2011-06-19

2011-06-19 Meeting Minutes

the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

Old Business

  • Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU

Team updates

Packaging & Development

  • replaced evince with epdfview
  • few merges/syncs from Debian by micahg and mr_pouit
  • GTK3 itself will probably be on the CD due to some shared apps, but Xfce is staying on GTK2 through 4.10, so Xubuntu's default will be GTK2 through the LTS
  • pavucontrol and pastebinit need to be added to the defaults
  • look at the possibility of adding midori as a second browser

Bug Triage & Testing

Website & Marketing

Artwork

  • there's a git-repo for greybird
    • https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird

    • please download the latest .zip from Downloads every two weeks minimum for testing
      • test it in either natty or oneiric unless we tell you pull it sooner
    • Downloading more often is fine, but check for updates first.
    • Constructive criticism to ochosi
  • Our artwork team goals

  • Ubuntu now has a theme engine so that one theme can work for both gtk3 and gtk2

Documentation

  • We need someone that can go through the wiki documentation and update it.

Announcements

Any Other Business

Action items for the 2011-06-19 meeting

  • micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras
  • GridCube to begin a discussion on the Xubuntu-devel ML to find the "Top 10" FAQ items for Xubuntu

    • investigate putting the "TOP 10" FAQ on the website
  • ACTION - start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc

Xubuntu Governance



2011-06-19 Meeting Log

  • People Present:
    • charlie-tca
    • mr_pouit
    • micahg
    • ochosi
    • xrdodrx
    • GridCube

    • plantoschka

The full logs can found in original form at
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/19/%23xubuntu-devel.txt
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/20/%23xubuntu-devel.txt

Started logging meeting in #xubuntu-devel

[23:01] <charlie-tca> Welcome to the weekly xubuntu commity meeting

[23:02] <charlie-tca> We keep the agenda at

[23:02] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

[23:02] <charlie-tca> however, due to problems with the wiki, it is:

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Old business - all

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Team updates - Team Leads

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Packaging & Development

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Changes to the default applications

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Bug Triage & Testing

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Daily testing versus milestone testing

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Website & Marketing

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * There is a current discussion on the xubuntu-devel mailing list

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Artwork

[23:02] <charlie-tca> * Documentation

[23:03] <charlie-tca> * Announcements - Project Lead

[23:03] <charlie-tca> * Governance structure - all

[23:03] <charlie-tca> * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu Governance & Team Structure

[23:03] <charlie-tca> * Any Other Business - all/anyone

[23:03] <charlie-tca> I forgot to dig up the xscreensaver info

[23:03] <charlie-tca> so, lets go ahead with the teams

[23:03] <charlie-tca> Team updates - Team Leads

[23:03] <charlie-tca> * Packaging & Development

[23:04] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit or micahg : your turn

[23:04] <mr_pouit> I can do it ;>

[23:04] * charlie-tca nods

[23:04] <micahg> hi mr_pouit

[23:04] <mr_pouit> less changes this week I think, only replaced evince by epdfview as discussed a few days ago

[23:05] <mr_pouit> then a few merges/syncs from Debian by micahg and me

[23:05] <ochosi> so we generally have to kick out most of the gnome-stuff now due to dependency issues?

[23:05] <xrdodrx> what's happening with GTK3 in Xubuntu 11.10?

[23:05] <charlie-tca> it is easier than fighting with gnome3 and gtk3 if we don' t have to

[23:06] <mr_pouit> well, let's see what happens, if epdfview is too crappy, we can still go back to evince-gtk

[23:06] <xrdodrx> those packages are still going to be in main and will be installed by end-users, though...

[23:06] <charlie-tca> Users can still install any application, it will pull in the required dependencies and recommends it needs

[23:06] <charlie-tca> We don't have to that by default though

[23:07] <ochosi> mr_pouit: really wasn't meant as critique but as an honest question, how much/what will we have to potentially drop in the worst case?

[23:07] <mr_pouit> it's very likely we'll still have gtk+3.0 shipped anyway

[23:07] <micahg> xrdodrx: GTK3 itself will probably be on the CD due to some shared apps, but Xfce is staying on GTK2 through 4.10, so Xubuntu's default will be GTK2 through the LTS

[23:08] <charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit

[23:08] <charlie-tca> anything else for you?

[23:08] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: isn't yelp used by some of the applications still?

[23:09] <mr_pouit> ochosi: I think most "common" tools will be ported to gtk3, so we'd have to drop them as well, not really what we want

[23:09] <micahg> yelp is a good example

[23:09] <mr_pouit> (yeah, for instance, yelp is already ported)

[23:09] <xrdodrx> micahg, I see, but there's really no avoiding GTK3 in the long run Wink ;)

[23:09] <charlie-tca> However, as announced several times, Xubuntu will not push gtk3 more than needed

[23:10] <micahg> xrdodrx: no, definitely not, and it's not GTK3 so much as the GNOME deps related to GTK3 apps

[23:10] <mr_pouit> we won't port 4.8 to gtk3 for the fun Wink ;-)

[23:10] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: but the long run for us in about 12.10

[23:10] <charlie-tca> or later

[23:10] <micahg> right, if Xfce sticks with the year release cycles, it'll be 13.04 before Xubuntu is GTK3

[23:10] <charlie-tca> The less we have to fight gnome applications, the better off we are

[23:11] <xrdodrx> GTK3 and GTK2 have to be themed separately, so it's not going to be a simple thing, I'm sure.

[23:11] <micahg> xrdodrx: no, we can have a GTK3 theme used by both

[23:11] <micahg> the desktop team has a theming engine that I believe we can use as well

[23:12] <charlie-tca> Any other questions?

[23:12] <micahg> \o

[23:12] <charlie-tca> go ahead, micahg

[23:13] <micahg> mr_pouit: I noticed that xubuntu-restricted-extras still ships icedtea6-plugin, is this something worth moving to the default recommends (i.e. how important is Java in the default browser experience (it's in main, so no need to be in restricted-extras anymore)

[23:14] * GridCube is here for the meeting

[23:14] <mr_pouit> do you know what ubuntu-desktop is doing?

[23:15] <mr_pouit> I guess moving it into the seeds is safe

[23:15] <micahg> well, it's still in restricted extras for the moment

[23:15] <micahg> I want to talk to mvo tomorrow about it

[23:15] <charlie-tca> java is already removed from the package, but the description needs to be updated

[23:15] <micahg> although I doubt Ubuntu will take it due to space concers

[23:15] <micahg> *concerns

[23:15] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, it has openjdk

[23:15] <charlie-tca> it does?

[23:15] <charlie-tca> http://pad.lv/799514

[23:15] <ubottu> Launchpad bug 799514 in ubuntu-restricted-extras (Ubuntu) "xubuntu-restricted-extras doesn't contain Java" [Undecided,New]

[23:15] <micahg> aka icedtea6-plugin

[23:16] <charlie-tca> oh

[23:16] <micahg> yes, that's what prompted this thinking

[23:16] <charlie-tca> which will pull in openjre or openjdk?

[23:16] <micahg> it's in xubuntu-restricted-addons which is a depends of the restricted-extras

[23:16] <micahg> charlie-tca: openjdk

[23:17] <micahg> we can decide later if we have the space to do it

[23:17] <micahg> I just wanted to bring it up early

[23:17] <charlie-tca> Let's find out what Ubuntu is going to do with it, then

[23:18] <micahg> like I said, I doubt they'll take it due to space concerns

[23:18] <charlie-tca> ACTION - micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras

[23:19] <charlie-tca> Don't want to just let it drop

[23:19] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Bugs and Testing

[23:19] <charlie-tca> We have images again! We can start testing tomorrow, We just pick up at the 19th on the chart

[23:20] * micahg would like to bring up https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-June/007830.html

[23:20] <charlie-tca> well, 20th, tomorrow

[23:20] <charlie-tca> As far as I know, the live desktop is broken

[23:20] <micahg> sorry, should've waited

[23:21] * micahg thought some fixes landed on Friday to fix that

[23:21] <charlie-tca> Maybe for Ubuntu, but we did not get them

[23:22] <charlie-tca> micahg brings up a valid point. Call For Testing: Natty Firefox users

[23:22] <charlie-tca> We need to test firefox in natty ASAP

[23:22] <xrdodrx> I'm one, and can definitely test this Big Grin :)

[23:22] <charlie-tca> See the reference micahg gave above

[23:22] <xrdodrx> I'm reading it right now Smile :)

[23:22] <charlie-tca> If you need help, let us know.

[23:23] <charlie-tca> Unfortunately, Ubuntu gets the image fixes first. We usually have to go back and push to get them in our images

[23:24] <charlie-tca> Any questions for bugs and testing?

[23:24] <GridCube> i can test tomorrow

[23:24] <charlie-tca> great!

[23:24] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Website & Marketing

[23:24] <charlie-tca> pleia2, knome, plantoschka

[23:24] <charlie-tca> you guys are up now

[23:25] <GridCube> can i say something?

[23:25] <charlie-tca> Well, then

[23:25] <charlie-tca> sure

[23:25] <charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube

[23:26] <GridCube> i would like that in the main xubuntu site there where a FAQ of simple tasks, like "how to listen music?" or stuff like that, but on various idioms, like spañish, english and so on

[23:27] <GridCube> i don't really know how to set that up, but i will be willing to translate a simple like "Top ten questions" on spañish

[23:28] <xrdodrx> micahg, I think I found a small error in your instructions, you recommend doing sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade but sudo apt-get upgrade is probably the way to go Smile :)

[23:28] <xrdodrx> (concerning testing firefox 5 on Xubuntu Natty)

[23:28] <micahg> xrdodrx: nope, won't upgrade the langpacks

[23:28] <xrdodrx> oh, okay

[23:28] <charlie-tca> pleia2 or knome : Is such a thing possible as GridCube proposes possible on the website?

[23:28] <ochosi> i second GridCube's idea/s, but not sure who'll do the work Wink ;)

[23:28] <plantoschka> GridCube, sounds good

[23:29] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: sudo apt-get upgrade does not pull in a lot of stuff that needs to upgrade

[23:29] <charlie-tca> ACTION - investigate putting the "TOP 10" in spanish on the website

[23:29] <xrdodrx> guess I'll have to redo it as dist-upgrade, then, unless there's a way to cancel apt-get during the downloads process

[23:30] <micahg> xrdodrx: yep, you can just CTRL+C

[23:30] <charlie-tca> GridCube: you would translate it, right?

[23:30] <xrdodrx> micahg, alright, I hesitate to do that to any package manager Wink ;)

[23:30] <charlie-tca> If we have a translation, it is relatively minor to simply publish it on the website

[23:31] <xrdodrx> I could probably assist GridCube with this, I speak native English and am quite proficient (I'd say, at least Wink ;) ) in Spanish

[23:31] <xrdodrx> it might be good too have a starter's guide on the website Big Grin :)

[23:32] <charlie-tca> GridCube: who puts the list together?

[23:32] <charlie-tca> Do you have things in mind already, or do we need to gather stuff to be translated?

[23:33] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: What about using VirtualBox to run it, so it stays separate from your installation?

[23:35] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, it's no trouble at all

[23:35] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Artwork

[23:35] <charlie-tca> ochosi: your turn

[23:36] <ochosi> k, well as most of you know there's a git-repo for greybird

[23:36] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, I often find it's better to test software on real hardware, and if it's on my install I'll def be testing it quite a bit Wink ;)

[23:36] <ochosi> recently i've been testing a few noticeable changes to greybird

[23:37] <ochosi> in the beginning i thought i'd just do a few additional styles for specific apps, but now i think the theme will change a bit for our next release

[23:37] <ochosi> i'm still very much in the experimenting/testing phase

[23:37] <ochosi> so feel free to pull the theme every once in a while and test it

[23:37] <ochosi> i'm very happy to get feedback, but please don't start shouting too loud because of changes i make in git

[23:38] <charlie-tca> xrdodrx: then you need to become familiar with sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, since apt-get upgrade won't upgrade the kernel, either.

[23:38] <ochosi> i don't consider much in the current state is 'final'

[23:38] <charlie-tca> ochosi: can you give the URL, please

[23:38] <ochosi> the general feel of the theme is supposedly lighter though

[23:38] <ochosi> sure, https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird

[23:38] <xrdodrx> charlie-tca, I'm sorry, forgive that error on my part, I didn't really understand the difference totally, all I had to do was cancel the upgrade and redo it as dist-upgrade Smile :)

[23:38] <GridCube> charlie-tca, sorry for the delay, yes i will help translate

[23:39] <ochosi> instructions of how to clone the repo and keep it up-to-date are on that page as well

[23:39] <charlie-tca> Are the changes working for both oneiric and natty?

[23:39] <xrdodrx> I'm using FF 5 now

[23:39] <ochosi> charlie-tca: are you asking me?

[23:39] <charlie-tca> yes, ochosi

[23:39] <ochosi> it's a bit noisy here atm Smile :)

[23:39] <charlie-tca> sorry

[23:39] <ochosi> at the moment those changes are *only* tested with natty

[23:39] <ochosi> oneiric is still too unstable for me

[23:39] <ochosi> the gtk3 port of greybird is only a draft

[23:40] <GridCube> charlie-tca, i don't really know what are the top 10 questions on #xubuntu mabye the moving the panels, using compiz, and i dont know what else

[23:41] <charlie-tca> So, we can have testers pull in the new theme. They can try it on either natty or oneiric.

[23:41] <ochosi> yep

[23:41] <charlie-tca> GridCube: Let's take it to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, then.

[23:41] <charlie-tca> ochosi: sorry.

[23:41] <GridCube> Smile :)

[23:42] <charlie-tca> Have you got anything else we want to know?

[23:42] <charlie-tca> ochosi:

[23:42] <charlie-tca> ]please let him finish now, guys

[23:42] <ochosi> good question, well, are there any questions? Wink ;)

[23:42] <charlie-tca> o/

[23:42] <GridCube> o/

[23:42] <ochosi> k, one at a time

[23:43] <charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube

[23:43] <GridCube> will there be a proper *places* menu on the basic panels?

[23:43] <micahg> places has returned in oneiric

[23:44] <GridCube> oh. sorry for asking then

[23:44] <ochosi> micahg: what do you mean? does it not depend on thunar-vfs anymore or is it part of the default panel config now?

[23:44] <charlie-tca> The question is will the art team include it on a panel, or will we keep thunar?

[23:44] <micahg> ochosi: it does not

[23:45] <charlie-tca> It is still a plugin, to be added. It no longer depends on thunar-vfs.

[23:45] <mr_pouit> the gio patch has been included, and we put it back in the default package set

[23:45] <ochosi> ok, that sounds good

[23:45] <mr_pouit> but it's not in the default panel config

[23:45] <ochosi> well we haven't discussed panel configs for oneiric at all yet

[23:45] <ochosi> i'd say we should start by evaluating what we currently have

[23:46] <charlie-tca> +1

[23:46] <ochosi> (and check the reviews for feedback)

[23:46] <charlie-tca> Want to take it up next meeting?

[23:46] <micahg> mr_pouit: ah, sorry, thought you put it back in the default config

i don't really know what are the top 10 questions on #xubuntu mabye the moving the panels, using compiz, and i dont know what else

[23:47] <charlie-tca> ACTION - GridCube to begin a discussion on the ML about what should be translated

[23:47] <mr_pouit> micahg: oh no, if I change the default config without discussion, too many people will want to kill me (at least charlie-tca and ochosi ;D)

[23:47] <GridCube> i'm not part of the mailing list

[23:48] <ochosi> charlie-tca: tbh this week is a bit busy for me, not sure i'll manage to check reviews. if anyone else could do it i'm fine with discussing it

[23:48] <charlie-tca> Let's do it on the ML, then?

[23:48] <charlie-tca> Get more people involved in it, maybe, without taking a bunch of time here?

[23:49] <charlie-tca> ACTION - start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc

[23:50] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I leave it to ochosi with my moaning to help guide it Smile :)

[23:50] <ochosi> k

[23:50] <ochosi> i mean just to be straight-forward: i'm fine with the current setup

[23:50] <ochosi> i like it a lot

[23:50] <GridCube> o/

[23:51] <charlie-tca> go ahead, GridCube

[23:51] <GridCube> on the artwork things, can it be made that lightgdm uses the same wallpaper that xubuntu session uses? or an easy way to fix it up?

[23:52] <charlie-tca> yes, it can be made easy to fix it

[23:52] <charlie-tca> It already is, tbh

[23:52] <ochosi> Smile :)

[23:52] <GridCube> :P that could be part of the top 10 questions

[23:52] <ochosi> lightDM theming will be dealt with as soon as i start testing/workin on oneiric

[23:52] <ochosi> which is pretty soon

[23:52] <ochosi> same goes for gtk3

[23:52] <charlie-tca> I have mine themed to the desktop wallpaper already

[23:53] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what was your question?

[23:53] <GridCube> on that same topic, what about user avatars?

[23:53] <charlie-tca> harder

[23:53] <charlie-tca> We have to see what our front-end brings in

[23:53] <GridCube> okay

[23:53] <charlie-tca> ochosi: any kind of time estimate to pull the new themes for testing?

[23:54] <charlie-tca> Like, weekly, two-weeks, anything?

[23:54] <ochosi> you mean to oneiric?

[23:54] <xrdodrx> I imagine that once LightDM gets included in default Ubuntu there will be many GUI front-ends to customizing it, GridCube

[23:54] <charlie-tca> from git

[23:54] <charlie-tca> As a general guide, should a tester pull from git every two weeks or ???

[23:55] <ochosi> hm, tbh my work-schedule is not so clear that i could give you real guidance

[23:55] <micahg> xrdodrx: lightdm is already the default in Ubuntu

[23:55] <ochosi> maybe it's best to check my commit messages

[23:55] <ochosi> if there is something noteworthy i usually write it down

[23:55] <xrdodrx> micahg, for natty?

[23:55] <ochosi> so maybe check every week or every other week

[23:55] <xrdodrx> I meant for oneiric Smile :)

[23:56] <micahg> xrdodrx: oneiric

[23:56] <ochosi> right now is definitely a good time

[23:56] <ochosi> to pull and test the theme

[23:57] <charlie-tca> Okay testers! pull the new themes every two weeks and test it in either natty or oneiric unless we tell you pull it sooner

[23:57] <charlie-tca> and this week would be a great time to pull it, within a day or two, if possible!

[23:57] <GridCube> Smile :) will do

[23:58] <ochosi> feedback would be best directed directly to me

[23:58] <charlie-tca> Thank you very much, ochosi

[23:58] <ochosi> either via email or on irc

[23:58] <ochosi> no

[23:58] <ochosi> problem

[23:58] <charlie-tca> Any other questions for things covered so far?

[23:59] <charlie-tca> If not, we have a couple of Announcements

[23:59] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Announcements

[23:59] <charlie-tca> Debian Import Freeze: June 30

[23:59] <charlie-tca> 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30

[23:59] <charlie-tca> Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7

[23:59] <charlie-tca> Testing for Alpha2: July 5

[23:59] <charlie-tca> The wiki is causing a few headaches after the latest change.

[23:59] <charlie-tca> Please file bugs and issues with it according to the announcement:

[00:00] <charlie-tca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2011-June/000859.html

[00:00] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Any Other Business

[00:00] <charlie-tca> Anything else to be discussed today?

[00:01] <charlie-tca> I will get this written up and out via email. The wiki will not be updated until they let me login again

[00:01] <charlie-tca> Thanks, everyone, for your participation!

[00:01] <GridCube> Big Grin :)

[00:01] <charlie-tca> It is great to have people getting involved in this great project.

[00:02] <charlie-tca> and now,

[00:02] <charlie-tca> Enjoy your day today!

[00:02] <GridCube> Smile :) lately lots of new installers have ended up on the channel

[00:02] <charlie-tca> ENDMEETING

[00:02] <GridCube> Big Grin :)

[00:02] <charlie-tca> yes, they have. It is a good thing to see many new people coming to Xubuntu.

[00:02] <micahg> mr_pouit: I'll try to get libnotify1 off the CD by alpha2

[00:03] <charlie-tca> Oh, and for the people that don' t already know, to subscribe to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, go to

[00:03] <charlie-tca> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel

[00:03] <charlie-tca> and sign up

[00:04] <charlie-tca> That's our official ML to discuss what we do with Xubuntu

[00:04] <mr_pouit> micahg: feel free to file removal requests for plugins that are not really maintained upstream, and not in debian

[00:04] <micahg> mr_pouit: only 4 rdepends left after your round of syncs

[00:04] <micahg> mr_pouit: k, already filed for thunar-thumbnailers

[00:05] <micahg> mr_pouit: probably won't get to much xubuntu stuff until wed, I have a round of Mozilla updates

[00:05] <GridCube> oh, ochosi, this is just me being silly, but what if xubuntu came whit Screenlets preinstalled whit some weather or stuff like that preconfigured by locale?

Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-06-19 (last edited 2011-06-20 13:17:50 by charlie-tca)