2009-10-21

Agenda

  • Translation sharing between Ubuntu and upstream projects hosted in LP (AdiRoiban)

    • Now that we have message sharing between ubuntu series, see if we can share those translations between Ubuntu and upstream projects hosted in LP

  • Status and feedback about Ubuntu Translations project (AdiRoiban)

    • bugs handling
    • answer tracking
    • procees documentation for translators and developers

  • Indentifying the source package/template from UI strings (AdiRoiban)

    • see if we can have in LP a search feature that will look in all templates for a language
    • see how we can identify strings that are not marked for translations

  • Translating Ubuntu Docs, help files, training materials ... etc (AdiRoiban)

    • feedback regarding the current ubuntu-docs translation process
    • see how we can translate help files and other docs and training materials

  • start.ubuntu.com and the links from there (TimoJyrinki)

    • mailing list post - in summary, l10n of Participate page and "l10n" of the Help link URL (if deemed proper), how to escalat

  • Testing for Translations (DavidPlanella)

    • Cross session Translations/QA about test cases for translations. We could come up with a good blueprint for Lucid to add those kind of cases to the ISO tracker.

  • Use of the translation statistics (DavidPlanella)

    • We haven't got a Launchpad Translations API, but for gathering translations statistics, template names, etc, we've got daily updated data here -> https://devpad.canonical.com/~danilo/ubuntu/ (see http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/stats/ for a not updated copy if you can't access that page)

    • What can we do with that data?
      • Providing stats based on distro
      • Provide diferent views of templates, e.g. package sets (with links to LP for the actual translations)
      • ...

  • Defining the UTC team actions (DavidPlanella)

    • Some of the actions the UTC is responsible for are already documented at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuTranslationsCoordinators#Actions. These might need to be expanded and perhaps we can also come up with a schedule on when to do the regular actions. Also there are some actions only David and Arne can do right now, should they be expanded to the whole group?

      • Changing translation focus in Launchpad
      • Requesting language pack exports
      • ...

  • Starting with Translations content (DavidPlanella)

    • The main entry point for new Ubuntu translators is Launchpad and the wiki pages
    • It would be very useful to have more dynamic content, such as tutorials/screencasts, which could also even be translated.

  • Translations Community roundtable (DavidPlanella)

  • doctemplate (KyleNitzsche)

    • A new/developing LP project (lp.net/doctemplate) that provides a documentation template that can be added to packages or used for stand alone docs. Source is docbook article or book. It's fully localizable (images and strings), with pdf, html, html-with-javascript and docbook outputs. Also, discuss integration with LP: translation work flow, and possible LP improvements: Documentation tab, Doc privileges and assignment (like translations), import/export to/from LP, LP for image localization, LP display of localized content.

Attendees

Summary

The summary page can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/UDS

Log

(21:00:17) dpm: so, hi everyone
(21:00:31) Mirv [n=tajyrink@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.mirv] a intrat în chat.
(21:00:31) adiroiban: hi
(21:00:46) dpm: #startmeeting
(21:00:47) MootBot: Meeting started at 13:00. The chair is dpm.
(21:00:47) MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
(21:00:53) dpm: welcome everyone to this Ubuntu Translations meeting tonight
(21:00:53) dpm: first things first, let's see who' here?
(21:00:57) Mirv: o/
(21:01:10) adiroiban: o/
(21:01:10) dpm: hiya adiroiban, hey Mirv
(21:01:11) joskulj: hi, here
(21:01:17) adiroiban: :D
(21:01:20) dpm: hi joskulj!
(21:01:46) joskulj: hi everyone
(21:02:08) Ursinha: me
(21:02:31) dpm: hi Ursinha!
(21:02:38) Ursinha: hi dpm :)
(21:03:10) dpm: let's wait for a minute if there is anyone else turning up, and then we can start
(21:04:36) dpm: ok, let's get started, then
(21:04:49) markjones [n=markjone@client-82-2-113-132.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] a intrat în chat.
(21:05:19) dpm: so, we've got more people coming, welcome markjones
(21:05:23) dpm: As you know, the main point is discussing possible topics for translations sessions for the UDS -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2009-10-21
(21:05:35) adiroiban: dpm: do you know how many slots do we have for this UDS?
(21:05:46) dariusH [n=tv@cpc1-neat1-0-0-cust744.swan.cable.ntl.com] a intrat în chat.
(21:05:59) dpm: adiroiban, I don't know it yet
(21:06:14) ianto [n=chris@unaffiliated/ianto] a intrat în chat.
(21:06:33) huats a ieşit din chat (quit: "Ex-Chat")
(21:06:52) dpm: anyway, I see people have been adding topic suggestions already, so thanks a lot for the suggestions
(21:07:18) dpm: I think we can just start from that list, and people can comment on them
(21:07:33) dpm: how does that sound?
(21:08:01) Mirv: sounds fine
(21:08:08) dpm: also feel free to propose ideas as we go along
(21:08:27) brobostigon [n=ptaylor@cl-446.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] a intrat în chat.
(21:08:49) dpm: the idea is to have a good collection of topics to pick up
(21:09:16) dpm: and then decide which ones would be interesting for UDS.
(21:09:49) dpm: adiroiban, you've got the first topic on the list, would youlike to start with a short intro on that one?
(21:10:01) adiroiban: yep
(21:10:01) Moritz_B a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 113 (No route to host))
(21:10:41) adiroiban: but I think the Wiki description is complete
(21:10:43) adiroiban: :)
(21:11:09) dpm: just for the benefit of the presents and for the logs, then :)
(21:11:11) adiroiban: I would like a talk with Rosetta admin to see if someone can implement that feature
(21:11:38) adiroiban: now that Rosetta is opensource maybe we can have a blueprint for that
(21:12:02) dpm: so you are talking about message sharing between LP-hosted projects and distro packages
(21:12:18) adiroiban: this feature will be useful for projects like ubiquity-slideshow, UNR, ubuntu-start-page
(21:12:24) adiroiban: yes
(21:13:06) Mirv: and any non-ubuntu-specific ones as well potentially, like transmission. maybe optional.
(21:13:06) YDdraigGoch [n=Richie@unaffiliated/welshdragon] a intrat în chat.
(21:13:25) adiroiban: yes
(21:13:43) markjones: I feel it's a good idea, as Rosetta already offers suggestions for translations.
(21:13:44) adiroiban: since we already have message sharing between Ubuntu releases
marjo markjones 
(21:13:54) rafael_carreras_ [n=quassel@62.57.137.180.dyn.user.ono.com] a intrat în chat.
(21:14:03) adiroiban: and like markjones says, we have suggestions
(21:14:04) Moritz_B [n=Moritz@p549BB366.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] a intrat în chat.
(21:14:09) Mirv: though that needs a bit of care, and/or advocating - messages from "Open" permission projects shouldn't go to Ubuntu, and way too many LP projects have the permissions set like that instead of LP Translators / Structured
(21:14:31) dpm: I think it would definitely be an interesting feature, and something the LP translations team have thought about. It's only finding the resources to implement that :)
(21:14:49) adiroiban: Mirv: yep
(21:14:56) Steffen_Eibicht [n=steffen@dslb-088-069-042-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] a intrat în chat.
(21:15:48) adiroiban: ok. The second one should be a roundtable for the Ubuntu Translation Project
(21:16:01) dpm: The LP translations team is going to be focusing on upstream integration in the next months (see also https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg01361.html), so I think this feature might be out of focus for them^
(21:16:17) dpm: although I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss it
(21:16:33) dpm: and guide anyone who'd like to take the step to implement it
(21:16:45) dpm: what do you say, Ursinha?
(21:17:20) adiroiban: I was thinking this features is not that complicated to implement, and maybe we can find some resources in the community
(21:17:20) dpm: anyway, sorry we can move along to your second topic, just commenting on it
(21:17:29) Keybuk a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 113 (No route to host))
(21:17:36) RoAkSoAx a ieşit din chat (quit: "Leaving")
(21:17:39) Ursinha: dpm: I think it's pretty much what you said
(21:17:48) adiroiban: dpm: you know it best, and like I said, it's ok if we skip it
(21:18:02) dpm: adiroiban, it's a good idea (but remember that there is no such thing as "easy to implement" ;) )
(21:18:10) Ursinha: dpm: agreed :)
(21:18:17) adiroiban: :)
(21:19:25) rafael_carreras a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
(21:19:33) adiroiban: ok
(21:19:38) Mirv: if I'd have all the time in the world it'd be nice to get to know to LP code now that it's finally free
(21:20:11) adiroiban: third: Indentifying the source package/template from UI strings
(21:20:19) davmor2 a ieşit din chat (quit: "Leaving.")
(21:20:38) adiroiban: I would like to discuss if we can have that feature in Rosetta,
(21:20:45) adiroiban: or we should create a webapp for that
(21:20:47) adiroiban: or a desktop app
(21:21:07) dpm: Mirv, just one click away -> https://dev.launchpad.net/Getting :)
(21:21:17) adiroiban: there were many such request
(21:21:47) adiroiban: and we should see how we can help the translators
(21:21:57) Moritz_B a ieșit din chat.
(21:21:57) adiroiban: with these problems
(21:21:58) dpm: adiroiban, can you expand a bit more on this? I'm not sure I understand it from the wiki description
(21:22:22) adiroiban: like when you see a wrong translation
(21:22:28) adiroiban: but you are not sure where to translate it
(21:22:43) adiroiban: ex. "Password:" from gdm
(21:22:57) Ursinha: adiroiban: interesting, this question came up a few days ago and I didn't know the answer
(21:22:57) adiroiban: or you see some text that is not transalted
(21:23:13) adiroiban: and you dont know if that string is not translatable
(21:23:16) dpm: ok, I get it thanks
(21:23:25) adiroiban: or is just that it si not translated
(21:24:10) markjones: i get it too, so an app that highlights what hasn't been translated, yeah, another good idea, but can somebody make such a thing?
(21:24:46) moritz_baumann [n=moritz_b@p549BB366.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] a intrat în chat.
(21:24:51) dpm: Again, I'm not sure it will be possible to have that in LP, but might be interesting to explore creating an application for that
(21:24:59) adiroiban: yep
(21:25:05) markjones: (what i'm asking is that are there the resources to turn this idea into a application?)
(21:25:08) adiroiban: maybe we can have a prototype
(21:25:37) adiroiban: I am very keen to investigate this problem and help with coding and stuff
(21:25:54) dpm: the search string script Mirv posted on the list or the one with the same functionality in the ubuntu translator tools package can be used as a starting point
(21:26:09) markjones: I think it would be very useful, and can help with beta testing.
(21:26:15) dpm: and perhaps creating an ubuntu translations tool package
(21:26:19) adiroiban: yep
(21:26:20) Mirv: yeah, basically just a GUI etc. on top of that/those
(21:26:24) dpm: as we were talking earlier on
(21:26:54) dpm: with all useful tools for translators
(21:26:54) dpm: yes
(21:27:11) adiroiban: the session should gather some feedback
(21:27:17) adiroiban: and gather the requirements
(21:27:30) dpm: adiroiban, might be interesting to change that topic and make it more general, perhaps expanding it to other tools
(21:27:42) adiroiban: yep
(21:28:00) adiroiban: i will do that
(21:28:13) dpm: great, any other comments on that one?
(21:28:30) adiroiban: it can be Ubuntu translation tools 
(21:28:33) ari-tczew a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
(21:28:37) adiroiban: or tools for translators, etc
(21:28:37) dpm: sounds good
(21:28:56) adiroiban: Translating Ubuntu Docs, help files, training materials
(21:29:17) adiroiban: right now we have Ubuntu docs in place
(21:29:43) adiroiban: but I don't know if xubuntu-docs or kubuntu-docs are updated / translated properly
(21:30:02) adiroiban: also we have OpenOffice.org docs and gnome docs
(21:30:09) adiroiban: but I don't know if the are used
(21:30:15) adiroiban: and if translators are aware of that
(21:30:51) adiroiban: we now also have Ubuntu Desktop Course available for translations
(21:30:57) adiroiban: the idea of this session is to gather feedback
(21:31:17) adiroiban: and see how we can improve the current ubuntu docs/help/training translation process
(21:31:47) dpm: it sounds good to me, it might be interesting to have folks from the Documentation and Training teams
(21:32:08) Mirv: good thing, since it would also serve about who should be contacted so that eg. xubuntu-docs translations would actually be taken into use... and I'm not sure if kubuntu-docs package has been always cared about either
(21:32:08) adiroiban: yep, this is a common session with ubuntu-docs 
(21:32:16) dpm: IIRC some guys from the Docs team will be there on the last days
(21:33:12) dpm: ok, good stuff
(21:33:24) dpm: any other comments?
(21:33:53) adiroiban: i think we can continue :)
(21:34:03) dpm: Mirv, do you want to kick off your topic?
(21:34:48) Mirv: yes, well the user experience of start.ubuntu.com for non-English users is still not perfect, except if all you do is use the search. 9.10 has been quite silent on the ubuntu-website list.
(21:35:43) adiroiban: we also have these bugs https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-start-page
(21:35:48) adiroiban: that will need some love
(21:35:57) Mirv: and it's a co-operation between translators, docs team and the maybe bit hidden ubuntu-website team so if no-one does the initiative it seems not to take off by itself
(21:36:13) adiroiban: most of them are trivial, is just that we need to escalade them to someone with access to ubuntu.com servers
(21:36:59) Mirv: now that newz2000 has not been that active on the mailing list, there are virtually no people there discussing eg. any possible stuff done for 9.10, so I don't know if there are other people in the team eg. at Canonical or not
(21:37:46) dpm: I can try to find out more and post more info on that, and perhaps try to involve the relevant people in a shared session
(21:39:12) dpm: anyway, sounds good to me too, if there are no more comments, I'll go on to the next proposal
(21:39:19) Mirv: it could be even just part of a larger ubuntu website session, if only the website people are found. but yes go on.
(21:39:41) dpm: ok, yes, I'll try to find out more
(21:40:02) dpm: anyway, here's the next suggestion
(21:40:04) dpm: Testing for Translations
(21:40:09) adiroiban: just a second
(21:40:13) adiroiban: for that website session
(21:40:32) dpm: yes, sure, go on
(21:40:38) adiroiban: maybe we can have a session and also discuss if we can have some translations for support and participate pages
(21:40:54) adiroiban: as right now they are in english
(21:41:14) adiroiban: and the support page it very important to be translated
(21:41:19) Mirv: yes, my idea included those, since they are linked from star.ubuntu.com
(21:41:20) adiroiban: and to provide local resources
(21:41:25) adiroiban: :)
(21:41:36) adiroiban: just to be sure
(21:41:43) Mirv: and like I listed in the mailing list post, there are several options
(21:41:45) adiroiban: done. dpm, please 
(21:41:59) dpm: adiroiban, good idea. Can you add an additional point to Mirv's topic in the wiki with your suggestions?
dantaliz1ng dantalizing dariusH Darxus dashua davidm Daviey dk__ DKcross dlmarti doko__ dpm dthacker dyfet 
(21:42:12) adiroiban: dpm: ok
(21:42:13) dpm: Testing for Translations
(21:42:31) dpm: Cross session Translations/QA about test cases for translations. We could come up with a good blueprint for Lucid to add those kind of cases to the ISO tracke
(21:42:36) dpm: r
(21:42:50) dpm: it's about having a formal process for testing translations
(21:42:58) dpm: before it's too late in the cycle
(21:43:34) dpm: the idea is to think about translations-related testcases that could go on (let me find the link...)
(21:43:38) adiroiban: yep, I was thinking about translation testing
(21:43:58) dpm: http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/
(21:43:58) MootBot: LINK received:  http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/
(21:43:59) adiroiban: but I have now idea how we can describe it in a formal manner
(21:44:05) adiroiban: or structured way
(21:44:25) Mirv: are those automatic testing cases or manually done?
(21:44:35) Mirv: manual, right
(21:44:41) adiroiban: i think manual
(21:44:46) dpm: adiroiban, you can have a look at some of the test cases in there ^
(21:44:50) komputes [n=komputes@unaffiliated/komputes] a intrat în chat.
(21:45:05) adiroiban: do we have test cases for translations ?
(21:45:33) dpm: adiroiban, not formal ones, that'd be the purpose of the session
(21:45:41) Mirv: I think those are a good idea. We have many regressions each release which are simply found by doing a simple virtualbox installation and looking around.
(21:46:00) dpm: yes
(21:46:16) adiroiban: yep, I was saying that I don't know how we can have a formal testcase for translation
(21:46:24) dpm: but I think if we could formalize those we could get more testing coverage
(21:46:38) adiroiban: rather, just to a install / usage test case with the localized version of Ubuntu
(21:47:09) adiroiban: and we will need some translators to get involved in the QA part
(21:47:22) Steffen_Eibicht: 5i
(21:47:40) dpm: adiroiban, for example something along the lines of http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/d18df45d
(21:47:47) dpm: (as an example of a test)
(21:48:01) asac_ [n=asac@e177165094.adsl.alicedsl.de] a intrat în chat.
(21:48:13) dpm: the idea is that not only translators could do the test
(21:48:13) adiroiban: they are just smoke tests
(21:48:28) adiroiban: as we can have some wrong translations
(21:48:32) adiroiban: anyway
(21:48:44) adiroiban: we sure can discuss this durring UDS, togheter with QA team
(21:48:52) dpm: adiroiban, these tests do catch errors
(21:48:55) adiroiban: as they have more experience with testing
(21:49:26) dpm: and I think having tests will definitely be an improvement over the current situation
(21:49:53) Mirv: testing for I18N bugs has its problems, since it's so hard to tell whether something is untranslated or untranslatable during the development period. but some tests would probably still definitely improve the situation.
(21:50:16) Mirv: or maybe not that hard for us, but for mechanical testing purposes
(21:50:48) dpm: I agree, I think it is something we can discuss with the testing team.
(21:51:14) adiroiban: I am quite happy with the bug reports we got from Ubuntu translators during this cycle
(21:51:53) dpm: adiroiban, I am too, but that would be an additional chack
(21:51:54) adiroiban: and I think our developers had a lot of i18n bugs reported
(21:51:58) dpm: check
(21:52:13) adiroiban: o
(21:52:14) adiroiban: ok
(21:52:46) Mirv: we would need I18N-enthusiastic developers, in addition to us... who like to hunt such things. for many developer I18N is a burden, not something fun.
(21:53:24) adiroiban: yep
(21:53:32) Mirv: eg. get at least some non-English developers to use their Ubuntu in their native language
(21:53:45) Mirv: and tell that any English they see is a bug :)
(21:53:55) ember [n=pmf@ubuntu/member/ember] a intrat în chat.
(21:54:19) rafael_carreras_ a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
(21:54:26) dpm: Mirv, in many cases is also lack of documentation resources on translation. We've got https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation for developers as reference
(21:54:35) dpm: but it still needs some expansion
(21:54:48) adiroiban: or encourage Ubuntu developers to improve their foreign language skils and use Ubuntu in ES
(21:54:51) adiroiban: for ex :)
(21:54:54) dpm: haha
(21:55:09) Mirv: adiroiban: heh, that too :)
(21:55:16) adiroiban: ok
(21:55:20) mvo a ieşit din chat (quit: "Ex-Chat")
(21:55:23) dpm: anyway, we've only got a few minutes left
(21:55:26) adiroiban: I think we can go the the next topic
(21:56:04) dpm: shall I go on to the next topic or would anyone like to suggest any other ones they might have thought of?
(21:56:47) adiroiban: https://devpad.canonical.com/~danilo/ubuntu/ is not available for normal users
(21:56:53) dpm: Note that I'll move all the topics from the wiki to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityTeam/UDS, where I started adding mine
(21:57:01) adiroiban: ok
(21:57:04) Mirv: I only had testing in mind additionally when we started but it was already on the list, so no...
(21:57:11) Lure [n=quassel@ubuntu/member/lure] a intrat în chat.
(21:57:21) dpm: adiroiban, yes, we know it, danilo is going to have a look into that, as I mentioned back then on the ML
(21:57:30) dpm: it's just a technical issue
(21:58:09) adiroiban: are we going to have a Rosetta feedback session ?
(21:58:28) adiroiban: together with Rosetta devs?
(21:58:28) dpm: adiroiban, we can have it :)
(21:58:31) asac a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
(21:58:31) asac_ este acum asac
(21:58:48) dpm: adiroiban, danilo and Ursinha are going to be there, so that's definitely possible
(21:59:06) adiroiban: yep, that would be great
(21:59:32) dpm: perhaps not only feedback but also info from them
(21:59:43) dpm: on what they'll be working
(21:59:46) st33med [n=st33med@ubuntu/member/st33med] a intrat în chat.
(21:59:48) dpm: in the net few months
(22:00:24) st33med a ieşit din chat (quit: Remote closed the connection)
(22:00:31) imlad este acum imlad|away
(22:00:31) dpm: anyway, as I say, I'll move the topics to the general topics page (or perhaps to the Translations wiki and a link to it)
(22:00:38) adiroiban: and thank them for their hard work :)
(22:00:43) Mirv: fine
(22:00:47) dpm: we can still continue the discussion on the ML
(22:00:54) adiroiban: ok
(22:00:59) dpm: or organize another meeting if necessary
(22:01:22) adiroiban: dpm: i suppose you will handle session planing
(22:01:23) st33med [n=st33med@ubuntu/member/st33med] a intrat în chat.
(22:01:38) adiroiban: I think it will be enough if you inform us what sessions were accepted
(22:01:43) adiroiban: or if we have spare slots
(22:01:46) dpm: adiroiban, on translations, yes
(22:01:49) adiroiban: yep
(22:01:51) adiroiban: for translations
(22:01:59) dpm: of course, I can do that
(22:02:24) jono a ieşit din chat (quit: "Ex-Chat")
(22:02:27) dpm: anyway, that only leaves thanking you all for your participation
(22:02:34) Mirv: some can be then combined if needed
(22:02:41) dpm: and the usual great feedback and ideas
(22:02:48) Mirv: thanks to you all for your work
(22:03:00) sbeattie a ieşit din chat (quit: Read error: 113 (No route to host))
(22:03:07) dpm: have a nice evening and see you all soon!
(22:03:28) st33med a ieşit din chat (quit: Remote closed the connection)
(22:03:30) dpm: #endmeeting
(22:03:30) MootBot: Meeting finished at 14:03.
(22:04:05) dpm: good night!

CategoryTranslations

Translations/Meetings/2009-10-21 (last edited 2009-10-22 19:07:07 by h194-54-129-79)