1 [16:00] <dpm> Hi everyone!
   2 [16:01] <dpm> Welcome to this new Ubuntu Translations meeting
   3 [16:01] <dpm> let's wait a couple of minutes for people to turn up...
   4 [16:03] <kelemengabor> o/
   5 [16:03] <dpm> hey :)
   6 [16:04] <dpm> let's see who's there :)
   7 [16:04] <henninge> me
   8 [16:04] <etali> Hi, that worked to wake me up :)
   9 [16:04] <dpm> cool :)
  10 [16:04] <Destine> dpm, Hi!
  11 [16:04] <dpm> whoah, people is coming in masses now... :)
  12 [16:05] <dpm> I'll have to take note that pinging really works...
  13 [16:05] <Destine> dpm, yes... it works!
  14 [16:05]  * Blue-Omega_ highlights dpm back
  15 [16:05] <dpm> :-)
  16 [16:05] <mcas> o/
  17 [16:06] <TomaszD> g'day
  18 [16:06] <Blue-Omega_> you too
  19 [16:07] <dpm> hey everyone, thanks for coming. Let's get started, shall we?
  20 [16:07] <Destine> dpm ok.
  21 [16:07] <dpm> So here's the agenda for today:
  22 [16:07] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2010-04-22
  23 [16:07] <dpm> As I said, I'd like to concentrate on the UDS sessions on translations today. And here's a preliminary list:
  24 [16:08] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/UDS
  25 [16:08] <dpm> I'd just like to hear what you think, and let everyone propose sessions if they'd like to.
  26 [16:08] <dpm> You'll see in the page that there is also a "Final list section".
  27 [16:08] <dpm>  That's just in case we end up with a big list and there is no time to run all sessions
  28 [16:09] <dpm> (or to avoid us really quickly burning out ;)
  29 [16:09] <kelemengabor> how many sessions can we have in total?
  30 [16:09] <dpm> kelemengabor, there is no set limit, we've got enough space, I think
  31 [16:10] <dpm> it's just a matter of having a good set and not exceedingly many
  32 [16:10] <dpm> but there's room for proposing more
  33 [16:11] <kelemengabor> cool, I have a few problems to discuss :)
  34 [16:11] <dpm> I cannot tell you exactly "we've got e.g. 15 slots"
  35 [16:11] <dpm> but I can tell you: "we probably have enough"
  36 [16:11] <dpm> anyway,
  37 [16:11] <dpm> so if the list gets really big, some might go to the "Deferred" section for another UDS or another method of discussion (e.g. on the mailing list, on a meeting, etc.)
  38 [16:12] <dpm> Oh, and btw, I'll obviously be attending, ArneGoetje from the Desktop team will be as well, and henninge from the Launchpad Translations team.
  39 [16:12] <dpm> He'll be the only representative of the Rosetta team this time.
  40 [16:12] <dpm> so don't be too hard on him ;)
  41 [16:12]  * henninge shivers
  42 [16:13]  * dpm hugs henninge :)
  43 [16:13] <dpm> I know some of you are attending as well, but I might not know all. Who else is coming?
  44 [16:13]  * henninge feels better ;)
  45 [16:13] <etali> Are all sessions streamed, or just the "main" ones?  (Not going, but hoping to follow along remotely)
  46 [16:13]  * kelemengabor will be there
  47 [16:13] <dpm> cool :)
  48 [16:14] <dpm> etali, all sessions' voice is streamed, and we've got IRC in all rooms, so it's very easy to participate remotely. In fact...
  49 [16:14] <Destine> dpm, got declined...
  50 [16:14] <dpm> For those not attending but still interested in participating, you can always remotely be there on IRC. Sound for all the sessions is streamed for everyone to listen in, and on every UDS rooom there are projectors showing the IRC conversations for everyone in the room to see.
  51 [16:15] <dpm> Destine, sorry to hear that, but there's always a next UDS, so don't worry
  52 [16:15] <dpm> Jorge Castro is going to run a talk on how to participate remotely in UDS next Friday:
  53 [16:15] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
  54 [16:15] <henninge> dpm: there is this but I am not sure it will fill a session. https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/launchpad-translator-communication
  55 [16:15] <Destine> dpm, sure, I am still working...
  56 [16:15] <etali> dpm, every room?  That's cool.  Thanks.
  57 [16:16] <henninge> dpm: without the "fuzzy" subject, though.
  58 [16:16] <dpm> henninge, yeah, let's start with the sessions. I can start with a quick review of the existing topics, or either ellaborate more on any where you might have questions, or let everyone who's got any proposal to start. I'm flexible, what do you guys prefer?
  59 [16:17] <Destine> +1 for doing the existing ones first.
  60 [16:17] <henninge> yes, of course.
  61 [16:18] <dpm> ok, let's try to do this quickly, then
  62 [16:18] <dpm> = Translations community roundtable =
  63 [16:19] <dpm> the name says it all. roundtable session to discuss anything that doesn't need a full session
  64 [16:19] <dpm> feel free to add any bullet points with topics on the wiki page
  65 [16:19] <dpm> = Launchpad Translations roundtable =
  66 [16:20] <dpm> Another unstructured session. I thought henninge could gave us an update of the latest developments in LP
  67 [16:20] <henninge> dpm: sure, I can do that.
  68 [16:20] <dpm> and we can give him feedback on the usage of LP translations
  69 [16:20] <dpm> cool :)
  70 [16:20] <henninge> also, the topic from the blueprint could simply go in here
  71 [16:20] <dpm> ah, good point
  72 [16:21] <dpm> = Translations Community Advocacy =
  73 [16:21] <dpm> a session to discuss how to promote the Ubuntu translations project
  74 [16:22] <dpm> let it grow and get more contributors for all languages
  75 [16:22] <dpm> = Translations Community Learning Content =
  76 [16:22] <dpm> a session to discuss the creation of documentation and other media (e.g. screencasts, etc.) on how to get started translating Ubuntu
  77 [16:23] <dpm> and basically ease the entry barrier
  78 [16:23] <dpm> screencasts could for example be made and used for all teams
  79 [16:23] <dpm> e.g. replacing the sound track
  80 [16:23] <dpm> = Translations Community Events =
  81 [16:23] <dpm> this is related to the other two
  82 [16:23] <Destine> Translations Community Learning Content. This one sounds interesting.
  83 [16:24] <dpm> :)
  84 [16:24] <dpm> discuss a series of translation events to help translating Ubuntu throughout the cycle
  85 [16:24] <dpm> in addition to the Ubuntu Global Jam, etc
  86 [16:24] <dpm> = Extend the translations reporting site =
  87 [16:25] <dpm> that's about better reporting the translations stats for Ubuntu as a distro
  88 [16:25] <dpm> I started last cycle on that, and I'd like to improve this, perhaps with the use of a LP Translations Reporting API
  89 [16:26] <dpm> btw, it's taken longer this time, but I've calculated the stats for lucid, I'll announce them soon on the ML
  90 [16:26] <dpm> = Translation teams outreach =
  91 [16:27] <dpm> I'd like to contact all translation teams and know more about them and see if they need help in any areas. That's also about communication. Some teams might not know what's going on and that there is a global mailing list and other communication resources
  92 [16:27] <dpm> this might be in the form of a survey to make it easier, but I still don't know
  93 [16:27] <dpm> = Launchpad Translations Reporting API =
  94 [16:28] <dpm> we've got a spec for accessing translation data through launchpadlib
  95 [16:28] <dpm> already, and adiroiban has even started working on it
  96 [16:29] <dpm> https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/Specs/ReportingAPI
  97 [16:29] <dpm> I'd like to discuss how this can be implemented, current status, etc.
  98 [16:29] <dpm> and get other people involved if they want to become the next LP superheroes :)
  99 [16:30] <dpm> = Developer education on localization =
 100 [16:30] <freeflying> dpm: sorry, late
 101 [16:30] <dpm> I'm still not sure if I'll schedule a session for this one
 102 [16:30] <dpm> freeflying, no worries :)
 103 [16:31] <dpm> all the i18n documentation is spread around, and if you add that with the Ubuntu infrastructure, langpacks, etc. it's difficult to understand everything
 104 [16:31] <dpm> so I'd like to have a development resource to collect all that
 105 [16:31] <dpm> This is about expanding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation
 106 [16:31] <dpm> = Universe is translatable in Launchpad =
 107 [16:31] <dpm> ah, an interesting one... :)
 108 [16:32] <freeflying> dpm: thats great, we need some attention on i18n from development perspective
 109 [16:32] <dpm> freeflying, yeah, that's been lacking for some time, and I hopefully can dedicate some time to it next cycle
 110 [16:32] <dpm> anyway,
 111 [16:33] <dpm> I'd like to discuss if this would be technically possible. I'm told that from the LP translations side, this wouldn't be much of an issue, but we'd have to see how we'd implement this in language packs, etc
 112 [16:33] <dpm> so I'd simply like to see the options
 113 [16:34] <freeflying> dpm: for i18n, Arne seems will have seesions
 114 [16:34] <dpm> So that was it. Questions on any of these, or would you like to start with proposing ideas
 115 [16:34] <dpm> )
 116 [16:34] <dpm> ?
 117 [16:34] <dpm> freeflying, ArneGoetje, feel free to speak up or to add the sessions to the wiki page
 118 [16:35] <kelemengabor> to me, all of these make sense, so they are worth a bit of time to discuss
 119 [16:35] <dpm> cool, I'm glad to hear that :)
 120 [16:36] <henninge> dpm: same feeling from me
 121 [16:36] <dpm> cool
 122 [16:37] <kelemengabor> especially the developer education... I met in this cycle with the "stop nagging me" attitude from some developers in bugreports, if we could do anything to change that... :)
 123 [16:38] <ivarela> hi to all
 124 [16:38] <dpm> yeah, that's a good point
 125 [16:38] <dpm> bones ivarela, it seems you guys are getting famous :) -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2022
 126 [16:38] <ivarela> yes, I saw it yesterday (marcos told me)
 127 [16:38] <dpm> awesome
 128 [16:39] <ivarela> thank you very much ;)
 129 [16:39] <kelemengabor> also, I'd like to propose a session about better, say "proactive" bug detection and shortening the average lifespan of bugs
 130 [16:40] <kelemengabor> it's quite annoying to that we do not even try to reduce the number of translation problems to 0
 131 [16:41] <kelemengabor> that is, we often detect bugs only when it's too late
 132 [16:41] <dpm> kelemengabor, that's a good idea, especially because we tend to get a lot shortly before release, and often there is no much time to squash them all
 133 [16:41] <dpm> kelemengabor, do you think you could add it to the wiki page?
 134 [16:42] <dpm> with a short description, or bullet points, etc?
 135 [16:42] <kelemengabor> and there are several cases when nobody listens to the reports, thus they get not fixed for several releases...
 136 === keffie_jayx_ is now known as effie_jayx
 137 [16:43] <kelemengabor> sure
 138 [16:44] <dpm> cool, any other things?
 139 [16:44] <dpm> anyway, so I understand that everyone is happy with the current set and wouldn't like to add more? If so, feel free to speak up here, on the mailing list or just add them to the wiki
 140 [16:45] <kelemengabor> also, there it would be great if we could agree on a langpack update schedule: predicatable translation updates could help scheduling work
 141 [16:46] <kelemengabor> and not only langpacks, but DDTP translations, (k)ubuntu-docs too
 142 [16:47] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah. I'll add that one. I'd like to review the way we do it now. We can discuss all of those and perhaps sync'ed updates. Even on-demand updates
 143 [16:47] <kelemengabor> this means also extending a bit the definition of "supported release": not only bug fixes, but translation updates too
 144 [16:47] <dpm> We discussed that on the UDS in Barcelona, but I must admit that not much have changed
 145 [16:47] <dpm> so It hink it's a good time to review it
 146 [16:48] <kelemengabor> oh sure, on-demand updates is something I'd also like to see: who knows better than me that I just fixed a "paperbag" bug? :D
 147 [16:49] <dpm> kelemengabor, I feel like giving you work today :P, do you think you could add also the langpack and translation updates on the wiki page?
 148 [16:49] <dpm> the sessions, I mean :)
 149 [16:49] <kelemengabor> I'll try :)
 150 [16:49] <dpm> thanks a lot :)
 151 [16:50] <kelemengabor> I'm not sure if it's worth a session, but I'd like to talk about the possibility of a centralized, all langugage speaking help.ubuntu.com too
 152 [16:52] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, that's a good point too. But for that to move forward, we need someone from the docs team to be there too (even remotely). We discussed that on the last UDS, but again (and that's probably my fault for not pushing it more), we didn't see any change there
 153 [16:52] <kelemengabor> it may make sense to let teams to create local websites as they wish, to fit their needs etc, but saying them to duplicate the infrastructure of help.ubuntu.com makes no sense to me: you can simply not build an arbitrary site around that content, so why not have it centralized?
 154 [16:52] <dpm> I'll try to e-mail the docs list today or tomorrow to see whether someone from the docs team can make it. I still think it's worth adding
 155 [16:53] <kelemengabor> okay, I'll add that too :)
 156 [16:54] <dpm> cool, thanks for the feedback as well, that seems to reinstate the comments other translators have had on this
 157 [16:55] <dpm> so, anything else anyone? As I say, this can continue on the mailing list in the next few days
 158 [16:55] <dpm> also, if anyone has got questions on UDS, feel free to ask!
 159 [16:55] <kelemengabor> I guess this was all from me :)
 160 [16:56] <dpm> awesome, thanks a lot kelemengabor
 161 [16:57] <ivarela> is my first time here. And I arrived late (sorry for the delay), so I do not know what issues were discussed. There will be a summary list?
 162 [16:58] <dpm> ivarela, sure, the meeting is logged and I'll post a summary on the mailing list (probably not until tomorrow, though)
 163 [16:58] <kelemengabor> dpm: oh, and one more thing...
 164 [16:58] <dpm> sure, go ahead
 165 [16:59] <kelemengabor> earlier, you asked translators several time on the list to test proposed langpack updates if they are okay
 166 [16:59] <kelemengabor> I don't think that this makes much sense...
 167 [17:00] <kelemengabor> it is hard to detect the differences introduced in the new langpack
 168 [17:00] <kelemengabor> except if you did them yourself and made a note
 169 [17:01] <kelemengabor> can we talk about abolishing this nonsense? :)
 170 [17:01] <kelemengabor> this does not worth a full session though
 171 [17:01] <dpm> yeah, I know, it's just a matter of running the langpack and see if there are any crashes (we've had quite a few in Arabic and Hebrew and plurals). I'm open to talk about anything, and I think this particular item would fit well in the langpacks schedule session you were proposing
 172 [17:02] <dpm> I'd be happy to abolish that as well, but I haven't got any solution at the moment :)
 173 [17:03] <dpm> anyway, we're running late and I'd like to finish the meeting. We can continue discussing this on #ubuntu-translators, though
 174 [17:03] <dpm> So I'd say that was it. Thank you all very much for participating, and now let's go and finish all those remaining translations before the deadline today!
 175 [17:05] <dpm> bye everyone!