2011-06-27 Meeting Minutes

the agenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

Old Business

  • Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU - Carried Forward
  • micahg to find what Ubuntu-desktop does with java in restricted-extras
  • GridCube to begin a discussion on the Xubuntu-devel ML to find the "Top 10" FAQ items for Xubuntu

    • investigate putting the "TOP 10" FAQ on the website
  • start ML discussion on panels, reviews of current panels, launchers on panels, etc

Team updates

Packaging & Development

  • merges/syncs from Debian
  • pavucontrol and pastebinit need to be added to the defaults
  • look into putting file-roller back, now that it won't pull in nautilus anymore
  • look at the possibility of adding midori as a second browser
  • no updates for Xubuntu 10.04.3, so this will not be done

Bug Triage & Testing

  • WWe are running tests almost daily, alternating partition methods and install methods to cover everything
  • Bug squashing continues on a daily basis

Website & Marketing


  • there's a git-repo for greybird
  • There is a new scrollbar style; please download the latest updates from git and test it
    • we dropped the scrollbar-arrows (at least visually)
    • it can be tested in Xubuntu 11.04


  • We need someone that can go through the wiki documentation and update it.


Any Other Business

Action items for the 2011-06-27 meeting

  • No action items

Xubuntu Governance

2011-06-27 Meeting Log

  • People Present:
    • charlie-tca
    • mr_pouit
    • micahg
    • ochosi
    • pleia2
    • knome
    • Mandrew
    • jarnos
    • Unit193

The full logs can found in original form at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/06/27/%23xubuntu-devel.txt

Started logging meeting in #xubuntu-devel

[20:04] <charlie-tca> #STARTMEETING

[20:04] <charlie-tca> The full agenda for the meeting is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meeting

[20:05] <charlie-tca> Today's agenda:

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Old business

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Charlie to dig for the xscreensaver updates, and put in an SRU

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Team updates - Team Leads

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Packaging & Development

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Bug Triage & Testing

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Website & Marketing

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Artwork

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Documentation

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Announcements

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * TeamReports need to be updated

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Governance structure - all

[20:05] <charlie-tca> * Any Other Business - all/anyone

[20:05] <charlie-tca> So, I have not dug up the xscreensaver stuff, so let's go to team updates

[20:06] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Packaging & Development

[20:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit, micahg : go ahead, please

[20:06] <mr_pouit> the usual round of merges/syncs from Debian (almost finished, should be ok at the end of this week)

[20:07] <mr_pouit> I don't think we changed anything in the default package set last week

[20:07] <charlie-tca> Have we added pastebinit?

[20:07] <mr_pouit> (might be worth to put file-roller back, now that it won't pull in nautilus anymore)

[20:07] <mr_pouit> eh, sorry, I forgot

[20:07] <ochosi> fileroller +1

[20:08] <charlie-tca> +1 fileroller and pastebinit

[20:08] <micahg> wow, xarchiver is really that bad?

[20:08] <mr_pouit> =)

[20:08] <charlie-tca> heh

[20:09] <charlie-tca> micahg hasn't had the pleasure of fighting with xarchiver yet

[20:09] <micahg> I hope to take a look at the seeds after the platform rally to see if we can get the size down

[20:09] <charlie-tca> size down would be good, too

[20:09] <charlie-tca> The 64bit alternate install image grew last night

[20:10] <charlie-tca> live desktop is still broken, raised in the release team meeting

[20:11] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: any thoughts on 10.04.3? Do we want to push it or just stay where we are

[20:11] <charlie-tca> The only thing I see it might do is help with the logout instead of shutdown bug

[20:11] <mr_pouit> mmh, we don't have any update at all in it

[20:12] <micahg> nope, just a newer Firefox and THunderbird (point releases)

[20:12] <mr_pouit> yeah, but this fix includes a regression, so it's not really suitable

[20:12] <charlie-tca> Then I won't push that one. We can work on Oneiric instead

[20:12] <charlie-tca> Any questions for development and packaging?

[20:13] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Bug Triage & Testing

[20:14] <charlie-tca> We are triaging a few bugs, mostly hitting the oneiric ones.

[20:14] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit seems to be doing more bugs than I am again.

[20:14] <charlie-tca> Testing is going great! Of course, we lost a couple of volunteers as soon as we said we need them to test.

[20:15] <charlie-tca> We are running tests almost daily, alternating partition methods and install methods to cover everything

[20:15] <charlie-tca> any questions?

[20:16] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Website & Marketing

[20:16] <charlie-tca> knome, pleia2 : your turn

[20:17] <pleia2> over the weekend I sent a mail to -devel asking for some review of the website content

[20:18] <charlie-tca> Yeah!

[20:18] <charlie-tca> We are gaining

[20:18] <charlie-tca> We do need some marketing help still. As Ubuntu builds Unity, we are picking up a lot of users

[20:18] <pleia2> I've completed a basic review, but if others with expertise in the other areas could make sure the information is accurate linked from http://xubuntu.org/contribute it would be great

[20:19] <knome> should check that later that week

[20:19] <pleia2> I haven't gotten the page up for displaying our logos for people to use in marketing, I'll add that to my todo list now

[20:19] <pleia2> knome: any updates on our wp theme?

[20:20] <knome> no, not right now

[20:20] <knome> but the picslider is a wordpress plugin now

[20:20] <knome> you can see it in action in http://shimmerproject.org/project/albatross/

[20:21] <knome> (you can even ry to navigate the images)

[20:21] <knome> *try

[20:21] <pleia2> knome: is the plugin hosted online somewhere?

[20:21] <pleia2> we can submit it for review by canonical if it's ready while we finish the rest of the theme

[20:21] <knome> pleia2, not yet, i'm still doing a few modifications to it

[20:21] <knome> actually, i'm working with it right now

[20:22] <pleia2> ok Smile :)

[20:22] <pleia2> charlie-tca: I think that's all we've got

[20:22] <charlie-tca> Okay, everybody please review the website for content

[20:22] <charlie-tca> Let's stay on top of this website change, too. The sooner we get things in for approval, the sooner we get operational

[20:22] <charlie-tca> Any questions for website?

[20:23] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Artwork

[20:23] <charlie-tca> ochosi: you get to be here today?

[20:23] <ochosi> yep

[20:23] <ochosi> so, basically the "big news" is that i think we settled on a new scrollbar style

[20:24] <ochosi> at least for now

[20:24] <ochosi> we went through several iterations

[20:24] <ochosi> and i fixed it insofar that firefox and libreoffice work with it now

[20:24] <ochosi> we dropped the scrollbar-arrows (at least visually)

[20:25] <ochosi> other than that, not many changes to be honest, mainly cleaning up behind the changes we did during the last few weeks

[20:25] <ochosi> feedback has been ok so far, but there could be more

[20:25] <ochosi> so feel free to test

[20:26] <charlie-tca> Feedback seems to be directly to connected to what is hated most?

[20:26] <ochosi> hm, up to now it was mainly feedback about the scrollbar

[20:26] <ochosi> but actually i think it has become positive (from sceptic in the beginning)

[20:26] <charlie-tca> Please, if you can test the new theme, do so. It is fully testable in Natty, right?

[20:26] <ochosi> yep

[20:27] <charlie-tca> You don't even have to install oneiric yet, so let's get some feedback on this new scrollbar.

[20:27] <charlie-tca> Any questions ?

[20:28] <Mandrew> hope i dont intrude. but if you drop me a link to the new theme im glad to be testing it

[20:28] <ochosi> Mandrew: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Greybird

[20:29] <charlie-tca> anyone else?

[20:29] <charlie-tca> Mandrew: thanks for testing the theme.

[20:29] <Mandrew> no thank you Wink ;)

[20:29] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Documentation

[20:29] <charlie-tca> This is one of the areas that appears the weakest for us.

[20:29] <charlie-tca> We had a person in that was looking into the wiki, is he here?

[20:31] <charlie-tca> well, okay then

[20:31] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Announcements

[20:31] <charlie-tca> That favorite subject is back again... Team Reports are due for June

[20:32] <charlie-tca> These can be updated by anyone, not just a select few.

[20:32] <charlie-tca> Just go to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/TeamReports

[20:32] <charlie-tca> click on the edit link for this month, and add your updates.

[20:32] <charlie-tca> We do a lot of work in Xubuntu, and this is how we get credit for it and track a lot of it.

[20:33] <charlie-tca> Important dates coming rapidly:

[20:33] <charlie-tca> Debian Import Freeze: June 30

[20:33] <charlie-tca> 10.04.3 Freeze: June 30

[20:33] <charlie-tca> Oneiric Alpha 2: July 7

[20:34] <charlie-tca> We will need a new release for alpha2, and it should give the changes to default apps if we can.

[20:34] <charlie-tca> We can include the most critical bugs from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Bugs/OneiricOcelot

[20:36] <charlie-tca> We are trying to track things for the release notes at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/OneiricOcelot/AlphaNotes

[20:36] <charlie-tca> Any questions?

[20:37] <charlie-tca> TOPIC - Any Other Business

[20:38] <charlie-tca> Anything else we need to discuss? Anything we missed?

[20:38] <charlie-tca> oh, yes

[20:38] <jarnos> I missed a lot, I suppose.

[20:38] <charlie-tca> knome is now an IRC op in #xubuntu-devel

[20:39] <charlie-tca> jarnos: yes, we are almost finished, but there will be minutes posted to the wiki and ML's

[20:39] <jarnos> Did you chat about themes/style

[20:40] <charlie-tca> A little, yes. Did you have something specific in mind?

[20:40] <jarnos> Well, I have survived by one panel with many releases.

[20:41] <jarnos> Even with small screen 1024x600.

[20:41] <knome> and?

[20:41] <charlie-tca> So, launchers only on the bottom panel make it much easier to remove?

[20:42] <jarnos> Well, I think it would be worth thinking, if everything a default user needs can be in one panel. By the way,

[20:43] <jarnos> In Natty there are many new panel elements.

[20:43] <Mandrew> i like the two panels that you guys have now:)

[20:43] <charlie-tca> In natty, we switched to Xfce 4.8, and that affected most of the components

[20:44] <charlie-tca> The panels were a complete re-write for Xfce, so it was a good opportunity to change them

[20:44] <jarnos> Mandrew, sometimes the autoshown bottom panel can be on way, if you e.g. scroll.

[20:44] <jarnos> Inicator plugin takes unneccessary lot panel space.

[20:44] <charlie-tca> It has never gotten in my way, even scrolling. We do have full size scroll areas, which helps

[20:45] <charlie-tca> What is in indicator panel that would not be on the panel in the notification area?

[20:46] <jarnos> charlie-tca, if you are careful, you don't accidentally unhide the panel.

[20:47] <jarnos> charlie-tca, well, I need currently only network manager, but it has volume control and that letter box and a lot of empty space in between.

[20:48] <charlie-tca> but that is you, personally.

[20:48] <jarnos> charlie-tca, volume control can be handled to some extent by conventional mixer in panel.

[20:48] <charlie-tca> Most of the users really prefer the mixer, and having the chat application.

[20:49] <charlie-tca> the mixer takes the same space, whether in notification area or indicator panel

[20:49] <charlie-tca> it is just a speaker icon

[20:49] <jarnos> charlie-tca, no, there is a lot of space between the icons in the indicator plugin.

[20:50] <charlie-tca> Truth be told, looking at my 11.04 and 10.04 side by side at the same resolution, it took more space for network manager applet and mixer in 10.04

[20:51] <jarnos> indicator plugin does not offer configuration

[20:51] <Mandrew> charlie-tca, i think he says that there is a lot of space between the icons

[20:51] <charlie-tca> We must always look at the overall user experience, not a single user. Every user is free to change the defaults

[20:52] <charlie-tca> Mandrew: I know, but 10.04 without indicator panel used more space than indicators do

[20:52] <Mandrew> i like that it makes it airy so to say

[20:52] <charlie-tca> You can remove indicator plugin and use the notification area instead.

[20:53] <jarnos> charlie-tca, when I removed the indicator plugin, I didn't get network manager in the notification area.

[20:54] <charlie-tca> I think you are correct. Ubuntu has tied network manager to indicators.

[20:54] <charlie-tca> And they may even tie more to them. We are not going to rebuild every app to undo what they do.

[20:55] <charlie-tca> Again, as a individual, you are allowed to make changes that fit your work style.

[20:56] <jarnos> By the way, wouldn't Switch user be a nice default item in panel? Without it you can switch, it you lock screen and make a new login, though.

[20:56] <jarnos> I wonder why it is not in the session menu.

[20:56] <charlie-tca> Won't that take even more room in the panel?

[20:58] <charlie-tca> ochosi: what do you think of adding the user switcher plugin to the panel by default?

[20:58] <jarnos> No, if it is in Session Menu, which itself may take a lot of space depending on your user name.

[20:59] <charlie-tca> Not sure we can add to the session menu, anyone know the answer?

[21:00] <jarnos> Is there any sense of keeping both Session Menu and Log Out Dialog?

[21:01] <charlie-tca> huh?

[21:01] <Unit193> I'm now here and read up :/

[21:01] <charlie-tca> by default you don't have both

[21:01] <jarnos> If I remember right, Ubuntu had switch user in it before.

[21:02] <charlie-tca> Default is now session menu. If you have both, you probably should delete the old ~/.config and ~/.cache and rebuild things

[21:02] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu doesn't use the xfce session menu, it uses gnome stuff, which is different

[21:03] <charlie-tca> So, not having an answer, and having taken the allotted hour for this now, we could pursue this better on the Mailing List

[21:03] <charlie-tca> I want to thank everyone for participating in the weekly meeting. Your participation is important to us!

[21:03] <Mandrew> i can logout under my name in the right corner and in the bottom of my "start menu", and i have a fresh install

[21:03] <charlie-tca> The next meeting will be Sunday, July 3rd, at 22:00 UTC.

[21:03] <charlie-tca> Let's go update Team Reports!

[21:04] <charlie-tca> Mandrew: that's different

[21:04] <Mandrew> ok

[21:04] <charlie-tca> log out dialog is a quit button

[21:04] <charlie-tca> which the session menu replaced

[21:04] <charlie-tca> You can see the log out dialogs by using right-click on the panel, panel, logout

[21:05] <charlie-tca> which is a builtin for Xfce

[21:05] <Mandrew> ok cool

[21:07] <charlie-tca> ENDMEETING

Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-06-27 (last edited 2011-06-28 15:41:31 by charlie-tca)