2011-06-27 Meeting Minutes
the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
- Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU - Carried Forward
- micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras
GridCube to begin a discussion on the Xubuntu-devel ML to find the "Top 10" FAQ items for Xubuntu
- investigate putting the "TOP 10" FAQ on the website
- start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc
Packaging & Development
- merges/syncs from Debian
- pavucontrol and pastebinit need to be added to the defaults
- look into putting file-roller back, now that it won't pull in nautilus anymore
- look at the possibility of adding midori as a second browser
- no updates for Xubuntu 10.04.3, so this will not be done
Bug Triage & Testing
- WWe are running tests almost daily, alternating partition methods and install methods to cover everything
- Bug squashing continues on a daily basis
Website & Marketing
- All teams need to review website content
insure http://xubuntu.org/contribute is up to date for each team
- there's a git-repo for greybird
- There is a new scrollbar style; please download the latest updates from git and test it
- we dropped the scrollbar-arrows (at least visually)
- it can be tested in Xubuntu 11.04
- We need someone that can go through the wiki documentation and update it.
- Team Reports are due for June
- Debian Import Freeze: June 30
- 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30
- Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7
- Testing for Alpha2: July 5
- We will need a news release for alpha2, and it should give the changes to default apps if we can.
We can include the most critical bugs from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot
A draft for release notes is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes
Any Other Business
- knome is now an IRC op in #xubuntu-devel
- discussion about adding switch user to panel
- to subscribe to the xubuntu-devel mailing list, go to
- Next meeting is in one week, July 3, #xubuntu-devel, at 22:00 UTC.
Action items for the 2011-06-27 meeting
- No action items
The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu Governance & Team Structure
2011-06-27 Meeting Log
- People Present:
The full logs can found in original form at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/27/%23xubuntu-devel.txt
Started logging meeting in #xubuntu-devel
[20:04] <charlie-tca> #STARTMEETING
[20:04] <charlie-tca> The full agenda for the meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meeting
[20:05] <charlie-tca> Today's agenda:
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Old business
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Team updates - Team Leads
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Packaging & Development
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Bug Triage & Testing
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Website & Marketing
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Artwork
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Documentation
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Announcements
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * TeamReports need to be updated
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Governance structure - all
[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Any Other Business - all/anyone
[20:05] <charlie-tca> So, I have not dug up the xscreensaver stuff, so let's go to team updates
[20:06] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Packaging & Development
[20:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : go ahead, please
[20:06] <mr_pouit> the usual round of merges/syncs from Debian (almost finished, should be ok at the end of this week)
[20:07] <mr_pouit> I don't think we changed anything in the default package set last week
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Have we added pastebinit?
[20:07] <mr_pouit> (might be worth to put file-roller back, now that it won't pull in nautilus anymore)
[20:07] <mr_pouit> eh, sorry, I forgot
[20:07] <ochosi> fileroller +1
[20:08] <charlie-tca> +1 fileroller and pastebinit
[20:08] <micahg> wow, xarchiver is really that bad?
[20:08] <mr_pouit> =)
[20:08] <charlie-tca> heh
[20:09] <charlie-tca> micahg hasn't had the pleasure of fighting with xarchiver yet
[20:09] <micahg> I hope to take a look at the seeds after the platform rally to see if we can get the size down
[20:09] <charlie-tca> size down would be good, too
[20:09] <charlie-tca> The 64bit alternate install image grew last night
[20:10] <charlie-tca> live desktop is still broken, raised in the release team meeting
[20:11] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any thoughts on 10.04.3? Do we want to push it or just stay where we are
[20:11] <charlie-tca> The only thing I see it might do is help with the logout instead of shutdown bug
[20:11] <mr_pouit> mmh, we don't have any update at all in it
[20:12] <micahg> nope, just a newer Firefox and THunderbird (point releases)
[20:12] <mr_pouit> yeah, but this fix includes a regression, so it's not really suitable
[20:12] <charlie-tca> Then I won't push that one. We can work on Oneiric instead
[20:12] <charlie-tca> Any questions for development and packaging?
[20:13] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Bug Triage & Testing
[20:14] <charlie-tca> We are triaging a few bugs, mostly hitting the oneiric ones.
[20:14] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit seems to be doing more bugs than I am again.
[20:14] <charlie-tca> Testing is going great! Of course, we lost a couple of volunteers as soon as we said we need them to test.
[20:15] <charlie-tca> We are running tests almost daily, alternating partition methods and install methods to cover everything
[20:15] <charlie-tca> any questions?
[20:16] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Website & Marketing
[20:16] <charlie-tca> knome, pleia2 : your turn
[20:17] <pleia2> over the weekend I sent a mail to -devel asking for some review of the website content
[20:18] <charlie-tca> Yeah!
[20:18] <charlie-tca> We are gaining
[20:18] <charlie-tca> We do need some marketing help still. As Ubuntu builds Unity, we are picking up a lot of users
[20:18] <pleia2> I've completed a basic review, but if others with expertise in the other areas could make sure the information is accurate linked from http://xubuntu.org/contribute it would be great
[20:19] <knome> should check that later that week
[20:19] <pleia2> I haven't gotten the page up for displaying our logos for people to use in marketing, I'll add that to my todo list now
[20:19] <pleia2> knome: any updates on our wp theme?
[20:20] <knome> no, not right now
[20:20] <knome> but the picslider is a wordpress plugin now
[20:20] <knome> you can see it in action in http://shimmerproject.org/project/albatross/
[20:21] <knome> (you can even ry to navigate the images)
[20:21] <knome> *try
[20:21] <pleia2> knome: is the plugin hosted online somewhere?
[20:21] <pleia2> we can submit it for review by canonical if it's ready while we finish the rest of the theme
[20:21] <knome> pleia2, not yet, i'm still doing a few modifications to it
[20:21] <knome> actually, i'm working with it right now
[20:22] <pleia2> ok
[20:22] <pleia2> charlie-tca: I think that's all we've got
[20:22] <charlie-tca> Okay, everybody please review the website for content
[20:22] <charlie-tca> Let's stay on top of this website change, too. The sooner we get things in for approval, the sooner we get operational
[20:22] <charlie-tca> Any questions for website?
[20:23] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Artwork
[20:23] <charlie-tca> ochosi: you get to be here today?
[20:23] <ochosi> yep
[20:23] <ochosi> so, basically the "big news" is that i think we settled on a new scrollbar style
[20:24] <ochosi> at least for now
[20:24] <ochosi> we went through several iterations
[20:24] <ochosi> and i fixed it insofar that firefox and libreoffice work with it now
[20:24] <ochosi> we dropped the scrollbar-arrows (at least visually)
[20:25] <ochosi> other than that, not many changes to be honest, mainly cleaning up behind the changes we did during the last few weeks
[20:25] <ochosi> feedback has been ok so far, but there could be more
[20:25] <ochosi> so feel free to test
[20:26] <charlie-tca> Feedback seems to be directly to connected to what is hated most?
[20:26] <ochosi> hm, up to now it was mainly feedback about the scrollbar
[20:26] <ochosi> but actually i think it has become positive (from sceptic in the beginning)
[20:26] <charlie-tca> Please, if you can test the new theme, do so. It is fully testable in Natty, right?
[20:26] <ochosi> yep
[20:27] <charlie-tca> You don't even have to install oneiric yet, so let's get some feedback on this new scrollbar.
[20:27] <charlie-tca> Any questions ?
[20:28] <Mandrew> hope i dont intrude. but if you drop me a link to the new theme im glad to be testing it
[20:28] <ochosi> Mandrew: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird
[20:29] <charlie-tca> anyone else?
[20:29] <charlie-tca> Mandrew: thanks for testing the theme.
[20:29] <Mandrew> no thank you
[20:29] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Documentation
[20:29] <charlie-tca> This is one of the areas that appears the weakest for us.
[20:29] <charlie-tca> We had a person in that was looking into the wiki, is he here?
[20:31] <charlie-tca> well, okay then
[20:31] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Announcements
[20:31] <charlie-tca> That favorite subject is back again... Team Reports are due for June
[20:32] <charlie-tca> These can be updated by anyone, not just a select few.
[20:32] <charlie-tca> Just go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports
[20:32] <charlie-tca> click on the edit link for this month, and add your updates.
[20:32] <charlie-tca> We do a lot of work in Xubuntu, and this is how we get credit for it and track a lot of it.
[20:33] <charlie-tca> Important dates coming rapidly:
[20:33] <charlie-tca> Debian Import Freeze: June 30
[20:33] <charlie-tca> 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30
[20:33] <charlie-tca> Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7
[20:34] <charlie-tca> We will need a new release for alpha2, and it should give the changes to default apps if we can.
[20:34] <charlie-tca> We can include the most critical bugs from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot
[20:36] <charlie-tca> We are trying to track things for the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes
[20:36] <charlie-tca> Any questions?
[20:37] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Any Other Business
[20:38] <charlie-tca> Anything else we need to discuss? Anything we missed?
[20:38] <charlie-tca> oh, yes
[20:38] <jarnos> I missed a lot, I suppose.
[20:38] <charlie-tca> knome is now an IRC op in #xubuntu-devel
[20:39] <charlie-tca> jarnos: yes, we are almost finished, but there will be minutes posted to the wiki and ML's
[20:39] <jarnos> Did you chat about themes/style
[20:40] <charlie-tca> A little, yes. Did you have something specific in mind?
[20:40] <jarnos> Well, I have survived by one panel with many releases.
[20:41] <jarnos> Even with small screen 1024x600.
[20:41] <knome> and?
[20:41] <charlie-tca> So, launchers only on the bottom panel make it much easier to remove?
[20:42] <jarnos> Well, I think it would be worth thinking, if everything a default user needs can be in one panel. By the way,
[20:43] <jarnos> In Natty there are many new panel elements.
[20:43] <Mandrew> i like the two panels that you guys have now:)
[20:43] <charlie-tca> In natty, we switched to Xfce 4.8, and that affected most of the components
[20:44] <charlie-tca> The panels were a complete re-write for Xfce, so it was a good opportunity to change them
[20:44] <jarnos> Mandrew, sometimes the autoshown bottom panel can be on way, if you e.g. scroll.
[20:44] <jarnos> Inicator plugin takes unneccessary lot panel space.
[20:44] <charlie-tca> It has never gotten in my way, even scrolling. We do have full size scroll areas, which helps
[20:45] <charlie-tca> What is in indicator panel that would not be on the panel in the notification area?
[20:46] <jarnos> charlie-tca, if you are careful, you don't accidentally unhide the panel.
[20:47] <jarnos> charlie-tca, well, I need currently only network manager, but it has volume control and that letter box and a lot of empty space in between.
[20:48] <charlie-tca> but that is you, personally.
[20:48] <jarnos> charlie-tca, volume control can be handled to some extent by conventional mixer in panel.
[20:48] <charlie-tca> Most of the users really prefer the mixer, and having the chat application.
[20:49] <charlie-tca> the mixer takes the same space, whether in notification area or indicator panel
[20:49] <charlie-tca> it is just a speaker icon
[20:49] <jarnos> charlie-tca, no, there is a lot of space between the icons in the indicator plugin.
[20:50] <charlie-tca> Truth be told, looking at my 11.04 and 10.04 side by side at the same resolution, it took more space for network manager applet and mixer in 10.04
[20:51] <jarnos> indicator plugin does not offer configuration
[20:51] <Mandrew> charlie-tca, i think he says that there is a lot of space between the icons
[20:51] <charlie-tca> We must always look at the overall user experience, not a single user. Every user is free to change the defaults
[20:52] <charlie-tca> Mandrew: I know, but 10.04 without indicator panel used more space than indicators do
[20:52] <Mandrew> i like that it makes it airy so to say
[20:52] <charlie-tca> You can remove indicator plugin and use the notification area instead.
[20:53] <jarnos> charlie-tca, when I removed the indicator plugin, I didn't get network manager in the notification area.
[20:54] <charlie-tca> I think you are correct. Ubuntu has tied network manager to indicators.
[20:54] <charlie-tca> And they may even tie more to them. We are not going to rebuild every app to undo what they do.
[20:55] <charlie-tca> Again, as a individual, you are allowed to make changes that fit your work style.
[20:56] <jarnos> By the way, wouldn't Switch user be a nice default item in panel? Without it you can switch, it you lock screen and make a new login, though.
[20:56] <jarnos> I wonder why it is not in the session menu.
[20:56] <charlie-tca> Won't that take even more room in the panel?
[20:58] <charlie-tca> ochosi: what do you think of adding the user switcher plugin to the panel by default?
[20:58] <jarnos> No, if it is in Session Menu, which itself may take a lot of space depending on your user name.
[20:59] <charlie-tca> Not sure we can add to the session menu, anyone know the answer?
[21:00] <jarnos> Is there any sense of keeping both Session Menu and Log Out Dialog?
[21:01] <charlie-tca> huh?
[21:01] <Unit193> I'm now here and read up :/
[21:01] <charlie-tca> by default you don't have both
[21:01] <jarnos> If I remember right, Ubuntu had switch user in it before.
[21:02] <charlie-tca> Default is now session menu. If you have both, you probably should delete the old ~/.config and ~/.cache and rebuild things
[21:02] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu doesn't use the xfce session menu, it uses gnome stuff, which is different
[21:03] <charlie-tca> So, not having an answer, and having taken the allotted hour for this now, we could pursue this better on the Mailing List
[21:03] <charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for participating in the weekly meeting. Your participation is important to us!
[21:03] <Mandrew> i can logout under my name in the right corner and in the bottom of my "start menu", and i have a fresh install
[21:03] <charlie-tca> The next meeting will be Sunday, July 3rd, at 22:00 UTC.
[21:03] <charlie-tca> Let's go update Team Reports!
[21:04] <charlie-tca> Mandrew: that's different
[21:04] <Mandrew> ok
[21:04] <charlie-tca> log out dialog is a quit button
[21:04] <charlie-tca> which the session menu replaced
[21:04] <charlie-tca> You can see the log out dialogs by using right-click on the panel, panel, logout
[21:05] <charlie-tca> which is a builtin for Xfce
[21:05] <Mandrew> ok cool
[21:07] <charlie-tca> ENDMEETING