Ubuntu Wiki

Agenda

• Communication within the localization teams (EvanRMurphy)

  • IRC presence and the attempt to revive #ubuntu-l10n-es for UbuntuSpanishTranslators

• Reverting old translations to packaged ones (Danilo)

• Communicating with Ubuntu translation teams (AdiRoiban)

  • Should we name team contacts (similar to loco-contacts) ?
  • Should we ask all teams/team contacts to join ubuntu-translators mailinglist and keep in touch with announcement / activity ?

• Promoting the Ubuntu Translations project

  • How to raise awareness of the purpose and usage of the project (to developers, bug triagers, bug reporters)
  • How to best integrate its usage to the bug triaging process

• [DEFERRED] Disabling Hebrew CLI translations (DavidPlanella)

  • Hebrew translators want to disable their translations (other RTL languages' translators have either said they don't want to or they haven't expressed any complaints)

  • We've got a preliminary list of apps at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHebrewTranslators/CLI

  • What options we've got for disabling them
  • How do we proceed

• [DEFERRED] GNOME help files shipped verbatim in language packs (DavidPlanella)

  • Brief informative report (if we've got no time for this this time, I'll just send an e-mail to the ML)

Attendees

• AdiRoiban (adiroiban)

• ArneGoetje (ArneGoetje)

• Danilo Šegan (danilos)

• DavidPlanella (dpm)

• EvanRMurphy (evanrmurphy)

• Henning Eggers (henninge)

• czajkowski (czajkowski)

Summary

TODO

Communication within the localization teams

Reverting old translations to packaged ones

Communicating with Ubuntu translation teams

Promoting the Ubuntu Translations project

Log

[16:00] <dpm> ok, Ubuntu translations meeting
[16:00] <pedro_> hello everybody
[16:00] <dpm> so who's there?
[16:00] <evanrmurphy> here
[16:01] <danilos> me, though I might be only partially around
=== dpm changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu translations meeting /https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TranslatingUbuntu/Events/Meetings
[16:01] <henninge> me, same as danilos
[16:02] <dpm> anyone else would like to raise his/her hand? Otherwise, we'll get started
[16:02] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:02] <yinoneh> me too, but have to leave... :(
[16:03] <dpm> hi everyone, let's start with some of the topics from the last meeting
[16:04] <dpm> [TOPIC] Communication within the localization teams
[16:04] <dpm> evanrmurphy: I think that was your topic, would you like to start?
[16:04] <evanrmurphy> dpm: Sure thing.
[16:05] <dpm> #startmeeting
[16:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:05. The chair is dpm.
[16:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:05] <dpm> [TOPIC] Communication within the localization teams
[16:05] <evanrmurphy> I was curious to here about how communication is handled with the other localization teams.
[16:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Communication within the localization teams
[16:05] <evanrmurphy> With the Ubuntu Spanish Translators, we've got a tried and true mailing list which is the fount for basically all our communication.
[16:06] <evanrmurphy> It's nice because it's simple and centralized, but I became aware of some weaknesses to our relying on it entirely.
[16:07] <evanrmurphy> The largest point of concern is that new people interested in our team I think are often looking for a lot of feedback.
[16:08] <evanrmurphy> But it's happened that people have written to the ML and been underwhelmed by responses.
[16:09] <evanrmurphy> (People on our team naturally get busy and don't respond to every post they see on the mailing list, plus the nature of a mailing list makes responses less obligatory, IMO.)
[16:09] <evanrmurphy> so I recently started (actually revived) an IRC channel for our team at #ubuntu-l10n-es
[16:10] <evanrmurphy> A few of us have been hanging out there fairly consistently, and I've been pleased because it's allowed me to get to know better some of my teammates, who I was otherwise working side-by-side with but seldom conversing with.
[16:11] <evanrmurphy> We've already had a few new people come to the channel, and I think the live interaction has been beneficial for them, and encouraged them to continue pursuing translations with us even though it can be difficult.
[16:11] <dpm> evanrmurphy: I'm pleased to hear that. We've got the same approach and issues in our Catalan team with the mailing list. We haven't got a dedicated channel for translations, but we've just been talking about using the one from our loco for meetings and so on.
[16:12] <evanrmurphy> So that's all I had to say, really. Just an anecdote about this recent development in our team I wanted to share with you, perhaps have your feedback, and hear how these kinds of things are on your teams. Thanks.
[16:13] <dpm> I do agree that IRC is also good for translations. Sometimes it helps even for experienced translators to have real-time communications for quick reviews. Do other translation teams use e.g. forums?
[16:14] <adiroiban> IRC is ok if you have a very active team
[16:14] <adiroiban> otherwise a forum or a ML is recommended as most probably you will not have all translators online in the same time
[16:15] <adiroiban> and reading  IRC logs is not a pleasant task
[16:15] <evanrmurphy> adiroiban: Yes, I agree. IRC has its weaknesses as well.
[16:15] <adiroiban> we are using #ubuntu-ro as an all jack channel
[16:16] <adiroiban> chat, support, l10n, planning, meetings
[16:16] <adiroiban> but we don't have to many l10n discussions
[16:16] <evanrmurphy> adiroiban: That sounds very sensible for the Romanian team.
[16:17] <evanrmurphy> With Spanish, there are tens and tens of LoCo teams, but only one translations team. So it's a bit unfortunate that with all the translators spread across so many countries, we're unable to unite in one LoCo.
[16:17] <evanrmurphy> But we're lucky to have so many contributors all across the world.
[16:18] <evanrmurphy> I suppose different teams will need different solutions and tools.
[16:19] <dpm> Yes, I think that's a good summary, I'd also propose you to just ask in the ubuntu-translators mailing list, see what other teams not here today do
[16:20] <evanrmurphy> dpm: Sounds good. :)
[16:20] <dpm> ok, anything else, shall we go for the next topic?
[16:21] <dpm> [TOPIC] Reverting old translations to packaged ones
[16:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Reverting old translations to packaged ones
[16:21] <dpm> danilos: that was your topic, if you've got time, go ahead, if not, I can take it
[16:22] <danilos> well, it's simple
[16:22] <danilos> I am considering reverting all changed translations before 2008-01-01, when we didn't have enough tools to track those changes, or when Launchpad didn't behave as well as today
[16:23] <danilos> so, this would be for all languages in Ubuntu, and it'd be interesting to know if people are interested in us doing it
[16:23] <danilos> if not, there's always an option for any particular team to ask for a single language to be reverted
[16:23] <adiroiban> what do you mean by reverting?
[16:23] <danilos> adiroiban: well, reverting to packaged translations, when they are different from ones provided in LP
[16:23] <adiroiban> moving current translations as suggestions?
[16:24] <danilos> basically, use "Packaged" suggestions for all translations changed in LP before 2008-01-01
[16:24] <adiroiban> or just deleting them?
[16:24] <evanrmurphy> Using Packaged instead of Current?
[16:24] <danilos> adiroiban: we wouldn't be deleting them, we would leave them as suggestions
[16:24] <danilos> in general, we very rarely delete anything
[16:25] <danilos> only in the case of obvious mistake (like someone uploading a wrong language PO file to another language)
[16:25] <evanrmurphy> Could you explain a bit more about the rationale, danilos?
[16:25] <adiroiban> Hm... I don't know what to say. I don't feel the need for this in RO translations.
[16:25] <adiroiban> maybe just leave each team to request it.
[16:26] <danilos> evanrmurphy: just a little bit more: in early days of Launchpad, there was no 'changed in LP' filter, nor were 'Packaged' translations shown so prominently
[16:26] <adiroiban> also, I think that soon UTC will be able to revert a package
[16:26] <dpm> danilos: and with how much granularity could this be done, i.e. could people provide a list of templates who'd like to see reverted, or would this just apply to a whole distro?
[16:26] <danilos> which means that there were a lot of inadvertent changes done in many ubuntu translations, why upstreams hated us
[16:27] <danilos> dpm: no, it's either easy do-it-for-all, or back to using changed-in-lp filter if people want more granularity
[16:27] <danilos> we don't have enough time to handle all this for each team specifically
[16:27] <danilos> adiroiban: why do you think that? if that was the case, I think I'd know about it :)
[16:28] <danilos> adiroiban: (i.e. that UTC will be able to revert a package)
[16:28] <adiroiban> :p
[16:28] <evanrmurphy> ah
[16:28] <danilos> so, my impression from this meeting is: there's no particular interest for this simple solution; conclusion is: we won't do it :)
[16:29] <danilos> we still offer each team an option to request that language to be reverted, but otherwise, it's up to using the web UI :)
[16:29] <dpm> danilos: so just to get it clear, this would be for all languages at once, if it were to be done?
[16:29] <danilos> dpm: that's right
[16:29] <evanrmurphy> danilos: I guess it just comes as a bit of a shock.
[16:29] <evanrmurphy> And I'm not sure I understand all the implications.
[16:30] <danilos> evanrmurphy: depends on who you ask, translators active both upstream and in Ubuntu, and where Ubuntu translation teams were open for a long time, were those who made me think it would be desireable
[16:30] <danilos> in general, it seems we don't have those people here, so it's a moot point
[16:30] <danilos> anyway, there doesn't seem to be enough motivation to carry on with this, so I won't
[16:30] <evanrmurphy> Perhaps we can discuss it further on the ML?
[16:30] <danilos> sorry, I got to go back to the other stuff I got to finish today
[16:30] <danilos> evanrmurphy: by all means, but I will be gone for 2 weeks
[16:31] <danilos> evanrmurphy: I am happy for ubuntu translators to discuss it and let me know if they want it done
[16:31] <dpm> Yes, again, let's take it to the ML, thanks for the explanation, danilo. My take is that it'd be interesting only on a team by team basis
[16:32] <dpm> anything else, shall we move on?
[16:32] <ArneGoetje> danilos: I would prefer not to do it for all languages. It should be left open for each team to decide if they want it for their language or not. (I know that for zh_TW we would not want it.)
[16:33] <dpm> yes, maybe request it through the rosetta Answers in LP
[16:33] <danilos> ArneGoetje: we already said many times that's fine, this time I am proposing doing it with a date limitation
[16:34] <dpm> danilos: would it be fine if we ask it on the ML and provide a list of those teams who'd want to do that?
[16:35] <danilos> dpm: sure
[16:35] <dpm> ok, let's take it from there then
[16:35] <dpm> next topic, adiroiban
[16:35] <dpm> [TOPIC] Communicating with Ubuntu translation teams
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Communicating with Ubuntu translation teams
[16:36] <adiroiban> ok.
[16:37] <adiroiban> Now that we have shared translations between jaunty and karmic
[16:37] <adiroiban> I think that we should see more progress for Jaunty translations during the Karmic development cicle
[16:37] <evanrmurphy> \o/
[16:37] <adiroiban> and it this case it would make sense to have oftern language packs updated for Jaunty
[16:38] <adiroiban> but since we don't have a communication with  many teams
[16:38] <adiroiban> maybe it will be hard to have the signoff of the language packs
[16:38] <adiroiban> ... this is just one of the reasons why communication is important
[16:38] <adiroiban> so
[16:39] <adiroiban> our goal should to be see ways in which we can reach
[16:39] <adiroiban> ubuntu localization teams
[16:39] <adiroiban> first questions
[16:39] <adiroiban> do you think we should name ubuntu localizatoin team contacts?
[16:40] <adiroiban> or just communicate with teams
[16:40] <dpm> I like the idea of having a team contact, since sometimes it is difficult to contact a team with say 3 administrators
[16:40] <adiroiban> without the need of naming team coordinators
[16:40] <adiroiban> coordinator
[16:41] <adiroiban> why is dificult to contact a team with 3 admins?
[16:41] <dpm> what do you mean by "without naming team coordinators"? I think the team coordinator would be the first candidate for being the contact point
[16:41] <adiroiban> the answer probability should be greater :)
[16:42] <evanrmurphy> Probability is greater with 3 admins, but responsibility is diffused.
[16:42] <adiroiban> team coordinator(s) = team contact(s)
[16:42] <dpm> adiroiban: it is only difficult (although that was probably the wrong word) in the sense that you do not know which one is the coordinator
[16:43] <dpm> evanrmurphy: you put it very nicely :)
[16:43] <adiroiban> as long as we got an answer, why should we care who is the coordinator?
[16:44] <evanrmurphy> I can consult with my team and see if the team leader, Ricardo Pérez, would be willing to be the l10n team contact.
[16:44] <dpm> As the team's representative I'd expect the coordinator to be more responsive, and it's easier to just contact one person
[16:44] <adiroiban> dpm: ok.
[16:45] <adiroiban> then let's start a wiki page similar to LoCo teams
[16:45] <dpm> but I think the next question is how can this be implemented, do we take the model of loco teams adi is suggesting?
[16:45] <dpm> like having l10n-contacts or something?
[16:45] <adiroiban> at least, this could help up in identifing the teams what receive our information
[16:46] <adiroiban> dpm: I will keep it on launchpad-translators
[16:46] <adiroiban> do don't have a huge trafic anyway
[16:47] <dpm> adiroiban: what do you mean by keeping it in launchpad-translators?
[16:47] <dpm> I mean in practical terms
[16:47] <adiroiban> if we are going to have a  l10n-contacts (team or ML), it is better to name it approved-l10n-teams
[16:47] <adiroiban> launchpad-translators mailinglist
[16:48] <adiroiban> basicaly we need a communication channel with l10n team contacts. Right?
[16:48] <adiroiban> Or I'm missing the point
[16:48] <evanrmurphy> adirioban: Yes.
[16:48] <evanrmurphy> That channel could take many different forms, correct?
[16:49] <dpm> yes, I understant you mean the launchpad-translators mailing list, but in which way does this differ from the current ubuntu-translators mailing list?
[16:49] <evanrmurphy> Are you suggesting the l10n team contacts be available on the launchpad-translators ML?
[16:49] <adiroiban> dpm: darn. my bad
[16:49] <adiroiban> ubuntu-translators
[16:49] <evanrmurphy> How about this:
[16:49] <dpm> Right, now I get you :)
[16:49] <adiroiban> ignore what I said about launchpad-translators and replace it with ubuntu
[16:50] <dpm> yes, yes, I get you
[16:50] <evanrmurphy> l10n team contacts (probably the team admin) should be available on the ubuntu-translators ML
[16:50] <evanrmurphy> but their info will also be catalogued on a l10n contact page so that they can be individually contacted if needed.
[16:51] <dpm> yes, that sounds good to me, the only grey area for me atm is the implementation of the l10n contact page
[16:51] <adiroiban> we can start with a wikipage
[16:52] <adiroiban> and then see if we can use the LoCo directory
[16:52] <adiroiban> LoCo directory infrastructure - webapp + LP teams
[16:52] <dpm> right, now it gets clearer. Yes, the loco directory sounds a good resource to explore also for translation teams
[16:53] <adiroiban> ok
[16:53] <evanrmurphy> Not sure I'm not familiar with the LoCo directory. Link please?
[16:53] <adiroiban> evanrmurphy: LoCo directory is WIP
[16:53] <adiroiban> we can start with a wikipage
[16:54] <adiroiban> similar to the current one
[16:54] <dpm> so do we agree on a) name team contacts and b) adding them initially to a wiki page and then see if we can use a more automated resource (LP team or LoCo directory)?
[16:54] <adiroiban> a) let each team name it's contact
[16:55] <adiroiban> b) ask team contact to add their team/info to a wikipage
[16:55]  * evanrmurphy says "Ay".
[16:56] <dpm> although I agree, I'd strongly recommend the contact to be the coordinator
[16:56] <evanrmurphy> Include strong recommendation in a).
[16:57] <dpm> right, let's take this to actions, would anyone like to volunteer to create the l10n-contacts wiki page?
[16:57] <adiroiban> even without our recommendation, I believe will chose their contacts from withing  their coordinators
[16:58] <adiroiban> dpm: I can do that
[16:58] <dpm> adiroiban: thanks
[16:58] <adiroiban> we can talk on the ML about the fields and what info do we require from each team
[16:59] <adiroiban> ex. like if they have bad writing support
[16:59] <adiroiban> and in this case Arne could contact them and look into that matter
[17:00] <adiroiban> ok.
[17:00] <adiroiban> I think we are close to the end of this meeting
[17:00] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: "bad writing support"?
[17:00] <adiroiban> or we can continue?
[17:00] <adiroiban> no fonts
[17:00] <evanrmurphy> I am available to continue.
[17:00] <evanrmurphy> We still have several topics, if other people can stay.
[17:00] <adiroiban> or keyboard layouts
[17:01] <dpm> is there something else after our meeting?
[17:01] <evanrmurphy> no
[17:01] <ArneGoetje> adiroiban: we do ship fonts and keyboard layouts for every language we have in Launchpad, AFAIK
[17:01] <evanrmurphy> dpm: I don't think there's another meeting.
[17:01] <dpm> I can stay as well, if you like, or other wise we can move it to ubuntu-translators
[17:01] <evanrmurphy> Hope not. :)
[17:01] <adiroiban> dpm: nope. Only at 18 UTC
[17:01] <dpm> right, let's go on then
[17:02] <dpm> I do have to go in 30 mins, though
[17:02] <adiroiban> ok.
[17:02] <dpm> shall we move on to the next one?
[17:03] <evanrmurphy> Wait.
[17:03] <adiroiban> from my point of view. Ubuntu Translations project is doing well... there are a lot of bugs :)
[17:03] <evanrmurphy> So adiroiban volunteered to start the wiki.
[17:03] <dpm> adiroiban: wait a sec, evanrmurphy wants to add something
[17:04] <evanrmurphy> Does someone need to start something on the ML as well?
[17:04] <dpm> evanrmurphy: would you like to start a thread for that?
[17:04] <adiroiban> we can continue the brainstorm on the ML
[17:04] <adiroiban> and see if we get any good ideas :)
[17:04] <evanrmurphy> Sure. I'll do that.
[17:05] <dpm> ok, next one
[17:05] <dpm> [TOPIC] Promoting the Ubuntu Translations project
[17:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Promoting the Ubuntu Translations project
[17:05] <dpm> This is about how to best let bug reporters and triagers know about the ubuntu-translations project
[17:06] <dpm> I've asked pedro_ to be here to give us some advice on that
[17:06] <dpm> As those on the last meeting know
[17:07] <dpm> the ubuntu-translations project in Launchpad was started to be the central place for bugs (although we've been discussing other things, like support requests as well) in Ubuntu translations
[17:08] <dpm> bug reporters and triagers can either add the ubuntu-translations project to a bug ("also affects project" field) or report the bug against it
[17:08] <dpm> in the latter case, the Ubuntu Translations Coordinators team will figure out which package it affects
[17:09] <dpm> it is a very recent project, and we'd like to promote it in the best way and integrate it in the bug triaging/reporting process (hug days, etc)
[17:10] <dpm> soren, any ideas on how to do that?
[17:10] <dpm> (I don't know why 'so' always gets replaced by 'soren' ;) )
[17:11] <pedro_> in the case of requesting feedback from the ubuntu-translations team
[17:11] <pedro_> do you still want us to open a new tasks for that?
[17:11] <pedro_> or do you guys have a team we could just subscribe to the bugs
[17:12] <pedro_> IMHO that'd work better
[17:12] <dpm> we've got the ubuntu-translations-coordinators team, which is the driver for the project, and we're subscribed to bugs
[17:12] <dpm> they end up in our mailing list
[17:13] <pedro_> alright we need to update some of the docs of the triage process then to reflect that
[17:13] <adiroiban> pedro_: we can also create a ubuntu-translations team
[17:14] <dpm> pedro_:  you say that subscribing the UTCs team would work better than opening a new task for the ubuntu-translations project?
[17:14] <adiroiban> but we went for creating a project to also cover the case where people are not sure if the bug is in launchpad or ubuntu
[17:14] <pedro_> dpm: well i don't know for which kind of reports are you going to use the project
[17:14] <pedro_> most of translations issues are related to packages (empathy, gwibber, etc)
[17:15] <pedro_> and other things can maybe be discussed at mailing lists , etc
[17:15] <adiroiban> yes, but there are also bugs regarding language packs
[17:15] <dpm> anything related to translations _in Ubuntu_, it's to have a central place to have them and to be able to suscribe to
[17:15] <adiroiban> or ubuntu translations process
[17:15] <pedro_> adiroiban: which could be assigned to the right language-pack ? ;-)
[17:15] <adiroiban> pedro_: right... but it is hard for us to subribe to each language pack
[17:16] <ArneGoetje> dpm: we could add an apport-hook, so that 'ubuntu-bug translations' will collect useful system information (locale, release, etc.) and submit the bug report to the Ubuntu Translations project.
[17:16] <dpm> before that, we had a wiki page. It's not as much as language packs but also i18n bugs (for language packs, if it's a wrong translation, I just contact the team coordinator to correct it)
[17:16] <ArneGoetje> pedro_: there are more than 770 language packs...
[17:17] <dpm> ArneGoetje: apport, that's a good point as well
=== Richie is now known as YDdraigGoch
[17:19] <dpm> pedro_: one important point is to get a general overview of the translation bugs (l10n and i18n) and be able to subscribe to them
[17:20] <pedro_> dpm: got it
[17:21] <dpm> pedro_: but as I say, this is a very recent project. It seems to work well, but we've just started, so we are open to any suggestions
[17:21] <pedro_> well let see how that works, i'm just worried about people opening thousand of tasks for bugs
[17:23] <dpm> so you'd suggest for us to test it for a bit before making a big announcement, or just announce it and see how it works out as we go along?
[17:26] <pedro_> let's announce it and see how it works, if it doesn't too nice, later we can try some other option :-)
[17:28] <dpm> soren, quickly to wrap up some actions: I can talk to pedro_ to see how we can include this in the documentation, and we should probably announce it on the ML again and blog about it. Agreed? Any other ideas?
[17:28] <adiroiban> talk about next meeting
[17:28] <adiroiban> we will have kubuntu translations in 29 ?
[17:29] <adiroiban> and the next ubuntu translations in 30 ?
[17:29] <adiroiban> July
[17:29] <dpm> adiroiban: so, step by step, do you first want to defer this topic to the next meeting?
[17:29] <dpm> not defer, I mean put it on the agenda again
[17:30] <adiroiban> yes
[17:30] <adiroiban> I think we can evaluate it again
[17:30] <dpm> sounds good to me, anyone else?
[17:31] <dpm> now for the Kubuntu translations questions: I've only got 2 mins, I've got an appointment
[17:31] <dpm> adiroiban: can you elaborate the Kubuntu question?
[17:31] <adiroiban> I only want to know if we are going to have the kubuntu translations day, or no
[17:32] <dpm> right, yes, I have to announce it properly, but basically I confirmed it on kubuntu-devel and I added it to the fridge calendar
[17:32] <adiroiban> and where is the agenda
[17:33] <evanrmurphy> Good.
[17:33] <adiroiban> or what are the expectations for the Kubuntu translations day
[17:33] <adiroiban> but we can talk later
[17:33] <adiroiban> :)
[17:33] <adiroiban> no hurry
[17:33] <dpm> adiroiban: It's not as much as a meeting but rather a day where to care for Kubuntu translations. I will be announcing it in more detail next week
[17:33] <adiroiban> ok
[17:33] <dpm> and activities which can be done
[17:34] <dpm> ok, then I'd like to thank you all very much for your participation and always good ideas and discussion, and I think we can wrap it up
[17:35] <evanrmurphy> Thanks, dpm.
[17:35] <evanrmurphy> Thanks all.
[17:35] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[17:35] <dpm> I'll be sending the minutes tomorrow
[17:35] <dpm> Thank you all! \o/
[17:35] <adiroiban> great :)
[17:35] <dpm> #endmeeting
[17:35] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:35.

CategoryTranslations