- Bugs status before BETA , Can we handle all Ubuntu Translations bugs
[DEFERED] Status of Ubuntu docs / GNOME docs / D-I Help / Server guide / Installation Guide / Desktop Course (AdiRoiban - Ubuntu Doc Team)
- Continued from previous meeting:
- How to raise awareness of the purpose and usage of the project (to developers, bug triagers, bug reporters)
- How to best integrate its usage to the bug triaging process
[DEFERED] Disabling Hebrew CLI translations (DavidPlanella)
- Hebrew translators want to disable their translations (other RTL languages' translators have either said they don't want to or they haven't expressed any complaints)
We've got a preliminary list of apps at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHebrewTranslators/CLI
- What options we've got for disabling them
- How do we proceed
The category list, ordering and templates groups will be tracked via Templates Priority wikipage
AdiRoiban will write a script for batch updating templates priority
We still don't know if we should mix Ubuntu and Kubuntu templates. AdiRoiban will write an email to ubuntu-translators ML asking for more feedback.
- Ubuntu Translation project is on the right track but we need to work harder in the bugs area (triage/fixing)
AdiRoiban will write an email to both ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-translators mailing list for deciding a date for a common meeting that will try to discuss the current stat or ubuntu-docs translations.
dpm: #startmeeting MootBot: Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is dpm. MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] dpm: who's there? o/ kelemengabor: hi all czajkowski: aloha happyaron: hi dpm: hiya adiroiban, kelemengabor, cjwatson, happyaron! dpm: czajkowski, I meant, not Colin dpm: so, shall we get started with the first topic? adiroiban: sure dpm: Adi, it is yours - 18:02 - dpm: [TOPIC] Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list MootBot: New Topic: Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list adiroiban: well. adiroiban: I think you all know the wikipage adiroiban: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority adiroiban: any comments regarding the categories ? - thekorn_ a intrat în cameră adiroiban: shall we have new ones, or remove some of them adiroiban: ? - thekorn_ a ieșit din cameră - thekorn a intrat în cameră dpm: adiroiban, are you talking about the categories for prioritisation? adiroiban: yes dpm: I think we could add UNR, for example adiroiban: ok. where ? adiroiban: 3 ? adiroiban: I was thinking to consider UNR at cat 2 - Ubuntu specific stuff dpm: adiroiban, I'd just put it anywhere in the list for now. I think we should talk whether we want to 'mix' templates of different distros (ubuntu, kubuntu, unr) or give Ubuntu priority dpm: What do you guys think? - 18:08 - adiroiban: for UNR . Since we don't have to many packages I think we can put them at cat 2 - Ubunte specific kelemengabor: I think it would be better to handle Ubuntu/Kubuntu separately adiroiban: I'm an Ubuntu user so I would say to have Ubuntu+UNR in the first place... and the Kubuntu / Xubuntu / Edubuntu adiroiban: then dpm: I'm also up for having u - v_20q_ a intrat în cameră dpm: Ubuntu first, due to a bigger user base dpm: so at least the ones we're here seem to agree on that * Riddell disagrees adiroiban: Any opinion from Kubuntu users? adiroiban: dpm: adiroiban: why? Riddell: it would probably be best to have a list of prority templates for each variant, Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu etc adiroiban: I would not add Ubuntu Server in the equation Riddell: adiroiban: why? "I'm an Ubuntu user" isn't a good rationale for this adiroiban: since most of the apps are CLI - lau1 a intrat în cameră dpm: Riddell, yes, but one of those variants should go on top dpm: we've got only one list - 18:13 - adiroiban: Riddell: I agree, I will also go with Ubuntu due to a bigger user base - nxvl_ a intrat în cameră Riddell: dpm: well whatever, it would be nice to have a way for people to see "have I done the most important templates in Xubuntu" Riddell: adiroiban: "Ubuntu" is confusing terminology here, "Ubuntu Desktop" is more clear for the desktop edition - v_20q s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) dpm: Riddell, yes, we can prioritise per variant, that's not a problem. The question is whether we put all variant's templates one after another or whether we mix them dpm: i.e. a) first all Ubuntu Desktop templates (prioritised), then Kubuntu templates (prioritised), or b) Higher priority Ubuntu templates, higher prio Kubuntu, less prio Ubuntu... etc Riddell: may as well bring some order to it - 18:18 - Riddell: although I'd fear people having the attitude of "I use Ubuntu so I'll ignore this batch of Kubuntu ones" adiroiban: dpm: What I can do for a start is to provide a list of all templates per variant (desktop, unr, kubuntu) dpm: i.e. those in the default installs, like the one I sent to the list yesterday or the day before adiroiban: those list are very noisy adiroiban: lists dpm: noisy? adiroiban: a lot of CLI apps dpm: it's a subset of a bigger list we've got in Launchpad dpm: we can remove the CLI apps from the list - nxvl_ s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) adiroiban: for Ubuntu we can go with GNOME templates + Ubuntu Specific + some other one manualy selected - nxvl_ a intrat în cameră adiroiban: and maybe we can do the same for Kubuntu dpm: yes, I agree, but you still need somewhere you can get an overview of the templates adiroiban: we can get the GNOME templates from here: http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ro/gnome-2-28/ui/ adiroiban: we can use the wiki for updating such a list dpm: hmm, yes, but I've got two concerns with that a) you have to look at them and update them manually dpm: b) it might list modules which are not installed by default - 18:23 - dpm: it doesn't contain dpm: things like f-spot dpm: or tomboy dpm: since they're not official gnome modules adiroiban: yes. they will be manualy added in the list ArneGoetje: FYI: I've talked with Jeroen during the last UDS in Barcelona about this template grouping. The Rosetta team didn't have time yet to implement it and I will poke about it next week during the LP Translations sprint. - dholbach s-a deconectat ("Ex-Chat") adiroiban: just like the other Ubuntu/Kubuntu specific packates happyaron: dpm, http://l10n.gnome.org/modules , but may need some work then - mc44 a intrat în cameră adiroiban: the list of all modules is also noisy as there are many obsolete modules * happyaron I have to say, yup dpm: adiroiban, which ones are obsolete? If they are, we should disable them in LP dpm: oh I see - v_20q_ s-a deconectat (Remote closed the connection) adiroiban: I was talking about the gnome modules dpm: you meant the GNOME one adiroiban: yep dpm: yup - nxvl s-a deconectat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) dpm: well, it seems these are the two main points dpm: 1) Do we mix templates or do we list them peioritised one variant after another? dpm: prioritised dpm: 2) Categories - 18:28 - dpm: of prioritisation dpm: and perhaps 3) dpm: How do we set priorities? Variants list? Manual wiki? - brianchidester_ s-a deconectat ("dead") adiroiban: for setting priorities: we can start with a bath update (with some help from Rosetta devs) and then have a wiki, subscribe to changes and do manual updates - brianchidester a intrat în cameră adiroiban: also if Rosetta dev are to busy I can dedicate my time to set the priorities for all templates - brianchidester_ a intrat în cameră dpm: adiroiban, I think it might be best to do a batch set, it's 1600 templates! dpm: the plan seems good to me though adiroiban: well I hope we will only have a maximum of 500 templates to set adiroiban: and the other one will not be changed adiroiban: also I can create a curl based script for making those changes using the web interface - brianchidester s-a deconectat (Operation timed out) dpm: if you can do that, sounds good to me adiroiban: it's not hard to do some post request from the command line adiroiban: as my accont has the required template update permissions - 18:33 - dpm: ok adiroiban: going back to our major problem - nxvl a intrat în cameră dpm: so 3) seems sorted. Shall we do a call for feedback on points 1) and 2) on the ML? adiroiban: since we don't have to many templates in UNR i think we can mix them with Ubuntu Desktop dpm: ok, yes adiroiban: since Xubuntu in not in main , those templates are not in Rosetta dpm: that's right, we're only looking at the (desktop, kubuntu, unr) variants adiroiban: and we have to decide if we should also mix Ubuntu (mostly GNOME) and Kubuntu (moslty KDE) templates dpm: or desktop + kubuntu, if we mix unr with desktop dpm: I'd go for not mixing them, and if we do, only mix those which are specific to the distro ArneGoetje: dpm, adiroiban: my idea in my talks with jtv was to use debtags for classification and add a combobox in Rosetta to choose which template group to display. Then the templates for that group are filtered and displayed by priority. - nxvl s-a deconectat (Connection reset by peer) adiroiban: my first idea was to mix them, but to have some manualy define exception so that for example nautilus or dolphin could be listed in the top of the list adiroiban: like here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority#Templates%20with%20a%20high%20user%20visiblity - lieb a intrat în cameră - 18:39 - adiroiban: the only problem with manual defined priority list is that we should find someone willing to dedicate the required time to creat the list. adiroiban: I can help with the Ubuntu top priority packages - nxvl a intrat în cameră adiroiban: Riddell: do you think we can find someone from Kubuntu willing to help with this issue? Riddell: I can do a crude version easily enough (and I don't think there's any reliable way to do anything better) adiroiban: ok dpm: Riddell, that would be a good start, though adiroiban: so we should have the top 50 temples for Ubuntu and top 50 for Kubuntu adiroiban: or 100 adiroiban: the idea is to have the most important templates / the visible to 95% of users adiroiban: Riddell: feel free to add them in the wiki and send them via email adiroiban: since we don't have to many participant at this meeting adiroiban: we can try to get some feedback via ubuntu-translators ML adiroiban: in order to see if we should mix them or not dpm: yes, I agree - 18:44 - happyaron: pro - nxvl_ s-a deconectat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) dpm: does anyone want to send an e-mail to the ML to ask feedback on that? Otherwise I can do it adiroiban: I can do it adiroiban: any other comments regarding those categories ? dpm: [ACTION] adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not MootBot: ACTION received: adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not adiroiban: should we add or remove some of them ? is the order ok ? - nxvl s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) dpm: IMO they look good (good work Adi), although I would perhaps not put the bootloader at the top adiroiban: those are the first text from a live cd - nxvl a intrat în cameră dpm: the question is whether most of the users install K/Ubuntu or simply use it dpm: i.e. someone else installed it adiroiban: yep. but I think we should have them translated as a top priority - 18:49 - adiroiban: since a full review of the system will also include the install process adiroiban: also I think that we have many users that just try the livecd adiroiban: without installing it adiroiban: and the bootloader contains the language switcher and the „Try Ubuntu without any changes on the computer” dpm: ok, that's a good point. * happyaron agree with Adi dpm: but still, there's d-i and ubiquity which people using Ubuntu in a e.g. library or school will never see dpm: anyway, I don't have a problem with them being on top dpm: I'm just mentioning it dpm: they are just a few packages, so it can be refined afterwards if we want to anyway adiroiban: dpm: you are also right... most of the non-technical users will not use d-i kelemengabor: dpm: if your admin is unable to install Ubuntu because the installer is not translated, you won't even see the other parts adiroiban: dpm: hehehe kelemengabor: so I think it's important too happyaron: dpm: so, it's 3 against one, you get it on top, then adiroiban: - 18:54 - dpm: so, now we come to the point where we have to decide whether we want to continue the meeting for longer than the planned hour adiroiban: we should postpone the ubuntu docs part adiroiban: and make a common ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-translators meeting adiroiban: i have just added it in the agenda as a reminder dpm: ok, sounds good to me dpm: thanks Adi adiroiban: I know kelemengabor is keen to see help.ubuntu.com translated kelemengabor: sure! dpm: - imlad a ieșit din cameră - imlad|away a intrat în cameră kelemengabor: sugo.ubuntu.hu is working nicely, help.u.c should have that love too adiroiban: is there any meeting at 16 UTC? adiroiban: kelemengabor as far as I know we will not have multilanguage support in h.u.c dpm: no, it seems there isn't dpm: a meeting adiroiban: rather we will help loco teams to set up their own help pages adiroiban: and help wiki adiroiban: and suport forums - 19:00 - - RainCT a intrat în cameră kelemengabor: well, that's another good option adiroiban: next topic/feedback: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations dpm: [TOPIC] Ubuntu Translations project feedback MootBot: New Topic: Ubuntu Translations project feedback adiroiban: do you think we are doing the right thing by grouping all bugs under ubuntu-translations project, or is just a waste of time ? - zul s-a deconectat (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) dpm: adiroiban, I think it's useful to a) get an overview of translations bugs and b) be able to subscribe to bug mail, BUT... dpm: we should do a better job at triaging the bugs dpm: some of them are only added to the u-t project and are not followed up dpm: so perhaps dpm: we should organise translation hug days for triaging dpm: or adopting translation bugs ArneGoetje: dpm: maybe we should clarify what we use the available bug states for - RainCT s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) ArneGoetje: dpm: like currently we only use New, Invalid and Fix Released. dpm: ArneGoetje, yes, you are right, we should document the process a bit, even for ourselves kelemengabor: bug days are a good idea - 19:05 - dpm: the Kubuntu translations day a while back was very useful in fixing or identifying i18n bugs dpm: so perhaps we could do the same for Ubuntu kelemengabor: I'd participate dpm: cool dpm: going back to what ArneGoetje was saying, also maybe people should be encouraged to assign bugs in the ubuntu-translations project to themselves dpm: even if they can't fix them, they could take care of tracking them dpm: and pestering the relevant devs adiroiban: that should be the actual solution ArneGoetje: +1. Then we also know about who is working on which bugs adiroiban: but I don't know if we could find the required force to drive those changes/action/work dpm: well, we have to start somewhere And I think it is already a big improvement to the wiki page we had before, so again, good job on starting the project! - 19:10 - dpm: we should start a page documenting the ubuntu-translations project dpm: Maybe with a section under "Policies" in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ page dpm: on how to report translation bugs dpm: and the workflow - RainCT a intrat în cameră happyaron: dpm, +1 from me adiroiban: ok. so basicaly we are on the right track... but we need to work harde adiroiban: harder dpm: - greg-g a ieșit din cameră adiroiban: ok adiroiban: I think it's enough for today adiroiban: I will try to arrange a common ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translators meeting adiroiban: and see how if the collaboration between those teams is ok dpm: we could perhaps have a short round of Q+A, if you like, or leave it here. What do you guys say? adiroiban: or where we can improve - 19:17 - - hyperair s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) - AegisRising a ieșit din cameră adiroiban: it looks like we don't need the q+a part dpm: ok, sounds good to me dpm: so guys, thanks a lot for your participation adiroiban: thanks dpm: see you around! * dpm claps dpm: #endmeeting MootBot: Meeting finished at 11:19.