1. Agenda
  2. Summary
  3. Log


  • Decide templates priority and order in the Ubuntu Templates list - More details can be found on this wikipage (AdiRoiban)

  • Bugs status before BETA , Can we handle all Ubuntu Translations bugs
  • [DEFERED] Status of Ubuntu docs / GNOME docs / D-I Help / Server guide / Installation Guide / Desktop Course (AdiRoiban - Ubuntu Doc Team)

  • [DEFERED] Promoting and using the Ubuntu Translations project (DavidPlanella)

    • Continued from previous meeting:
    • How to raise awareness of the purpose and usage of the project (to developers, bug triagers, bug reporters)
    • How to best integrate its usage to the bug triaging process
  • [DEFERED] Disabling Hebrew CLI translations (DavidPlanella)

    • Hebrew translators want to disable their translations (other RTL languages' translators have either said they don't want to or they haven't expressed any complaints)
    • We've got a preliminary list of apps at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHebrewTranslators/CLI

    • What options we've got for disabling them
    • How do we proceed


  • The category list, ordering and templates groups will be tracked via Templates Priority wikipage

  • AdiRoiban will write a script for batch updating templates priority

  • We still don't know if we should mix Ubuntu and Kubuntu templates. AdiRoiban will write an email to ubuntu-translators ML asking for more feedback.

  • Ubuntu Translation project is on the right track but we need to work harder in the bugs area (triage/fixing)
  • AdiRoiban will write an email to both ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-translators mailing list for deciding a date for a common meeting that will try to discuss the current stat or ubuntu-docs translations.


dpm: #startmeeting
MootBot: Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is dpm.
MootBot: Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
dpm: who's there? o/
kelemengabor: hi all
czajkowski: aloha
happyaron: hi
dpm: hiya adiroiban, kelemengabor, cjwatson, happyaron!
dpm: czajkowski, I meant, not Colin 
dpm: so, shall we get started with the first topic?
adiroiban: sure
dpm: Adi, it is yours

- 18:02 -
dpm: [TOPIC] Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list
MootBot: New Topic:  Decide templates prioirty and order in the Ubuntu Templates list
adiroiban: well.
adiroiban: I think you all know the wikipage
adiroiban: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority
adiroiban: any comments regarding the categories ?
 - thekorn_ a intrat în cameră
adiroiban: shall we have new ones, or remove some of them
adiroiban: ?
 - thekorn_ a ieșit din cameră
 - thekorn a intrat în cameră
dpm: adiroiban, are you talking about the categories for prioritisation?
adiroiban: yes
dpm: I think we could add UNR, for example
adiroiban: ok. where ?
adiroiban: 3 ?
adiroiban: I was thinking to consider UNR at cat 2 - Ubuntu specific stuff
dpm: adiroiban, I'd just put it anywhere in the list for now. I think we should talk whether we want to 'mix' templates of different distros (ubuntu, kubuntu, unr) or give Ubuntu priority
dpm: What do you guys think?

- 18:08 -
adiroiban: for UNR . Since we don't have to many packages I think we can put them at cat 2 - Ubunte specific
kelemengabor: I think it would be better to handle Ubuntu/Kubuntu separately
adiroiban: I'm an Ubuntu user so I would say to have Ubuntu+UNR in the first place... and the Kubuntu / Xubuntu / Edubuntu 
adiroiban: then
dpm: I'm also up for having u
 - v_20q_ a intrat în cameră
dpm: Ubuntu first, due to a bigger user base
dpm: so at least the ones we're here seem to agree on that
 * Riddell disagrees
adiroiban: Any opinion from Kubuntu users?
adiroiban: why?
Riddell: it would probably be best to have a list of prority templates for each variant, Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Kubuntu etc
adiroiban: I would not add Ubuntu Server in the equation
Riddell: adiroiban: why?  "I'm an Ubuntu user" isn't a good rationale for this
adiroiban: since most of the apps are CLI
 - lau1 a intrat în cameră
dpm: Riddell, yes, but one of those variants should go on top
dpm: we've got only one list

- 18:13 -
adiroiban: Riddell:  I agree, I will also go with Ubuntu due to a bigger user base
 - nxvl_ a intrat în cameră
Riddell: dpm: well whatever, it would be nice to have a way for people to see "have I done the most important templates in Xubuntu"
Riddell: adiroiban: "Ubuntu" is confusing terminology here, "Ubuntu Desktop" is more clear for the desktop edition
 - v_20q s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
dpm: Riddell, yes, we can prioritise per variant, that's not a problem. The question is whether we put all variant's templates one after another or whether we mix them
dpm: i.e. a) first all Ubuntu Desktop templates (prioritised), then Kubuntu templates (prioritised), or b) Higher priority Ubuntu templates, higher prio Kubuntu, less prio Ubuntu... etc
Riddell: may as well bring some order to it

- 18:18 -
Riddell: although I'd fear people having the attitude of "I use Ubuntu so I'll ignore this batch of Kubuntu ones"
dpm: What I can do for a start is to provide a list of all templates per variant (desktop, unr, kubuntu)
dpm: i.e. those in the default installs, like the one I sent to the list yesterday or the day before
adiroiban: those list are very noisy
adiroiban: lists
dpm: noisy?
adiroiban: a lot of CLI apps
dpm: it's a subset of a bigger list we've got in Launchpad
dpm: we can remove the CLI apps from the list
 - nxvl_ s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
adiroiban: for Ubuntu we can go with GNOME templates + Ubuntu Specific + some other one manualy selected
 - nxvl_ a intrat în cameră
adiroiban: and maybe we can do the same for Kubuntu
dpm: yes, I agree, but you still need somewhere you can get an overview of the templates
adiroiban: we can get the GNOME templates from here: http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ro/gnome-2-28/ui/
adiroiban: we can use the wiki for updating such a list
dpm: hmm, yes, but I've got two concerns with that a) you have to look at them and update them manually
dpm: b) it might list modules which are not installed by default

- 18:23 -
dpm: it doesn't contain
dpm: things like f-spot
dpm: or tomboy
dpm: since they're not official gnome modules
adiroiban: yes. they will be manualy added in the list
ArneGoetje: FYI: I've talked with Jeroen during the last UDS in Barcelona about this template grouping. The Rosetta team didn't have time yet to implement it and I will poke about it next week during the LP Translations sprint.
 - dholbach s-a deconectat ("Ex-Chat")
adiroiban: just like the other Ubuntu/Kubuntu specific packates
happyaron: dpm, http://l10n.gnome.org/modules , but may need some work then
 - mc44 a intrat în cameră
adiroiban: the list of all modules is also noisy as there are many obsolete modules
 * happyaron I have to say, yup
dpm: adiroiban, which ones are obsolete? If they are, we should disable them in LP
dpm: oh I see
 - v_20q_ s-a deconectat (Remote closed the connection)
adiroiban: I was talking about the gnome modules
dpm: you meant the GNOME one
adiroiban: yep
dpm: yup 
 - nxvl s-a deconectat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
dpm: well, it seems these are the two main points
dpm: 1) Do we mix templates or do we list them peioritised one variant after another?
dpm: prioritised
dpm: 2) Categories

- 18:28 -
dpm: of prioritisation
dpm: and perhaps 3)
dpm: How do we set priorities? Variants list? Manual wiki?
 - brianchidester_ s-a deconectat ("dead")
adiroiban: for setting priorities: we can start with a bath update (with some help from Rosetta devs) and then have a wiki, subscribe to changes and do manual updates 
 - brianchidester a intrat în cameră
adiroiban: also if Rosetta dev are to busy I can dedicate my time to set the priorities for all templates
 - brianchidester_ a intrat în cameră
dpm: adiroiban, I think it might be best to do a batch set, it's 1600 templates! 
dpm: the plan seems good to me though
adiroiban: well I hope we will only have a maximum of 500 templates to set
adiroiban: and the other one will not be changed
adiroiban: also I can create a curl based script for making those changes using the web interface
 - brianchidester s-a deconectat (Operation timed out)
dpm: if you can do that, sounds good to me
adiroiban: it's not hard to do some post request from the command line
adiroiban: as my accont has the required template update permissions

- 18:33 -
dpm: ok
adiroiban: going back to our major problem
 - nxvl a intrat în cameră
dpm: so 3) seems sorted. Shall we do a call for feedback on points 1) and 2) on the ML?
adiroiban: since we don't have to many templates in UNR i think we can mix them with Ubuntu Desktop
dpm: ok, yes
adiroiban: since Xubuntu in not in main , those templates are not in Rosetta
dpm: that's right, we're only looking at the (desktop, kubuntu, unr) variants
adiroiban: and we have to decide if we should also mix Ubuntu (mostly GNOME) and Kubuntu (moslty KDE) templates
dpm: or desktop + kubuntu, if we mix unr with desktop
dpm: I'd go for not mixing them, and if we do, only mix those which are specific to the distro
ArneGoetje: dpm, adiroiban: my idea in my talks with jtv was to use debtags for classification and add a combobox in Rosetta to choose which template group to display. Then the templates for that group are filtered and displayed by priority.
 - nxvl s-a deconectat (Connection reset by peer)
adiroiban: my first idea was to mix them, but to have some manualy define exception so that for example nautilus or dolphin could be listed in the top of the list
adiroiban: like here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/TemplatesPriority#Templates%20with%20a%20high%20user%20visiblity
 - lieb a intrat în cameră

- 18:39 -
adiroiban: the only problem with manual defined priority list is that we should find someone willing to dedicate the required time to creat the list. 
adiroiban: I can help with the Ubuntu top priority packages
 - nxvl a intrat în cameră
adiroiban: Riddell: do you think we can find someone from Kubuntu willing to help with this issue?
Riddell: I can do a crude version easily  enough (and I don't think there's any reliable  way  to do anything better)
adiroiban: ok
dpm: Riddell, that would be a good start, though
adiroiban: so we should have the top 50 temples for Ubuntu and top 50 for Kubuntu
adiroiban: or 100
adiroiban: the idea is to have the most important templates / the visible to 95% of users
adiroiban: Riddell: feel free to add them in the wiki and send them via email
adiroiban: since we don't have to many participant at this meeting 
adiroiban: we can try to get some feedback via ubuntu-translators ML
adiroiban: in order to see if we should mix them or not
dpm: yes, I agree

- 18:44 -
happyaron: pro
 - nxvl_ s-a deconectat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
dpm: does anyone want to send an e-mail to the ML to ask feedback on that? Otherwise I can do it
adiroiban: I can do it 
adiroiban: any other comments regarding those categories ?
dpm: [ACTION] adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not
MootBot: ACTION received:  adiroiban to send e-mail to the ubuntu-translators ML to ask for feedback on whether to mix desktop/kubuntu templates or not
adiroiban: should we add or remove some of them ? is the order ok ?
 - nxvl s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
dpm: IMO they look good (good work Adi), although I would perhaps not put the bootloader at the top
adiroiban: those are the first text from a live cd
 - nxvl a intrat în cameră
dpm: the question is whether most of the users install K/Ubuntu or simply use it
dpm: i.e. someone else installed it
adiroiban: yep. but I think we should have them translated as a top priority

- 18:49 -
adiroiban: since a full review of the system will also include the install process
adiroiban: also I think that we have many users that just try the livecd
adiroiban: without installing it
adiroiban: and the bootloader contains the language switcher and the „Try Ubuntu without any changes on the computer”
dpm: ok, that's a good point.
 * happyaron agree with Adi
dpm: but still, there's d-i and ubiquity which people using Ubuntu in a e.g. library or school will never see
dpm: anyway, I don't have a problem with them being on top
dpm: I'm just mentioning it
dpm: they are just a few packages, so it can be refined afterwards if we want to anyway
adiroiban: dpm: you are also right... most of the non-technical users will not use d-i
kelemengabor: dpm: if your admin is unable to install Ubuntu because the installer is not translated, you won't even see the other parts 
dpm: hehehe
kelemengabor: so I think it's important too
dpm: so, it's 3 against one, you get it on top, then 

- 18:54 -
dpm: so, now we come to the point where we have to decide whether we want to continue the meeting for longer than the planned hour 
adiroiban: we should postpone  the ubuntu docs part
adiroiban: and make a common ubuntu-docs and ubuntu-translators meeting
adiroiban: i have just added it in the agenda as a reminder
dpm: ok, sounds good to me
dpm: thanks Adi
adiroiban: I know kelemengabor is keen to see help.ubuntu.com translated 
kelemengabor: sure!
 - imlad a ieșit din cameră
 - imlad|away a intrat în cameră
kelemengabor: sugo.ubuntu.hu is working nicely, help.u.c should have that love too
adiroiban: is there any meeting at 16 UTC?
adiroiban: kelemengabor as far as I know we will not have multilanguage support in h.u.c
dpm: no, it seems there isn't
dpm: a meeting
adiroiban: rather we will help loco teams to set up their own help pages
adiroiban: and help wiki
adiroiban: and suport forums

- 19:00 -
 - RainCT a intrat în cameră
kelemengabor: well, that's another good option
adiroiban: next topic/feedback: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations
dpm: [TOPIC] Ubuntu Translations project feedback
MootBot: New Topic:  Ubuntu Translations project feedback
adiroiban: do you think we are doing the right thing by grouping all bugs under ubuntu-translations project, or is just a waste of time ?
 - zul s-a deconectat (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
dpm: adiroiban, I think it's useful to a) get an overview of translations bugs and b) be able to subscribe to bug mail, BUT...
dpm: we should do a better job at triaging the bugs
dpm: some of them are only added to the u-t project and are not followed up
dpm: so perhaps
dpm: we should organise translation hug days for triaging
dpm: or adopting translation bugs 
ArneGoetje: dpm: maybe we should clarify what we use the available bug states for
 - RainCT s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
ArneGoetje: dpm: like currently we only use New, Invalid and Fix Released. 
dpm: ArneGoetje, yes, you are right, we should document the process a bit, even for ourselves 
kelemengabor: bug days are a good idea

- 19:05 -
dpm: the Kubuntu translations day a while back was very useful in fixing or identifying i18n bugs
dpm: so perhaps we could do the same for Ubuntu
kelemengabor: I'd participate 
dpm: cool
dpm: going back to what ArneGoetje was saying, also maybe people should be encouraged to assign bugs in the ubuntu-translations project to themselves
dpm: even if they can't fix them, they could take care of tracking them
dpm: and pestering the relevant devs 
adiroiban: that should be the actual solution
ArneGoetje: +1. Then we also know about who is working on which bugs
adiroiban: but I don't know if we could find the required force to drive those changes/action/work
dpm: well, we have to start somewhere  And I think it is already a big improvement to the wiki page we had before, so again, good job on starting the project!

- 19:10 -
dpm: we should start a page documenting the ubuntu-translations project
dpm: Maybe with a section under "Policies" in the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ page
dpm: on how to report translation bugs
dpm: and the workflow
 - RainCT a intrat în cameră
happyaron: dpm, +1 from me
adiroiban: ok. so basicaly we are on the right track... but we need to work harde 
adiroiban: harder
 - greg-g a ieșit din cameră
adiroiban: ok
adiroiban: I think it's enough for today
adiroiban: I will try to arrange a common ubuntu-doc and ubuntu-translators meeting
adiroiban: and see how if the collaboration between those teams is ok
dpm: we could perhaps have a short round of Q+A, if you like, or leave it here. What do you guys say?
adiroiban: or where we can improve 

- 19:17 -
 - hyperair s-a deconectat (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
 - AegisRising a ieșit din cameră
adiroiban: it looks like we don't need the q+a part
dpm: ok, sounds good to me
dpm: so guys, thanks a lot for your participation
adiroiban: thanks
dpm: see you around!
 * dpm claps
dpm: #endmeeting
MootBot: Meeting finished at 11:19.


Translations/Meetings/2009-10-01 (last edited 2009-10-01 17:49:04 by adiroiban)