2009-07-02

Agenda

  • Opening of Karmic translations (DavidPlanella)

  • Kubuntu translations (DavidPlanella)

  • Language pack update policy (DavidPlanella)

  • Ubuntu Translations Project (AdiRoiban)

    • Documenting the Project
    • Cooperation with Bug Triage and people involved in Ubuntu Answers
    • Announcing the project
  • [DEFERRED] GNOME help files shipped verbatim in language packs

  • [DEFERRED] Communication within the localization teams (EvanRMurphy)

  • [DEFERRED] Reverting old translations to packaged ones (Danilo)

Attendees

Summary

Opening of Karmic translations

Danilo reported on the status of Karmic translations. The Launchpad Translations team is currently in the process of importing all translations from packages into Karmic (there's quite a lot of them, ca. 35000, from which around 10000 have already been imported). This process will be finished some time next week, after which Karmic translations will be open. Following that, language pack tarballs will start being provided and Arne will package them for testing.

Karmic will be the first release to see the new "Message Sharing" feature be put into production. In short, what this means is that translations will be shared between different series (like Jaunty and Karmic), so as soon as someone translates one string in Jaunty, if it's in Karmic, it will appear as translated there as well; and vice versa. There will be no lag or latency between the string being translated into Jaunty and the translation being copied to Karmic, it is an instant process.

For the moment, Jaunty and Karmic (and all future ones) will initially be the only shared Ubuntu releases, but the Launchpad Translations team will slowly enable message sharing for Intrepid and Hardy as well. Internally, Karmic translations are up and sharing with Jaunty.

This will be announced in more detail in due time, but for Ubuntu translators the important thing to have in mind is that this feature will start being used for the first time in Karmic, so it is very important to get it tested throughout the development cycle, and if they see any bug in translations, they should report them soon.

Kubuntu translations

David reported on the progress of the process of improving Kubuntu translations: we've started working with the Kubuntu developers to sort out some technical issues we've had with KDE translations and Launchpad Translations. ScottK and evanrmurphy commented they were glad to see the progress.

The first step is to make sure the translation templates we've got in Launchpad match those in KDE upstream, in order to be able to avoid untranslated applications in the distro. For those interested in the details, the discussion is happening in this thread -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-June/002964.html, and anyone with experience in translations and KDE should feel welcome to participate.

We're also planning a Kubuntu Translations Day on #kubuntu-devel, which will probably be in about a month's time (final date to be announced).

  • Quintasan asked about the general deadline for translations, to which he was pointed out to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule (the two important deadlines for translators are Oct 15th and Oct 22nd), and that in general the final language-packs are built about one week before release. Everything what comes in later than that goes into the updates.

  • Adi asked whether Arne was currently renaming and moving the KDE templates. Arne assented and replied that if the question was about the approvals in the imports queue, the UTC team members could already start approving. However, they should be careful with KDE-related templates. We need to check back with kubuntu-devel on what to do with them. Arne is also planning to check out the OO.o templates with Chris Cheney, so for now they should not be approved, either.
  • Danilo noted that for that process to work better with message sharing, Arne should make sure that he renames the Jaunty templates at the same time or just provide the Launchpad Translations team with a list so they can do a bulk rename. Arne replied that the current topic was about the changes between Jaunty and Karmic, and that the templates in Jaunty must stay like they are.

Language pack update policy

We discussed about drafting a language pack update policy, a topic which was discussed at UDS. We currently release regular language pack updates for the stable distributions (Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty). They are usually uploaded to the -proposed repository and then to -updates, which is when they are made available to all users. This prevents regressions and security problems to creep into the stable releases.

In order for those packages to go to -updates, we need some minimal testing and feedback from users or translators. This procedure has not worked very well in the past: there is little to no feedback from users after an update, which has caused these updates to often either sit for a long time in the -proposed queue or not to be released at frequent intervals.

The proposal is to enable a more active approach to testing and feedback by providing a simple signoff mechanism, with which only language packs from those teams who have provided feedback will be uploaded. In this way, the other team's updates will not be blocked and teams will know that if they want to get regular updates, they will have to test them.

An initial draft has been started: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA. It is very simple at the moment, but it should get the process going. Basically, updates will be announced on the ubuntu-translators list and teams will add their signoff at the end of the page once they've tested the language pack. After the window for providing feedback has elapsed, the language packs in the list will be uploaded to -updates.

  • Adi mentioned that he'd rather continue with the current process. Arne replied that this has not worked so far, and that he did not get any response when announcing updates.

  • Another concern was with LTS releases, since translators will probably be using a more current version. David and Arne replied that it should be easy to set up a virtual machine with VirtualBox or a similar software to test them. Arne does in fact use that kind of setup.

  • RicardoPerez and evanrmurphy found this new process would be helpful. evanrmurphy's only concern was that strict signoffs might add another hurdle to translation implementation, but in any case having a QA process in place is very important.

  • Adi was also concerned that it might not be worth having a too simple test, but others replied that at least crashes and regressions (e.g. untranslated applications) can be detected with simple tests..
  • We should encourage translators to use the daily langpacks PPA in addition to having the -updates repository enabled.

We can see how this new process goes and discuss it further in the mailing list or in the next meeting.

Ubuntu Translations Project

Adi explained the purpose of the new Ubuntu Translations project in Launchpad (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations): it was created as a hub for all l10n/i18n issues, and to relieve Launchpad Translations from bugs which are only relevant to Ubuntu.

RicardoPerez pointed out he's filed many i18n bug reports in the past and that they are very often marked as "Low" priority by developers. Danilo then pointed out that that's the reason why there's a team and a project now to better coordinate that and poke other developers, and that the bugs can always be pushed upstream.

ArneGoetje also noted that it is best not to report bugs against the language packs themselves, since there are too many of them, but rather to open a bug in the Ubuntu Translations project bug tracker at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations

The discussion then moved on how to file i18n bugs and why it had been decided to do it that way. It was decided that i18n/l10n bugs should be filed against both the application and the ubuntu-translations project, and add the appropriate i18n or l10n tags. It has to be remarked that the most important thing though, is to report them against ubuntu-translations (e.g. through bug tasks, i.e. the "Also affects project" field). Only this way we can make use of the idea of the project being a hub for translation issues: those interested in translations can subscribe to the project's bugs feed (which is not possible in the case of tags).

Adi also pointed out that beside filing bugs we should also handle bug triage, so that triagers (and translators, developers and 5-a-day'ers) are aware of the process. RicardoPerez mentioned that we should announce this on the ubuntu-translators@ mailing list, and Danilo that it should also go to a Ubuntu translation instructions as linked from all the translate pages on Launchpad. Adi finally offered to summarise the bug reporting and triaging processes in the wiki.

The discussion can be continued either in the next meeting or in the mailing list.

Log

[15:57] <evanrmurphy> I'd be happy to raise it myself except that unfortunately I'm not sure I'd be able to explain the problem clearly.
[15:57] <RicardoPerez> evanrmurphy: well, we can talk about the jaunty -> karmic translations dumping with adi & david...
[15:57] <evanrmurphy> sounds good
[15:57] <RicardoPerez> I'll try it :)
[15:58] <RicardoPerez> we'll try it *
[15:59] <evanrmurphy> :)
[15:59] <dpm> hi everybody!
[15:59] <ArneGoetje> hi folks!
[15:59] <RicardoPerez> dpm: hi ;)
[15:59] <adiroiban> ola :)
[15:59] <danilos> hi guys :)
[15:59] <evanrmurphy> morning!
[16:00] <RicardoPerez> well, hi and "hola" to everyone :)
[16:00] <dpm> how are you all guys doing?
[16:00] <henninge> Hallo!
[16:00] <dpm> be very welcome to the first Ubuntu Translations meeting ever ;) !
[16:00] <dpm> \o/
[16:01] <Quintasan> \o
[16:01] <RicardoPerez> we're history! :P
=== adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 15.00 UTC - Ubuntu Translations Meeting - Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/Events/Meetings
[16:01]  * evanrmurphy does a slow clap
[16:01] <dpm> thanks Adi for taking care of the topic changes
[16:02] <dpm> we've got the Launchpad Translations team and Arne Goetje with us, and hopefully a whole bunch of translators and folks interested in translating Ubuntu as well
[16:02] <dpm> I'm not sure how many of us are there, but I don't think there will be need for moderation
[16:03] <dpm> therefore, please feel free to interrupt whenever you want to ask or comment anything
[16:03] <danilos> yeah, hello all from LP Translations team, here represented by henninge and me :)
[16:03]  * dpm claps loudly
[16:03] <henninge> yeah, jtv went to bed already...
[16:03] <henninge> ;-)
[16:03] <evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez, fmolinero and I are here representing the Ubuntu Spanish Translators.
[16:04] <dpm> great
[16:04] <dpm> fantástico
[16:04] <evanrmurphy> :)
[16:04] <RicardoPerez> hehe
[16:04] <ArneGoetje> and for those who don't know me, I'm doing the technical stuff regarding language-pack building.
[16:04] <RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: great work!
[16:05] <evanrmurphy> +1
[16:05]  * dpm applauds Arne as well
[16:05] <adiroiban> dpm: feel free to hit the first topic
[16:05] <dpm> ok, shall we get started?
[16:06] <dpm> == Opening of Karmic translations ==
[16:06] <adiroiban> yep. so message sharing is up and running ?
[16:06] <dpm> The LP Translations team is working very hard in opening the Karmic translations
[16:07] <danilos> ok, I'll share more details
[16:07] <danilos> internally, karmic translations are up and sharing with jaunty
[16:07] <henninge> yeah!
[16:08] <ArneGoetje> \o/
[16:08] <danilos> we are currently in the process of importing all translations from packages into karmic before we can start producing karmic language packs and allow translations to happen
[16:08] <RicardoPerez> I wonder if a translation made in Jaunty now will be copied to Karmic
[16:08] <dpm> just a sec, does everyone here knows what message sharing is?
[16:08] <danilos> there are a lot of files to import (~35k, we've already done around 10k)
[16:08]  * Quintasan raises his hand at dpm's question\\
[16:09] <danilos> RicardoPerez: that's what message sharing is all about: in short, they will be shared between different series (like Jaunty and Karmic)
[16:09] <danilos> RicardoPerez: so, as soon as you translate one string in Jaunty, if it's in Karmic, it will appear as translated there as well; and vice versa
[16:09] <RicardoPerez> dpm, danilos: oh, great! I don't know what message sharing is
[16:09] <danilos> RicardoPerez: heh, see above :)
[16:10] <danilos> you can talk to me on #launchpad if you want more details afterwards
[16:10] <dpm> And this works both ways! I can translate the string in Jaunty and it will automatically appear translated in Karmic.
[16:10] <RicardoPerez> danilos: so, if I translate a string in Jaunty, that translation will be copied in Karmic even several weeks ago since the Karmic translations opening?
[16:10] <evanrmurphy> I wasn't familiar either, but that sounds really efficient.
[16:10] <dpm> RicardoPerez: ^
[16:10] <RicardoPerez> I asked a question already answered :)
[16:10] <danilos> RicardoPerez: yes
[16:11] <dpm> And for the moment, sharing will only be enabled for Karmic and Jaunty
[16:11] <RicardoPerez> well, that sounds really great
[16:11] <fmolinero> great
[16:11] <evanrmurphy> Is message sharing a new feature?
[16:11] <danilos> anyway, Jaunty and Karmic will initially be the only shared Ubuntu releases (and all future ones), but we'll slowly enable it for Intrepid and Hardy as well
[16:11] <henninge> evanrmurphy: yes
[16:11] <dpm> evanrmurphy: yes, starting with Karmic
[16:11] <danilos> evanrmurphy: yeah, it has not even been announced yet properly :)
[16:11] <dpm> This will be announced in more detail in due time, but for Ubuntu translators the important thing to have in mind is that this feature will start being used for the first time in Karmic,
[16:11] <evanrmurphy> how exciting!
[16:12] <dpm> so it is very important to get it tested throughout the development cycle, and if you see any bug in translations, you should report it soon
[16:12] <danilos> exactly!
[16:12] <RicardoPerez> is there a "lag" or latency between the string is translated into Jaunty and the translation being copied to Karmic?
[16:12] <danilos> anyway, back to the topic :)
[16:12] <RicardoPerez> oh, sorry about the offtopic
[16:12] <danilos> Karmic translations will be open sometime next week, as soon as imports are done
[16:13] <dpm> \o/
[16:13] <henninge> RicardoPerez: no lag, it is instant
[16:13] <RicardoPerez> henninge: thanks! that's great
[16:13] <danilos> when that happens, we'll also start producing language pack tarballs which ArneGoetje will package for everybody to play with
[16:14] <danilos> are there any questions about Karmic opening, or shall we move on? :)
[16:14] <dpm> let's move on then, we've got a long agenda :)
[16:14] <RicardoPerez> congrats to the superb work
[16:14] <dpm> == Kubuntu translations ==
[16:14] <dpm> After what we talked at UDS, we've kickstarted the process of making Kubuntu translations ...
[16:15] <dpm> ... well, rock!
[16:15] <dpm> We're working with the Kubuntu devs to sort out some technical issues we've had with KDE translations and Launchpad Translations, and I'm pretty excited about the outcome.
[16:16] <dpm> For those interested in the gory details, you can follow this thread later on -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2009-June/002964.html
[16:16]  * ScottK is glad to see the progress.
[16:16] <dpm> The first step is to make sure the translation templates we've got in Launchpad match those in KDE
[16:17] <dpm> so that Kubuntu users don't get untranslated applications as it's happened in the past
[16:17] <evanrmurphy> I'm glad to see progress here too, always feel like I have to tiptoe around KDE translations.
[16:18] <dpm> yes, we will welcome the help of anyone interested or experienced in Kubuntu/KDE translations
[16:18] <dpm> translators, devs, etc
[16:19] <dpm> feel free to participate in the discussion on the kubuntu-devel@ list or at ubuntu-translators@
[16:19] <dpm> or to put any related items in the agenda for the next meeting
[16:19] <dpm> Also we're also planning a Kubuntu Translations Day on #kubuntu-devel, which will probably be in about a month's time (final date to be announced).
[16:20] <dpm> any feedback will be welcome
[16:21] <dpm> Are there any particular issues/comments you'd like to discuss right now?
[16:21] <dpm> related to Kubuntu translations?
[16:21] <adiroiban> so right now arne is renaming and moving templates?
[16:21] <ArneGoetje> yes
[16:22] <danilos> ArneGoetje: for that to work better with message sharing, can you make sure you rename jaunty templates at the same time? or just provide us a list and we can do a bulk rename
[16:22] <ArneGoetje> danilos: No, this is about the changes between Jaunty and Karmic. the templates in Jaunty have to stay like they are.
[16:23] <adiroiban> ArneGoetje: If you need help with Kubuntu let me know and see how we can coordinate
[16:24] <Quintasan> The deadline for translation is 15th of October?
[16:24] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: will do
[16:24] <dpm> Quintasan: the you can see the release schedule here -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicReleaseSchedule
[16:25] <dpm> Quintasan: the two important deadlines are Oct 15th and Oct 22nd
[16:25] <adiroiban> for the Karmic approval, should we start to work on them now, or wait until the translations are opened
[16:25] <adiroiban> ?
[16:25] <ArneGoetje> Quintasan: in general, we will build the final language-packs about one week before release. Everything what comes in later than that goes into the updates.
[16:26]  * Quintasan starts preparation for translating then
[16:26] <dpm> ArneGoetje: I think you might be best suited to answer Adi's question
[16:27] <danilos> adiroiban: I think ArneGoetje emailed utc team with that
[16:27] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: if you are talking about the approvals in the import queue, you can start now. However, be careful with KDE related templates. We need to check back with kubuntu-devel on what to do with them.
[16:28] <dpm> thanks Arne. Ok, shall we move on?
[16:28] <adiroiban> ArneGoetje: I will not touch KDE for now, but I will handle the others (mainly help and man files)
[16:29] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: also, I want to review the oo.o templates with Chris Cheney, so better don't touch them either for now.
[16:29] <adiroiban> ok
[16:29] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: help and man get blocked, we cannot handle them in language-packs.
[16:30] <adiroiban> yep, I know, and those are the easiest one to handle in the "needs review" list
[16:30] <adiroiban> from my point of view we can continue
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: heh
[16:30] <dpm> ok, thanks
[16:30] <dpm> == Language pack update policy ==
[16:30] <dpm> Something else we talked about at UDS was about the regular language pack releases
[16:31] <dpm> for stable releases
[16:31] <dpm> they are usually uploaded to the -proposed repository
[16:31] <dpm> and then to -updates, where they are made available for all users
[16:32] <dpm> in order to move them from -proposed to -updates, we need some testing and feedback
[16:32] <dpm> in order to avoid crashes, regressions, etc
[16:32] <danilos> (to explain that further: "for stable releases" means after Karmic is released)
[16:33] <dpm> yes
[16:33] <ArneGoetje> also for existing stable releases (Hardy, Intrepid, Jaunty).
[16:34] <RicardoPerez> Dapper, too?
[16:34] <dpm> Is Dapper still in Launchpad?
[16:34] <evanrmurphy> yep
[16:34] <ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: no, we don't provide language-pack updates for Dapper anymore, because noone tests them.
[16:34] <danilos> dpm: if it's supported, it is :)
[16:35] <dpm> ah yes, I see it now
[16:35] <RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: ok
[16:35] <adiroiban> for my point of view we can continue with the current policy and procees. Arne will announce on the Ubuntu Translators MP the new packages in proposed (maybe also a post on planet) and people will test and ping arne if everything is OK
[16:35] <adiroiban> or open bugs if there are problems
[16:35] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: unfortunately that hasn't worked well in the past. I didn't get any response at all.
[16:36] <adiroiban> ArneGoetje: I know
[16:36] <dpm> adiroiban: yes, and that's what we were discussing in the UDS session
[16:36] <adiroiban> but In that case we should not update that language
[16:36] <danilos> yeah, "if you do not sign off on a proposed language pack for your language, it will not be promoted"
[16:37] <dpm> I've started a (still very crude) page to document the process and to track signoffs from users/translators -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
[16:37] <ArneGoetje> +1
[16:37] <RicardoPerez> adiroiban: well, sometimes "no response" means "tested and nothing was wrong, so its good" :)
[16:37] <adiroiban> it will be hard to find people to test translations for LTS
[16:37] <danilos> RicardoPerez: that is fine for development releases
[16:37] <evanrmurphy> adiroiban: Why is that?
[16:38] <adiroiban> RicardoPerez: but may also imply that nobody had review it
[16:38] <dpm> adiroiban: yes, but we must start from somewhere and we can focus on stable releases first
[16:38] <RicardoPerez> adiroiban: yes, that's right, too
[16:38] <dpm> an option might be to use virtual images for LTS
[16:38] <dpm> I mean for testing them
[16:38] <adiroiban> evanrmurphy: most translators are using stable or dev on their system... and is hard to install or test LTS
[16:39]  * evanrmurphy nods
[16:39] <dpm> but the point is that we should take a mora active approach to get signoffs for updates
[16:39] <ArneGoetje> I think it's not a big deal to use Virtualbox or another VM and run a copy of Hardy, Intrepid or Jaunty in there and test the language-packs... I do that myself.
[16:39] <adiroiban> but that would be just a very thin smoke test
[16:39] <RicardoPerez> the Ubuntu Translators Teams could be a good starting point for langpack testing
[16:40] <dpm> yes, and I think if we only upload those packages which have been explicitly signed off will encourage other teams to provide signoffs as well
[16:40] <adiroiban> I consider a translation-update teste after testing it for at least one day of regular usage
[16:40] <adiroiban> like starting firefox,  setting up pidgin, evolution
[16:41] <danilos> adiroiban: we should not strive for perfection right away
[16:41] <adiroiban> :)
[16:41] <danilos> adiroiban: but, if we can come up with a good checklist of things to check for, that will be more than enough
[16:41] <dpm> adiroiban: yes, that's something you can put in there https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/LanguagePackUpdatesQA
[16:41] <adiroiban> then just put the packates into -updates and wait for bug report
[16:42] <danilos> adiroiban: sometimes translations cause security problems, and that's not something ubuntu developers want to allow
[16:42] <danilos> adiroiban: I somehow remember you being in a UDS session about this as well :)
[16:42] <RicardoPerez> if I (suppose) tested the proposed langpacks and see that they're good, how can I send my feedback and to whom?
[16:42] <adiroiban> but a thin smoketest will not detect those security problems
[16:43] <adiroiban> and most translators testers are not the right person to do the security testing
[16:43] <danilos> adiroiban: others have caused some apps to be completely untranslated
[16:43] <dpm> RicardoPerez: we can track them in the wiki page above, you can just add your team to the list
[16:43] <danilos> adiroiban: it's mostly about testing for regressions in translations
[16:43] <RicardoPerez> dpm: sounds good
[16:43] <dpm> And each upload to -proposed will be notified to ubuntu-translators@
[16:44] <dpm> so that translators/users know when they can start testing
[16:44] <RicardoPerez> great, that's exactly what it must be done :)
[16:44] <evanrmurphy> dpm: That will be helpful.
[16:44] <dpm> I know it's not a perfect process in which it is not very automated, but we can try to refine it as we go along
[16:45] <adiroiban> ok. let's see if we can improve something
[16:45] <evanrmurphy> Strict signoffs make me nervous because it adds another hurdle to translation implementation.
[16:45] <evanrmurphy> But QA is very important.
[16:45] <adiroiban> but my view is that if we are only going to run some smoke test on translations, it's better to just copy them to -updates
[16:45] <adiroiban> as the smoke test will not be of much help
[16:45] <dpm> evanrmurphy: yes, but crashes and untranslated apps are annoying for users (to say the least)
[16:45] <RicardoPerez> regression issues for me are the worst, and I always take a deep look about that after a new langpacks update
[16:45] <danilos> adiroiban: well, translation updates can cause crashes as well, those can easily be detected by a quick test
[16:46] <ScottK> Enough people run with -proposed enabled that even without formal testing you'll get some signficant benifit.
[16:46] <dpm> ScottK: yes, but we have to somehow know that people are using -updates
[16:46] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: no. in the past we had cases where the -proposed packages had a bug that caused firefox end up untranslated. We don't want to have those in -updates.
[16:46] <evanrmurphy> RicardoPerez: That's good to know!
[16:47] <adiroiban> Maybe, rather that ask translators to test proposed, we should ask for using the weekly lang-packs
[16:47] <RicardoPerez> a weak test is better than no test at all
[16:47] <adiroiban> in this way we can detect errors earliers
[16:47] <adiroiban> early
[16:47] <RicardoPerez> +1 for the weekly langpacks
[16:48] <danilos> adiroiban: that's orthogonal to that... using weekly builds is recommended for any active translators
[16:48] <dpm> adiroiban: yes, we can do this additionally as well
[16:48] <RicardoPerez> weekly langpacks has been very useful in the past
[16:48] <adiroiban> I'm using the weekly builds for the current stable release
[16:48] <danilos> adiroiban: but, if there's no actual input, how do you know that someone is using them, and they haven't said anything, or that nobody is using them?
[16:49] <danilos> anyway, this is a topic that can be rehashed a bit more
[16:49] <adiroiban> ok
[16:49] <danilos> let's talk about it some more next week, and move on to Ubuntu Translations Project
[16:49] <adiroiban> we can continue on the mailing list
[16:49] <dpm> yes
[16:49] <RicardoPerez> is there a jaunty weekly langpacks=
[16:49] <RicardoPerez> ?
[16:49] <adiroiban> it should
[16:49] <danilos> adiroiban: next topic is yours :)
[16:49] <dpm> Ricardo: yes
[16:49] <dpm> == Ubuntu Translations Project (AdiRoiban) ==
[16:49] <adiroiban> :)
[16:50] <adiroiban> is ours :)
[16:50] <adiroiban> ok
[16:50] <ArneGoetje> ok, about bug reporting: I think it's best to *not* report bugs abainst the language-packs themselves (too many of them!), but rather open a bug in the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker.
[16:50] <adiroiban> I agree
[16:51] <adiroiban> so we have Ubuntu Translation as a hub for all l10n/i18n issues
[16:51] <ArneGoetje> yes
[16:51] <RicardoPerez> I would like to point about the many many i18n bugreports I opened in the past
[16:51] <adiroiban> and also to leverage Rosetta of Ubuntu problems
[16:51] <ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: against which packages?
[16:51] <evanrmurphy> ArneGoetje: Where is the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker? It's not this (https://launchpad.net/utbb), is it?
[16:51] <RicardoPerez> many times a i18n issue is marked as a "low" priority
[16:52] <ArneGoetje> evanrmurphy: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
[16:52] <RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: I always posted i18n bugreports against the "problematic" apps
[16:52] <danilos> RicardoPerez: that's why there's a team and a project now to better coordinate that and poke other developers :)
[16:52] <RicardoPerez> not against the langpack itself
[16:52] <danilos> RicardoPerez: i18n bugs are bugs in applications, you should just tag them with i18n and file them against applications
[16:52] <RicardoPerez> danilos: that sounds great!
[16:53] <ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: if you file them against each individual pkg, then I most likely won't see them...
[16:53] <RicardoPerez> danilos: that's right, that's the way I use
[16:53] <danilos> ArneGoetje: oh, sorry, I may have misunderstood the idea behind ubuntu-translations project
[16:54] <RicardoPerez> ArneGoetje: that's right... so what should be the process when I want to post a i18n bugrepot?
[16:54] <danilos> RicardoPerez: the problem is with notifications: there is no way to subscribe to a tag in Launchpad bugs, so that's probably why ArneGoetje wants bugs filed against this new project
[16:54] <ArneGoetje> danilos: well, if it's really a bug in the app, then that's ok. But if it is a bug with translations, then please use the Ubuntu Translations bugtracker.
[16:54] <adiroiban> yes. the big problem is with tag notification
[16:54] <RicardoPerez> oh, great... so I should post the bugreport against the app and the new project itself, doesn't it?
[16:55] <danilos> RicardoPerez: you can just add a bugtask against the project as well
[16:55] <adiroiban> RicardoPerez: or just add "ubuntu-translations" in "Also affected" field
[16:55] <ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: yes, that would be better. just add the project. Then we will know there is something going on.
[16:55] <dpm> can't we do both? Assign it to the app, tag it and assign it to ubuntu-translations
[16:55] <dpm> oops, sorrz, alreadz answered
[16:55] <ArneGoetje> dpm: yes
[16:55] <adiroiban> so we have Ubuntu Translation as a central hub for i18n/l10n issues
[16:55] <RicardoPerez> great... all the three at the same time :)
[16:56] <adiroiban> and try to work arround Launchpad limitations
[16:56]  * ArneGoetje grins
[16:56] <RicardoPerez> what's the Ubuntu Translation project name in Launchpad?
[16:56] <RicardoPerez> I can't find it
[16:57] <henninge> untuntu-translatoins
[16:57] <henninge> untuntu-translations
[16:57] <danilos> RicardoPerez: quoted above, "ubuntu-translations"
[16:57] <dpm> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
[16:57] <RicardoPerez> oh, great, I mean "ubuntu-translation"
[16:58] <adiroiban> beside filling bugs
[16:58] <adiroiban> we should also handle bug triage
[16:58] <RicardoPerez> I think we should comment the above bugfilling process in the ubuntu-translators @
[16:58] <RicardoPerez> so anybody knows
[16:59] <adiroiban> I can take some time and write a wikipage about bug reporting and bug triage
[16:59] <ArneGoetje> RicardoPerez: yes, will do
[16:59] <dpm> I agree, we should announce it and promote it more
[16:59] <evanrmurphy> I agree as well.
[16:59] <adiroiban> but beside translators, developers and people from 5aDay should be aware of it
[16:59] <dpm> good point
[16:59] <RicardoPerez> can we do anything about the "low priority by default" problem in the i18n bugreports?
[17:00] <adiroiban> RicardoPerez: i don't think so
[17:00] <adiroiban> just try to persuate developers to incerease the bug...
[17:00] <RicardoPerez> that's a pity, because not always a i18n issue should be considered a low priority one...
[17:00] <danilos> dpm, adiroiban, ArneGoetje: it should also go to a Ubuntu translation instructions as linked from all the translate pages on Launchpad
[17:01] <dpm> danilos: yes, it should be documented
[17:01] <danilos> RicardoPerez: sometimes you can push them upstream and have them fixed there
[17:01] <adiroiban> danilos: where is that? :)
[17:01] <Spike1506> com&
[17:01] <RicardoPerez> danilos: that's right. I needed to do that in the past sometimes
[17:02] <dpm> anyway, we're running late. I propose to leave it here and move the topis left to the next meeting in two weeks time
[17:02] <adiroiban> ok
[17:02] <RicardoPerez> great
[17:02] <dpm> thank you all for the great discussion
[17:02] <adiroiban> just a small comment, I think we should continue the discussion on the ML
[17:02] <adiroiban> and not leave them until next meeting
[17:02] <dpm> adiroiban: of course, feel free to do that as well
[17:02] <adiroiban> right now I don't see to much activity on the translators mailinglist
[17:03] <adiroiban> :)
[17:03] <evanrmurphy> don't forget we have #ubuntu-translators as well
[17:03] <evanrmurphy> discussion can be had there and then copied to the ML
[17:03] <adiroiban> ok
[17:03] <dpm> ok, shall we leave it here then?
[17:03] <RicardoPerez> ubuntu-translators/ubuntu-translations...
[17:03] <RicardoPerez> ok
[17:04] <evanrmurphy> Great talking with all of you today, turns out we have a pretty lively group!
[17:04] <dpm> cool
[17:04]  * henninge bounces around lively ...
=== adiroiban changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ - 16.00 UTC - Ubuntu Mobile Meeting
[17:04] <dpm> thank you all!
[17:04] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:04] <RicardoPerez> thanks to everybody!
[17:04] <henninge> dpm, adiroiban: thanks!
[17:04] <adiroiban> yep. looking forward for reading you :)
[17:04] <evanrmurphy> henninge: lol
[17:04] <evanrmurphy> Thanks all!
[17:05] <evanrmurphy> Can we dedicate a section of the wiki to copies of these meeing logs?
[17:05] <evanrmurphy> s/meeing/meeting/
[17:05] <dpm> sure, I'll take care of that
[17:06] <evanrmurphy> dpm: awesome!
[17:07] <RicardoPerez> see you!

CategoryTranslations

Translations/Meetings/2009-07-02 (last edited 2009-07-20 13:12:15 by p54A13477)