lol
19:56:52 < rww> eps: All approved LoCos get the same Ubuntu CD package with the same amount of CDs.
19:56:58 < grantbow> rww, Flannel: found the meeting summaries at the end of 2007 and probably start of 2008
19:57:08 < Flannel> grantbow: http://paste.ubuntu.com/449476/
19:57:33 < wiretapped> has a north/south split ever been proposed?
19:57:33 < rww> Flannel: 1955 < rww> Flannel: no, why we turned renewals off in the first place
19:57:34 < eps> yeah, yeah, we're entitled to just as many as Rhode Island.
19:57:41  * wiretapped just got here, sorry
19:57:53  * akk actually got a lucid CD recently! In Brussels, haven't seen one here yet. :)
19:57:55 < grantbow> 7 days warning? any way to increase that number?
19:57:57 < nhaines> wiretapped: LoCos are strictly per-country, with an exception for the US.
19:58:02 < Flannel> grantbow: I don't believe so.
19:58:06 < wiretapped> o i c
19:58:18 < Flannel> eps: There were CDs sent, and you had that explained to you last meeting.
19:58:28 < nhaines> wiretapped: oh, and some regional or city teams are grandfathered in, of course.
19:58:40 < Flannel> rww: oh
19:58:55 < ubuntu_> wiretapped: even if not split, an acknowledgement of the challenges distance brings is vital to making this work.
19:58:55 < grantbow> akk: Scott Ritchie got some from Canonical already.
19:59:31 < rww> I think we're getting a little offtopic, again...
19:59:39 < Flannel> grantbow: When the LoCo entered its most recent implementation, we never gave anyone expiries so we could figure out our policy on them.  Everyone who has an expiration date is from before.
20:00:17 < rww> in other words, that page is a candidate for "most delayed meeting action item", I guess ;P
20:00:51 < Flannel> rww: Considering we came to the conclusion that renewals and stuff were a good idea like a year ago, yeah.
20:01:21 < pleia2> renewals are nice, they remind people that they're subscribed to a thing, may have them have a look at the project again
20:01:57 < pleia2> (if you're actively involved hitting the "renew" button shouldn't be a hurdle)
20:02:55 < grantbow> Seven days seems a bit quick but I'm OK with renewals in general.  I haven't finished reading this policy page yet.
20:03:00 < eps> Imagine if domain name registration worked under these terms. That would be a hoot.
20:03:06 < pleia2> grantbow: unfortunately that's all launchpad offers
20:03:13  * grantbow nods
20:03:23 < pleia2> it works ok for other teams, if you fall off you just nudge an admin, it hasn't been a big deal for other teams
20:03:24 < rww> eps: It does. Sardonic comments really aren't helping, and I'd appreciate it if they stopped.
20:03:32 < nhaines> So what we're looking for is input on wording and some polish work.
20:03:52 < Flannel> yeah, if you expire it won't be a big deal to get back in if you're on vacation for a fewweeks or whatever.
20:04:23 < nhaines> What I'd like to see is that by next meeting it's ready to go and we can implement the page.
20:04:28 < grantbow> +1 renewals
20:04:51 < wiretapped> does lp keep track of expired memberships?
20:04:52 < nhaines> So there's no need to respond right now during this meeting, but please do post on the mailing list with any suggestions.
20:04:57 < Flannel> wiretapped: Yeah
20:05:16 < rww> wiretapped: yes, and LP emails team administrators about pretty much everything, so we'll notice if it happens.
20:05:23 < pleia2> wiretapped: on the bottom of the +members page there is a list of expired members
20:05:43 < wiretapped> nice... yeah i don't see any downside then
20:06:26 < Flannel> So, take a look at that document, if there's any wording on there that's awkward, or you think could be made better, be sure to make it known :)
20:07:16 < rww> I can email the mailing list asking for the same, to make sure everyone gets a chance to look at it.
20:07:27 < Flannel> rww: That'd be good
20:07:28 < nhaines> rww: might be a good idea.
20:07:31 < rww> might also get some of the people on the list and not in LP to subscribe, who knows :)
20:07:38 < rww> s/subscribe/join
20:07:39 < pleia2> Flannel: I'd be careful with "locations" - I know it's a loco and location is important, and while many of us are fine with telling others where they are, some volunteers to the group may not be immediately comfortable sharing this information
20:07:51 < nhaines> pleia2: we spent a lot of time worrying about that.
20:07:56 < pleia2> nhaines: ok
20:08:02 < pleia2> it came up with the new york loco, some people wouldn't join because they didn't want to disclose their location
20:08:15 < nhaines> And we'd like to make it as clear as possible that we just want a vague description or general idea.
20:08:23  * pleia2 nods
20:08:23 < Flannel> pleia2: Yeah, I suggested we mention "county-level is fine" or something like that, got told I was being overly specific.  So yeah, that's definately something I plan on looking at.
20:08:28 < akk> pleia2: I'm not sure where it's getting my location, but it's not right.
20:08:29 < rww> pleia2: The intention of that sentence is "give us whatever you're comfortable with, and not giving anything is okay".
20:08:53 < nhaines> So that's a perfect example of what kind of polish we're hoping for.
20:08:56 < Flannel> actually, that paragraph is probably the one I'm going to look at the most, since setting a tone is important
20:08:56 < pleia2> rww: right, I'm just suggesting maybe the sentence should say that then
20:09:12 < rww> akk: There's a "Set location and timezone" link at the bottom of your launchpad page
20:09:30 < nhaines> Okay, so that's pretty much it for this meeting.
20:09:58 < ubuntu_> pleia2: yes, I'd be happy with very general 'locations' like areas.  I'm in the San Jose Bay Area. :-)
20:10:00 < rww> pleia2: I'll poke at it some more, and mention it on ML too.
20:10:07 < nhaines> Are there any additional topics that need to be discussed?
20:10:12 < pleia2> rww: thanks, will do :)
20:10:27 < wiretapped> USA! USA! USA!
20:10:30  * wiretapped ducks
20:10:31 < rww> pleia2: I meant "I'll mention it...", but either way :D
20:10:33 < Flannel> wiretapped: Hah :)
20:10:40 < pleia2> rww: oh ok
20:10:47 < Flannel> wiretapped: Next match is Thursday, or Friday, isn't it?
20:11:02 < wiretapped> i actually have no idea
20:11:08 < wiretapped> :)
20:11:09 < rww> grantbow: did you want to discuss the Ubuntu Hour stuff some more?
20:11:20 < rww> wiretapped: UK only let you draw so you wouldn't feel bad :(
20:11:38 < grantbow> rww: I expressed what was on my mind.
20:11:44 < rww> alright
20:11:48 < pleia2> rww: lol
20:11:52 < nhaines> Okay, so the next meeting is on June 27th, 2010 and we hope to see everyone there.  :)
20:11:57 < Flannel> 7pm!
20:12:40 < Flannel> Thank you all for coming.  Refreshments are in the back.

CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/10June13 (last edited 2010-08-03 20:35:56 by rww)